Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Exercise / Bodybuilding => Topic started by: sven on January 28, 2010, 01:10:51 pm
-
~~~~This is for beginning weightlifters who want to gain weight~~~~~
December 23rd -154lbs- January 27th- 161lbs
I gained 6 pounds in a month. During this month I began eating raw paleo for the first time in my life. I don't know how much of it is muscle and I don't really care. I've always been skinny and now I am finally gaining weight after 4 painful years of minimal gains...
Background-
Age 18- 135lbs
Age 19- 145lbs eating bulking SAD diet
Age 20- 145lbs eating bulking SAD diet
Age 21- 154lbs eating anabolic diet/cooked paleo diet with carb loads on the weekend(made good gains)
Age 22- 154lbs......
a few days away from Age 23- Already 161lbs
Diet-
http://www.podfeed.net/episode/Super+Human+Radio+Show+-++420+Raw+Food+As+Effective+As+Anabolic+Steroids+In+Building+Muscle/2241597
This radio interview inspired me to try RAW
At LEAST 8 RAW EGGS A DAY(taste like nothing)
1 POUND RAW BEEF CHUCK(taste great)
WALNUTS
APPLES
BANANAS
RAW MILK
RAW CALF LIVER TWICE A WEEK
RAW OYSTERS
RAW CELERY JUICE/BROCCOLI/CARROTS
COOKED CHICKEN
EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL(by the tablespoon)
RAW GROUND BEEF(taste like shit)
SEARED FISH(as much as I can afford)
AVOCADOS
This is all I've eaten in the last month, everything is grass fed, fish is farm raised, on saturdays I eat shit SAD food for social reasons, on sundays I eat cooked food during my job. During the week its all raw baby!
Things I've noticed- explosive energy, massive sex drive(I binge drink on the weekends and even when I'm drunk that shit shoots straight up!!!), Never dehydrated anymore, food does not weigh me down, I had barley any facial hair and now there is significantly more haha I didnt wanna admit that but hey fuck it, have to cut finger nails every 2 days, skin looks way better(darker color tone), lots of other little things but mostly I care about my strength gains.
I am stronger than I have EVER been. Being stronger means more muscle. I follow a VERY simple workout ONCE A WEEK. No more than 20 minutes in the gym. SQUATS/DEADLIFT, BENCH, SHRUGS.... that's it people.
Stop spending hours in the gym doing curls and bodyweight exercises. LIFT HEAVY, REALLY HEAVY. It doesn't matter how much you can lift as MUCH AS YOU ARE LIFTING 90-95% OF YOUR MAX. I believe with my new diet and pushing myself to lift HEAVY WEIGHTS ONLY allowed me to gain 6lbs faster than I have ever done in my life before. You should get a partner to spot you on certain exercises or you won't be able to truly max out. and guys once a week is enough... Think if you carried a cow back home for dinner once week and made massive muscle gains because the damn thing weighed 1,000 pounds why would your body not hold onto that muscle until the next week. Trust me don't go to the gym 3 days a week thats useless. BE PATIENT WAIT A FULL WEEK FOR MUSCLE RECOVERY. I promise by the end of the 6th day you'll be so pumped and ready to lift again you will see your strength soar!!!! don't forget to change your program every six weeks.
pics and workout log below
-
1/26/10 SQUAT 5X185, 3X185, 10X225
BENCH 5X185, 2X195
1/19/10 SQUAT 3X185, 3X205, 6X225
BENCH 2X155, 3X185, 2X195
FREE SHRUG 11X200
FREE CURL 10X70
1/11/10 SQUAT 5X135, 5X185, 6X205
BENCH 5X135, 3X185, 3X185
FREE SHRUG 12X190
12/26/09 DEADLIFT(fail) 25X185
SHRUG(fail) 28X185
-
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/jan27.jpg)
and jan 27th
-
I took only one measurement by the way and my arms are 0.4inches bigger. Most of the weight probably went to my legs and chest
-
I love your enthusiasm :o
-
oops I left out my reasoning for taking a full week off after a good workout. You can google the supercompensation graph, take a look at that. When you workout you will become sore for the next 1-3 days. Even up to 4 depending on how hard you workout. The General Rule here is that your body needs to FIRST recover from exercise, once it recovers it will SUPERCOMPENSATE. So you must FIRST recover. My rule is the day you are no longer sore you have RECOVERED, but not SUPERCOMPENSATED, so you must take 2 extra days off to supercompensate. Example, you workout on monday, are sore until thursday, you should NOT!!!! workout until saturday or sunday, even monday is ok. I take a full week off just to be sure. Good luck hope you guys make some gains.
