Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Inger on February 16, 2020, 04:24:41 pm
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Hello everyone!
I would really appreciate what your experiences are about this topic.
I got my ferritine levels checked after Christmas and they were 180. A red flag for me, not for my doctor though but I think they really have no clue about iron overload.
I started to read about it and put 1 + 1 together....... some minor issues that I had experienced this last summer and fall... that I had not really been able to figure out.
A hurtful joint and a little swollen too, on my finger, but I thought it was because I work a ton in summer as a waitress and we had those new plates that are heavy to carry. Also my fingers were kind of a little swollen? Now I am pretty sure, it was from too much iron. Also one of my knee made some issues so I could not continue running, what I had started to do as season at work ended. I thought it was a injury issue from this summer when I hurt my knee a bit... but I do not think so anymore.
Also in fall my liver started to feel stressed at times, some minor discomfort, especially when I vacuum cleaned for a longer time(working a second job as housekeeper).. I thought maybe the magnetic/electric radiation and the iron reacted somehow. Logical, because iron works like a magnet.
The more I learned the more I am sure I had way too much iron accumulated!! I have been eating mostly raw galloway beef, very high quality pastured meat from a farmer here, they do not get any other feed that what is on the pasture. Not even parasite medication. Nothing.
My friend told me, in France, doctors tell anemic people to eat raw meat. It must be raw because that is how the iron is best absorbed.
I would never have had the slightest idea, I could accumulate too much iron!! And that is really not a good thing. It makes you age way faster.. and causes many issues in your body wit time. It can take many years before issues start to appear though.
Also if your ancestors are from Irland or Norway or other Scandinavian coutries, it is a 10% probability that you have a genetic mutation for excess iron uptake - that used to serve people well and help survival long ago, but today it does the opposite.... because of how we live and eat in the modern world.
I am now doing things differently to reverse it. This is what I do;
No more red meat. If, just liver, once in a while, as it is high in copper and that is what is neded to mobilize the iron. Also heart because it has other benefits too. But no more muscle meat for me in a while, until I have solved this issue.
Instead I eat seafood. Herring and mackerel and oysters I eat raw, and wil caught salmon and cod etc, the less fatty fishes, I eat cooked. Very gently cooked though.
Also raw eggyolks, and here and there some raw sheepsmilk cheese.
I drink peppermint tea a lot, always with meals, because it should help reduce iron uptake. Also green tea.
I do raw coconut oil for fat - seems my liver loves it right now - too much raw beef fat seems not too good at the moment. Small amounts are fine.
I also eat black sesame/sesame seeds because they are high in copper. Or some hazelnuts. Also high in copper. I try to naturally get in more copper, because how I see it is, I have too much iron and too little copper.
Oysters are high in copper and might have saved me for quite a while on the road... balanced all the excess iron out for a bit - but this fall I did not have oysters for a month and that is when my issues in the liver started. In winter it is hard for me to source oysters because it is so much water in the sea as there are plenty of storms here then.
I might do some more veggies/greens when the sun gets stronger, we are in the middle of winter right now so I want to stay mostly carnivore.
And most important, I am donating bood.
This is so important! My blood is really good quality and doctor was happy to get some of it ;).
But in Germany you can only donate 4 times /year as a woman. So I will do those 4 times and hope it is enough, in addition to all the other changes I have made.
I have to say, my liver is feeling better already, even if I have donated only once so far(funny thing is, my liver bloodwork all come back great, all my bloodwork was great - despite the discomfort I have been feeling from time to time. Also my HDL was really good, which also indicates a healthy liver...)
I feel really good about it, like I am on the right path :) :)
I am worried now that other people trying to eat raw carnivore and doing lots of raw meat, wil run into an iron overload issue....
Seems really many have some issues and trying to solve them. Please speak out about it so we can learn from you.
To have a metal accumulate in your body is not at all fun because today there is so much nnEMF everywhere. Imagine, it is like you are walking around as a big antenna.... >D
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Excess iron in the body can cause significant damage, and can lead to the following:
Diabetes
Arthritis
Infertility
Osteoporosis and joint pain
Neurodegenerative disorders (Multiple Sclerosis, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s, epilepsy and Huntington’s disease)
Irregular heartbeat or heart attacks
Cirrhosis of the liver
Depression
Gallbladder disease
Hypothyroidism (The risk of hypothyroidism is 80 times greater than normal for men with hemochromatosis)
For men, symptoms can begin in their 20’s and 30’s, while for women, they can arise 10-15 years after menopause. Symptoms can occur for up to ten years before a diagnosis of hemochromatosis. Men have a 24-fold increased rate of iron-overload disease compared with women.
https://nutritiongenome.com/the-connection-to-irish-heritage-and-the-hemochromatosis-genes/
PS. I forgot to tell, I am in perimenopause and having my period way less frequently now, which makes me not loose much blood anymore... and also I never had heavy periods either, very normal and easy, but of course a heavy period would have been better to get rid of excess iron ;)
I wonder if this is the real downside to raw carnivore, and why some many give up on it feeling issues arising.. because they eat so much red meat. And also too much fish is not suitable for everybodys genetics.
Genetics (and also where you live on the earth) play a big role what foods you do best on or not I guess....
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Uh.. thinking about it all makes me a little sad what I have been doing to my poor body :(....
It is so easy to hurt yourself being ignorant!! But I really try not to be, but some things we just do not know... so we will get hurt at times. We all are partly ignorant, and on a learning journey.
Main thing is, we learn and grow and are able to reverse the damage - and I am very confident I can do that.
And for all, it is so important to share it all with the community so no one else needs to do the same mistake!!
So please guys, if you have been eating lots of raw meat, go and do some bloodwork, just to be sure you are not accumulating too much iron. Also if you have some of the symptoms above, sometimes iron does not show up on the bloodwork too much, but still organs can have accumulated it! Imagine that.
There is a new kind of EMR that can diagnose iron accumulation in the liver, but it is very expensive procedure. I guess sometimes we can know just by judging our symptoms and how our body feels. The body always tries to tells us what it needs, if we only listen :)
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This was an interesting read;
http://www.hepatitiscfree.com/messages/2003/aug8b-info2003.htm
Dietary Iron Control
Various dietary practices can help control iron levels. In a relatively short period of time, dietary changes can result in anemia, iron overload or an ideal state of iron control. Anemia can be induced in about 120 days, while symptoms of iron overload can come on in just 60 days.
Humans absorb only a fraction of the iron they consume, but there are many controlling factors.20 Iron absorption rates from food vary widely, from less than 1 percent to nearly 100 percent.21 Cooks who use iron or stainless steel pots increase the amount of iron they consume.22 Generally, iron in plant foods is not as well absorbed as iron from meat: Only 5 percent of iron in plant foods is available, vs. 30 to 50 percent of iron from meat.23 Olive oil and spices such as anise, caraway, cumin, licorice and mint promote iron absorption,24 while antacids, eggs and soy reduce availability.25 Since dairy products contain lactoferrin, milk also inhibits the absorption of iron.26 Moderate alcohol consumption is unlikely to pose a problem with iron absorption, but excessive amounts of alcohol is associated with iron overload, particularly in adult males.27
Vitamin C also increases iron absorption.28 However, there is no evidence that vitamin C leads to iron overload. Thus vitamin C should not be avoided by meat-eaters for this reason, since studies show high-dose vitamin C supplements are associated with a decreased risk for heart disease, cancer, cataracts and other disorders.29 A vegetarian diet does not generally cause iron-deficiency anemia because there is more vitamin C in plant-food diets, which enhances absorption.30
A 1982 human study was conducted to assess the effect of various drinks on iron absorption. A subject ate a standard meal of a hamburger, string beans, mashed potatoes and water. When green tea was drunk instead of water, iron absorption was reduced by 62 percent. Coffee reduced iron absorption by 35 percent, whereas orange juice (as a source of vitamin C) increased absorption by 85 percent. Contrary to other studies, milk and beer had no significant effect.31
Bioflavonoids (found in berries, coffee, green tea, pine bark, quercetin and the rind of citrus fruits, particularly blueberry, cranberry, elderberry and grape seed) and phytic acid (a component of whole grains and seeds such as sesame) bind to iron and other minerals in the gastric tract and help to limit iron availability. If bioflavonoids and phytic acid haven't bound to minerals in the digestive tract they will get into the bloodstream, where they can bind to free iron, acting as blood-cleansing iron chelators. Therefore, maximum iron chelation in the blood circulation is achieved when these iron binders are consumed apart from meals.
Phytic acid--also called inositol hexaphosphate, or IP6--is comprised of six phosphorus molecules and one molecule of inositol. It has been mistakenly described for decades as an "anti-nutrient" because it impairs mineral absorption. However, in the 1980s food biochemist Ernst Graf, Ph.D., began to tout phytic acid for its beneficial antioxidant properties achieved through mineral chelation.32
Phytic acid in foods or bran should be distinguished from supplemental phytic acid, which is derived from rice bran extract. In foods, phytic acid binds to iron and other minerals in the digestive tract and may interfere with mineral absorption. As a purified extract of rice bran, taken between meals so it will not bind to minerals in the digestive tract, phytic acid is readily absorbed into the bloodstream, where it acts as a potent mineral chelator.33 Phytic acid binds to any free iron or other minerals (even heavy metals such as mercury, lead and cadmium) in the blood, which are then eliminated through the kidneys. Phytic acid removes only excess or unbound minerals, not mineral ions already attached to proteins.
