Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Other Raw-Animal-Food Diets (eg:- Primal Diet/Raw Version of Weston-Price Diet etc.) => Primal Diet => Topic started by: marcuspaleo on April 05, 2015, 05:03:36 pm
-
Ive had chronic fatigue for 18 years. I think most of my problems relate to digestion, but i could be wrong, as i have so many painful and debilitating symptoms. I have a gnawing pain in my midsection that extends to my back that gets worse after eating, and based on the location, I think its probably my gallbladder, pancreas or liver. It could also be my spleen, kidneys or adrenals. I also have food allergies and feel nauseous after eating. Ive had nearly every medical test performed and nothing major has shown up. Im not overweight, I eat well (whats well!?!) and I take very good care of myself (sleep, exercise when able, environment etc). Im 34 years old.
Over the last 18 years Ive tried nearly everything to heal myself, and about 2.5 years ago I tried the paleo diet. I ate no grains, just cooked meat, fruit, nuts and some potatoes. I stuck with it for nearly 6 months and I felt absolutely terrible and have ever since. It made me so sick. I definitely have a problem eating large amounts of meat. A few months ago I tried eating raw meat and felt fine. It digested easily and was like i hadn't eaten at all. I was pretty stressed as i ate it as i was afraid i would get sick, but i wasn't, and felt good.
I just bought the book "we want to live" by Aajonis Vunderplanitz to learn more about eating raw meat but also eating specific glands. It was a great read but it didn't have anything in there about eating the raw glands of animals to heal your own corresponding glands. Id heard him talk about this in an interview and he said it was in his book, but clearly not this one.
My question is: can someone recommend a diet for my condition if it is a pancreas or gallbladder problem? Can someone tell me where i can find Aajonis's work (or other reputable sources) that discuss on eating glands to heal corresponding glands.
-
It's the gallbladder or liver. There are several liver and gallbladder cleanses out there, and some good herbs. I would try a regular raw paleo diet for a couple of months, and then do some herbs and cleanses if that doesn't work.
Apples are generally very good for this issue, as is milk thistle.
-
I had chronic fatigue for many years(13+) and I fully recovered once I went rawpalaeo. Some points:- chronic fatigue often creates or exacerbates certain allergies so, like me in the past, you may have an allergy towards raw dairy - in which case, Aajonus' raw-dairy-heavy Primal Diet is not ideal for you. I would also advise against consuming raw veggie-juice, though the occasional freshly squeezed fruit juice is fine. When I had CFS, I would experience appallingly painful stomach-aches a few minutes after eating any cooked animal food, so I was so grateful to find that raw meats did not have the same effect on me.
"High"-meat, ie raw, aged meat is a definite must for someone who has chronic fatigue syndrome:-
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/display-your-culinary-creations/high-meat-recipe-preparation-for-more-advanced-rafers/ (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/display-your-culinary-creations/high-meat-recipe-preparation-for-more-advanced-rafers/)
However, only try "high-meat" once you have gotten fully used to eating fresh, raw meats. Eating a wide variety of raw organs does seem to speed up health-recovery so it is a good idea. But make sure the meat is of high quality:- ie either raw 100% grassfed or raw wild game/raw wildcaught seafood.
Do not spend too much money on food. Always better to have small amounts of the best quality than lots of lower-grade food. One last thing:- health-recovery from serious conditions like CFS can take a long time. In my own case, I got rid of c.80% of my former health-problems within 4 months, but it took another 2 or 3 years to fully recover.
-
It's the gallbladder or liver. There are several liver and gallbladder cleanses out there, and some good herbs. I would try a regular raw paleo diet for a couple of months, and then do some herbs and cleanses if that doesn't work.
Apples are generally very good for this issue, as is milk thistle.
Hi, thanks for the advice.
You dont think its the pancreas (pancreatitis)? Also, the pain is constant - sometimes really bad, sometimes not as bad, but more than often made far worse by eating. Can a gallbladder or liver constantly ache like that? I
Ive tried nearly every supplement mans ever made including herbs such as milk thistle. It didnt help. B6, VB12, Vit C and magnesium, selenium and a few others did, but i think they just helped with deficiencies as a result of poor digestion as opposed to addressing the core issue. Ive tried lots of juicing and fasting. This definitely helps, just as eating hurts, but it never solves the problem, just halts it for awhile.
Can you please tell me the theory behind eating a standard raw paleo as opposed to focusing on eating raw gallblader or liver (or pancreas) when one of those is likely the problem?
Thanks
-
I had chronic fatigue for many years(13+) and I fully recovered once I went rawpalaeo. Some points:- chronic fatigue often creates or exacerbates certain allergies so, like me in the past, you may have an allergy towards raw dairy - in which case, Aajonus' raw-dairy-heavy Primal Diet is not ideal for you. I would also advise against consuming raw veggie-juice, though the occasional freshly squeezed fruit juice is fine. When I had CFS, I would experience appallingly painful stomach-aches a few minutes after eating any cooked animal food, so I was so grateful to find that raw meats did not have the same effect on me.
"High"-meat, ie raw, aged meat is a definite must for someone who has chronic fatigue syndrome:-
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/display-your-culinary-creations/high-meat-recipe-preparation-for-more-advanced-rafers/ (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/display-your-culinary-creations/high-meat-recipe-preparation-for-more-advanced-rafers/)
However, only try "high-meat" once you have gotten fully used to eating fresh, raw meats. Eating a wide variety of raw organs does seem to speed up health-recovery so it is a good idea. But make sure the meat is of high quality:- ie either raw 100% grassfed or raw wild game/raw wildcaught seafood.
Do not spend too much money on food. Always better to have small amounts of the best quality than lots of lower-grade food. One last thing:- health-recovery from serious conditions like CFS can take a long time. In my own case, I got rid of c.80% of my former health-problems within 4 months, but it took another 2 or 3 years to fully recover.
Hi,
Thanks. CFS can be caused my any number of things. It could be undiagnosed hypothyroidism, a parasite, a food allergy, poor pancreatic function etc. A sick or injured body thats smart will slow down, allocate energy carefully, and conserve energy making you tired to protect itself from further damage. Do you know what was the underlying cause of your cfs? Problems often cascade as times goes on, but i think my primary cause if digestive related as mentioned.
-
Hi, thanks for the advice.
You dont think its the pancreas (pancreatitis)? Also, the pain is constant - sometimes really bad, sometimes not as bad, but more than often made far worse by eating. Can a gallbladder or liver constantly ache like that? I
Ive tried nearly every supplement mans ever made including herbs such as milk thistle. It didnt help. B6, VB12, Vit C and magnesium, selenium and a few others did, but i think they just helped with deficiencies as a result of poor digestion as opposed to addressing the core issue. Ive tried lots of juicing and fasting. This definitely helps, just as eating hurts, but it never solves the problem, just halts it for awhile.
Can you please tell me the theory behind eating a standard raw paleo as opposed to focusing on eating raw gallblader or liver (or pancreas) when one of those is likely the problem?
Thanks
There are 2 reasons I suggest trying raw paleo for a couple of months first:
1. Since all the herbs and supplements didn't help, it sounds like it's probably a reaction to something in your diet, instead of a deficiency
2. Eating raw paleo is a good way to fix a lot of problems at the same time. There are other problems you probably forgot to mention that will also get better.
I'm not against you trying to eat liver first, if that's what you feel you want to do. A week or so of eating raw or lightly-cooked GRASSFED, GRASS-FINISHED liver (probably 2-4 ounces daily) will be a good experiment, if you don't change anything else about your diet.
So sure, try it. A week or so will tell you a lot.
-
Hi,
Thanks. CFS can be caused my any number of things. It could be undiagnosed hypothyroidism, a parasite, a food allergy, poor pancreatic function etc. A sick or injured body thats smart will slow down, allocate energy carefully, and conserve energy making you tired to protect itself from further damage. Do you know what was the underlying cause of your cfs? Problems often cascade as times goes on, but i think my primary cause if digestive related as mentioned.
Not sure. I think I had an awful lifesaving operation when I was 2 to get rid of some pills from my stomach. After that, I got anxiety. Then I developed a nasty reaction to dairy without realising that was the cause. Then things just got slowly worse and worse until I was 17 by which time I had developed most of the health problems I had until aged 29.
-
There are 2 reasons I suggest trying raw paleo for a couple of months first:
1. Since all the herbs and supplements didn't help, it sounds like it's probably a reaction to something in your diet, instead of a deficiency
2. Eating raw paleo is a good way to fix a lot of problems at the same time. There are other problems you probably forgot to mention that will also get better.
I'm not against you trying to eat liver first, if that's what you feel you want to do. A week or so of eating raw or lightly-cooked GRASSFED, GRASS-FINISHED liver (probably 2-4 ounces daily) will be a good experiment, if you don't change anything else about your diet.
So sure, try it. A week or so will tell you a lot.
Thanks again!
I was so sick for a long time after my cooked paleo experiment that i didnt want to eat any meat as it caused pain and made me sick. The extra cooked meat definitely caused damage. My ability to digest foods was reduced and my allergies increased. It was like it broke something inside. Im starting to eat meat again with less pain, but i prefer white meat as its so much lighter. Do u see any issues with focusing on white meat like chicken as opposed to beef/lamb etc.? I still struggle a bit with raw red meat because im still so sick.
I want to try this raw paleo diet for 2 weeks but with an emphasis on healing my liver/gallbladder/pancreas.
My shopping list is:
Raw butter
Raw cream
raw milk
--------
Raw eggs
whole raw chicken
-----
fruit
fruit juice (i love fruit!)
unheated honey
-----
raw salads (lettuce, cumcumber, avo etc)
------
raw lambs liver
raw X gallbladder (x =still have to find)
raw deer pancreas
----------
sourdough bread
potatoes (boiled)
Any tips?
-
Not sure. I think I had an awful lifesaving operation when I was 2 to get rid of some pills from my stomach. After that, I got anxiety. Then I developed a nasty reaction to dairy without realising that was the cause. Then things just got slowly worse and worse until I was 17 by which time I had developed most of the health problems I had until aged 29.
Sorry to hear that. How bad did it get? How do u feel now?
-
Sorry to hear that. How bad did it get? How do u feel now?
By the age of 29, I had health problems affecting my entire body, and felt near death. I had skin inflammation problems, broken toe-nails, constant fatigue(I would sleep 8 to 10 hours and wake up and feel as though I had only slept half an hour), I had slowed thinking, acute anxiety, mind-fog , the awful stomach-aches when I ate cooked animal foods(which was why I went raw vegan and then Fruitarian prior to going rawpaleo), nasty pains in my joints, a heart that skipped a beat every now and then, constant dizziness when I tried to stand up, loosened teeth that were about to fall out until I went rawpalaeo, constant constipation, inability to do more than 10 minutes of exercise/weightlifting at the gym without collapsing exhausted etc.etc.
These days I feel fine. I am now able to eat some cooked foods here and there without the nasty side-effects I had before, as my gut has long ago healed. I should really do 100% rawpalaeo but social occasions/inadequate food-sources etc. sometimes make that difficult. My current issue is that I want to be more "palaeo" from an exercise point-of-view and am going to the local gym to remedy that. I am also planning on eating smaller amounts of raw foods as I do not need to eat as much, really, and likely need to eat more "high-meat" as it is a very effective probiotic and healthy-gut-maintainer.
-
If your 2-week experiment does not work, cut out the raw dairy to see if that improves. Also cut out the sourdough and the potatoes and replace the raw chicken with some higher quality raw animal food. Chickens are nearly always raised on very unhealthy grain-filled diets, no matter how "organic" they may be. Unless you raise your own chickens so as to ensure that they have access to their real natural diet(ie worms and insects), they are not worth it. The raw salads are fine, but not all that useful re healing. And make sure the raw animal foods are either 100% grassfed or wild-sourced.
My previous ideas were to replace raw chicken with raw wild mallard duck. At first I found it difficult to get hold of raw 100% grassfed meat, so I instead bought lots of raw wildcaught seafood.