-
Exactly the same thing stanley bass states, 72 year old ripped body builder, fitter then most 30 or 40 yr olds lol
He exercises once or twice a week for only 15-20 minutes
& he's ripped to boot
Hiit is ridiculously efficient at building muscle
I would however, recommend you only ingest the following once or twice a week, or get rid of completely as theyre deleterous & create degeneracy cycles, ie prevent muscle growth
WALNUTS APPLES BANANAS
BROCCOLI/CARROTS
AVOCADOS
& the Cooked Chicken, something you should most definitely get rid of
Replace the Eggs, with fertilised eggs, from cockerel run farms
You should also add & replace the above with:
Bone Marrow, suet, & sweetbreads, make sure the sweetbreads include thyroids & raw animal fats taken from around the organs, ask your butcher or farm in advance for them
With the above, You should put on muscle & mass alot faster then you are now
I'm in the process of doing the above
-
Exactly the same thing stanley bass states, 72 year old ripped body builder, fitter then most 30 or 40 yr olds lol
He exercises once or twice a week for only 15-20 minutes
& he's ripped to boot
Hiit is ridiculously efficient at building muscle
I would however, recommend you only ingest the following once or twice a week, or get rid of completely as theyre deleterous & create degeneracy cycles, ie prevent muscle growth
WALNUTS APPLES BANANAS
BROCCOLI/CARROTS
AVOCADOS
& the Cooked Chicken, something you should most definitely get rid of
Replace the Eggs, with fertilised eggs, from cockerel run farms
You should also add & replace the above with:
Bone Marrow, suet, & sweetbreads, make sure the sweetbreads include thyroids & raw animal fats taken from around the organs, ask your butcher or farm in advance for them
With the above, You should put on muscle & mass alot faster then you are now
I'm in the process of doing the above
Roony,
Your advice is sparking my interest and enthusiasm. I will be asking my butcher first thing tomorrow where I can find these items. For bone marrow do you actually buy the stuff or can you just break open the bones? Thanks for telling me to get rid of the chicken I've been wanting to eat it raw and no one in my life is helping out so I need the encouragement. Everyone going to Chico State are a bunch of pussy close minded shitsheads. Can you elaborate on the degeneracy cycles? Do you have any other Topics or posts that you give out information on? Thanks man
-
http://www.musclehack.com/the-arms-blast-experiment-the-results/
This small experiment got me thinking about the recovery process for building muscle quick.
The point of this article is to show that after the 5th day of recovery the participants finally Packed on muscle. I have also read Dr. Dardens High Intensity Training book cost me about 20 bucks at Barnes and Nobles. This book stresses the importance and explains the science behind recovery.
Using these guidelines has helped me pack on muscle quick as I mentioned earlier
-
Wow. 1x a week? You're a pussy! ;)
Ok sure do heavy weight lifting 1x a week but atleast cardio on the other days. Jeez, I'm training like 13x a week and I'm gonna try to tone it down to see if I get more gains that way but I'm gonna continue doing daily cardio.
-
The reason I'm not doing cardio is because doing deadlifts and squats are so taxing on the body that I need all the recovery I can get. Since adding pounds is my goal (as much muscle as possible but I wouldn't mind a 1:1 ratio of fat muscle) I cut out the cardio it seems to just stress me out more. Let me know if you obtain some gains from resting more, I would recommend at least 5 days off from everything. But if you must then continue the cardio but I don't believe that your body needs exercise everyday, take a rest. Try weighing yourself before and after 5 days. Look forward to hearing
-
Aight, will do.
I am excited to see how this'll go. I am in pretty amazing shape right now but definitely having a hard time gaining weight muscle and weight, so it'll be interesting to see whether low rep high rest will do the trick.
-
Are you doing aerobic or anaerobic cardio because in the long run aerobic cardio gets you nothing.
-
i buy marrow bones from slankers and it is surprisingly delicious.. you just get the leg bones and scoop the marrow out. to me, with a little salt, it tastes pretty similar to butter
Roony,
Your advice is sparking my interest and enthusiasm. I will be asking my butcher first thing tomorrow where I can find these items. For bone marrow do you actually buy the stuff or can you just break open the bones? Thanks for telling me to get rid of the chicken I've been wanting to eat it raw and no one in my life is helping out so I need the encouragement. Everyone going to Chico State are a bunch of pussy close minded shitsheads. Can you elaborate on the degeneracy cycles? Do you have any other Topics or posts that you give out information on? Thanks man
-
Wow. 1x a week? You're a pussy! ;)
Ok sure do heavy weight lifting 1x a week but atleast cardio on the other days. Jeez, I'm training like 13x a week and I'm gonna try to tone it down to see if I get more gains that way but I'm gonna continue doing daily cardio.
If he is trying to gain mass, cardio is the last thing that he wants to go. He should be strictly lifting. He also needs to be in a caloric surplus. If you are eating raw, you should be consuming anywhere from 4000-500 calories per day to refeed your muscles adequately.