Phytic acid is such a potent--but safe--iron and mineral chelator that it may someday replace intravenous chelation therapy such as the mineral-chelator EDTA or iron-binding drugs such as desferrioxamine (Desferal). Because of its ability to bind to iron and block iron-driven hydroxyl radical generation (water-based) as well as suppress lipid peroxidation (fat-based), phytic acid has been used successfully as an antioxidant food preservative.34
Phytic acid supplements should not be taken during pregnancy since the developing fetus requires minerals for proper development. Because aspirin causes a small loss of blood and consequently helps to control iron levels, the simultaneous use of phytic acid with a daily aspirin tablet is not advised. A three-month course of phytic acid should achieve adequate iron chelation, and prolonged daily supplementation may lead to iron-deficiency anemia. Anemic individuals who take phytic acid as a food supplement are likely to feel weak shortly after consumption, whereas iron-overloaded individuals are likely to feel increased energy.
For those at risk for iron overload, it may be wise to avoid iron in multivitamins and shun fortified foods that provide more than 25 percent of the recommended daily intake for iron. No doctor should prescribe iron tablets for patients who complain of fatigue without blood tests and a thorough health history. Iron-rich foods such as red meat and molasses may prevent anemia and build strength during the growing years but in adulthood may lead to iron overload among men and postmenopausal women. Those individuals who learn how to achieve iron balance will maintain the most desirable state of health throughout life.
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"Testosterone replacement therapy supresses a hormone called hepcidin responsible for regulating iron absorption. So you are absorbing more iron..."
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/my-experiment-with-ip6-iron-chelator.17623/
Found this as I googled IP6.
Holy moly... more pieces coming on their place!! I was drinking lots of sheep ball smoothies a 2-3 years ago.......OMG
I stopped, because I realized it gave me too much testosterone - I got body signs of it.
But still it might have added to the iron issue...
errr.... biohacking gone wrong ???
I did buy me some IP6, seems to be a great way to lower iron. I am going to do it in addition to the donating blood every 2-3 months. That should bring my iron levels pretty fast to a good level :)
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All very fascinating. I eat a very diverse diet, not just animal-derived foods, so have never seen any symptoms of iron overload (or deficiency).
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Hi Inger,
thats interresting, me as well I suspect having an Iron overload now. I went carnivore for a while, mostly galloway meat, no veggies any more and not a lot of fat, supplementing with Vitamin C with increases iron absorbtion, and started feeling more and more sick. Tomorrow i m going to the doktor for bloodtests. I feel a bit at a lost in what to eat now, so I eat very littel animal protein but lots of fibrous vegetables, nuts and seeds but I m very tired now. I found out about the IP6 as well, already ordered it. How much are you going to take?
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Hi Inger,
thats interresting, me as well I suspect having an Iron overload now. I went carnivore for a while, mostly galloway meat, no veggies any more and not a lot of fat, supplementing with Vitamin C with increases iron absorbtion, and started feeling more and more sick. Tomorrow i m going to the doktor for bloodtests. I feel a bit at a lost in what to eat now, so I eat very littel animal protein but lots of fibrous vegetables, nuts and seeds but I m very tired now. I found out about the IP6 as well, already ordered it. How much are you going to take?
Hi Little Elefant :)
wow that is interesting. Please let me know what your bloodtest shows!
I am not sure yet how much to take, i read someone with iron overload was taking 2000 mg/day, a male though. I might go with 1000 mg and maybe every other day? I need to research a little more about it. Will recieve my IP6 at wendmesday I think. I am so curious how it will work out... :)
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All very fascinating. I eat a very diverse diet, not just animal-derived foods, so have never seen any symptoms of iron overload (or deficiency).
Eric, would you share with me what your diet consist of, mostly? And how are you doing so far?
Do you do some cooked stuff too? I do... I cook wild caught salmon, or cod.. and mussles.. and shrimp. I do eat a lot raw though. But not everything.
I might have to start cooking my meat a little when I start eating it again, because it makes the iron less absorbable. I do not want it though, because I really love the taste of raw meat. Lets see how fast I get my iron to drop ;) :) Or I will take some natural phytates with raw meat, like sesame seeds, or maybe some raw dairy with it, dairy also prevent some of the iron absorption, as do certain herbs.
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Morley robins suggested in his podcast on extreamhealthradio 3 things to get rid of excess iron.
1. blood donation. He mentioned that fasting before donating blood can release more iron during donation. He also mentioned that retinol helps autophagy.
2. Then there is a list of supplements that he recommends to get rid of it
3. and the most interesting one was recommended for people that, for whatever reason, cannot do blood donations. He said to soak a flanel in castor oil, wrap that in plastic foil and then put a healing pad over that, then place it on the liver. It´s supposed to heal eczema too. The castor oil method was apparently used in the older days as well.
He also said that the best source for copper is bee pollen, followed by calf liver (beef would have too much iron) and oranges on 3rd place, allthough I don´t understand why he would mention oranges, as it seems to be pretty low. I´d also be careful with too much liver, you don´t want to run into more issues when it comes to vitamin a toxicity. Dr. Garrett Smith has some good knowledge on this topic. Other sources of copper are oysters and hazelnut as you mentioned, but also pumpkin seeds. I think it would be better to go for the oil rather than the nuts itself, might be easier to digest and more bioavailable. 100 percent dark chocolate that has a high amount of cocoa butter, since the end product would be lower in oxalates (rather than only cocoa powder) would also be a good copper source. Mollusks also have good amounts of copper. Might even be better. Shiitake have good amounts too, also goji berries and capers are not too bad either.
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Eric, would you share with me what your diet consist of, mostly? And how are you doing so far?
Do you do some cooked stuff too? I do... I cook wild caught salmon, or cod.. and mussles.. and shrimp. I do eat a lot raw though. But not everything.
My diet changes with the seasons (I live in Vermont, USA). Summers I eat more foraged plants and some purchased organic veg, including berries. Winters I am nearly carnivore, but do eat some root vegetables and sometimes rice and mushrooms. I am not totally raw, and do not try to be. I do eat a lot of raw foods, but also see value in eating certain cooked foods. I work out a lot, so worry I would have trouble getting enough calories if I only ate raw, which I find very filling. I struggle to eat more than 2,000 kcal per day when eating only raw foods, and ideally need to eat 2,500 kcal+ on workout days to meet my needs.
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Hi norawnofun, the castor pack is inerresting, what supplements did Robins recomend? I can not donate blood because to donate blood you have to weight at least 50 kg
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All very fascinating. I eat a very diverse diet, not just animal-derived foods, so have never seen any symptoms of iron overload (or deficiency).
by the looks of our teeth, i reckon that humans are designed to eat a variety of foods RAW.
nice to have some more of the group pioneers posting; i often wonder what happened to all the members that were so active around 2009/2013.
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i often wonder what happened to all the members that were so active around 2009/2013.
People come and go. Most of the moderators here have long since stopped posting, but the forum owner never bothered to replace them. Facebook has pilfered much of people's time. It is easier to use than a clunky forum like this, and offers one-stop social media engagement, so to speak.
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Inger,
First of all, I think you are a very experienced and knowledgeable individual in the raw paleo lifestyle. I admire your courage in not being swayed by popular belief and in openly sharing a lifestyle that most think is dangerous to yourself and, to an extent, to those around you. Watching your videos and reading your posts always inspires me to continue pursuing this lifestyle, and your cheerful attitude often brings me joy on sad days.
However, I think here you may have been getting all worked up over something which may not even be an issue.
There are many reasons why a blood iron test can come up high, the main reason being if your diet is high in available iron, which it is. The question is not just about how much you absorb though, but how much your body stores and how much it eliminates, and why. It could be that your body has issues eliminating iron, but so far you seem to have little or no evidence that this is the case, other than a suspicion based not on real experience but on a lab test that could mean many things - and which even the doctors have no concerns about.
Some of your solutions to the problem seem fine and well - more seafood, less red meat could certainly be what's best for you.
I'm skeptical of the green tea being of help - this in effect works by impairing your digestion. Even if it works for the intended purpose, there are many side-effects of impairing digestion like that. Now if you enjoy green tea with your meals, and don't want to give it up, or perhaps you need the caffeine boost or want something warm to drink, that's another matter altogether, and I'm sure you can be healthy while including it. But to include it for health reasons seems counter-intuitive.