-
By the age of 29, I had health problems affecting my entire body, and felt near death. I had skin inflammation problems, broken toe-nails, constant fatigue(I would sleep 8 to 10 hours and wake up and feel as though I had only slept half an hour), I had slowed thinking, acute anxiety, mind-fog , the awful stomach-aches when I ate cooked animal foods(which was why I went raw vegan and then Fruitarian prior to going rawpaleo), nasty pains in my joints, a heart that skipped a beat every now and then, constant dizziness when I tried to stand up, loosened teeth that were about to fall out until I went rawpalaeo, constant constipation, inability to do more than 10 minutes of exercise/weightlifting at the gym without collapsing exhausted etc.etc.
These days I feel fine. I am now able to eat some cooked foods here and there without the nasty side-effects I had before, as my gut has long ago healed. I should really do 100% rawpalaeo but social occasions/inadequate food-sources etc. sometimes make that difficult. My current issue is that I want to be more "palaeo" from an exercise point-of-view and am going to the local gym to remedy that. I am also planning on eating smaller amounts of raw foods as I do not need to eat as much, really, and likely need to eat more "high-meat" as it is a very effective probiotic and healthy-gut-maintainer.
Thats sucks. Pretty similar to my story. Glad you are doing well now.
When u started the raw paleo did you notice an improvement immediately? Obviously you realized you could finally digest meat without pain/nausea, but when did it pick you health up a notch? days? weeks? Would you say you are completely recovered?
What does your diet look like now?
-
If your 2-week experiment does not work, cut out the raw dairy to see if that improves. Also cut out the sourdough and the potatoes and replace the raw chicken with some higher quality raw animal food. Chickens are nearly always raised on very unhealthy grain-filled diets, no matter how "organic" they may be. Unless you raise your own chickens so as to ensure that they have access to their real natural diet(ie worms and insects), they are not worth it. The raw salads are fine, but not all that useful re healing. And make sure the raw animal foods are either 100% grassfed or wild-sourced.
My previous ideas were to replace raw chicken with raw wild mallard duck. At first I found it difficult to get hold of raw 100% grassfed meat, so I instead bought lots of raw wildcaught seafood.
Thanks man. I live in Australia and have found a couple of chicken farms that look good. Im going to find out how they process them but they seem to raise them well.
Also, despite choosing family farm naturally raised organic meats, Im still a little concerned athat the meat has become contaminated during the slaughter/processing. What I normally do is eat about 30 grams and waited 48 hours. If I dont get sick, I eat that piece of meat. Am I just being paranoid?
This may sound strange but I swear its true: when I tried the cooked paleo diet for 6 months I ate a lot of beef. By the end of the 6 months, I was in the worst state of health I had ever been, and as a result struggled eating most things, but I developed an allergy to not only beef, but dairy. Its improved a lot, but im still a bit queezy with beef/dairy. For some reason cheese is ok, but milk and yogurt isnt. Raw milk is ok, but commercial milk makes me throw up. I think I overloaded and developed some sort of antibodies to it because i wasn't digesting it properly. Weird.
-
Completely recovered? Well, in all honesty, anything that could be healed was healed. I suspect, however, that decades of being so ill and under such monumental stress may have caused some long-term but minor brain-damage. Not serious in the sense of mental impairment, but let's just say that if I had never been ill in those ways, I would probably have developed a slightly better, sharper memory, marginally better reaction-speed or whatever. That's just a theory, though, maybe I am at 100%.
Like I said, the only immediate improvement was the sudden, total lack of stomach- pain after eating raw animal foods. Then I started experiencing the same symptoms again once I took up raw dairy . I felt a very tiny amount of health-improvement every day in the first 4 months after cutting out all raw dairy from my diet, but that might have been just my imagination. I only noticed a major disappearance of my symptoms after that 4 month period. After that 4 month period, my health-improvement was rather gradual and unnoticeable really, except after the occasional detoxes where I felt noticeable boosts to my health.
I will have to go into details about my rawpalaeodiet later today. I have to go to a concert soon.
-
Also, despite choosing family farm naturally raised organic meats, Im still a little concerned athat the meat has become contaminated during the slaughter/processing. What I normally do is eat about 30 grams and waited 48 hours. If I dont get sick, I eat that piece of meat. Am I just being paranoid?
Pretty much. When I first investigated RVAF diets I would force myself to eat raw, grainfed meats of the lowest quality which tasted truly foul. I still did not get food-poisoning and the like, despite that. Basically, food-poisoning is more of an issue if one eats highly processed/highly heated food(such as canned foods) and is either a baby or an old person about to die anyway.
This may sound strange but I swear its true: when I tried the cooked paleo diet for 6 months I ate a lot of beef. By the end of the 6 months, I was in the worst state of health I had ever been, and as a result struggled eating most things, but I developed an allergy to not only beef, but dairy. Its improved a lot, but im still a bit queezy with beef/dairy. For some reason cheese is ok, but milk and yogurt isnt. Raw milk is ok, but commercial milk makes me throw up. I think I overloaded and developed some sort of antibodies to it because i wasn't digesting it properly. Weird.
I strongly advise you to avoid all raw dairy if you can't handle even one type of raw dairy. It's a bad sign. You see it is possible for someone to be allergenic to a particular food but not experience any overt symptoms- however, if you continue to consume that very food you will likely experience a slowdown or a stop to your health-recovery, since the body has to then divert its resources away from healing to deal with this problematic food.
After many years of avoiding raw dairy, I have recently become able to absorb it without any overt problems. It used to be that eating raw cheese always gave me constipation while consuming raw milk caused immediate massive urination, and the like, but this does not seem to matter any more. Since CFS seems to exacerbate allergies, it may be that now my body has been healthy for years, it can now easily deal with raw dairy. However, we are talking about years being needed for adaptation.
-
My diet:-
I now live in a landlocked country where raw wildcaught seafood is always prefrozen and so expensive one buys it at at least 5 euros per 100g thereof, and often much more. So, except for the summer holidays in Italy, I rarely buy raw seafood. In Italy, I would buy raw shellfish mostly, plus raw squid and octopi and some raw fish of the cheapest variety. Unfortunately, the local fish-market in Italy is run by the Mafia, and they love hiking the cost of the food buy as much as 30 euros a kilo as soon as the summer tourist season starts in May.
I buy raw wild game from a wild meat wholesalers in the city's outskirts. I get raw wild boar and raw wild moufflon mostly. But I cannot easily get raw organs from that source. I get raw pigs' tongues from a local supermarket, plus raw pigs' liver/kidneys/brains/hearts. Animals in Austria are usually raised in mountain pastures and are not mostly intensively-farmed in the way UK and US animals usually are.
I used to practise Intermittent Fasting a lot as I had read good data about it promoting longevity, and I need to do more thereof.
I buy standard raw fruits like oranges, bananas, blueberries, strawberries and nuts like brazil nuts. I do not care about organic versions for plant foods. Organic as a label is largely meaningless, as too many agricombines have misused the term to sell very low-quality foods. Terms like "grassfed" are far more worth searching for.
And, recently, I have been buying some raw cow's/goat's/sheep's milk from a local organic supermarket, as I cannot find it anywhere else.
-
Also cut out the sourdough and the potatoes and replace the raw chicken with some higher quality raw animal food. Chickens are nearly always raised on very unhealthy grain-filled diets, no matter how "organic" they may be. Unless you raise your own chickens so as to ensure that they have access to their real natural diet(ie worms and insects), they are not worth it.
Aajonus said that a chicken's natural diet includes raw grains such as corn. I think part of the problem with grain fed animals is that they are fed to a lot of animals that can't eat them raw. For example cows and pigs need to have most grains cooked, and grain fed cows are often fed cooked GMO soy and stuff. (I think of soy as a legume more than a grain, but yeah).
I think conventional raised pigs in most of the world are the worst, as they are fed food waste from food processing plants. Things like cookies, potato chips, candy, dairy, sausage, whatever it is that for whatever reason would otherwise get thrown to the garbage, is instead fed to pigs. Or at least that's what I hear.
-
Aajonus said that a chicken's natural diet includes raw grains such as corn. I think part of the problem with grain fed animals is that they are fed to a lot of animals that can't eat them raw. For example cows and pigs need to have most grains cooked, and grain fed cows are often fed cooked GMO soy and stuff. (I think of soy as a legume more than a grain, but yeah).
Wild jungle fowl, from which chickens come from, have an extremely varied diet not the 100% grains-filled diet of most modern chicken.
-
Oh sure, I agree with that.
However, chickens are domesticated animals and have been selectively bred for thousands of generations to grow well on raw grains plus whatever insects and worms could be found in the farm (which likely would've been a lot more in the past than today, but still far less than what jungle fowl would get). Although today it would be possible to use worm composting and raising insects to increase the amount of those that your chickens would get to far more than they would've gotten in the past.
I don't think we need to match ratios perfectly to the ones that would've been experienced in paleo times. I mean take us humans for example. Eggs are paleo, but what is the likelihood that you would find them all year round and in large quantities? Chances are eggs would be a lucky find and pretty rare. Or you'd have to climb up a tree to get a few tiny eggs, which may or may not be worth it. Does that mean that eating 60 chicken eggs a week will make you sick? Well maybe, but I don't think so. Our bodies have the capacity to adapt to changing circumstances, as long as we don't go too far out from what we evolved on.
Or take your diet for another example. What is the chance that a paleolithic human would've been consuming bananas and blueberries? And I don't even mean together, I mean in their lifetimes. Wild bananas and blueberries grow in totally opposite climates and there's no way a single paleolithic human would have, at any point in their lifetime, travelled from one to the other in order to experience both. But that doesn't mean it's a bad idea to have both. Your body is quite able to adapt to the new circumstances because the foods and the nutritional profile in your diet are close enough to what our ancestors would've been eating for tens of thousands of generations.
I agree that chickens that are raised 100% on raw grain are probably not the healthiest. What the optimal percentage of grains in their diet would be, I don't know.
-
Actually, many RPDers insist on only buying locally as buying food from 1000s of miles away causes issues re nutrients or lack thereof.As regards chickens, a few thousand years of eating a less healthy diet does by no means imply adaptation to such a poorer diet, as it takes a lot longer for the body's organs etc. to switch.
I do not do well with excesses of raw eggs and some other rpders are like me. Even Aajonus admitted that raw eggs were great for energy but were useless for rebuilding/healing the body.
On a side-note, I have often noticed that even domesticated wild game species, such as wild boar, still taste way better than pigs which have been domesticated for many 1000s of years, even if the wild boar have been fed on a poor diet of mostly grains. Domestication not only makes animals stupider than their counterparts in the wild, but it ruins them in a multitude of other ways as well. That is why rewilding is such a good idea for humans.
-
About the nutrient loss, I think that would depend on the means of transport and storage.
A few thousand years worth of chicken domestication is a lot because in chickens, a generation is about 1 year from what I understand about chicken biology (which isn't much). Maybe it's more than 1 year, but it's certainly much less than the 16-20 years we think of for humans. Going through more generations means the DNA has more chances to adapt to a changing environment. And with domesticated animals, the smart human breeder can provide an additional selection pressure, looking for health in the animal as well as healthgiving properties of their meat and products (eggs, milk) when consumed by us humans. Even if you disregard the artificial selective pressure (breeding), 2500 years worth of chicken domestication would be around 2500 generations from my calculations, which would be the equivalent of how humans have been living for the past 40-50 thousand years. Still not that much when compared to 500k to 2.5 million years of proto-human evolution, but it's something. Archeologists believe the humans species in it's modern recognizable form has only existed for 100k to 200 thousand years. Chances are there's been changes to the DNA pool along the way also, just not so intense that they would be able to easily tell from fossils.
About AV and eggs, iirc he said that they're wonderful for healing, just not for rebuilding. Which is kind of weird because chicks grow on eggs and they don't need to heal much, just build. Many bodybuilders use toxic egg white protein extract as well as whey protein extract from milk to increase their muscle growth. And even though the proteins have been processed and dried, it works. I would tend to think the way it would work in nature would be the opposite. That eggs and milk would be better for building, and meat better for healing. (the way people used to place a steak on a bruise instead of ice). If I think about it, a carnivore is likely to get minor injuries while hunting. Then the meat would supply the perfect nutrients for healing. Maybe what Aajonus meant was that eggs are good for pulling and binding to toxins.