-
Aight, will do.
I am excited to see how this'll go. I am in pretty amazing shape right now but definitely having a hard time gaining weight muscle and weight, so it'll be interesting to see whether low rep high rest will do the trick.
Sounds like your overtraining if your going 13x + per week. If you want to put size on, training each muscle group 1x per week to failure is best, with 5-7 days rest before working it again. a good 3 day split would be
Monday: Chest, shoulders, triceps
Wednesday: Legs, Abs, Lower back
Friday: Back, Biceps
Take weekends off and repeat the following week.
Eat lots of quality raw foods and watch your body change.
-
Aight, will do.
I am excited to see how this'll go. I am in pretty amazing shape right now but definitely having a hard time gaining weight muscle and weight, so it'll be interesting to see whether low rep high rest will do the trick.
Even though it's still early, I'm quite happy with the results I've been getting. My strength is increasing and I think my size is aswell. Still to early to tell
I've also cut down my work out time and I make sure I don't overwork my muscles every gym session.
Before I would train every muscle group till total failure. On chest day it'd end so I wasn't even able to do 1 push up. Now I just train for a shorter time but with higher intensity.
-
Even though it's still early, I'm quite happy with the results I've been getting. My strength is increasing and I think my size is aswell. Still to early to tell
I've also cut down my work out time and I make sure I don't overwork my muscles every gym session.
Before I would train every muscle group till total failure. On chest day it'd end so I wasn't even able to do 1 push up. Now I just train for a shorter time but with higher intensity.
Good deal, train smart, not hard.
-
Glad to hear its working out for you. I'm currently switching my previous diet over to mostly organs and suet with less muscle meat and much less fruits. I will be writing an update to let you guys know how much more muscle I put on.
-
It's been a little while... I tried eating more organs but had a few overdose toxicity issues eating too much liver and kidneys. Currently eating half a pound of liver and half a pound of kidney weekly which suits me just fine. I added suet and marrow as rooney suggested before, can't say I was too crazy about it. I found that too much fat usually gave me a fever. I do enjoy the variety of fats in my diet however, but I guess I never realized how calorie dense and potent these fats were. So maybe half a handful of marrow/suet and the rest from muscle meats such as beef chuck or egg yolks is plenty of fat for me in a day. Raw butter mixed with Raw honey while I eat beef has become habit. I switched my cooked chicken to raw chicken which tastes great. Now for the muscle building progress....I still cook foods on the weekends for social reasons.
I originally stated that going once a week was enough for me but that has changed because I am recovering far faster than I was on SAD. So I was sitting at the same weight of 161 for a couple months. I changed my workouts and everything but nothing was working. I figure I was getting too much recovery time which can break down the body and prevents new tissue growth. So I started going twice a week starting 3 weeks ago. I am up 3 pounds, up to 164 and it is consistent... so basically I am gaining a good pound a week which is fantastic!
Currently doing Squats, Deadlifts, Weighted Pull ups, Dips, Dumbell Shoulder Press, and Dumbell Chest Press, Also work out arms for the hell of it. I still believe in Brief workouts with heavy heavy HEAVY weight. So twice a week I'm basically in and out. Once I hit around 167-170lbs I'll post some pics to update the old ones.
How's everyones progress going?
-
Forgot to mention basically cut the fruits out... maybe 1 or 2 a week and it has really made a difference in energy levels. eating Fruit and raw meat seems to really fuck up digestion.
-
If you eat it together yes.
But my theory is that your body takes some time getting accustomed to eating fruit.
My first 2 weeks of eating fruit was bad. Stomach pain, itchyness etc. Now all that's disappeared and I feel great eating fruit.
-
Well... I said I'd wait till I get to 170ish to post pics but ya know what? I have lower bodyfat and bigger muscles, so I'd like to show my progress. Again I am 5ish pounds away from my goal.... to refresh your memories I'll post the old pic from January first then a pic from today.
I owe 80% of my gains to The Raw Paleo Diet and all the people on here. Let me know how you guys are doing :)
-
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/jan27.jpg)
-
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/CIMG0017.jpg)
-
keep going.
it'll be nice to see before and final after pictures.
are you a hard gainer? or can put on weight easily?
-
Definitley a hard gainer. I stand 6 feet tall and had an average weight of 150 for many years. My dad stays around that same weight, so basically tall and skinny build. It can be frustrating because some of my friends eat crap and don't work out but they still appear to have larger muscles than I do, although they are in no way as strong as I am. However I'm having second thoughts about calling myself a hardgainer anymore with the results I've been getting with my diet.
-
i'm extremely hard gainer as well. so frustrating...
i did manage to gain 5lb over the last 6 months. hopefully i will continue to gain pounds. i think i should limit fruits as well.