About blood donations, if you are doing this for humanitarian issues, that's fine and well. But to do this as a health practice seems bizarre to me. When you are injured and blood comes out, it hurts. Blood is designed to clot on contact with air so as to close the wound as soon as possible. Can you imagine paleo people willingly bleeding themselves on purpose and for enjoyment or as a form of medical practice? Bloodletting only came about in an age where most people were eating a very unnatural diet, based on grains, which would actually promote anemia. Even if bloodletting was an effective method for reducing iron in the blood, this would only be necessary if your body has a problem eliminating iron, since elimination is what you're doing. However, it seems to me that creating new blood, with the great nutritional and building requirements it has, simply for the sake of eliminating iron, puts a big strain on your body, and I believe it could in fact be much more likely to age you quickly. We know that things that destroy blood cells (as well as other cells), such as alcohol consumption, age us faster. Here you are technically destroying (or rather, eliminating) blood cells on purpose. While you don't have to deal with the cleanup of dead cells that would result from heavy alcohol consumption, you do have to deal with the big task of constantly replenishing your blood supply. Finally, all of that new blood requires iron to make. So when you do that, your body is more likely to hold on to iron. I would worry that continually doing this would set your body up for iron retention.
You said that you might have a genetic mutation for increased iron intake. When do you suppose this mutation came about? Scandinavian people aren't particularly known for a heavy grain dependence, since little grain can be grown there. If anything we would expect to find this mutation in people who relied heavily on grains and thus needed such increased iron absorption - therefore it would be most likely present mainly in people from northeast asia, and to a lesser extent india, the middle east and europe and central and south america.
About the vaccuum cleaning, it could simply be the EMF like you mentioned, or more likely still, the air you are breathing. House dust is not the same as dirt in nature. House dust is full of toxic elements that come off the walls, off all kinds of plastic and treated wood and paper; particles from all sorts of aerosol sprays including deodorant and even poison (bug spray), soaps and detergents and other chemicals used in cleaning, etc. When you vaccuum a house, many of those chemical toxins end up in your lungs, nostrils and general respiratory tract, as well as on your skin and your eyes. They are then absorbed to your bloodstream and your liver and kidneys have to process many of them. Perhaps you could wear a cottonmask for blocking some of the dust you breathe in while doing this task, and see if it improves the issue. If it does, you could also add protective goggles and clothes that expose as little skin as possible, and avoiding makeup (which can make the dust stick to your skin more easily)
As a side issue, I'm curious as to where you are sourcing your raw coconut oil, since almost all coconut oils are actually cooked, even if they say they're not.
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My diet changes with the seasons (I live in Vermont, USA). Summers I eat more foraged plants and some purchased organic veg, including berries. Winters I am nearly carnivore, but do eat some root vegetables and sometimes rice and mushrooms. I am not totally raw, and do not try to be. I do eat a lot of raw foods, but also see value in eating certain cooked foods. I work out a lot, so worry I would have trouble getting enough calories if I only ate raw, which I find very filling. I struggle to eat more than 2,000 kcal per day when eating only raw foods, and ideally need to eat 2,500 kcal+ on workout days to meet my needs.
This is about exactly as I eat too, Eric! I too eat seasonal carbs in summer :) but I could do better with that.... Next summer I am going to add in a little more of them. Carnivore is just so easy for me to do, that is.
I can easily eat 3000 calories as raw carnivore. And I weigh only 55 kg. I can digest it just fine. But it might make me gain some weight. If I do around 2000 calories I keep the same weight. Me cooking is not the issue because I cant get in enough food raw, but rather because I cant always source fresh fish that I like raw. If I do not have osyters, that is. And in winter I have way less oysters because of the harsh weather.
How much red meat have you been eating, about, the last years? I have had at least a pound of raw beef or lamb every day. Often even more.
I think there is the issue.
Plus the sheep balls.
Plus not having my period much often anymore.
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Inger,
First of all, I think you are a very experienced and knowledgeable individual in the raw paleo lifestyle. I admire your courage in not being swayed by popular belief and in openly sharing a lifestyle that most think is dangerous to yourself and, to an extent, to those around you. Watching your videos and reading your posts always inspires me to continue pursuing this lifestyle, and your cheerful attitude often brings me joy on sad days.
However, I think here you may have been getting all worked up over something which may not even be an issue.
There are many reasons why a blood iron test can come up high, the main reason being if your diet is high in available iron, which it is. The question is not just about how much you absorb though, but how much your body stores and how much it eliminates, and why. It could be that your body has issues eliminating iron, but so far you seem to have little or no evidence that this is the case, other than a suspicion based not on real experience but on a lab test that could mean many things - and which even the doctors have no concerns about.
Some of your solutions to the problem seem fine and well - more seafood, less red meat could certainly be what's best for you.
I'm skeptical of the green tea being of help - this in effect works by impairing your digestion. Even if it works for the intended purpose, there are many side-effects of impairing digestion like that. Now if you enjoy green tea with your meals, and don't want to give it up, or perhaps you need the caffeine boost or want something warm to drink, that's another matter altogether, and I'm sure you can be healthy while including it. But to include it for health reasons seems counter-intuitive.
About blood donations, if you are doing this for humanitarian issues, that's fine and well. But to do this as a health practice seems bizarre to me. When you are injured and blood comes out, it hurts. Blood is designed to clot on contact with air so as to close the wound as soon as possible. Can you imagine paleo people willingly bleeding themselves on purpose and for enjoyment or as a form of medical practice? Bloodletting only came about in an age where most people were eating a very unnatural diet, based on grains, which would actually promote anemia. Even if bloodletting was an effective method for reducing iron in the blood, this would only be necessary if your body has a problem eliminating iron, since elimination is what you're doing. However, it seems to me that creating new blood, with the great nutritional and building requirements it has, simply for the sake of eliminating iron, puts a big strain on your body, and I believe it could in fact be much more likely to age you quickly. We know that things that destroy blood cells (as well as other cells), such as alcohol consumption, age us faster. Here you are technically destroying (or rather, eliminating) blood cells on purpose. While you don't have to deal with the cleanup of dead cells that would result from heavy alcohol consumption, you do have to deal with the big task of constantly replenishing your blood supply. Finally, all of that new blood requires iron to make. So when you do that, your body is more likely to hold on to iron. I would worry that continually doing this would set your body up for iron retention.
You said that you might have a genetic mutation for increased iron intake. When do you suppose this mutation came about? Scandinavian people aren't particularly known for a heavy grain dependence, since little grain can be grown there. If anything we would expect to find this mutation in people who relied heavily on grains and thus needed such increased iron absorption - therefore it would be most likely present mainly in people from northeast asia, and to a lesser extent india, the middle east and europe and central and south america.
About the vaccuum cleaning, it could simply be the EMF like you mentioned, or more likely still, the air you are breathing. House dust is not the same as dirt in nature. House dust is full of toxic elements that come off the walls, off all kinds of plastic and treated wood and paper; particles from all sorts of aerosol sprays including deodorant and even poison (bug spray), soaps and detergents and other chemicals used in cleaning, etc. When you vaccuum a house, many of those chemical toxins end up in your lungs, nostrils and general respiratory tract, as well as on your skin and your eyes. They are then absorbed to your bloodstream and your liver and kidneys have to process many of them. Perhaps you could wear a cottonmask for blocking some of the dust you breathe in while doing this task, and see if it improves the issue. If it does, you could also add protective goggles and clothes that expose as little skin as possible, and avoiding makeup (which can make the dust stick to your skin more easily)
As a side issue, I'm curious as to where you are sourcing your raw coconut oil, since almost all coconut oils are actually cooked, even if they say they're not.
Well,
do not ask me how that mutation happened, but it did. And it was in Ireland. Exactly where my ancestors come from.
This mutation also helped people survive when the black death came along. Because iron was hidden from the blood into the organs, people survived it. Because that bacteria or was it a virus(?) was feeding on iron!
So even if the blood does not have too much iron, it gets accumulated into the organs and bones(arthritis), and that is why it is hard to detect. There are many different degrees of it. And the mineral balance is so important too.
Donating blood is not dangerous as long as you follow up your blood values and eat nutrient rich food, which I do. So I am not at all worried. I have lots of energy. I feel like I have lots of "blood", enough to share... ;) :)
And it is mostly iron that is present in the blood, not other minerals. So it is the iron mostly that gets depleted, which I want.
I am confident that I am doing something good for me, and if it is not, I am not doing anything risky, I am under the doctors supervision, I can only give blood 4 times/year. Also I continue eating lots of animal foods raw, just not red meat, and if, very limited amounts.
I will do frequent blood testing too, to check where I am going. :)
PS. Bleeding is not a dangerous thing at all. People have always got injuries, and bleed, also women bleed through their period, and childbirth etc etc. Of course excess bleeding can kill you, but I am doing it very moderately - not doing phlebotomies on myself or anything like that ;)
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How much red meat have you been eating, about, the last years? I have had at least a pound of raw beef or lamb every day. Often even more.
Most of the meat I eat is red meat, mostly wild game (whitetail deer) mixed with pork back fat. I do not eat much actual meat, maybe a pound each day or a bit less. Most of my calories come from fat, or from acorns (I process acorns into flour and make a delicious, high-fat, high-fiber porridge from them).
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@littleelefant I don´t know which supplements he recommends. You might find that info on his website https://therootcauseprotocol.com/about/morley-robbins/ There is his facebook group as well called https://www.facebook.com/groups/MagnesiumAdvocacy/ for sure they would know it. But he also mentioned the castor pack precisely for people that can´t donate due to their weight limitation. Another way to circumvent this would be to do the blood donation in a non public environment, privately or even at home.