I've never had wild meat other than fish, so I can't comment on the taste. I'm sure they taste better. I would love to try some. However, we need to realize that while it might be the best for our health, it's not applicable on a mass scale. Which doesn't mean some of us can't enjoy the benefits, but we can't expect everybody to. According to calculations I've seen, the average fertile and wild land only naturally provides enough edible food for around 1 person per square mile.
-
Length of time is meaningless when one considers that giant pandas and their immediate ancestor have been eating mostly bamboo for several millions of years despite having a carnivorous digestive system. Plus, evolution via natural selection is way, way healthier for an animal than domesticated breeding by humans. For example, most current species of dogs are severely inbred and have numerous nasty genetic problems as a result.
I am certain you got it wrong re AV as I clearly recall him stating that eggs were great for energy but not for rebuilding the body. Admittedly I do not have his books any more. Perhaps someone can give a quote re this? The bodybuilders' example re artificial supplements is unfortunate since many bodybuilders have had awful health problems in the long run from all the supplements they take.
Really organised farmers can concentrate a large biomass into a small area and sustain many humans thereby. I vaguely recall one rpder who posted on rawpaleoforum about an amazing fish-farm which was basically organic, if not necessarily in name/label - up to that point, I always claimed that fish farms were ruinous to the environment but this fish-farm did not rely on wild fish being killed to sustain the farmed fish nor did the farmed fish have to rely on artificial feeds of grains etc.
-
Length of time is meaningless when one considers that giant pandas and their immediate ancestor have been eating mostly bamboo for several millions of years despite having a carnivorous digestive system.
Are the pandas healthier on fresh bamboo, or on meat?
Plus, evolution via natural selection is way, way healthier for an animal than domesticated breeding by humans. For example, most current species of dogs are severely inbred and have numerous nasty genetic problems as a result.
Are you sure this isn't from being fed garbage instead of their natural diets of raw meat? Plus the addition of vaccines, chemicals and drugs to their diet for veterinary purposes?
Some dog breeds are clearly artificially selected not for health, but for looking "cool". Those would clearly be made unhealthy.
I wasn't saying chicken is healthier to eat than wild jungle fowl would be, just that chickens may be healthier on a higher grain diet than jungle fowl would be.
I am certain you got it wrong re AV as I clearly recall him stating that eggs were great for energy but not for rebuilding the body. Admittedly I do not have his books any more. Perhaps someone can give a quote re this?
I'll try. A quick search on his two books didn't turn up anything, but I remember him talking about this somewhere.
The bodybuilders' example re artificial supplements is unfortunate since many bodybuilders have had awful health problems in the long run from all the supplements they take.
Oh I agree, I'm just saying it works for muscle growth. I'm not sure if it works better or worse than dried, processed meat protein would.
Really organised farmers can concentrate a large biomass into a small area and sustain many humans thereby. I vaguely recall one rpder who posted on rawpaleoforum about an amazing fish-farm which was basically organic, if not necessarily in name/label - up to that point, I always claimed that fish farms were ruinous to the environment but this fish-farm did not rely on wild fish being killed to sustain the farmed fish nor did the farmed fish have to rely on artificial feeds of grains etc.
It depends on how the farm is set up. It also depends on what you mean by farming being bad for the environment. If you mean that there will be less lifeforms that don't improve our health, so that there can be more that do, you're absolutely right, and that's the whole point. If you mean that the soil is drained of minerals, that can be solved by using more organic practices for fertilizing. And I believe that using ocean fish to feed an organic fish farm (like aquaponics) is a great idea. See, no matter how much manure we use for fertilizing soil, there will still be a lot of fertilizers that go down the sewer and into the ocean. We don't want to use those to fertilize our fields because most humans today are super loaded with toxicity, and so are their excretions. It's better if we allow ocean lifeforms to deal with those chemical toxins, and neutralize them or make them into less toxic substances, before we reintroduce them into our food system.
-
That last post of mine was a bit snarky, I'm sorry. I overreacted to what you said about fish farms hurting the environment.
-
Are the pandas healthier on fresh bamboo, or on meat?
I do not know, but I suspect they would do far better on raw meat than bamboo. Eating bamboo at any rate makes them sluggish and they have to select specific types of bamboo as some varieties are easier to digest than others.
Are you sure this isn't from being fed garbage instead of their natural diets of raw meat? Plus the addition of vaccines, chemicals and drugs to their diet for veterinary purposes?
Some dog breeds are clearly artificially selected not for health, but for looking "cool". Those would clearly be made unhealthy.
Dog breeds are so inbred that there is now a big movement to breed them with wolves so as to inject some healthy DNA into them. Ironically, wolves are quite inbred themselves in a way, but natural selection swiftly kills off the defective ones, plus humans usually breed dogs for all sorts of unhealthy reasons such as making their faces look like small children, thus causing difficulty breathing etc. A highly processed pet-food diet can cause a lot of further diseases to dogs but most dog species have at least some innate health problems due to their inbred nature.
I wasn't saying chicken is healthier to eat than wild jungle fowl would be, just that chickens may be healthier on a higher grain diet than jungle fowl would be.
Like I said, chickens have not had enough evolutionary time to adapt to 100% grains-filled diets. There is another aspect:- some rpders who were allergic to grains also found minor allergenic effects when eating grainfed meats or raw eggs from grainfed chickens. It is not only chickens that have to be adapted to grains, therefore, but us as well to a much lesser extent.
Oh I agree, I'm just saying it works for muscle growth. I'm not sure if it works better or worse than dried, processed meat protein would.
Arnold Schwarzenegger once admitted that during his Austrian Army days, the canteen provided him with meat that was twice as overcooked as it should have been, so that he had to work twice as hard to get rid of the flab and add on enough muscle, as he did before.
It depends on how the farm is set up. It also depends on what you mean by farming being bad for the environment. If you mean that there will be less lifeforms that don't improve our health, so that there can be more that do, you're absolutely right, and that's the whole point. If you mean that the soil is drained of minerals, that can be solved by using more organic practices for fertilizing. And I believe that using ocean fish to feed an organic fish farm (like aquaponics) is a great idea. See, no matter how much manure we use for fertilizing soil, there will still be a lot of fertilizers that go down the sewer and into the ocean. We don't want to use those to fertilize our fields because most humans today are super loaded with toxicity, and so are their excretions. It's better if we allow ocean lifeforms to deal with those chemical toxins, and neutralize them or make them into less toxic substances, before we reintroduce them into our food system.
It is a very bad idea indeed to feed farmed fish with wild fish. This just depletes the environment. The farm I was talking about set up a huge pond,/minor lake in which smaller fish ate plants in the middle, with larger fish on the outskirts which fed on the smaller fish but were somewhat hindered by the plants. So it was self-sustaining.
-
I'll try. A quick search on his two books didn't turn up anything, but I remember him talking about this somewhere.
Found it:
https://youtu.be/jZoCrQTrFUM?t=7m2s
Also, in the Recipe book he says "The protein in eggs is not utilized for cellular reproduction. They are utilized for regeneration and maintenance and cannot be substituted for meat except occasionally."
-
I do not know, but I suspect they would do far better on raw meat than bamboo. Eating bamboo at any rate makes them sluggish and they have to select specific types of bamboo as some varieties are easier to digest than others.
We should open a zoo then. Our healthy, energetic pandas who eat meat will be a worldwide attraction.
Dog breeds are so inbred that there is now a big movement to breed them with wolves so as to inject some healthy DNA into them. Ironically, wolves are quite inbred themselves in a way, but natural selection swiftly kills off the defective ones, plus humans usually breed dogs for all sorts of unhealthy reasons such as making their faces look like small children, thus causing difficulty breathing etc. A highly processed pet-food diet can cause a lot of further diseases to dogs but most dog species have at least some innate health problems due to their inbred nature.
I'm not sure I believe that inbreeding can be such a huge problem unless it's extreme. Paleolithic humans lived in H-G tribes with around 40 members each, and while there was some breeding with outsiders when they conquered a neighboring tribe and killed all the men, there was still a lot of inbreeding.
Up until recently, dogs were only bred for materially productive purposes, and not simply companionship or aesthetics. Dogs were bred to be shephers/herders, to be a hunting aid for hunting various kinds of prey (different dog breeds were better for hunting different prey), to provide home defense, to act as an alarm in case of intruders, to sniff and find lost objects or people (or hidden animals), etc.
Like I said, chickens have not had enough evolutionary time to adapt to 100% grains-filled diets. There is another aspect:- some rpders who were allergic to grains also found minor allergenic effects when eating grainfed meats or raw eggs from grainfed chickens. It is not only chickens that have to be adapted to grains, therefore, but us as well to a much lesser extent.
Yeah, I agree that raising chickens on 100% grains is probably not ideal. But they weren't being fed 100% grain over the past 2500 years. They would've had access to worms and insects up until 50 years ago or so.
e. It is a very bad idea indeed to feed farmed fish with wild fish. This just depletes the environment. The farm I was talking about set up a huge pond,/minor lake in which smaller fish ate plants in the middle, with larger fish on the outskirts which fed on the smaller fish but were somewhat hindered by the plants. So it was self-sustaining.
It's not self-sustaining. Minerals are drained from the pond every time you take a fish out. If you're not putting anything back in, all those minerals are going down the sewer and into the ocean. If you catch wild fish from the ocean and feed it to your farmed fish, you can begin to restore the balance (though it would take gigantic amounts of wild fish to restore it completely, and probably it can never be done on a mass scale for all depleted fields on land, but for now, it's something.)
-
I'm not sure I believe that inbreeding can be such a huge problem unless it's extreme. Paleolithic humans lived in H-G tribes with around 40 members each, and while there was some breeding with outsiders when they conquered a neighboring tribe and killed all the men, there was still a lot of inbreeding.
Inbreeding is seriously harmful to both dogs and humans.Palaeo humans appear to have lived in tribes numbering up to several hundred people and were undoubtedly very inbred BUT, due to natural selection, all defectives would have been weeded out, thus making inbreeding much less harmful. By contrast, inbreeding of modern humans and modern dogs is extremely bad as even dogs and humans wholly unfit to breed are encouraged to breed as much as possible. Look at Ashkenazi Jews, the Amish, not to mention Icelandic people, most of the Middle-East up to Pakistan and India. Once you have first cousins etc. marrying routinely for many generations in any region, you get all sorts of interesting defects appearing and in much greater quantity than with non-inbred types. Then there is the celebrated Habsburg Lip etc. and dogs have been bred to be lap-dogs with no useful function since thousands of years ago(eg:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shih_Tzu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shih_Tzu)
Yeah, I agree that raising chickens on 100% grains is probably not ideal. But they weren't being fed 100% grain over the past 2500 years. They would've had access to worms and insects up until 50 years ago or so.
My past experience is that no matter how well-fed a domesticated animal is, the wild varieties always have access to far superior nutrition which makes the meat taste way better all the time - plus, since the wild varieties do far more exercise, this adds a further extra tangy taste to their flesh, unlike with domesticated varieties. I find for example raw wild mallard duck to taste way better than the raw goose I got from semi-grainfed/otherwise pastured sources.
It's not self-sustaining. Minerals are drained from the pond every time you take a fish out. If you're not putting anything back in, all those minerals are going down the sewer and into the ocean. If you catch wild fish from the ocean and feed it to your farmed fish, you can begin to restore the balance (though it would take gigantic amounts of wild fish to restore it completely, and probably it can never be done on a mass scale for all depleted fields on land, but for now, it's something.)
I am sure the fish-farmer in question routinely added in mineral-rich compounds and the like. Whatever the case, importing wild fish is ridiculous - one might as well overfish the oceans and eat the remaining wildcaught seafood rather than waste time setting up a fish-farm wherein the domesticated fish feed on their wildcaught counterparts.
-
Found it:
youtu.be/jZoCrQTrFUM?t=7m2s
Also, in the Recipe book he says "The protein in eggs is not utilized for cellular reproduction. They are utilized for regeneration and maintenance and cannot be substituted for meat except occasionally."
Thanks. So for someone like me who has an isolated problem that requires healing- be it my liver, gallbladder or pancreas, I should focus on eating meats to rebuild, or is eating the actual raw gland far more beneficial?