-
I've always been thin/had a hard time putting weight on, but seem to be able to put on muscle ok...maybe with a bit more effort than others.
my problem with raw seems more to be what the reverse body-type would want, I get full really fast and don't otherwise get hungry. If I boost my activity I do tend to eat more but not necessarily on par with the whole calories-burned theories.
on the positive it seems like if I do manage to pack in the cals through great effort, my body will respond with gains, its just alot more preferable to not do that. I can remain more or less stable around 2k on raw, which I guess is another plus for my height/activity.
-
What kind of foods do you guys eat and how much? 5lbs in 6 months is a fair amount of weight :) lol you could go to the supermarket and look at 5 lbs of meat and that is a lot of body tissue! One of my favorite things to do for gaining weight is eating a handful top raw round lean steak(15-20g of protein) with 1-2tbsp of raw butter/honey between meals. So basically I'll eat Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner(say tuna, chicken, oysters, pork)... and between all of these snack on the the top round steak... you could even snack on smaller amounts(10-15g). I've found this to help with the hunger issue that you get KD. It seems that when I eat a Big meal to try and put on weight it is counter productive it just satisfies my hunger for longer periods of time and I can't get enough calories in. I heard a good interview on superhuman radio and they talked about not needing to eat more than 20g of protein in a meal because if you go over that the remainder of the protein isn't used for protein synthesis but used for energy, you would of course need to add fat to the 10-20g of protein you consume ENSURING that it doesn't get used as fuel(my favorites are raw butter/honey, egg yolks, olive oil).
my problem with raw seems more to be what the reverse body-type would want, I get full really fast and don't otherwise get hungry. If I boost my activity I do tend to eat more but not necessarily on par with the whole calories-burned theories.
-
The part about only using 20g of protein per meal is most likely false. If it were the case, then those that eat once a day (which are quite a few) would be dead pretty quickly. Now, whether spreading out your protein intake over the course of the day is going to lead to more protein synthesis than gorging in one meal is another issue.
-
. Now, whether spreading out your protein intake over the course of the day is going to lead to more protein synthesis than gorging in one meal is another issue.
This is exactly what I was trying to say
-
The part about only using 20g of protein per meal is most likely false. If it were the case, then those that eat once a day (which are quite a few) would be dead pretty quickly.
Why would they be dead?
-
Well, if you eat once a day and are thus only synthesizing at most 20g of protein per day and the rest of dietary protein is converting to glucose/fat then you will not be able to meet your body's minimum repair requirements and you will atrophy pretty quickly. Don't you think 20g of protein per day is pretty low? And wouldn't you think there would be a huge difference in muscle size for those who eat once a day vs those who eat multiple times per day (especially for those who lift heavy weights)? I haven't seen a reported difference and I gained plenty of strength eating just once a day. So, the statement you heard is most likely incorrect.
I can make an argument for your statement being true though. In long term starvation studies, the body wastes about 25g of protein per day - mainly from muscle tissue. Much of this is used to turn into glucose for proper brain function. Also, in studies, any carbohydrate intake during starvation will spare protein, though the ceiling is pretty low. I think the benefit from anything more than 15g of carbs is not significant. So, maybe we can only synthesize a small amount of protein during every meal.
Also, eating meals more often unfortunately will not simply give you more muscle. If the body thinks the muscle is repaired enough to achieve good health its not going to keep adding to its size.
-
Well put. I'll try to go back and listen to the interview see if theres any truth to this and post the link from superhuman radio. The problem with this is half their links are broken. Hopefully we can dig a little deeper into this. So far I can only speak from my experience.
-
What kind of foods do you guys eat and how much? 5lbs in 6 months is a fair amount of weight :) lol you could go to the supermarket and look at 5 lbs of meat and that is a lot of body tissue! One of my favorite things to do for gaining weight is eating a handful top raw round lean steak(15-20g of protein) with 1-2tbsp of raw butter/honey between meals. So basically I'll eat Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner(say tuna, chicken, oysters, pork)... and between all of these snack on the the top round steak... you could even snack on smaller amounts(10-15g). I've found this to help with the hunger issue that you get KD. It seems that when I eat a Big meal to try and put on weight it is counter productive it just satisfies my hunger for longer periods of time and I can't get enough calories in. I heard a good interview on superhuman radio and they talked about not needing to eat more than 20g of protein in a meal because if you go over that the remainder of the protein isn't used for protein synthesis but used for energy, you would of course need to add fat to the 10-20g of protein you consume ENSURING that it doesn't get used as fuel(my favorites are raw butter/honey, egg yolks, olive oil).
Interesting to compare to a 5lb slab of chuck.