Then of course you always have to be careful of any supplemental recommendations of any of these health advocates. There is no "guru" that knows it all. For example..he recommends cod liver oil, something that can be very dangerous. There is no health advocate I know of that seems to be right in everything they say. Be it Aajonus, GCB, Garrett Smith, Morley, Shawn Baker, Sally K. Norton, Dr. Berg... Always use ur own brain before taking any kind of supplements. I do believe that nature can provide us with most if not all of what we need, if our senses are working well and if you are able to connect with nature and yourself.
@dario I would recommend listening to these 2 podcasts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nofRzKj0UgA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urk-i6RmSEI they give you a pretty good insight why iron is causing problems, why blood donation is good and how minerals such as copper first surfaced on planet earth.
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Well, many thanks norawnofun, now I have a lot to study.
i did my blood tests today and I asked the nurse to take a bit more blood then needed she was very gentle and to my surprise she drawed the double amount of blood, so I released 50 ml today and I feel a lot better already. it is not as much as the 500 Inger could give but it is a start. i recognised that the blood was thick and dark red at the beginning and lighter at the end of the donation. It is like the aderlass donation from the holly Hildegard von Bingen, it is still practiced here in in germany and i m considering doing it. It is a bit pricy though. There they let the blood flow out until it turns light in color . Normaly they take between 50 and 150ml
Friday I m getting my test results and I will get the ip6 tomorrow
I m courious
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Most of the meat I eat is red meat, mostly wild game (whitetail deer) mixed with pork back fat. I do not eat much actual meat, maybe a pound each day or a bit less. Most of my calories come from fat, or from acorns (I process acorns into flour and make a delicious, high-fat, high-fiber porridge from them).
Acorns? Wow.. that is interesting! I had no idea one could eat that :) Awesome :) How does it makes you feel, how does it digest?
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@littleelefant I don´t know which supplements he recommends. You might find that info on his website https://therootcauseprotocol.com/about/morley-robbins/ There is his facebook group as well called https://www.facebook.com/groups/MagnesiumAdvocacy/ for sure they would know it. But he also mentioned the castor pack precisely for people that can´t donate due to their weight limitation. Another way to circumvent this would be to do the blood donation in a non public environment, privately or even at home.
Then of course you always have to be careful of any supplemental recommendations of any of these health advocates. There is no "guru" that knows it all. For example..he recommends cod liver oil, something that can be very dangerous. There is no health advocate I know of that seems to be right in everything they say. Be it Aajonus, GCB, Garrett Smith, Morley, Shawn Baker, Sally K. Norton, Dr. Berg... Always use ur own brain before taking any kind of supplements. I do believe that nature can provide us with most if not all of what we need, if our senses are working well and if you are able to connect with nature and yourself.
@dario I would recommend listening to these 2 podcasts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nofRzKj0UgA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urk-i6RmSEI they give you a pretty good insight why iron is causing problems, why blood donation is good and how minerals such as copper first surfaced on planet earth.
I so agree on this! No one has everything right. We always need to think for our selves and try stuff out and use our intelligent amd listen to our bodies. We are all so different anyways, genetically, different climates, environments etc.
I have been looking into copper bioavailability and found some interesting stuff
https://www.rainbow.coop/library/copper-absorption-and-bioavailability/
https://paperity.org/p/95898724/copper-absorption-and-bioavailability
The article above said that rats got copper deficiency when fed raw meat. That was interesting.
And that cooking meat increases copper absorption. Okay we are not rats but it might be the same for humans. Who knows. Anyways it is very clear to me now that seafood is meant to be a large part of my diet :)
Also that ascorbic acid inhibits copper absorbtion. Wow... and there was a time I added ascorbic acid to my diet as a supplement because I thought it was a nice thing.. I did not notice anything though so I stopped it pretty fast. man that was not a great idea at all. Because it also helps iron absorption, thus increasing the mineral imbalance between copper and iron that I already had, and that anyone on a mainly muscle meat diet wil eventually suffer from I think....
I am looking into naturally increasing copper because I am not going to supplement it. It is way too risky for me. I do not like supplements anyways, when it is possible to get it naturally. If I eat lots of seafood and oysters, I have a beautiful and great amount of copper in my diet, nicely balanced with other minerals and bioavailable :) :)
I have been eating pretty much only seafood these last weeks for my protein, and I have to say it feels very right :)
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Acorns? Wow.. that is interesting! I had no idea one could eat that :) Awesome :) How does it makes you feel, how does it digest?
There is some processing involved. I have to leach out the tannins in the acorns. I have figured a way to do it pretty easily though. There are a lot of oak trees here, so it is a huge source of essentially free food that is high fiber, nutrient dense and calorie dense. The flour I make has about 500 kcal per 100 grams, which is much higher than the 340 kcal/100g in wheat flour. Most of acorns calories are from fat, especially monounsaturated fat.
I find acorns digest well and it makes me feel good. It is a wild, locally-derived food, so leaves me feeling connected to my local landscape. I am a man of the oaks. They sustain me.
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Wow.. Eric, I love that! We have tons of acorns here too... can you please share how you do it step by step so I can try it too?
I love local wild foods... they are just my favorite!
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I took my first dosis of IP6 yesterday, and today again. Fasted, in the morning, 1 hour before breakfast.
2 pills, as iot says on the package. That is about 1000 mg/day.
I think it was too much, it made me a litte dizzy. I will take only one pill tomorrow and see how it goes. After all I donated blood recently and I might need to go slow because it does not happen over night that my body pulls the excess iron from the organs into the blood. It is a slow process... takes weeks or up to 2 months until the iron is back in the blood, that is why you have to keep 2 months between donations.
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Wow.. Eric, I love that! We have tons of acorns here too... can you please share how you do it step by step so I can try it too?
I love local wild foods... they are just my favorite!
Sure, I wrote about the process I use on my website: A Tale of 100 Acorns (https://ericgarza.info/writing/100-acorns/). Let me know if you have any questions.
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Sure, I wrote about the process I use on my website: A Tale of 100 Acorns (https://ericgarza.info/writing/100-acorns/). Let me know if you have any questions.
Thank you Eric, awesome :) :) I am going to try that! Can I gather acorns now? Or do it have as they fall to the ground in fall? There are still plenty on the ground here...
How do you prepaire the ready flour, do you cook it into porridge, if, how long do you cook it for, or can one just soak it and eat it raw?
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If you see whole acorns, you can still gather them. Acorns from white oak species germinate in fall within weeks of dropping. If you want those, you have to gather them fast. Acorns from red oak species need to overwinter before they can germinate, so you have a much longer window over which to gather them. I might gather more in spring before the ground warms, since we had a huge mast year for them this year. I already gathered and processed about 30 gallons, and am about half way through the flour I made.
To make the flour into porridge I add 2 parts water and 1 part flour, bring the water to a boil and then turn the heat back and let the porridge steam on very low heat for about 15 minutes. Really though, you can eat acorn flour raw so you can cook it as little as you want. I will sweeten lightly with raw honey and top with fruit and a little raw goats milk kefir. It makes a very filling breakfast.
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Sure, I wrote about the process I use on my website: A Tale of 100 Acorns (https://ericgarza.info/writing/100-acorns/). Let me know if you have any questions.
So cool, thanks for sharing! Gonna try it out this year I guess.
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@ Inger
Yeah I would definitely go slow with the IP6 or even rethink it.
Because what I wonder about is: IP6 means phytic acid, and isn't that a chemical compound why grains, vegetables to a degree etc are considered unhealthy and people decrease it by fermentation, soaking etc? Because they are not binding exclusevly to iron, as well as zinc and many other important ones, right? All the minerals you would need to balance excess iron.
Also, in the end it is not a natural thing to supplement it. Could be harder to correct the damage caused by it than using the other methods to decrease iron. And I guess by donating blood + decrease dietary intake if iron + increase intake of copper + other changes you're already on a great way :)
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For me the main reasons I thought of an iron overload:
- I have on and off liver and pancreas pain, occassionally, short, not too bad, like a twitch and sometimes days or weeks in between without any. I already had prior to the diet. Sometimes got better, sometimes worse again. But since healing takes time, I just gave it some more time, not really bothered. Had a break of the pain for a month or so last November, it came back in a time when I ate more cooked meet than ever before.
- Also some on and off diabetic symptoms. Though these usually appeared when I for example included rice in my diet. I would pretty fast get vision problems, nerve pain, weight gain etc. Or sometimes having nerve pain from drinking freshly juiced organic oranges. I mean to some degree my body might have been sensitive to it because of longterm fruit and sugar etc restriction. But still, the degree to which I was sensitive to it, ws suspicous, especially because I suspected to heal on the diet, including the diabetic and pancreatic symptoms. On the other side, when eating a little bit of bread, potatoes, rice etc. several days in a row and I'd then get diabetic symptoms I didn't consider it too suspicious for a long time, because I knew from people in such forums, that they'd even react on such foods or vegetables immediately. But would they get diabetic symptoms? As far as I remember they rather get intolerance or digestive symptoms.