-
I don't know. I don't think you can go wrong either way.
This may help.
https://youtu.be/wKuuLipeg8I?t=55m42s
He did say this in his first book: "I don’t recommend eating glandular tissue and certain organs (that is, pancreas, thyroid, adrenals, testes, ovaries, liver, kidney, brain, etc.) and bone marrow unless they are from organically grown animals raised without injections and without deworming medication." (p 145)
-
I don't know. I don't think you can go wrong either way.
This may help.
youtu.be/wKuuLipeg8I?t=55m42s
He did say this in his first book: "I don’t recommend eating glandular tissue and certain organs (that is, pancreas, thyroid, adrenals, testes, ovaries, liver, kidney, brain, etc.) and bone marrow unless they are from organically grown animals raised without injections and without deworming medication." (p 145)
Thanks again. Yes, thats the video that prompted me to buy his book.
I wish someone knew if this actually worked (eating glands heals the humans corresponding glands) ? Im nearly positive its my liver or gallbladder because of where it hurts.
Because of my digestive problems I just dont feel like eating any meat at all and really have to force myself to eat it. Certainly raw meat is more comfortable than cooked, but no meat (just fruit, juice and nuts) is even more comfortable. Of course, if i knew for a fact it would heal me, id eat it with a grin, but im just not sure.
Or maybe I need more raw fats to ease the pain and help heal?
-
I've heard about eating the particular part of the animal which you have a problem with, to heal that part of your body. I think it's an ancient superstituous belief that was common among indigenous people. It may be true, I don't know. Or maybe it was a way to get people to eat a wider variety of animal parts, which would probably be healthy for them anyway.
-
I've heard about eating the particular part of the animal which you have a problem with, to heal that part of your body. I think it's an ancient superstituous belief that was common among indigenous people. It may be true, I don't know. Or maybe it was a way to get people to eat a wider variety of animal parts, which would probably be healthy for them anyway.
There's plenty of good science behind it. And common sense.
-
There's plenty of good science behind it. And common sense.
Really not.
My family doctor once told me plant-based protein powder* would give me the sexual strength of a plant. So I thought, "Wait a minute: then where do bulls get their sexual strength from exactly?!"
Their was a thread on this forum about eating adult male animals to boost testosterone or something. The thing is, virile adult males are rarely the ones who get killed in a hunt. It's a lot more often the little ones, the sick, the injured, females, or elders. Makes you wonder how predators keep high testosterone levels, if they rarely get to eat testosterone-rich preys.
I think it's a lot more belief or superstition than it is reality.
* It was an experiment, okay? I was young and care free back then...
-
Really not.
My family doctor once told me plant-based protein powder* would give me the sexual strength of a plant. So I thought, "Wait a minute: then where do bulls get their sexual strength from exactly?!"
Their was a thread on this forum about eating adult male animals to boost testosterone or something. The thing is, virile adult males are rarely the ones who get killed in a hunt. It's a lot more often the little ones, the sick, the injured, females, or elders. Makes you wonder how predators keep high testosterone levels, if they rarely get to eat testosterone-rich preys.
I think it's a lot more belief or superstition than it is reality.
* It was an experiment, okay? I was young and care free back then...
Kindly shut up if you don't know what you're talking about. I'm getting tired of your arrogant attitude.
-
See, that's one problem I have with faceless, voiceless virtual interactions. You, or the person you're speaking to cannot see how the other is reacting, and what are their emotions when they are typing down.
I thought you were the one who was being arrogant, saying "it's common sense" as if people who thought differently weren't making use of it, or "sense" in a general way. But maybe that wasn't what you meant at all.
I'm sad that's the way I appear to you, and maybe others...
-
One thing we all have to bear in mind is that, usually, the only thing we have in common is that we are doing some relatively unique variation of a RVAF diet. Other than that, we have, mostly, widely differing views as regards politics, spirituality, philosophy, lifestyle, widely different personalities etc.etc. That is actually a forum strength since parroting the same line on all possible topics etc., would not make people take us seriously.
-
The nutrients that are needed to maintain a specific organ or gland tend to be concentrated in that organ or gland. That's why eating the thyroid/liver/etc. of a specific animal also helps YOUR thyroid/liver/etc.. THAT'S what I meant by common sense.
-
The nutrients that are needed to maintain a specific organ or gland tend to be concentrated in that organ or gland. That's why eating the thyroid/liver/etc. of a specific animal also helps YOUR thyroid/liver/etc.. THAT'S what I meant by common sense.
I agree its common sense (logical) , for the simple reason you outline here: you can tell from the distinct difference in taste when you eat, for example, a lamb chop vs a lamb kidney, that they have a starkly different nutrient composition. So assuming the theory is right, and I believe it probably is, then I think i need to focus in on eating those particular parts of the animal that will help me heal my damaged parts as I believe eating just raw muscle meat wont completely help me as it doesn't provide all the nutrients i need to heal. Our ancestors didn't eat just the muscle meat, they ate the entire animal, and probably preferred the organs. In fact, I think eating raw organs with some muscle meat is probably the purest human diet of all. Its just so hard for me to get these parts as they are illegal to sell in australia and I need to go hunting to get them which costs a lot of money and energy - both of which i am in short supply.
What do you think of that theory that i wont heal properly without it?
An interesting article:
Many traditional cultures and their medicine men—including Native Americans—believe that eating the organs from a healthy animal supports the organs of the eater.
For example, a traditional way of treating a person with a weak heart was to feed the person the heart of a healthy animal. Similarly, eating the brains of a healthy animal was believed to support clear thinking, and animal kidneys were fed to people suffering from urinary maladies.
There are countless reports about the success of these types of traditional practices. We can thank Dr. Weston A. Price for an enormous body of research about the health benefits of traditional diets.
articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/12/30/eating-organ-meats.aspx
-
I concur with A.V. on the importance of eating the glands and organs , especially for people who have glandular or organ issues.
Really not.
My family doctor once told me plant-based protein powder* would give me the sexual strength of a plant. So I thought, "Wait a minute: then where do bulls get their sexual strength from exactly?!"
Their was a thread on this forum about eating adult male animals to boost testosterone or something. The thing is, virile adult males are rarely the ones who get killed in a hunt. It's a lot more often the little ones, the sick, the injured, females, or elders. Makes you wonder how predators keep high testosterone levels, if they rarely get to eat testosterone-rich preys.
I think it's a lot more belief or superstition than it is reality.
* It was an experiment, okay? I was young and care free back then...
Bulls get thier sexuall energy and strength from a series of very complex biological phenomenon, in which they are able to cultivate large amounts of nutrient rich bacteria in their guts to feed off of. The nutrients contained in the microscopic organelles of trillions of microbes is what gives the bull its vitality.
Humans and other predatory and omnivorous animals , do not have the digestive system which would be necessary to derive all the complex micronutrients and hormonal proto nutrient factors from chewed Cud. We must get these rejuvenative life supporting nutrients directly from other living animals in order to thrive.
We are extremely adaptable and the degree by which humans can subsist without consuming raw, whole, unprocessed foods is remarkable, but for people who have specific "organ" or "glandular" insufficiency, damage , or dysfunction it would be of great benefit for them to nourish their damaged organ and glandular systems with the nutrients contained in the healthy glands and organs of pure and well nourished animals. "This is common sense"
It is not true that hunters only single out the young and the weak, the persistence hunters would single out the larger and more powerful males, because although they were stronger, they often lack stamina, and once we mastered the art of the hunt our ancestors were often able to run down any animal they wanted to regardless of its strength. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o)
Nor is it true that younger, weaker, older, or female animals do not also provide the raw nutrient materials by which we can build our own healthy hormonal balance upon. It is not necessarily the direct hormonal transference which is of the greatest benefit, but instead it is the building block nutrients which are contained in the specific organs and glands which are responsible for nourishing ones vitality.
-
I agree its common sense (logical) , for the simple reason you outline here: you can tell from the distinct difference in taste when you eat, for example, a lamb chop vs a lamb kidney, that they have a starkly different nutrient composition. So assuming the theory is right, and I believe it probably is, then I think i need to focus in on eating those particular parts of the animal that will help me heal my damaged parts as I believe eating just raw muscle meat wont completely help me as it doesn't provide all the nutrients i need to heal. Our ancestors didn't eat just the muscle meat, they ate the entire animal, and probably preferred the organs. In fact, I think eating raw organs with some muscle meat is probably the purest human diet of all. Its just so hard for me to get these parts as they are illegal to sell in australia and I need to go hunting to get them which costs a lot of money and energy - both of which i am in short supply.
What do you think of that theory that i wont heal properly without it?
An interesting article:
Many traditional cultures and their medicine men—including Native Americans—believe that eating the organs from a healthy animal supports the organs of the eater.
For example, a traditional way of treating a person with a weak heart was to feed the person the heart of a healthy animal. Similarly, eating the brains of a healthy animal was believed to support clear thinking, and animal kidneys were fed to people suffering from urinary maladies.
There are countless reports about the success of these types of traditional practices. We can thank Dr. Weston A. Price for an enormous body of research about the health benefits of traditional diets.
articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/12/30/eating-organ-meats.aspx
if you can't get organs, you may need to use seafoods to fully heal, especially fish eggs and shellfish.
-
if you can't get organs, you may need to use seafoods to fully heal, especially fish eggs and shellfish.
why would seafood help if my gallbladder requires specific gallbladder nutrients? Or do you mean eat the organs from seafood (gallbladder etc) because its easier to get?
-
I concur with A.V. on the importance of eating the glands and organs , especially for people who have glandular or organ issues.
Thanks. Can you provide me any links or sources in which i can find his specific recommendations on this issue?
-
Kindly shut up if you don't know what you're talking about. I'm getting tired of your arrogant attitude.
What JK wrote is absolutely logical and I can't see anything wrong or arrogant in his post . Can't you understand the very basic logic of his argument?
-
Its just so hard for me to get these parts as they are illegal to sell in australia and I need to go hunting to get them which costs a lot of money and energy - both of which i am in short supply.
That's crazy that organ meats are illegal in Australia. Although it's a crazy world we live in. I just didn't expect that.
-
It is not true that hunters only single out the young and the weak, the persistence hunters would single out the larger and more powerful males, because although they were stronger, they often lack stamina, and once we mastered the art of the hunt our ancestors were often able to run down any animal they wanted to regardless of its strength.
Yeah, however I don't think it was most humans that hunted like that. Africans are built for stamina on the hunt, which is why they always win running competitions. Europeans are not built for stamina, but a quick burst of power, more like a lion (or perhaps more appropriately, a sabertooth). Which is why they always win weightlifting competitions. Asians are built for cunning, which is why they always win at video games, table tennis and other competitions that require super fast eye to hand coordinations (if there was a competition to spear fish in a river or pond, or catch them with your hands, they'd always win). I'm generalizing, and everybody has all these skills to varying extents, but you get the idea.
-
That's crazy that organ meats are illegal in Australia. Although it's a crazy world we live in. I just didn't expect that.
Not all organ meats, just certain cuts. Liver, kidney and brain are accessible as is the occasional pancreas, but the others cuts are either illegal or impossible to get. Its even harder to get organic, pasture raised cuts. Im seriously going to have to go hunting to get them. Its crazy. I even posted on a hunting forum that i would buy these cuts off hunters but they were all spooked by the laws
-
If you get in touch with one of the hunters or someone else who has access to them (small slaughterhouse? small farm?), and maybe buy other products from them so that they know you as a good customer, and then ask if they would sell you those under the table, they might. It's not like selling drugs anyway, the penalty can't be that bad if they get caught. And maybe you can offer to sign a release for them. Or do something like what they do in parts of the US for illegal raw milk, where the clients buy "shares" in a cows' milk production, and that way they get around the ban.
Maybe offer to work for free at the slaughering/butchering process.
Or tell them it's for a science project and it needs to be fresh and from a healthy animal.
Or tell them it's to feed your cats/dogs. Or pandas!!