I'm pretty much at the same height/weight. heres a pic from 5 weeks ago: http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/journalistica/msg33405/#msg33405
since then I lost over 7 lbs. and now according to the scale am back to where I was (was even up to 170 apparently) but still look a little thinner in my face and body, so its a mystery to me where this stuff goes. I have been working out less, and lost most of the weight basically water fasting and massively under-eating afterwards so I guess that is why it came back so quick.
Mostly my 2 meals consist of ~1/2 lb of muscle meat (on occasion more w/o added fats)with some kind of fat or combination of fats from marrow, suet or raw butter. For awhile I was using pork fat but I think that made me ill. Sometimes I eat seafoods and poultry as well, but less so than I used to purely on $ and taste reasons. to gain weight I've been doing a cucumber/cellery/parsley/cilantro juice with 6 eggs in the morning (this is a real appetite killer) not to mention my 'morning' is still like 12-1pm (I get up around 10 at the moment). so I don't even have my first real meal around 1-2 pm at the earliest.
I think you are right about the meal frequency, but this is pretty much what I meant about not wanting to be on some kind of weight gaining regiment. When I start back working a regular schedule, I might snack more here and there. The other thing that has been helpful (although I don't plan on sticking with it) is drinking 1/2 gallon of raw milk a day or more. some days I've had eggs at the end of the day as well.
by the end of next week I should finally have a decent stock of both suet, marrow and butter, so I'm going to try and do lower protein again.
-
Interesting to compare to a 5lb slab of chuck.
I'm pretty much at the same height/weight. heres a pic from 5 weeks ago: http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/journalistica/msg33405/#msg33405
since then I lost over 7 lbs. and now according to the scale am back to where I was (was even up to 170 apparently) but still look a little thinner in my face and body, so its a mystery to me where this stuff goes. I have been working out less, and lost most of the weight basically water fasting and massively under-eating afterwards so I guess that is why it came back so quick.
Mostly my 2 meals consist of ~1/2 lb of muscle meat (on occasion more w/o added fats)with some kind of fat or combination of fats from marrow, suet or raw butter. For awhile I was using pork fat but I think that made me ill. Sometimes I eat seafoods and poultry as well, but less so than I used to purely on $ and taste reasons. to gain weight I've been doing a cucumber/cellery/parsley/cilantro juice with 6 eggs in the morning (this is a real appetite killer) not to mention my 'morning' is still like 12-1pm (I get up around 10 at the moment). so I don't even have my first real meal around 1-2 pm at the earliest.
I think you are right about the meal frequency, but this is pretty much what I meant about not wanting to be on some kind of weight gaining regiment. When I start back working a regular schedule, I might snack more here and there. The other thing that has been helpful (although I don't plan on sticking with it) is drinking 1/2 gallon of raw milk a day or more. some days I've had eggs at the end of the day as well.
by the end of next week I should finally have a decent stock of both suet, marrow and butter, so I'm going to try and do lower protein again.
Seems that you have a good program worked out, I'll have to read through your journal sometime soon. You don't look too much like a hardgainer
Here is the interview on superhuman radio with Doctor Stuart Phillips on amounts of protein to stimulate protein synthesis. Please give it a listen and tell me your thoughts. :)
make sure to click download episode that way you can skip through the commercials
http://www.superhumanradio.com/components/com_podcast/media/mp3s/SHR_Show_468.mp3
-
What kind of foods do you guys eat and how much?
i eat about 70-80% raw meat/fat/organs and 20-30% PANU style mostly bone broths and some fruits.
i do not know how much i eat, i do not measure it. i eat when i'm hungry 2-3 meals per day, and stop when i feel pretty full.
so far the weight is very slowly going up. i'll post pictures when i get to the 10lb gain.
-
Seems that you have a good program worked out, I'll have to read through your journal sometime soon. You don't look too much like a hardgainer
I don't know if their is much positive to glean from my journal, mostly its just me bitching about stuff.
I've been working out for well over 10 years now so that factors in, and while I've attempted to change by diet for the positive/raw for 5 years, and some approaches have been debilitating/emaciating, there seems to be some underling muscle memory of sorts. I know if I had to really bulk up, like Will Smith in Ali or something, if would be excruciating...or to become AV fat. I have some substance in that pic but it takes tons of effort to maintain and build on, more so than it should on meat/fat diet IMO, although I'm also probably at a point where I need to do actual weight bearing exercise than the body-weight stuff I do.
I also eat organs like heart, tongue and liver, but not frequently. I eat a variety of red meats like buffalo, and now getting 100% grass/forage finished lamb and goat.
I'll check out the interview, I had listened to some stuff about raw on that station before which were good to hear.
-
I was wondering if anyone has had any problems/knowledge of raw egg producing vitamin A deficiency?