- The day I had the most pain was when I ate clay which is an iron bomb and raw beef heart, which is high in iron especially when taking its relatively low amount of copper and zinc into consideration, to balance the iron out. And that pain started bothering me.
- I didn't crave raw beef muscle meat since quite some time.
- And what I kind of use as my final proof (which I value higher than a blood test) is the following: Eating raw organs is not a big deal for me, I even sometimes really liked eating raw kidney, even when it wasn't that fresh and had a little unpleasent pissy smell. Anyway, (raw) spleen.. which is loaded with iron, I think it is most abundant there. I had a very specific disaffection when eating it. I mean I like the look, it reminds me of berry sorbet and blood mixture or so. Kind of asthetic. The texture is also nice. And still eating it felt weird. Tried it a few times, each time organic, grass fed, very fresh.
Back then I thought, well I don't have access to raw blood, shouldn't I be missing iron and therefore find eating spleen satisfying?
It was weird to me. And after a few months, liver pain getting worse (again), sleep getting worse (again) in a very particular way that I could distinguish from sleeping issues I had before and therefore couldn't solve like before. Occasional nerve pain, sometimes worse. Worse skin. And maybe sth else as well which I don't remember right now. Looking worse, of corse.
Puuh, that was pretty detailed, sorry.
Anyway, I decreased my red meat and organ consumption. Some raw liver for copper. The occasional liver pain / twitch is rare by now. Symptomwise it is bearable, I've been through worse, but looking bad and feel exhausted because of the terrible sleep.
I would love to donate blood, but I am in a foreign country at the moment and I am not allowed to donate blood here yet. In 6 months they say.. Only way might be getting to know a nurse or similar and doing it privately, haha. Or going to a doctor for blood work and hope he will do the right measurements but I can't be sure that he'd do so and I anyway don't consider blood work to be always correct. Too many involved factors and things we don't know about yet. Additionally I'd need to hope that he'd prescribe me to donate blood. But I can't even know for sure if my current health insurance would pay for all that. And at the moment I don't wanna risk spending all the money by myself without even knowing if the doctor would measure the right stuff or if the measures are valid.
Little bit annoying situation ;D
Might try the castor oil thing, though I don't understand how it should work if it is wrapped in plastic. Or did I get it wrong?
Otherwise just getting through it by lowering dietary iron intake. But might take very long. Let's see.
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Liver and pancreatic pain suggest a possible issue with congested liver, which can make elimination and balancing of excessive elements difficult. Previous to adopting the raw paleo diet over a decade ago, I had issues with liver congestion, which was likely brought on by eating the wrong foods. I tried liver cleanses, but found that unless one corrects the true causes, then such liver cleanses only temporarily placate the issue. I also went through a period of iron overload when I was younger and eating fortified foods, and taking multivitamins that contained iron(big mistake). I even donated blood a few times, but found it actually made me feel weaker and more fatigued. Now after ten years on a raw meat based diet my iron levels measured in hair, urine, and blood test are within what is considered the normal range.
My opinion is that issues like iron retention and liver congestion should resolve themselves in most cases without need of bloodletting or liver laxatives, as long as you eliminate the congestive foods, and nourish the body with a broad spectrum of raw animal nutrition, then balance should happen of its own
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@Susadele no, you didn´t get it wrong, thats how he explained it. I was also confused about the plastic wrapping, but the only way to find out is to try it.
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Thanks for the feedback.
I can also imagine that iron overload often occurs in a context of liver problems or unbalanced nutrition (not enough copper, B2 etc.).
For some people this website might provide further interesting science based information:
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/91/5/1461S/4597424
One information might be especially important for Inger: You said you'll keep eating egg yolks (without egg white as far as I understood you). There's a protein in the egg white which inhibits iron absorbtion. And as nearly all of the iron is contained in the egg yolk, I'd eat the whole egg in an iron overload condition.
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I would also add that commercial animal feeds are often fortified with inorganic forms of iron, which is basically iron filings, and this excess of inorganic iron concentrated in egg yolks or animal organs and tissues, may be more difficult for the body to mitigate.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hemochromatosis/symptoms-causes/syc-20351443
"Excess iron is stored in your organs, especially your liver, heart and pancreas"
Perhaps people who consume large amounts of liver, heart, and meat, especially from unnaturally supplemented animals may be at greater risk.
It also notes that there is a genetic component, and perhaps people with a certain heritage of living in iron poor environments had to develop a capacity to hyper assimilate iron from the limited dietary sources of the region?
I am not yet convinced that iron overload would be an issue for people following a (non supplemented) wild or pasture raised whole animal approach, that includes eating plenty of bone based minerals to balance and buffer any excess iron.
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Thanks for the feedback.
I can also imagine that iron overload often occurs in a context of liver problems or unbalanced nutrition (not enough copper, B2 etc.).
For some people this website might provide further interesting science based information:
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/91/5/1461S/4597424
One information might be especially important for Inger: You said you'll keep eating egg yolks (without egg white as far as I understood you). There's a protein in the egg white which inhibits iron absorbtion. And as nearly all of the iron is contained in the egg yolk, I'd eat the whole egg in an iron overload condition.
Susadele,
does cooked eggwhite still inhibit iron absorption?
I am doing the yolk raw for now and some whites cooked, not all though. I ditch some. I like to quickly sautee a big onion with herbs and maybe some mushrooms, just until a little soft, and then add the eggwhites and stir so it becomes a little like an omelette but was more onion and mushrooms that eggwhite. I pour some good quality olive oli on the top when ready. For vitamin E. And then I do the eggyolks raw.
My diet is right now looking pretty different than before christmas..lol
But it feels great and right. I just am going to eat mainly seafood until my next blood donation and the labs I am going to do after that to see how much I got my ferritine down.
Sure I did overdo it with raw muscle meat. I know. Probably I would not have run into issues if I had done bones with it. Like you do Derek.
After I get my ferritine down I am going to try out a different more broader approach, and also contonuing to doante blood so I can still eat lamb and Galloway :)
I do think heredity has a BIG impact in how much iron you absorb.
30% of my ancestors have extremely high iron absorption rate..... and it might be even more as this issue very often goes undiagnosed as doctors are often clueless what to look for. Also ferritine levels that are seen as "normal", "in range" are way too high, in reality.
My doctor said my vales were perfect! But they are way high.
I am going to get it down to maybe 30 or so, until then I am doing this strict regimen I do now
- IP6, donating blood as often as I am allowed to, no red meat but lots of seafood, oysters, herring etc. A little veggies here and there, more in spring and summer, as fat coconut oil and olive oil and eggyolks, some nuts. Lots of green tea, herbal tea, using herbs too. Raw sheep and goat cheeses for dessert to limit some iron uptake. Some dark chocolate/raw cacao. And regularly test my ferritine along the way.
Regular castor oil packs on my liver/belly :)
Also castor oil on face and neck (for wrinkles..;) )
Also other factors probably are at play. I think psychological stress will make your body do different things - as your organs and belly are not as relaxed having tons of emotional pain. Which is not good. I had tons of heart ache after my last relationship ended very abruptly. This might have had a big impact too.
Also that I easily over eat, being able to digest huge amounts of meat and fat... using it a little to feel comforted... and safe. Red meat makes me feel good and stable and gives tons of energy for sure. So I easily over ate it.
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Susadele,
does cooked eggwhite still inhibit iron absorption?
I am doing the yolk raw for now and some whites cooked, not all though. I ditch some. I like to quickly sautee a big onion with herbs and maybe some mushrooms, just until a little soft, and then add the eggwhites and stir so it becomes a little like an omelette but was more onion and mushrooms that eggwhite. I pour some good quality olive oli on the top when ready. For vitamin E. And then I do the eggyolks raw.
My diet is right now looking pretty different than before christmas..lol
But it feels great and right. I just am going to eat mainly seafood until my next blood donation and the labs I am going to do after that to see how much I got my ferritine down.
Sure I did overdo it with raw muscle meat. I know. Probably I would not have run into issues if I had done bones with it. Like you do Derek.
After I get my ferritine down I am going to try out a different more broader approach, and also contonuing to doante blood so I can still eat lamb and Galloway :)
I do think heredity has a BIG impact in how much iron you absorb.
30% of my ancestors have extremely high iron absorption rate..... and it might be even more as this issue very often goes undiagnosed as doctors are often clueless what to look for. Also ferritine levels that are seen as "normal", "in range" are way too high, in reality.
My doctor said my vales were perfect! But they are way high.
I am going to get it down to maybe 30 or so, until then I am doing this strict regimen I do now
- IP6, donating blood as often as I am allowed to, no red meat but lots of seafood, oysters, herring etc. A little veggies here and there, more in spring and summer, as fat coconut oil and olive oil and eggyolks, some nuts. Lots of green tea, herbal tea, using herbs too. Raw sheep and goat cheeses for dessert to limit some iron uptake. Some dark chocolate/raw cacao. And regularly test my ferritine along the way.