-
If you get in touch with one of the hunters or someone else who has access to them (small slaughterhouse? small farm?), and maybe buy other products from them so that they know you as a good customer, and then ask if they would sell you those under the table, they might. It's not like selling drugs anyway, the penalty can't be that bad if they get caught. And maybe you can offer to sign a release for them. Or do something like what they do in parts of the US for illegal raw milk, where the clients buy "shares" in a cows' milk production, and that way they get around the ban.
Maybe offer to work for free at the slaughering/butchering process.
Or tell them it's for a science project and it needs to be fresh and from a healthy animal.
Or tell them it's to feed your cats/dogs.
Thanks man. Ha, yes, ive already thought of all of that (aside from working at the slaughterhouse). I even tried the science project angle with one distributor. No shit. I have one more lead that i willl call tomorrow. I told him that ill buy a $100 lamp chop off him if "i can go through his bins and pick up some offal for my pets. " I told him i would drive the 3 hours to his farm to get it. That was a week ago. Havent heard anything back. Its just not worth it for them and tbh, i think they think im weird.
-
In the UK, I was lied to often by people at farmers' markets who insisted to me that obtaining certain organs such as the brain was illegal. I then duly found that I could have gotten raw brain from certain sources, I just needed to ask. Another problem is this:- due to odious, draconian EU laws, UK farmers are forced to pay for one UK government inspector and one EU-appointed inspector(usually a Spanish veterinarian for some reason) to inspect each animal carcass. This costs a lot per hour, so it is not in their interests to have these inspectors check the organ-meats as well which are way too cheap, anyway, so do not bring sufficient profit.So many organs get thrown away into the rubbish or fed to other domesticated animals like pigs.
What I am saying is that unless there are indeed very strict Australian laws against selling certain organs, you might well find exceptions if you are willing to spend enough time searching.
-
In the UK, I was lied to often by people at farmers' markets who insisted to me that obtaining certain organs such as the brain was illegal. I then duly found that I could have gotten raw brain from certain sources, I just needed to ask. Another problem is this:- due to odious, draconian EU laws, UK farmers are forced to pay for one UK government inspector and one EU-appointed inspector(usually a Spanish veterinarian for some reason) to inspect each animal carcass. This costs a lot per hour, so it is not in their interests to have these inspectors check the organ-meats as well which are way too cheap, anyway, so do not bring sufficient profit.So many organs get thrown away into the rubbish or fed to other domesticated animals like pigs.
What I am saying is that unless there are indeed very strict Australian laws against selling certain organs, you might well find exceptions if you are willing to spend enough time searching.
Thanks for your help man. Really appreciate it.
I actually contacted Foodsafe qld, which is the state body which regulates these matters. I spoke to a doctor there and told him what i wanted and why, and he told me which parts were illegal and which weren't. Between the cuts that are illegal and the others that are discarded because its not worthwhile keeping like you said, its near impossible to obtain. One farm said they would save the adrenals for me which sounded great, and then the emailed me back and said they have 5-6 adrenal glands but i have to buy $100 worth of cuts plus pick it up on the other side of town early in the morning. The others just say sorry they cant or its illegal. Ive seriously contacted 20+ farms, butchers, distributors, organic family farms, abattoirs etc.There are heaps of kangaroos around where i live and many get hit by cars and are lying dead on the side of the road. Im seriously considering hitting one myself and helping myself to some fresh kangaroo offal. lol
But can you also comment on my theory that possibly I need to access these organs to heal properly because only they provide exactly what i need; Not the muscle meat. Not the dairy. Not the fat etc.?
-
All these organs by definition contain trace elements which are found only in much smaller amounts in raw muscle-meats. For example, raw heart contains coenzyme q10, which is essential for proper functioning of one's heart etc. Even raw meat contains vitamin C. One of the many reasons why one must not eat cooked meat is that so many trace elements of vital nutrients get wiped out by the slightest amount of cooking.
I would recommend eating some raw muscle-meat(grassfed or wild) as well. If you are by the sea, raw seafood will be dirt-cheap, in which case , keep on experimenting until you find the right type of small, wildcaught fish which you can just pop whole into your mouth.That way, you get all the fish's organs without needing to ask local farmers if they are willing to sell raw organs.
-
What JK wrote is absolutely logical and I can't see anything wrong or arrogant in his post . Can't you understand the very basic logic of his argument?
I don't have time for attitude problems. Ignorance should be accompanied by humility.
-
IMO eating other animal's healthy organs that corresponds to your own defective organs is just a shortcut to getting the appropriate nutrients (then again, I'd ask for something solid backing up this belief), but you probably can get as good results with other foods that contains these same necessary nutrients.
Say you want to heal your teeth. I doubt eating other animal's healthy teeth is the best and only way to do it. There's probably more digests food out there that can give you the same necessary building blocks.
Bulls get their sexual energy and strength from a series of very complex biological phenomenon, in which they are able to cultivate large amounts of nutrient rich bacteria in their guts to feed off of. The nutrients contained in the microscopic organelles of trillions of microbes is what gives the bull its vitality.
All right, then where do plants get their sexual energy from? Minerals don't have sexual organs, neither does the sun's rays, which are very basically the only things a plant consumes.
What JK wrote is absolutely logical and I can't see anything wrong or arrogant in his post . Can't you understand the very basic logic of his argument?
Yeah for a moment I forgot I was talking to CK, so a burst of anger from his behalf wasn't something I should not have expected.
-
I don't have time for attitude problems.
Yeah, me neither.
-
All these organs by definition contain trace elements which are found only in much smaller amounts in raw muscle-meats. For example, raw heart contains coenzyme q10, which is essential for proper functioning of one's heart etc. Even raw meat contains vitamin C. One of the many reasons why one must not eat cooked meat is that so many trace elements of vital nutrients get wiped out by the slightest amount of cooking.
I would recommend eating some raw muscle-meat(grassfed or wild) as well. If you are by the sea, raw seafood will be dirt-cheap, in which case , keep on experimenting until you find the right type of small, wildcaught fish which you can just pop whole into your mouth.That way, you get all the fish's organs without needing to ask local farmers if they are willing to sell raw organs.
Oh yes, i will eat muscle meat as well. I just want my main focus to be on healing whatever is wrong with my organ(s). I actually have a plate of raw chicken breast in front of me right now that im about to eat.
I remember reading something about how some natives ate the adrenal glands of animals because it contained all the vitamin c. Again, this is a case that supports the theory that each piece of the animal may be required.
-
IMO eating other animal's healthy organs that corresponds to your own defective organs is just a shortcut to getting the appropriate nutrients (then again, I'd ask for something solid backing up this belief), but you probably can get as good results with other foods that contains these same necessary nutrients.
Say you want to heal your teeth. I doubt eating other animal's healthy teeth is the best and only way to do it. There's probably more digests food out there that can give you the same necessary building blocks.
All right, then where do plants get their sexual energy from? Minerals don't have sexual organs, neither does the sun's rays, which are very basically the only things a plant consumes.
Yeah for a moment I forgot I was talking to CK, so a burst of anger from his behalf wasn't something I should not have expected.
Thanks for your contributions man. I really appreciate it. I dont think healing teeth by eating teeth is quite the same same thing. I dont know, perhaps grinding them up or boiling them extracts nutrients that support teeth. Certainly weston a price and others proved that eating raw fat supported healthy teeth due to "factor x", and that muscle meat did not achieve the same result.
-
This is an interesting article:
"Throughout history peoples have used glandular nutritional therapy as a natural supplement. Usually they didn't know it was glandular therapy, but they knew that ingesting organs and glands from animals or fish was good for the health and for preventing or treating specific ailments. They ate the liver, kidneys, heart, brain, eyes, pancreas, digestive tract walls, adrenal glands, thyroid glands, thymus gland, bone and bone marrow, and similar portions. Such animal tissues are concentrated sources of nutrients and specific tissues are especially supportive to their parallel tissues in the human body."
"Volumes of empirical evidence from thousands of clinicians as well as testimonials in the historical literature support the belief in the effectiveness of raw glandular preparations. However, these are usually considered "merely anecdotal." Since the early 1970s, though, scientific evidence has been accumulating which confirms the efficacy of the supplements.
allaboutnutritionalhealing.com/glandularsupplements"
-
Hey Marcus, if you have no other option than to hunt your own animals, might as well do it with style ;)
http://tinyurl.com/lqmw9ma (http://tinyurl.com/lqmw9ma)
He's a fellow Australian too!
-
Yeah, me neither.
I'm not suddenly going to change, so if you can't deal with me, you're in the wrong place.
-
I think it's rather you who shouldn't be a moderator because of your habit to threaten or ban gentle and intelligent contributors without even asking the consent of the other mods.
-
I think it's rather you who shouldn't be a moderator because of your habit to threaten or ban gentle and intelligent contributors without even asking the consent of the other mods.
Whatever. Feeling grumpy? LOL
-
why would seafood help if my gallbladder requires specific gallbladder nutrients? Or do you mean eat the organs from seafood (gallbladder etc) because its easier to get?
Shellfish, especially fatty shellfish, are extremely rich in nutrition. They contain all the needed elements and compounds for life and reproduction in one small easy-to-eat package.
In addition, since they live in the ocean, they have the richest source of minerals to draw from, all around them.
-
I think it's rather you who shouldn't be a moderator because of your habit to threaten or ban gentle and intelligent contributors without even asking the consent of the other mods.
I agree with Iguana, I think we should be more welcoming. But as you know, I am that other extreme of moderating.
-
I agree with Iguana, I think we should be more welcoming. But as you know, I am that other extreme of moderating.
I ask that members display either humility or knowledge. is that unrealistic?
-
Also, and i dont want to get too distracted from the topic of whether "like heals like", but im interested in knowing the importance of raw animal fat. Should it be the main source of energy? Im an athletic 5'11 200 pounds so how much should i be eating? Ive been eating raw butter for a few days and its been great, but if i have liver and gallbladder problems, wouldnt the fat ive been eating over the last few years (prior to the digestable raw butter) have been underutilized and/or undigested due to bile problems?
-
I ask that members display either humility or knowledge. is that unrealistic?
Be humble and knowledgeable yourself first, like a very wise Greek philosopher named Socrates who’s is quoted as saying « I know that I know nothing »! ;)
-
Many RPDers swear by (healthy grassfed or wild) fat. Not 100% sure re this. I am on a raw omnivore diet, which is RLC, but often strays into RVLC. When on RVLC, I am a bit more concerned re taking in raw animal fat.
-
Could we drop this interpersonal conflict, please? It's silly, and besides all of us(including myself) are guilty of over-reacting at one stage or another.
-
Be humble and knowledgeable yourself first, like a very wise Greek philosopher named Socrates who’s is quoted as saying « I know that I know nothing »! ;)
Brilliant quote.
-
Many RPDers swear by (healthy grassfed or wild) fat. Not 100% sure re this. I am on a raw omnivore diet, which is RLC, but often strays into RVLC. When on RVLC, I am a bit more concerned re taking in raw animal fat.
Why do they sear by it? How do they eat it? How much?
What is RLC and RVLC?
-
RLC= Raw, low-carb.
RVLC=Raw, very low-carb.
Everyone is different as regards a raw, palaeolithic diet, so everyone eats different amounts of different nutrients/foods, according to their own size, needs, health etc. That is what makes us different from other diets. We acknowledge the fact that there is an instinct that goes with being raw in the long-term which gets us to eat what we as individuals need. In other words, it is a really good idea to experiment constantly to find out what foods we really need right now. A tiny example:- I used to love raw cod at the beginning of my rawpalaoediet, but, after c.6 months, I hated the taste of it from then on.
There is also the issue of location and food-supply sources. For example, CK has access to lots and lots of raw fish roe and GS has access to a much wider variety of raw fruits compared to most other RPDers. I personally only have access to very low quality but very expensive raw (prefrozen) seafood, these days, but have excellent access to raw wild game muscle-meat.
-
Also, and i dont want to get too distracted from the topic of whether "like heals like", but im interested in knowing the importance of raw animal fat. Should it be the main source of energy? Im an athletic 5'11 200 pounds so how much should i be eating? Ive been eating raw butter for a few days and its been great, but if i have liver and gallbladder problems, wouldnt the fat ive been eating over the last few years (prior to the digestable raw butter) have been underutilized and/or undigested due to bile problems?