And also, Is it not really beneficial at all to include much plant matter in your diets, apart from the muscle building?
That is the one thing I've been having trouble with is the strictly carnivorous diet.
-
Don't have any knowledge of the vitamin A deficiency... According the the nutritional facts on eggs there is a good amount in them. I only eat the egg yolks now.
I have started eating a couple more fruits a day ( by themselves without meat) it is a great muscle building tool. I only eat a select few such as bananas, walnuts, few apples, and some celery juice. Coconut oil is great when not eaten alone. As redfulcrum stated in one of his crazy topics:: Carbs are natures steroids. Apart from muscle building? I probably wouldn't eat many plant foods at all. 10% fruits is a good way to go according the opinions of many carnivores.
-
On a good note I've hit 167lbs. Can't wait to post pics once I hit 170. Home stretch baby!
Is there a way to move this topic to journals or should I just keep it here?
-
I have started eating a couple more fruits a day ( by themselves without meat) it is a great muscle building tool. I only eat a select few such as bananas, walnuts, few apples, and some celery juice. Coconut oil is great when not eaten alone. As redfulcrum stated in one of his crazy topics:: Carbs are natures steroids. Apart from muscle building? I probably wouldn't eat many plant foods at all. 10% fruits is a good way to go according the opinions of many carnivores.
In an average sort of day, could you tell me when you might eat the different foods? e.g. fruit ~1hr after getting up, and again a few hrs later, meat ~8hrs after getting up. Or whatever. I'd just like to know how you use the fruit, as I could never really figure out how to use it.
-
Wake up - drink cod liver oil
10 minutes later- 2 bananas
20 minutes later- breakfast- 1 pound raw steak
5 minutes later - breakfast - 5 egg yolks mixed w/ lemon juice maybe some raw honey
2 hours later - half pound of cooked turkey with 2tbsp coconut oil
30 minutes later - apple/walnuts
2 hours later- half pound of cooked ground beef- 2 tbsp olive oil
2-3 hours later repeat of breakfast, adding 2 bananas after the steak
milk before bed
I find that eating the fruit directly after eating the meat works ok, if you wait 20-30 minutes even better.
Bananas always seem to work, apples don't mix well with other foods, avocados don't work for me at all... lemons work after meat has been eaten first.
I have not experimented very far with other fruits.
I always add 2tbsp of either coconut oil, olive oil, almond butter, or beef tallow to each meal(currently given up on raw butter) so I can hit my calorie goal of around 4200kcal. and of course egg yolks to the steak.
sorry if this is all confusing, contradicting, or unorganized its been a long day at work. Let me know if you need more info
-
Alright, I'm 1-2 pounds away now... those extra pounds aren't going to make a difference
I will try to match up before and after pics, sorry for the lighting differences, angle differences, and distance differences,(differnet cameras used because I broke the older one) I am not a professional photographer... BUT anyone can see there is a difference in my body composition minor picture differences or not. Even Tyler might be impressed(lol jk), also I'm more tan.
unfortunately I am not comfortable showing my legs where a good amount of weight has been added due to squats/deadlifts- sorry guys
More importantly I am proud of my progress, very ecstatic knowing that I've gained weight(be it fat, glycogen, muscle, or water), as previously mentioned I had a major problem bulking with SAD. Thanks to everyone.... I started this thread to inspire muscle seekers here and to inspire myself, I hope I have accomplished that.
New goal- 180lbs :)
before pics are posted first, then following with an after pic. The before pics were taken september of last year weighing 150-155, the new pics were taken tonight(july) 2010 weighing 168-170ish
-
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/before%20after%20170lbs/before4.jpg)
</br>
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/before%20after%20170lbs/after4.jpg)
-
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/before%20after%20170lbs/Before1.jpg)
</br>
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/before%20after%20170lbs/after1.jpg)
-
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/before%20after%20170lbs/Before5.jpg)
</br>
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/before%20after%20170lbs/after5.jpg)
-
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/before%20after%20170lbs/Before2.jpg)
</br>
(http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz182/sduerigen/before%20after%20170lbs/after2.jpg)
-
Whew! time for an 10 egg yolk/ 2 lemons /1 tbsp honey shake!
-
nice progress.
unfortunately I am not comfortable showing my legs where a good amount of weight has been added
i wish i had this problem, i have well developed upper body and chicken legs. i'll start working on them soon.
get a tripod, it is much better to take pictures of yourself to track progress.
-
As you get older you'll put muscle on easier. I find it easier now than ever although I've been eating raw meat for four years (wow! time flies)
You look around 22-24 years after 25 it's easier.
-
Awesome progress man! Keep it up and you will hit your goal of 190lbs!