Regular castor oil packs on my liver/belly :)
Also castor oil on face and neck (for wrinkles..;) )
Also other factors probably are at play. I think psychological stress will make your body do different things - as your organs and belly are not as relaxed having tons of emotional pain. Which is not good. I had tons of heart ache after my last relationship ended very abruptly. This might have had a big impact too.
Also that I easily over eat, being able to digest huge amounts of meat and fat... using it a little to feel comforted... and safe. Red meat makes me feel good and stable and gives tons of energy for sure. So I easily over ate it.
Mhh I don't know for sure if cooked egg white would still inhibit iron absorption. I guess it decreases its ability a little, but since most people eat cooked eggs and the research usually adresses to such people, I guess there is still some iron inhibiting properties left in egg white after cooking. If I were you I'd research on it.
What do you think of what I wrote about the IP6?
The link I provided states that olive oil increases iron absorbtion.
By the way your breakfast sounds great! Inspires me to try it out as well.
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I only mention the effects of olive oil and egg white to bring awareness to natural methods of lowering iron instead of potentially harmful methods. I am not promoting to take rigidly care to consume 0 iron.
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Susadele,
I hve now increased the IP6, and take 2 in the morning and 2 in the evening on empty belly. After the initial odd feeling, lightheaded, a little anxiety, the first 2 times, I have had zero issues anymore. In fact I feel really great.
I am going to continue taking 2000 mg/day and see how it goes. A week or so before donating blood next time I am going to stop it though. In 3 weeks, about. I might skip a day in between here and there too, read that could be a good idea.
I have been researching a lot about side effects of it but nothing I read has made me worried in my particular situation.
I have free access to as many oysters as I want, and they are full packed with minerals, so I eat them and they will replenish what I need I guess. Also seafood is a perfect food for balanced minerals. I rather have a small deficit in some mineral for a short while, than lots of excess iron making my organs rust.....
This is not for life time, but only until I get my ferritine down to about 30. The more i read about iron the more convinced I am that it is a very bad thing to have too much of. Just people do not talk about it much.
Dangers with a raw omnivore diet is, if one eats mainly fruit and raw meat, you might soon get way too much iron!
Fructose increases iron absorption, and then raw meat also is powerful for increasing iron in the body.
This can be a dangerous combo. Not need to be, but I would go and follow up regularly with ferritin/transferrin tests. Testing do not hurt.
Maybe that is why Halal meat was invented, and the odd rules that blood should not be consumed. Maybe it was to prevent iron overload.
Massai tribe who do drink raw blood, mix it with milk, and the calcium in milk prevents the iron absorption.
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I only mention the effects of olive oil and egg white to bring awareness to natural methods of lowering iron instead of potentially harmful methods. I am not promoting to take rigidly care to consume 0 iron.
True, natural way is always best! I do that too. But I want it down faster. So I do IP6 too as long as I do not notice any bad effects. I am trying to be really aware of my body signals :)
If I would get phlebotomy I would choose that but doctors here does not order it except your ferritine is sky high. So I am not even going to ask. I go and donate blood instead, takes a little longer but in one year and 4 donations I will be at my goal.
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Susadele, what are your diet looking like lately? Have you been raw omnivore or carnivore last years, how long? How much meat did you consume, about/day?
Are you still having your period regularly, if, do you have greater or lesser blood loss?
Iron overload can send you into early menopause.
I wonder if that happened to me. My perimenopause symptoms started at maybe 41... with less regular periods. Now I have had a period only every three months or so last year or two. Had some sweating. Hot flashes. Overheat easily. No more overheating since stopping red meat and doing my iron lessening protocol.
Too much iron heats your body up too much.
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Hey Inger,
good to hear you're doing better!
I can't heally describe my diet, since it changed a lot lately mostly due to social reasons (was working and living on a farm where I partly adapted my eating to some shitty food available). But some things I can say about the last ~ year: My appetite for raw meat decreased, I started eating cooked meat occassionally, then I usually ate it cooked, at times a quite high amount of raw heart because it did me well in the beginnings of raw paleo but didn't notice when it didn't really help anymore in these amounts. For a year or so I nearly ate no plants, just some occasional fruit or vegetables /salad stuff for social reasons. Stopped it though because I started enjoing plant foods. And also because in the summer I got insane insomnia, which I was only able to solve with carbs in the evening like fruit. Some experiences where I noticed I need more plant food than I thought.
Also what I forgot to mention: For three months I used clay to brush my teeth, didn't get any problems with it teethwise, but damn it is freaking high in iron. And I used it every day, some of it accidentally swallowing. I also washed my face with it. With that I put myself in a high iron environment, so to speak.
It might have been too much iron for my damaged liver to handle.
Anyway, I feel better now with taking care of iron consumption.
Anyway, some downwards symptoms started before using the clay. But could have been anything else. I am not worried though, because so far raw paleo / primal etc has been an up and down learning adventure for me, full of needs to adapt / change sth. After the iron issue, there is sth else to come, haha. I'll probably figure it out one day.
I still have my period, though the last three years I had a so called too short monthly cycle (it began before raw paleo / primal), and I was able to get a longer cycle by adding carbs and or cooked meat.
You read that elevated iron levels heat up the body?
Since raw paleo / primal / increasing animal products I have no longer problems with cold weather. I heard this from a few people with similar eating habbits and the opposite from vegans. Anyway, unfortunately I also developped a low tolerance towards heat in the summer.. Could be because of iron? Or simply another issue. I'll see how it goes the upcoming summer when iron is lowered.
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Yes if you have high iron it is very possible it makes you hotter.
I also had a stressed(inflamed) feeling in my heart sometimes when taking longer hot showers, and iron can accumulate in the heart as well.
That feeling in the heart I describe above I have not had since I work on lowering my iron.
I wash my hair with ghassul clay since 10 yers or more, also my face. But I think the amount of iron varies in different clays? I tried to google it but could not find anything, except red clay might have high iron.
What sort of clay did you use?
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I guess too that clay types vary in their iron content.
Nevertheless, since it is more or less the same material, I could imagine that they all are high in iron. In the internet iron is listed as one of its main components. Though I don't know if it is referred to all clays.
On the other side, I don't know about the exact chemical form of iron in clay and its bioavailability. There are even contradicting theories on if clay (and earth in general) is a good dietary iron source or if it even inhibits iron absorbtion.
The clay that I ingested, but only rarely, was Terramin clay. I don't have it with me now but I think the recommended daily serving had 1000% of the iron RDA. Luckily I only used it with breaks in between. The day last month I had the most pain in my liver area was when I ingested the clay and later on raw beef heart. Anyway, since there are many people using it more often (though probably not very long term), it might work without major issues.
The one I used daily for skin and teeth for 2-3 months was french green clay. Even if it might not as high in iron as the Terramin, I still used it daily and let it absorb through my mouth for several minutes a day.
Regarding your Rhassoul clay: It is sometimes called red clay as well. But I don't know if I'd be worried if I used it only for hair and short skin washes (if the iron is absorbed at all).
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Thanks Susa.
I am going to continue washing my hair with Ghassul because I really love it! But not going to let it sit on my skin, just rinse it off immediately.
I just realized I have been bathing in iron water for more than 6 years.
I have a rainbarrel I fill with water from the well on this property, it has too much iron to drink it. I take a hot shower and immediately get out and dip a minute or two in it. I do this practically every day. How much iron have I absorbed through my pores through these years! Oh man. How did I not think of this??
So many pieces to the puzzle.
I am going to fill the barrel with tap water, cost a little bit, but is very good quality here.
I am so glad I learned that iron absorbs through the skin.
I read studies about African tribes that get cancer on their feet soles because they walk barefoot on iron rich soil.... Imagine. Iron is a very potent poison when too much. Who would have thought.
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Damn..good you found out. And luckily still early enough.
Lifelong learning..
I only read about african tribes getting iron poisened by brewing beer in iron pots.
If you have your study by hand which says there are some who got it through walking in iron rich soils, please share it with me.
A little bit offtopic, but: Unfortunately Rhassoul clay made my hair frizzy, I liked how easiliy it cleans the hair though!
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Here's what you wrote a few years ago:
"Re: GCB:Eating meat regularly is harmful to health
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2014, 05:22:56 pm »
Quote
Fun is good for health for sure lol
I should be dead by now eating huge amounts of meat for years and years...lol
but I feel better and better instead.... ? it is almost scary ;)
it could be the nipple stimulation tho.... :o who knows?"
It's best to remain humble and open minded.
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You can just donate your blood at regular intervals to reduce excess iron.
I believe the high iron accumulation is the result of our body trying to compensate for the lost blood when an animal attacked us during the paleo times?
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People come and go. Most of the moderators here have long since stopped posting, but the forum owner never bothered to replace them. Facebook has pilfered much of people's time. It is easier to use than a clunky forum like this, and offers one-stop social media engagement, so to speak.
Tried googling "raw paleo diet facebook" - didn't find any groups?
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as fat coconut oil and olive oil and eggyolks, some nuts.
May I ask you how much coconut oil do you consume per day?
When I consume coconut oil, it starts giving me diarrhoea.