If the fat's not getting digested, then you'll experience bad symptoms, especially if you're eating a lot of it.
-
IMO eating other animal's healthy organs that corresponds to your own defective organs is just a shortcut to getting the appropriate nutrients (then again, I'd ask for something solid backing up this belief), but you probably can get as good results with other foods that contains these same necessary nutrients.
Say you want to heal your teeth. I doubt eating other animal's healthy teeth is the best and only way to do it. There's probably more digests food out there that can give you the same necessary building blocks.
All right, then where do plants get their sexual energy from? Minerals don't have sexual organs, neither does the sun's rays, which are very basically the only things a plant consumes.
Yeah for a moment I forgot I was talking to CK, so a burst of anger from his behalf wasn't something I should not have expected.
I will attempt to answer your apples to oranges logic puzzles, because you do seem to have some valid questions which would benefit the forum to be thoughtfully explained.
People with poor teeth don't need to eat teeth, but the nutrients which build up the gum and nerve tissues which provide the foundation for healthy teeth can be obtained by eating all parts of the animal. Tooth decay is more than just a surface level issue, and the health of the gums, mineral balance of the blood, bacterial balance of the gut, and a plethora of other factors all play a roll. When thinking and eating wholistically its important to not be caught up in limited single dimensional cause and effect dichotome centric pseudo-logic
First of all I am not advocating any shortcuts to good health.... our ancestors have been nourishing themselves from the organs and glands of animals since the beginning of our evolution, the proof is in the health of indigenous peoples who eat the whole animal. The burden of proof should be put on those who claim that modern man has an equally optimal and viable alternative to the nutritional practices of our hunter gatherer ancestors?
What foods do you suggest to be just as good at helping heal and purify a damaged and polluted body as eating the entire animal?
Have you for any period of time eaten all the organs.... the stomach, glands, brains, blood, liver, etc to see for yourself if there is any benefit over the other hypothetical alternatives?
I never claimed anything about plants sexuall energy, I believe that sexual energy is just an extension of ones overall vitality, and the elements that promote health and sexually vitality in plants, can be utilized by animals whom eat those plants....and vise versa....Plants do indeed nourish themselves from more than just the sun and minerals..... the are extremely dependant on excrement and decayed body of animal organisms. The bacteria, fungus, excrement, decayed flesh all mix within the soil substrate to give plants nourishment. We feed off of each others strength as well as suffer from each others weaknesses, and in an environmental system those who thrive develop close synergistic ties to the other organisms they depend on for nourishment. Animals that can best utilize the nutrients available are the ones with the best chances of surthival, and our ancestors learned how to utilize a wide variety of nutrient dense foods... during our accent into humanity we became who we are by cracking open the bones and eating the marrow, brains, and organs of land animals, as well as eating of the entire body of water based animals.
Life is a cyclical system which operates best on a holistic basis, and frankly it is absurd for people to only pick out the muscle meats of food animals and assume that any nutrients contained in the organs can be equally obtained by some other methods. I understand that many people are brainwashed into have an aversion to the carnal nature involved in eating the entire animal, and prefer to have neatly cut pieces of muscle tissue put on a golden platter.... but that is the kind of mindset that I and many others are speaking out against.
-
Don't get me wrong,I have absolutely nothing against glands and offals. There is literally no food out there I would never eat out of a moral basis. Except milk that is not still in the udder of the cow I just killed ;) the exception to the rule...
All I'm saying is that most minerals and nutrients found in some specific organ can certainly be found in variating amounts in other organs. Am I not right? So if you have absolutely no way of getting hold of your desired organ: 1) Move out to another area and 2) see if your attraction to other foods does not already deal with the issue.
Eating small creatures like seafood or insects is a good idea too because, when edible as a whole, you get every type of organ you may need.
-
Great post Sabertooth. The more Ive thought about and researched it, particularly in light of my understanding of history and evolution, Im convinced that to obtain optimal health you must occasionally eat the whole animal, especially if you have a health problem that requires specific nutrients from specific glands. Its just a theory, but if i can just get hold of a whole animal I will eat all of it raw for a few months to see if i heal and let you guys know. I have a promising lead now: A farmer has told me to get back to him on friday and he sounds keen to help.
All I'm saying is that most minerals and nutrients found in some specific organ can certainly be found in variating amounts in other organs. Right? So if you have absolutely no way of getting hold of your desired organ: 1) Move out to another area and 2) see if your attraction to other foods does not already deal with the issue.
Eating small creatures like seafood or insects is a good idea too because, when edible as a whole, you get every type of organ you may need.
You ask "most minerals and nutrients found in some specific organ can certainly be found in variating amounts in other organs" - the key here is whether it is a beneficial amount. The adrenal gland is eaten for its vit c content. No other gland can provide this at the quantity required for survival (from my understanding). Chicken breast has absolutely no vitamin c, so chicken breast would be useless to assist me in a problem that required vit c.
" Weston Price visited there and because he told them to stay on their health maintaining high fat diet they told him how they prevented the disease the white man called scurvy. Everytime they killed an animal they removed the adrenal gland and cut a slice for every man, woman and child in the village and ate it raw. (Eskimo means eater of raw meat and, as Uffe knows, I picked up the nick name Puckick working in Alaska during college). It is now know the adrenal gland has the highest concentration of vitamin C in the body. Outsiders went there, were kindly offered the raw adrenal slice, refused, and got scurvy toward the end of the long winter."
thinksteroids.com/community/threads/eating-raw-liver-and-raw-adrenal-gland.134306120/
Oh, and yes, i will try and get some fish and eat them in their entirety this week. Thats great advice, thanks!
-
If vit.C deficiency is a problem you're dealing with, and don't have an issue with vegetables, I suggest looking for peppers and other foods that are particularly vit.C rich:
http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/vitamin-C.php (http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/vitamin-C.php)
Make the most of being an omnivorous animal and enjoy variety.
-
For the record, even Stefansson admitted that raw meats contain plenty of vitamin C. Cooking destroys most of the vitamin C very quickly, though.
-
For the record, even Stefansson admitted that raw meats contain plenty of vitamin C. Cooking destroys most of the vitamin C very quickly, though.
This statement appears true. But again, is the quantity a beneficial amount? The website nutritional data has 0mg of vitamin c in cooked chicken breast and 1.6 mg or 3% of your daily value in 100g of raw chicken breast. You have to eat over 3kg of chicken breast to get the rda of vit c compared to say (im guessing) 10 grams of adrenal gland. So if there is something wrong with my gallbladder, sure i might be able to fix it by eating chicken breast, but it could take me 2 years as opposed to eating raw gallbladder and fixing it in weeks if not days.
nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/687/2
-
I think we all agree that the more animal parts you eat, the healthier you will be. The question was whether it was correct to believe, that, for example, if you have a problem with your heart, that you should eat only animal hearts, or mainly animal hearts, to the exclusion of everything else, and that this would be a lot better for you than eating the whole animal.
Also, while reading sabertooth's post, I began to wonder... Could it be that our paleo ancestors got far more than their fair share of brain and marrow because they could easily get a carcass that was eaten by other carnivores down to the bone, and then simply pick a couple of big rocks and break them open, in a way that would be much harder for other animals to do?
And could it be that the reason for beginning to cook meat is that some people preferred making a bone/skull broth than having to physically exert themselves by breaking open the bones and the skull? If so, cooking meat could be the wild ancestor of microwave dinners. Easy and convenient, but very bad for your health. I have wondered for years about why humans would ever begin cooking meat. The whole roasting on a stick while sitting around the fire with the rest of the tribe, like marshmallows, didn't make any sense to me. This could be the answer.
-
The trouble is that raw chicken breast from 100% grainfed chickens will, inevitably, be nutritionally inferior by far, to raw, 100% pastured chicken breast from 100% raw, pastured chickens.
At any rate, eating raw glands can be a problem as some RPDers have complained that they contain nutrients that are far too concentrated. So eat tiny amounts of them at a time.
-
For the record, even Stefansson admitted that raw meats contain plenty of vitamin C. Cooking destroys most of the vitamin C very quickly, though.
Also for those eating very low carb diets, the amount of vitamin c and other plant derived antioxidant substances required is greatly reduced. If you are not eating foods which trigger oxidative reactions then you will not need mega doses of antioxidant nutrients to supply your basic metabolic needs.
I think we all agree that the more animal parts you eat, the healthier you will be. The question was whether it was correct to believe, that, for example, if you have a problem with your heart, that you should eat only animal hearts, or mainly animal hearts, to the exclusion of everything else, and that this would be a lot better for you than eating the whole animal.
Also, while reading sabertooth's post, I began to wonder... Could it be that our paleo ancestors got far more than their fair share of brain and marrow because they could easily get a carcass that was eaten by other carnivores down to the bone, and then simply pick a couple of big rocks and break them open, in a way that would be much harder for other animals to do?
And could it be that the reason for beginning to cook meat is that some people preferred making a bone/skull broth than having to physically exert themselves by breaking open the bones and the skull? If so, cooking meat could be the wild ancestor of microwave dinners. Easy and convenient, but very bad for your health. I have wondered for years about why humans would ever begin cooking meat. The whole roasting on a stick while sitting around the fire with the rest of the tribe, like marshmallows, didn't make any sense to me. This could be the answer.
I believe we are very adaptable and can obtain the nutrients needed to rebuild and maintain our bodies various systems without having to eat the particular corresponding animal parts. My point of contention, is when discussing what makes for optimal healing nutrition. The various organs of a healthy animal contain all the micro, macro, and proto nutrient factors necessary to build a healthy body, already pre assimilated and ready to be utilized by the predatory animal that consumes it.
There is also the theory that human beings, because we are so intelligent and opportunistic, began to seek out particular parts of the animal in order to fuel the enormous demands of our highly active bodies and brains. To the point where during the days when big game of both land and sea was endlessly plentiful our ancestors would hunt down the largest and fattest animals, eating their most nutritious organs, glands and fats, while leaving the lean meat scraps for the dogs and other scavengers. We can only imagine the kind of health, vitality and physical prowess some of these apex hunters living on mammoth fat could have obtained by being able to eat however much of whatever part of the animal they craved.
Typically most of us here do not have the luxury to pick and chose what to eat and what to throw away, and so during lean times our ancestors developed many adaptions to survive on less than optimal nutrition. The variation in different individuals ability to cope with different nutritional conditions persist to this day, and some people are much more capable of extracting nutrition from plants and animals which have become much more nutrient poor due to agriculturally induced soil depletion and imbalance.
Some of us have either lost our adaptation for malnourishment tolerance because of some environmental crisis, or never fully developed the capacity to thrive on neolithic foods to begin with... for these people it may be especially important for them to be able to gain access to the whole animal, and perhaps even to be able to eat ample amounts of certain parts of the animal that are richest in rejuvenative nutritional factors.
Now that is not to say you should go overboard, and eat ungodly amounts of brain, thyroid, pancreas tissue, ect... still it may be beneficial to eat more than the lions share of the most choice parts. I personally have found in my own healing journey that I do well eating higher portions of fat, and eating more supplemental fats and organs in general, than would most other practitioners of the paleo diet.
-
I believe we are very adaptable and can obtain the nutrients needed to rebuild and maintain our bodies various systems without having to eat the particular corresponding animal parts. My point of contention, is when discussing what makes for optimal healing nutrition. The various organs of a healthy animal contain all the micro, macro, and proto nutrient factors necessary to build a healthy body, already pre assimilated and ready to be utilized by the predatory animal that consumes it.
There is also the theory that human beings, because we are so intelligent and opportunistic, began to seek out particular parts of the animal in order to fuel the enormous demands of our highly active bodies and brains. To the point where during the days when big game of both land and sea was endlessly plentiful our ancestors would hunt down the largest and fattest animals, eating their most nutritious organs, glands and fats, while leaving the lean meat scraps for the dogs and other scavengers. We can only imagine the kind of health, vitality and physical prowess some of these apex hunters living on mammoth fat could have obtained by being able to eat however much of whatever part of the animal they craved.