Here is a pic of me at 193lbs
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f231/Ouchburns/2879692orig.jpg)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f231/Ouchburns/noname.jpg)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f231/Ouchburns/2.jpg)
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f231/Ouchburns/004.jpg)
-
Nice Bro! Were you previously underweight or overweight? How tall do you stand?
looks like I got some catching up to do :D
-
Nice Bro! Were you previously underweight or overweight? How tall do you stand?
looks like I got some catching up to do :D
Used to weight 320lbs bro! Did most of my cutting on a cooked low carb regimen, those pics were taken after about 6 months of eating stricly raw low carb.
Im 5'10"
Youll get there man, the only thing stopping you is time when you are eating primal!
-
Awesome reults, how long have you guys been lifting?
-
Hey sven you stopped eating raw? how come?? Im trying to bulk too.. didnt think you can bulk without some carbs..
-
Hey sven you stopped eating raw? how come?? Im trying to bulk too.. didnt think you can bulk without some carbs..
Don't know where you got that idea, I'm still eating raw you bet. I do eat carbs: bananas, honey, lemons, almond butter... and others. gaining weight without these would be very difficult
I get about 4,000kcals a day. 1000-1500kcal from protein, 500-1000kcal in carbs, and 2000-2500kcal from fat.
Also more progress has been made, my arm measurements are climbing... full progress report in about a month or so. I can't believe I'm STILL growing! awesome diet :D
-
yeah bud im doing the same thing..
What im wondering though is, since you are getting that many carbs, are u still burning fat for energy?
Also, do you notice you are putting on any fat?
Are you drinking raw milk? How much a day?
Do you seperate your diet, like you dont eat carbs/fat same meal, etc..
Thanks so much for the help...
So far my new diet is going to revolve pretty much around yours:
Pasture raised egg yolks
Rib eye steaks
NY steaks
Organ meat once in a while
Marrow bones
almond butter
bananas
honey
milk
What sup with the lemons? any reason you use em?
-
For only 4 workouts, that is pretty good. But I have built 10-13 lbs of muscle in 6 weeks while I was raw vegan (actually beegan, lots of bee pollen), but I lifted 2-4 times a week, but I changed up the muscle groups so that I could still supercompensate. And my abs were visibly more defined so I know I lost fat. Problem with being vegan was when I started to cut (foolishly), there is such little protein in the diet that I immediately lose muscle mass. It sucks. Now I think someone posted here they gained 10 lbs in a week, that is extraordinary, and is something I'm looking to do on this diet
-
yeah bud im doing the same thing..
What im wondering though is, since you are getting that many carbs, are u still burning fat for energy?
Also, do you notice you are putting on any fat?
Are you drinking raw milk? How much a day?
Do you seperate your diet, like you dont eat carbs/fat same meal, etc..
Thanks so much for the help...
So far my new diet is going to revolve pretty much around yours:
Pasture raised egg yolks
Rib eye steaks
NY steaks
Organ meat once in a while
Marrow bones
almond butter
bananas
honey
milk
What sup with the lemons? any reason you use em?
I have put on what seems to be an equal amount of muscle, muscle gylcogen, water, and fat. I have not noticed an increase in my bodyfat percentage, now that the subject has been brought up I'll go get you some exact numbers.
As far as using fat for energy basically anything you give your body it will use for energy. I give it a lot of fat for calories, so it uses fat. During my workouts I surely burn sugar for fuel. The carb numbers I gave you is around 500-1000kcal per day of carbs, which comes to around 100-200g carbs per day. Keeping carbs under 100 keeps bodyfat in check, even though I already have enough trouble putting on fat.
unfortunatley I've given up on raw dairy, just doesn't work(bloating diharhea) even when I add honey or let it warm up for 24 hours before consuming, I just have to accept the fact that dairy ain't gonna work for me. If it worked for me I would surely drink half a gallon of milk per day.
I like to eat protein and fat in a meal, then 10-15 minutes later eat carbs.
for example 1 pound of steak with cod liver oil, then afterwards 2 bananas
lemons I mix with egg yolks, for taste, and security because I've contracted 2 campylobacter infections from drinking crappy eggs(grocery store bought=bad idea)
what's your height and weight? any goals other than bulking? workout experience? what's your calorie intake?
your diet looks awesome
-
For only 4 workouts, that is pretty good.
I've surely worked out more than 4 times... if you were talking to me lol
-
Thanks man, im trying to bulk.. im 5"10, 160lbs or so now.. My workout will include once a week of heavy exercises, basically one warm up set, then next set i go to max..
Ive tried this in the past and its way better than doing 100s of reps at low rates, i built muscle fast in the past with this kinda stuff..
I am actually lactose intolerant, and 1oz of milk gives me the runs, but guess what? today i drank 1 gallon raw milk so far, and felt great, no bloat etc, you sure you were drinking raw milk??