Are you taking no animal fat anymore?
I remember, you also told us that you also use coconut oil (or crushed coconut). And you wrote that you consider consuming coconut an important step in your diet. May I ask you to please explain us why coconut oil is important? Thanks.
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I eat raw coconut about one time a week - I take it apart and drink the water and eat the meat, usually with about a cup of pineapple. Aajonus recommended the combo of pineapple and coconut cream for gallbladder stones and it has been helping me a lot for that. Plus the coconut feels nourishing and hydrating to me.
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I remember, you also told us that you also use coconut oil (or crushed coconut). And you wrote that you consider consuming coconut an important step in your diet. May I ask you to please explain us why coconut oil is important? Thanks.
He does not consume coconut oil. And coconut oil is almost never raw, even if store bought, unless you make it yourself. He eats low temp ground coconut butter, because he uses it as his main source of carbs. It´s the only carb food he eats, at least until recently. I tried all methods for consuming coconut..
- just the juice, way too sugary
- the whole piece, very hard to digest due to the fibre, allthough I love eating it
- raw flour from the juiced coconut which is extremely agitating as it´s pure fibre, the worst
- flour you can buy at the store, which had the highest carb content and is ultra processed
- homemade coconut butter with my raw coconut, first I cut it in pieces, put for a couple of seconds in the blender, then leave it on a tray out in the sun for a day, then put it in the blender (not food processor) until it becomes butter, which takes quite a while. I measured the temperature due to the high rotation speed, and it was still considered raw. That contains everything, the fat, the oil but also the fibre, which I found problematic if you have an irritated gut lining.
- homemade coconut butter with store bought shredded coconut, problem here the shreds were processed and heated, but you can make butter out of that quite easily if you put it in a blender.
- raw coconut cream AV style (homemade with slow juicer), incredible taste, not too sugary, contains the raw oil plus the fat, little to no fibre (if you juiced a sun exposed coconut that was out in the sun for a couple of hours).
- store bought coconut cream, processed and too sugary
- coconut milk (UHT) that sometimes becomes a solid piece if the temperature is right. I find that the second best although its heated and processed. Some brands are more buttery then others but if you get a good one its a solid piece of fat, that melts amazingly in warm drinks (its heated already anyway), great against constipation.
The only thing on coconut I didn´t try and won´t bother making is coconut milk and the oil itself. So if you don´t mind the sugary taste, higher carb count and fibre go for homemade or store bought raw coconut butter, if you prefer a less sweeter taste go for raw juiced coconut cream, if you just want the fat, although heated, you can try the solidified coconut milk, and that I only found in cans. shake it and if you don´t hear any liquid it solidified. But..it´s UHT, in a bpa can..so..
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He does not consume coconut oil. And coconut oil is almost never raw, even if store bought, unless you make it yourself. He eats low temp ground coconut butter, because he uses it as his main source of carbs. It´s the only carb food he eats, at least until recently. I tried all methods for consuming coconut..
- just the juice, way too sugary
- the whole piece, very hard to digest due to the fibre, allthough I love eating it
- raw flour from the juiced coconut which is extremely agitating as it´s pure fibre, the worst
- flour you can buy at the store, which had the highest carb content and is ultra processed
- homemade coconut butter with my raw coconut, first I cut it in pieces, put for a couple of seconds in the blender, then leave it on a tray out in the sun for a day, then put it in the blender (not food processor) until it becomes butter, which takes quite a while. I measured the temperature due to the high rotation speed, and it was still considered raw. That contains everything, the fat, the oil but also the fibre, which I found problematic if you have an irritated gut lining.
- homemade coconut butter with store bought shredded coconut, problem here the shreds were processed and heated, but you can make butter out of that quite easily if you put it in a blender.
- raw coconut cream AV style (homemade with slow juicer), incredible taste, not too sugary, contains the raw oil plus the fat, little to no fibre (if you juiced a sun exposed coconut that was out in the sun for a couple of hours).
- store bought coconut cream, processed and too sugary
- coconut milk (UHT) that sometimes becomes a solid piece if the temperature is right. I find that the second best although its heated and processed. Some brands are more buttery then others but if you get a good one its a solid piece of fat, that melts amazingly in warm drinks (its heated already anyway), great against constipation.
The only thing on coconut I didn´t try and won´t bother making is coconut milk and the oil itself. So if you don´t mind the sugary taste, higher carb count and fibre go for homemade or store bought raw coconut butter, if you prefer a less sweeter taste go for raw juiced coconut cream, if you just want the fat, although heated, you can try the solidified coconut milk, and that I only found in cans. shake it and if you don´t hear any liquid it solidified. But..it´s UHT, in a bpa can..so..
Thanks a lot for the detailed reply.
How much of coconut cream/milk do you consume and if you consume on daily bases? Do you ever get diarrhoea from it?
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If I am able to juice raw coconut cream, which can sometimes be problematic due to temperature changes (don´t leave the coconut in the sun, then off then on again), or due to an already spoiled coconut (even the best looking coconut can be spoiled inside), or simply because it´s not warm enough outside (heating up in the oven did not really work), I usually consume maybe 2-3 tablespoons of it. Once I juice one or 2 I usually eat that stuff daily. And it ferments quickly. After a week, even if you seal it in a air-tight jar in the fridge, the taste can change and it can get rancid slowly. So sometimes its better to juice one coconut at a time. AV recommended adding lime juice for preservation. I never did that. Alternatively, the solid heated coconut milk fat blocks I consume almost every day, because I recently broke my juicer, so I can´t do the coconut cream, which sucks ass. I usually consume the coconut cream or coconut milk fat with mixed berries, sometimes including ground hazelnut or 100 % dark chocolate with zero additives. If you eat too much of coconut cream/milk you can get diarrhoea, so if you have that already you might want to be careful, if you have constipation that mentioned mix can do wonders, especially when you just drink black tea and coconut milk fat together.
I was looking for an alternative fat option aside of animal fats, because I stopped consuming raw dairy which caused way too many issues. I found my substitute in raw coconut cream and fatty dark chocolate in small amounts. I experienced that animal fats, avocados, olives and nuts sometimes won´t cut it, I think the reason for that is that coconut fat does not need HCI to be digested, so if you have issues with HCI production, for whatever reason (candida, h.pylori...), coconut fat can be your saviour.
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"I was looking for an alternative fat option aside of animal fats, because I stopped consuming raw dairy which caused way too many issues. I found my substitute in raw coconut cream and fatty dark chocolate in small amounts. I experienced that animal fats, avocados, olives and nuts sometimes won´t cut it, I think the reason for that is that coconut fat does not need HCI to be digested, so if you have issues with HCI production, for whatever reason (candida, h.pylori...), coconut fat can be your saviour."
That's cool.Fatty dark chocolate is a new one on me though :)
I mix my coconut milk/cream with raw cacao or cocoa powder(just because i like it).
Taste great,feels good,healthy(in my experience anyway)what else can you ask for? ;)
Note:I was using raw honey for a while with coconut milk/cream,but the fructose was doing a number on me,so I terminated that experiment.
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I was looking for an alternative fat option aside of animal fats, because I stopped consuming raw dairy which caused way too many issues. I found my substitute in raw coconut cream and fatty dark chocolate in small amounts. I experienced that animal fats, avocados, olives and nuts sometimes won´t cut it, I think the reason for that is that coconut fat does not need HCI to be digested, so if you have issues with HCI production, for whatever reason (candida, h.pylori...), coconut fat can be your saviour.
WOW.
I believe I have big issue with Candida, but didn't know that it effects the HCI. But for sure animal fat/olive never helped me.
I do get diarrhoea from coconut oil, but it breaks the constipation for me and I found out that it coconut oil works better for me than animal fat/Olive oil.
Dark Chocolate is an important tip too.
What could be else done against the Candida and about the HCI production?
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That's cool.Fatty dark chocolate is a new one on me though :)
I mix my coconut milk/cream with raw cacao or cocoa powder(just because i like it).
Taste great,feels good,healthy(in my experience anyway)what else can you ask for? ;)
Note:I was using raw honey for a while with coconut milk/cream,but the fructose was doing a number on me,so I terminated that experiment.
I have to be careful not too eat too much. Sometimes just 2 pieces are enough to give me great focus, clarity and digestion. I guess the caffeine content is one of the main reasons for that, maybe also improved digestion due to the amount of magnesium. Another positive I see is that it´s very soft and easily digestible. If I eat too much I get a headache though. But one major downside of very dark chocolate, especially cocoa powder is that it´s extremely high in oxalates. One suggestion to not absorb too much of an oxalate food is to eat a calcium or/and magnesium rich food with it. But I generally stay away from cocoa powder, which is never raw btw. I prefer 100 % dark fatty chocolate, which consists of cocoa mass (around 50% cacao and 50% fat) + fat only. Another thing to consider is that chocolate is always produced by roasting the beans (that´s how it´s traditionally made anyway). There is one exception of a brand that makes unroasted "raw" chocolate, but thats a super exception.
I would also be careful not to mix honey (high carbs) and fat together, it can cause issues.
WOW.