Typically most of us here do not have the luxury to pick and chose what to eat and what to throw away, and so during lean times our ancestors developed many adaptions to survive on less than optimal nutrition. The variation in different individuals ability to cope with different nutritional conditions persist to this day, and some people are much more capable of extracting nutrition from plants and animals which have become much more nutrient poor due to agriculturally induced soil depletion and imbalance.
Some of us have either lost our adaptation for malnourishment tolerance because of some environmental crisis, or never fully developed the capacity to thrive on neolithic foods to begin with... for these people it may be especially important for them to be able to gain access to the whole animal, and perhaps even to be able to eat ample amounts of certain parts of the animal that are richest in rejuvenative nutritional factors.
Now that is not to say you should go overboard, and eat ungodly amounts of brain, thyroid, pancreas tissue, ect... still it may be beneficial to eat more than the lions share of the most choice parts. I personally have found in my own healing journey that I do well eating higher portions of fat, and eating more supplemental fats and organs in general, than would most other practitioners of the paleo diet.
Another excellent post sabertooth. We certainly think along the same lines. I too was recently pondering the health and vitality of ancient man - the brightness of their eyes; the clarity of mind, the ability to tolerate incredible hardships - it would be amazing to witness. I remember weston a price commenting on the beauty of the women, and athleticism of the men in the Swiss village he documented. He was also amazed at the children running around barefoot and unaffected by the cold weather.
I think its also important to emphasis your point that some people need to directly access the potency and healing proprieties of certain organs/glands to due to the fact that the environment in which we live, and the brutality and stupidity of the allopathic medical protocol (attack the body with drugs and surgery), has created a state of health in most people that requires extreme measures to repair.
Im also interested in knowing what your diet is sabertooth? Im particularly interested in the fats you eat. I have a deep cavity in one of my teeth and in the last few days, after having eaten excessive amounts of butter, i have noticed the pain has reduced significantly. The pain in my midsection hasnt really improved though unfortunately. I was about to order some lambs fat from the local organic (pasture raised) butcher and chew on some during the day.
-
My diet has been fairly steady for the last couple of years.....
Roughly 60% of my caloric intake comes from pasture raised sheep fat( which includes the belly fat, suet, back fat muscular fat, brain fat, marrow, ect) I also eat a little coconut butter daily around three to four table spoons.
Note-I am real particular about my fats, and some so called grass fed fat will not taste right to me. I have often thrown out whole animals that have not tasted right. Its taken some time to hone my taste, but now I am able to better discern the quality of an animal by the first taste of its blood. The liver is also a good indicator of health, a sweet tasting liver is usually a good sign. On the other hand livers from animals fed grain, given worming drugs or fed poor quality grass will often have cyst or abscesses and taste absolutely horrid. I have worked as a butcher in a facility that processed "grass fed animals" and was appalled at the poor quality, awful taste, and signs of sickness in the animals. I have had to go to extremes to procure the quality of animals that fit my finicky taste. I have looked far and wide for animals that have not been fed any grain, or given deworming chemicals, from small farms. I prefer the older and fatter animals, and am not able to sustain myself on young lean animals without having to buy extra supplemental fats.
25% of my diet is from the protein primarily sheep meat( which includes muscle meat, organs, connective tissue, stomach, intestines, glands, tongue, eyes... and just about everything except the skin and bones) also eat about 3 eggs a day from my own chickens, and the occasional sea food.
10% of my diet is from a wide variety of low glycemic carbohydrate foods including salad greens, tomatoes, avocados, culinary herbs, sea weed, lemons, coconut...
Now that my gut has been healed I am less cautious about my carb choices... and will occasionally indulge in treats and condiments to top of my salads like olives, mild salsa, pine nuts, hemp seeds....
I still have problems with high glycemic fruits and starchy vegetables, that make me feel bloated and affect my ability to process fat.
There are other components of my diet which stray a little off the paleo path, like my current experiment with colostrum . Its been about a month of taking 4 table spoons a day and so far my digestion is working real good. It seems I am tolerating it just fine and feel good, without any of the issues I get with raw whole dairy. Though I seem to tolerate colostrum, I still am a dairy skeptic and believe that all the other dairy I have experimented with has caused me issues. Mostly in terms of excess gut mucus , bloating and liver congestion..... so for anyone using dairy who has gut issues, I still recommend total abstinence, even though I am now beginning to shift toward suggesting that colostrum be considered as an alternative for people who insist on keeping dairy in their diets.
I will also drink brewed chaga from time to time, homemade kombucha and other herbal teas and tonics that my girlfriend makes.
As for dental advise.....I practice natural hygiene and have not brushed my teeth in years, and have no issues with plaque or decay, I clean my mouth out with saliva, I also chew connective tissue like gum after meals.... it cleans my teeth and stimulates my gums and the nerves in my teeth to rejuvenate. Depending on the degree of damage, teeth are capable of re-enamelling, or at least under the right conditions further decay can be halted....If the damage is extensive enough then you may need it worked on by a professional dentist...just make sure they don't give you a root canal, or a mercury filling, and try to limit the amount of drugs they give you to a minimal.
-
Thanks Sabertooth.
Do you eat all the meat and fat raw?
I was just about to contact my butcher and ask for some lamb fat trimmings. I nibble on roasted nuts all day for energy but i want to replace it with raw animal fat. Is that a good idea?
-
Saber, do you floss your teeth?
-
Thanks Sabertooth.
Do you eat all the meat and fat raw?
I was just about to contact my butcher and ask for some lamb fat trimmings. I nibble on roasted nuts all day for energy but i want to replace it with raw animal fat. Is that a good idea?
Everything is raw...Raw animal fats in my opinion are far more superior nutritionally than any plant derived source, plus eating lamb fat is by far much better for your teeth than nuts.
Saber, do you floss your teeth?
No I don't floss....I found flossing a very crude method of cleaning between the teeth that can irritate the gums and possibly cause the gum tissue to recede leaving one even more open to getting corrosive foods stuck in between teeth What foods I eat seem to break down and get cleared from between my teeth as I chew connective tissue after meals. What bits of fat and animal protein that will occasionally get caught, does not seem to cause any decay, and so I don't worry about flossing it out.
I am an avid advocate of tonguing your teeth, and licking your chops frequently to keep things clear of potentially corrosive elements.
If I get a particularly large piece of something between my teeth that cant be swished out with saliva, I have learned how to clear it out rather effectively with a finger nail.
-
I was just curious. Thanks.
-
Everything is raw...Raw animal fats in my opinion are far more superior nutritionally than any plant derived source, plus eating lamb fat is by far much better for your teeth than nuts.
You described the basics of what you eat n a post above, but can you be specific, as im really interested.
For example, what do you eat for breakfast and what do you drink; what do you snack on when hungry - raw fat? Do you have any sweets and if so, how does it make you feel?
Can you comment on this diet I am designing: again, the purpose is health, but also heal my damaged gallbladder/liver/pancreas etc:
B- raw milk, raw cream, raw butter, 1 banana, unheated honey, 6 eggs (in a shake)
s - raw animal fat or avacodos/cold pressed olive oil or raw cheese or fruit
L - sour dough bread sandwhich with salad, sliced meat and raw cheese (I deviate slightly from primal diet here)
s - raw animal fat or avacodos/cold pressed olive oil or raw cheese or fruit
D- Raw meat. Focusing on eating everypart of the animal every week. Blood, marrow, brains - everything. Maybe some starchy potatoes and vegetables/salads.
s - raw animal fat or avacodos/cold pressed olive oil or raw cheese or fruit
-
At 37:20 in this interview, AV says organs meats arent really that special and most disease can be reversed without them. He advocates organ meats for athletes and physical workers. But later in the interview,he discusses specifically using adrenal glands to cure certain aliments. Bit confused.
oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/primal-diet-raw-everything-aajonus-vonderplanitz/
-
Sabertooth, I was thinking of making some sort of crude primal shake to help me consume these cuts/foods because Im having trouble with digestion and because i find most of it quite foul. What id like to do is get a bit of brain, thyroid, adrenal, liver, muscle meat, bone marrow, pancreas, some blood, etc, and whisk it in a blender with some tomato/vegetable juice and some flavorings, and drink it. What do you think?
-
At 37:20 in this interview, AV says organs meats arent really that special and most disease can be reversed without them. He advocates organ meats for athletes and physical workers. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/primal-diet-raw-everything-aajonus-vonderplanitz/
In the long run, you absolutely will need organ meats or seafoods (especially shellfish) to avoid deficiencies. And organ meats and seafoods are crucial for brain and skeletal growth and health in children, pregnant women, and women trying to become pregnant.
Aajonus tried to dumb down the diet to get more people to start it. He figured that, once people realized how good it made them feel, they'd research it more and correct their deficiencies. At least, that's my guess.
-
Id say your meal plan seems like a reasonable approach, but I would advise you to begin to hone your taste buds, and let your instincts tell you how much to eat of each food.
Sometimes dairy will cause issues, but because of its addictive nature, it is often difficult for the instincts to be able to tell you to eliminate it from the diet, so if you are still experiencing digestive issues, I highly suggest you try to abstain from all dairy.
Fruits and honey give me trouble, so personally I cant handle it....but others on the paleo diet can, so its up to the individual to decide
At 37:20 in this interview, AV says organs meats arent really that special and most disease can be reversed without them. He advocates organ meats for athletes and physical workers. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/primal-diet-raw-everything-aajonus-vonderplanitz/
AVs claims were based entirely on his own opinions on what makes for an optimal diet, I respect many of his insights, but he is not the paragon of nutritional dogmatic truth. In his diet which depends heavily on foods like eggs, dairy, high meat, perhaps he believes you can obtain most of the nutrients that are contained in organ meats from other foods.
I'm highly active and can vouch that organ meats are necessary for me, but I can't speak for people who are more sedentary, perhaps people with lower energy requirements wont needs as much organ meats, but still I think organ can be beneficial to people of all activity levels.
-
Sabertooth, I was thinking of making some sort of crude primal shake to help me consume these cuts/foods because Im having trouble with digestion and because i find most of it quite foul. What id like to do is get a bit of brain, thyroid, adrenal, liver, muscle meat, bone marrow, pancreas, some blood, etc, and whisk it in a blender with some tomato/vegetable juice and some flavorings, and drink it. What do you think?
Its worth a try, I don't mix meat with veggies in my smoothies, but some people may find it more appealing that way.
I really like stomach smoothies, the stomach is a good base and has a real mild flavor that goes good with the more stronger tasting organs and glands.
Stomach, raw eggs , and water is a real bland and simple smoothie to try when getting started, and you can begin to add in other things according to your own taste.
-
Its worth a try, I don't mix meat with veggies in my smoothies, but some people may find it more appealing that way.
I really like stomach smoothies, the stomach is a good base and has a real mild flavor that goes good with the more stronger tasting organs and glands.
Stomach, raw eggs , and water is a real bland and simple smoothie to try when getting started, and you can begin to add in other things according to your own taste.
-
@ 58 minuets AV talks about the benefits of fresh glands,
I concur with his conclusions on that point.
-
Even primal dieters routinely recommend eating raw organ meats in order to speed up health-recovery.Aajonus merely started his diet of mostly raw dairy, raw coconut cream, veggie-juice,raw nuts , raw eggs and raw honey because those were the raw foods most cooked-foodists could more easily adapt to almost instantly. Raw organ-meats have a stronger taste, so those who are more used to eating bland-tasting cooked foods take time to get used to the richer taste of organs/wild meats etc.
-
Thanks guys. You're really helping me out and giving me confidence. Im still very cautious as Ive tried so many diets to heal, and many have been very damaging, particularly the cooked Paleo diet. In fact, the cooked Paleo was probably the worst thing ive done in 18 years trying to heal myself. I just had raw chicken and avocado for dinner despite not feeling like meat at all. I just felt like some potato and a cooked egg. I only had about 100grams of meat and Im still hungry, but Im still super cautious so I dont want to indulge. What part of me that is broken would not feel comfortable processing meat? I can feel it when i eat meat more than any other food. It causes pain and discomfort. Raw meat certainly helps, but like i said previously, i really just want to eat light food like fruit and vegetables and starch which cause little pain. That would have to be my gallbladder wouldn't it?