I believe I have big issue with Candida, but didn't know that it effects the HCI. But for sure animal fat/olive never helped me.
I do get diarrhoea from coconut oil, but it breaks the constipation for me and I found out that it coconut oil works better for me than animal fat/Olive oil.
Dark Chocolate is an important tip too.
What could be else done against the Candida and about the HCI production?
Candida lowers my HCI since years, took me ages to realize that. But I find that another major culprit, if not the major culprit is EMF. Whenever I´m close to a turned on oven, or close to a turned on cooking top, things go nasty. Wifi and laptops do damage as well. Initially I thought its mold, turns out it´s not. I think people focus too much on only their nutrition, but if you have health issues, that even after dietary changes could not solve, you need to look into EMF, that is magnetic fields, electric fields and radio frequency. I recently bought a good EMF meter and it opened my eyes BIG TIME on how surrounded I am by radiation. It´s crazy how much certain things emit. The difference between normal incandescent light bulbs and led bulbs is huge, aside of the fact that they are fucking up your eyes, and can do some other nasty things as well.
Either way, your question what can be done is vast. I tried a trillion things, and got a bit smarter by the years. First I would say change your diet to eat as much raw foods as possible, especially if you fucked your pancreas with alcohol, with the least anti-nutrient content, that is lectins, PUFAs, oxalates, too much vitamin a and so forth. Some people do better with plant foods some without. That is individual. Some people do great on keto and ZC, some better with more carbs. I think in the end what matters most is eating as much raw as possible. Raw meat, dry aged meat, raw low glycemic, low oxalate fruits including berries, and maybe some fake vegetables that actually are fruits, such as tomatoes, cucumbers, bell peppers (high in vitamin c), raw corn (good for HCI)..it seems the more raw bacteria that you indigest, the more it can balance out the candida yeast, even raw fruit seems to work. A keto diet can make candida worst for some people. The more you overload your body with living foods, the more they take over the "bad guys". Candida seems to like feasting on heated carbs, starches and the like. Stay away from foods high in estrogen, candida can feed on that. So out of the window with dairy IMO, regardless if raw.
Second most important I believe is fix the EMF. Get a good EMF meter. I found this video helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4WT5c7GXA0, go through your place and spot the issues. Sometimes people sleep shit for years until the realize that there are EMF sources above and below them. I think EMF causes an aggrevation and possible die off from candida, so fixing that is priority before you only focus on diet. EMF can also fuck up your thyroid, which is immensely important. Then you need things to protect against it. I´m currently experimenting here, but after doing some digging and self experimentation I realized that shungite is great. Even for enhancing plant growth it can be used. I got a pendant and since using it my mood went from lethal while being in the kitchen to far better. The aggression that candida can cause is incredible, especially in combination with EMF. A tensor ring could work too, so does the qui-pendant. Still experimenting though.
I think the fastest way to heal is go into the woods in a cabin, with zero EMF and eat raw foods. Or go to a real ayahuasca ritual with a indigenous shaman, if you are mentally stable and take no meds. I could suggest a million things that might work against candida and HCI, but I think the above 2 are the most important. Mold can also be an issue for some people.
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But I generally stay away from cocoa powder, which is never raw btw. I prefer 100 % dark fatty chocolate, which consists of cocoa mass (around 50% cacao and 50% fat) + fat only. Another thing to consider is that chocolate is always produced by roasting the beans (that´s how it´s traditionally made anyway). There is one exception of a brand that makes unroasted "raw" chocolate, but thats a super exception.
I would also be careful not to mix honey (high carbs) and fat together, it can cause issues.
I use both raw cacao powder and regular cocoa(not raw)powder.Two different things.Two different tastes...etc.
I'm not a stickler for 100% raw,especially when it's only a teaspoon or so.
Do you use "baker's chocolate" for your fatty dark chocolate?
I've used baker's chocolate before and found kind of too hard,and it didn't mix well with my coconut milk concoction:)
In terms of honey,I don't use it at all anymore,so it's all good.
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Second most important I believe is fix the EMF. Get a good EMF meter. I found this video helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4WT5c7GXA0, go through your place and spot the issues. Sometimes people sleep shit for years until the realize that there are EMF sources above and below them. I think EMF causes an aggrevation and possible die off from candida, so fixing that is priority before you only focus on diet. EMF can also fuck up your thyroid, which is immensely important. Then you need things to protect against it. I´m currently experimenting here, but after doing some digging and self experimentation I realized that shungite is great. Even for enhancing plant growth it can be used. I got a pendant and since using it my mood went from lethal while being in the kitchen to far better. The aggression that candida can cause is incredible, especially in combination with EMF. A tensor ring could work too, so does the qui-pendant. Still experimenting though.
Fascinating information about EMF. I have already bought Shungite pendant with 98% Carbon (12 gm stone). It took me hours to read and then to buy it, but I am happy I completed this task while I have very disturbed sleep and illnesses despite taking almost 75% raw food.
What do you think about Faraday Cage sleeping canopy as protection against EMF?
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I use both raw cacao powder and regular cocoa(not raw)powder.Two different things.Two different tastes...etc.
I'm not a stickler for 100% raw,especially when it's only a teaspoon or so.
Do you use "baker's chocolate" for your fatty dark chocolate?
I've used baker's chocolate before and found kind of too hard,and it didn't mix well with my coconut milk concoction:)
In terms of honey,I don't use it at all anymore,so it's all good.
As far as I know there is no such thing as "raw" cacao powder. All the labels that I see say raw, but most, if not all are heat processed. I think there is a lot of misconception what is truly raw, especially with dairy or coconut products. Same goes for the distinction between cacao and cocoa. Unless you contacted the producer regarding the temperature used to process the product, or it´s stated already on the website, I would not trust any "raw" label. Another thing would be the cacao butter. What you get in the health shops is yellow butter in the form of nibs or a whole block of butter. But that´s not how real cacao butter looks like. When it´s yellow it has been desodorized/filtered. The real butter is dark like the chocolate itself. Another interesting variety is ceremonial cacao, but that´s another story altogether. Anyhow, im not here to judge, eat whatever you like. I had a look at the bakers chocolate, never got that, not available here and tbh I would never get it in the first place. Something that just states "chocolate" as an ingredient in their 100 percent chocolate product, and the fact which corporation is standing behind it, being non organic as well, would all put me off.
Fascinating information about EMF. I have already bought Shungite pendant with 98% Carbon (12 gm stone). It took me hours to read and then to buy it, but I am happy I completed this task while I have very disturbed sleep and illnesses despite taking almost 75% raw food.
What do you think about Faraday Cage sleeping canopy as protection against EMF?
Firstly I would highly recommend watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oggnOVI3Q_8 if you want to know the different kinds of EMF and how to measure them, save it too, many things are being taken down from yt lately. Yeah, I spent a lot of time researching shungite as well. There is some very interesting stuff concerning this material. Moving into the sphere of energies and understanding them can be very fascinating and helpful at the same time. I have a faraday net over my router, and it does work, although when measuring the frequencies that are still being emitted it´s still too high. But it might work as a sleeping canopy, since you are not emitting the signal yourself. Unless you have strong electric fields and the like under or close to your bed. In that case I would add additional things, not only shungite. There are certain devices that seems to be able to create protecting fields. https://www.facebook.com/groups/713944828952438/ is a good place to learn more. And again, suck up as much info as you can. Certain groups have been taken down by fb already. Also, magnesium seems to be protective against EMF, and so is Ascoric Acid, so Vitamin C. Maybe that´s why I was craving chocolate so much..who knows.
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I eat raw coconut about one time a week - I take it apart and drink the water and eat the meat, usually with about a cup of pineapple. Aajonus recommended the combo of pineapple and coconut cream for gallbladder stones and it has been helping me a lot for that. Plus the coconut feels nourishing and hydrating to me.
Can you please elaborate on AV's recommendations for gallstones?
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Firstly I would highly recommend watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oggnOVI3Q_8 if you want to know the different kinds of EMF and how to measure them, save it too, many things are being taken down from yt lately. Yeah, I spent a lot of time researching shungite as well. There is some very interesting stuff concerning this material. Moving into the sphere of energies and understanding them can be very fascinating and helpful at the same time. I have a faraday net over my router, and it does work, although when measuring the frequencies that are still being emitted it´s still too high. But it might work as a sleeping canopy, since you are not emitting the signal yourself. Unless you have strong electric fields and the like under or close to your bed. In that case I would add additional things, not only shungite. There are certain devices that seems to be able to create protecting fields. https://www.facebook.com/groups/713944828952438/ is a good place to learn more. And again, suck up as much info as you can. Certain groups have been taken down by fb already. Also, magnesium seems to be protective against EMF, and so is Ascoric Acid, so Vitamin C. Maybe that´s why I was craving chocolate so much..who knows.
I have downloaded the video and learnt a lot. Also joined the Facebook group and have to read a lot.
Thanks a lot.
After watching video, I have changed my sleeping place and went to that corner of the flat, where I could completely cut out the electricity and there is almost no WIFI signal there (luckily). Hope to have better sleep here. I will update shortly about my sleep here.