Also, someone told me I need about 900 grams of meat a day to start really healing myself. Is there any truth to this?
Also, the terrible pain is around my gallbladder, liver or pancreas, but what if its my kidneys that aren't working and expelling toxins, and because of them they are putting stress on my liver causing pain? Or perhaps my thyroid is under-performing and thus affecting my detoxification? So in actual fact, I need to address another organ or gland as opposed to the one casuing so much pain. Is this possible?
-
What id like to do is get a bit of brain, thyroid, adrenal, liver, muscle meat, bone marrow, pancreas, some blood, etc, and whisk it in a blender with some tomato/vegetable juice and some flavorings, and drink it. What do you think?
AV also said in his books not to mix meats with alcaline fruits or vegetable juice in large quantities because those impair the digestion of meats which require an acidic digestive environment. He said you should wait at least an hour after consuming one to consume the other.
-
AVs claims were based entirely on his own opinions on what makes for an optimal diet, I respect many of his insights, but he is not the paragon of nutritional dogmatic truth.
Ive read his book and listened to many of his interviews. His teachings are so hard to take seriously because of his wild claims. I heard him recently saying he could have sold out and made millions of dollars not just as a diet guru, but as the face of some cigarette brand in the 70's. I forget the exact quote, but it was something ridiculous like he turned down 7 million dollars to be the face of the brand.
-
Do you guys eat much fruit or starch? If not, was it hard to ween off carbs?
-
why not eat potato and cooked eggs? certainly it would better than sourdough bread, and i would even recommend cooked egg and potato over avocado and olive oil as the former is much less processed and might be easier to digest for you. peel and cook the potatoes, let them cool, add some dandelion greens and some seaweed and gently cook the egg whites, leaving the yolk to drizzle in at the end.
-
why not eat potato and cooked eggs? certainly it would better than sourdough bread, and i would even recommend cooked egg and potato over avocado and olive oil as the former is much less processed and might be easier to digest for you. peel and cook the potatoes, let them cool, add some dandelion greens and some seaweed and gently cook the egg whites, leaving the yolk to drizzle in at the end.
Hi Jessica, thanks for your contribution. You've probably read this thread and what Im trying to achieve, but ill just summarize quickly in case you haven't:
One or more of my organs located in my midsection and likely related to digestion is under functioning and causing me incredibly pain which becomes exasperated after eating. Having studied the digestive process, I believe it must be ether my stomach, liver, gallbladder or pancreas.
To address this problem, I need to - a) stop this organ(s) from causing me pain with the appropriate diet, and
b) heal this organ(s) with the appropriate diet.
Ive deduced that eating raw meat will heal the organ(s), but Ive also deduced that eating the corresponding organ(s) of a healthy animal will provide healing far quicker and more effectively.
Now, you ask "why not eat potato and cooked eggs?" which is a good question. Im still working on (a) which is reducing the pain. Most foods cause pain and cooked foods more so than others. Fruit and juice is probably the only thing that doesn't. Eating potato and cooked eggs cause me pain - more pain than avocado and olive oil - but it certainly is not as satiating.
-
have you tried just raw egg yolks? what about any seaweed? would you consider taking a pancreas supplement to help your digestion enough so that you can actually assimilate any of the nutrients you need for healing? do you ever wonder if these other foods hurt to eat because the foods that you are eating that feel okay (especially fruit, avocado, olive oil and sourdough bread...really, you eat bread still?) are actually just somehow just masking symptoms, and there is a reason you arent satiated by them and arent healing?
-
I joined this forum less than a week after I bought and read Aajonus' We Want to Live, which turned out to be very fortunate for me: instead of trying to wade through AV's quirky history and claims, I started eating raw paleo as I read about it on this forum. I got so much relief within the first two weeks that I hesitate to tell people to "ease" into RPD. I mean, why wait to get better?
As I read your summary, I noticed that you are naming most internal organs as culprits in your discomfort, and that you think that the cause is weak organs. I am more inclined to believe that you are eating foods that irritate you. I think this is the case in many complaints that elude diagnosis.
For example, you list olive oil at almost every meal. At the very best, this is last season's crop; in the worst case, you are eating olive oil that is older. This suggests that you are habitually eating rancid oil. You also list milk and wheat, common allergens. The good news is that it's easy to eliminate allergens to gain rapid relief.
Perhaps you can experiment with RPD (raw paleo in a caveman style, with no seasoning and no/minimal mixing of food types) for a few days to see if you get relief.
-
Agreed with eve. Get off the olive oil for about a week, see how you feel.
-
Coconut cream would be an excellent substitute for olive oil in the diet to try out, if you are able to obtain fresh coconuts?
-
have you tried just raw egg yolks? what about any seaweed? would you consider taking a pancreas supplement to help your digestion enough so that you can actually assimilate any of the nutrients you need for healing? do you ever wonder if these other foods hurt to eat because the foods that you are eating that feel okay (especially fruit, avocado, olive oil and sourdough bread...really, you eat bread still?) are actually just somehow just masking symptoms, and there is a reason you arent satiated by them and arent healing?
No, I have not tried raw egg yolks. Thanks for the suggestion. I will try that today. Ive had spirulina if that counts? I went to see a natropath recently (Ive seen probably a dozen over 18 years), and he said my digestive enzymes were low. I took his pancreatic enzymes but they didn't really help. What do you mean "masking the symptoms"? Like these foods provide relief but the problem still exists? Like this diet provides confront because it bypasses the problem? Yes, 100%! Its the only food/diet that doesn't cause pain and allows me to function somewhat normally. I know for a fact they are not healing me, just allowing me to exist. Its frustrating, but there is something about fruit and juice (raw and fresh) that bypasses all the digestive pain that nothing else can.
I joined this forum less than a week after I bought and read Aajonus' We Want to Live, which turned out to be very fortunate for me: instead of trying to wade through AV's quirky history and claims, I started eating raw paleo as I read about it on this forum. I got so much relief within the first two weeks that I hesitate to tell people to "ease" into RPD. I mean, why wait to get better?
As I read your summary, I noticed that you are naming most internal organs as culprits in your discomfort, and that you think that the cause is weak organs. I am more inclined to believe that you are eating foods that irritate you. I think this is the case in many complaints that elude diagnosis.
For example, you list olive oil at almost every meal. At the very best, this is last season's crop; in the worst case, you are eating olive oil that is older. This suggests that you are habitually eating rancid oil. You also list milk and wheat, common allergens. The good news is that it's easy to eliminate allergens to gain rapid relief.
Perhaps you can experiment with RPD (raw paleo in a caveman style, with no seasoning and no/minimal mixing of food types) for a few days to see if you get relief.
Thanks for you contribution eve. Really appreciate it.
Thats exactly why I am here. I read his book and found the basic premise of his contention sound, but found a lot of his assertions and claims to be ridiculous. I contacted a local "AV potluck" and the lady i spoke too was just as crazy. With all respect to a great man and pioneer, I knew I had to look outside of AV's influence for the knowledge I needed.
"I am more inclined to believe that you are eating foods that irritate you. I think this is the case in many complaints that elude diagnosis. " - I can say categorically that it is something wrong with my organs. For 18 years i have tried everything, 10 of those years were focused on diet. Ive tried every food rotation and exclusion diet on the planet. I even fasted for periods of time. If food is my culprit, then nearly every food on the planet is the culprit! I had that mindset for 10 years and exhausted that theory. There is definitely something that requires healing and nutrition inside me. This is not solely a matter of exclusion and avoidance.
No, I do not take olive oil. I never do. It was something i was going to try. I dont think i will though.
Yesterday I had a good day eating raw meat all day until the evening in which i had some rice. The problem is, i don't want to eat anything, but Im so damm hungry. Even raw meat causes me pain and discomfort so its hard to just switch over. My body is really telling me not too eat anything but fruit and juices but like i mentioned before, it doesn't heal me, just bypasses the problem and reduces the pain.
Coconut cream would be an excellent substitute for olive oil in the diet to try out, if you are able to obtain fresh coconuts?
Ill look for some at the shjops today. Thanks saber. Btw, I cant get it canned can i? Thats easy to obtain..
-
More interesting quotes regarding the importance of eating the whole animal:
"Some of the pioneers in nutrition believed that raw glandular tissues contain intrinsic protein factors which are separate from, but synergistic with the vitamins, minerals, trace minerals, enzymes, co-enzymes, and fatty acids contained therein. These specific protein factors are organ -- or tissue -- specific. This means that the raw cellular material of a bovine kidney, for example, will be picked up from the lymph of the human kidney when ingested. These tissue-specific particles apparently "target" other cooperative and essential nutrients to the gland or organ for repair and maintenance."
"Each gland, organ and tissue of the body is unique. One cannot describe formational, structural, and functional features that are common to all of them. Thus, each consists of a distinctive protein makeup"
I find this theory very interesting. It basically suggests that if ones body desperately requires specific nutrition, it may increase gut permeability out of desperation to obtain it.
"Any physical illness, tissue insult, injury, or excessive stress -- including chronic malnutrition and/or chronic poisoning -- can increase protein breakdown in the body and, when affecting a particular gland or organ, can result in accelerated protein catabolism in that area. So it is significant that in "certain physiologic (including disease) states, the permeability of the intestine to whole proteins is enhanced, and transfer of whole proteins also occurs by passage between cells of the villus." If an individual experiences adrenal gland fatigue, it would follow that the body innately absorbs more proteins or protein portions specially required to support adrenal tissue health and regeneration. xii"
http://www.allaboutnutritionalhealing.com/glandularsupplements (http://www.allaboutnutritionalhealing.com/glandularsupplements)
-
i am just thinking your current diet keeps your body at a level of inflammation that you are comfortable with and that might feel normal, and that is why it feels okay to eat the way you do. do you take any probiotics or eat any aged or fermented foods? do you have access to sea foods? do you eat any veggies or raw dairy? do you have any skin or other issues besides what is going on inside your body, slow healing or wounds etc, or candida issues? is there perhaps a psychosomatic issue that you are also dealing with? something in your life that causes you anxiety or pain that you dont feel able to change? have you considered taking dr rons freeze dried glandulars or something similar in absence of fresh? have you ever had your blood mineral levels taken?
-
i am just thinking your current diet keeps your body at a level of inflammation that you are comfortable with and that might feel normal, and that is why it feels okay to eat the way you do. do you take any probiotics or eat any aged or fermented foods? do you have access to sea foods? do you eat any veggies or raw dairy? do you have any skin or other issues besides what is going on inside your body, slow healing or wounds etc, or candida issues? is there perhaps a psychosomatic issue that you are also dealing with? something in your life that causes you anxiety or pain that you dont feel able to change? have you considered taking dr rons freeze dried glandulars or something similar in absence of fresh? have you ever had your blood mineral levels taken?
Hi Jessica,
Im not really sure what you mean by the first comment? In answer to your questions: yes and yes. No, i dont eat seafood- ive struggled with seafood since a child. Yes, and yes. No skin probs or candida atm - I did but when i stopped eating sugar it went away. Not mental or psychosomatic - explored that possibility for 2-3 years. No. I have taken glandulars - thryoid, adrenal etc - they have made me sick accept for the pancreas. Yes- showed a few abnormalities.
-
Im interested in hearing opinions on fruit.
Ive tried so many times to quit fruit in the last 10 years because many people assert it can be detrimental, but i feel so much better when i eat it. Its so refreshing, energizing and easy to digest. It makes me feel "cleansed". I think AV purposely restricted fruit despite saying he craved it, and I think he also said he only ate unripe fruit. I believe this was a mistake.
I was just reading curemanual.com/cure-manual-summary/ which was linked from this site and they advocate a raw food diet, and although they leans towards fruitarianism, they do accept raw meat and raw eggs are beneficial.
-
there is a short book called "How to Live 100 Years", or "Discourses on the Sober Life"
http://soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020105cornaro.html (http://soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020105cornaro.html)
It helped me understand many things, hope you give it a try =)
it's the story of a man that was really sick at age 30, and went to the doctors and they said he had to change his diet inmediatly or he will die.
He wrote the book at age 90 aprox.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you swallow the tissue that is left when you chew and chew and chew the meat?