So you basically try to get fat into every meal.. cod liver oil.. olive oil.. etc.. whatever, basically just get fat in every meal?
-
Yep that's pretty much the story, get in that dietary fat. sounds like you got it down. Definatley go for the egg yolks and raw animal fat as well. Coconut oil is awesome, olive oil, raw butter, cod liver oil.... if you are worried about fat gain then I wouldn't mix the fat with carbs. Keep us updated on your progress.
I used HIT training a while back, works as an excellent shock. These days I'm more into sarcoplasmic muscle:
http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/38-articles/52-why-all-muscle-was-not-created-equal.html
-
do you just down the olive oil by spoonfull?
i dont like taste of butter too much.. only fats i like are animal fat and avocado..
coconut oil is strong.. how do you get the fats in? do you mix em with the meat or just down it
-
Are you still making progress? whats your squat/bench/deadlift at currently?
Try not to fall into the "only one way to train" mindset that most people, including me, have fallen into just to eventually realize there are many...many...many ways to roads to getting big and strong.
I will say you are in the vast minority if you are making decent gains training 20 minutes per week though. Although they say if it aint broke don't fix it.
Good luck!
-
Sorry if I didn't specify in this enough earlier, I have changed my training drastically since I started this topic. About 2 months into my raw training I changed it up, started eating more fat/organs and less fruits. Didn't work great for me. Went back to eating muscle meats, fruits, and pleanty of fats running around 4000kcals a day.
I also switched training to about 3 times a week(plus more volume), more if I have the energy. Split it up doing deadlifts one day, chest and back on other days, arms as well.
These last 2 months of bulking I've focused on chest, back, and arms. Sorry for any confusion.
Squats, Deadlifts, and Bench have increased little since the start of this topic. Like I stated earlier, I am focusing on sarcoplasmic muscle. Size and not functional strength anymore
once again here is my deal : http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hale6.htm
Are you still making progress? whats your squat/bench/deadlift at currently?
Try not to fall into the "only one way to train" mindset that most people, including me, have fallen into just to eventually realize there are many...many...many ways to roads to getting big and strong.
I will say you are in the vast minority if you are making decent gains training 20 minutes per week though. Although they say if it aint broke don't fix it.
Good luck!
I basically change my whole routine every two months, basically cycling strength and volume. I never let my strength phases last more than 6 weeks or I will fatigue too greatly. Then volume training takes over, and so far its working great to confuse my muscles.
-
do you just down the olive oil by spoonfull?
i dont like taste of butter too much.. only fats i like are animal fat and avocado..
coconut oil is strong.. how do you get the fats in? do you mix em with the meat or just down it
I use a tablespoon measurements, usually take in two tablespoons per meal of coconut or olive oil. coconut oil/almond butter I mix with a banana or it hurts my stomach. Olive oil is mixed with water, I let it sit in my mouth for a good minute so my digestive juices can get on it, it helps.
If I do mix the plant fats with meat I eat the meat first, then the olive oil/coconut oil after.
it's hard to get the combinations right, but becomes habit once you get it down
I started making great progress when I actually kept track of my calories, then the rest was cake. Remember for bulking it's TARGET BODYWEIGHT X 25 calories, so in your case if you wanted to become 170lbs, its 170X25=4250.
I always found avocado and steak with lime, and a little pepper was delicious.
-
Forgot to mention I made tallow once from frozen meat because I didn't think it was safe to eat. It worked out great for me, it was pig fat from slankers. I know a lot of people here are against it but if it wasn't so expensive and limited, plus time consuming to make I would eat it all the time. Mixing it with lean redmeat of course.
-
how do u get enough calories without milk?
Also for an example can u tell me what u ate today?
-
Yessterdays food
1 pound steak, 5 egg yolks, 1 lemon , 2tbsp honey = 1500kcal
1/2 cup walnuts snack = 350kcal
2 chicken thighs +2tbsp cod liver oil = 800kcal
1/2 pound of ground venison +2tbsp olive oil, 840kcal
2 bananas with 2 tbsp almond butter and 2 tbsp coconut oil snack = 560 kcal
5 egg yolk with lemon + 2tbsp honey = 425kcal
Total calories = 4475 Total carb calories = 560kcal which equals 12% of yesterdays total calorie intake. These are accurate calculations as I always use measuring spoons to eat and weigh my meats just to be sure I'm getting enough
-
Not to be critical, but which software or web lookup are you using for the calories per g/oz?
from my experience lean grass-fed or wild meat can be as low as 5-600 per lb (with ground meats ~ 10% fat being in the 7-800 range) and whole large eggs ~ 850 cals per dozen. Likewise a whole lb package of chicken thighs is in the same range I believe or less depending on their diet.
-
nice.. one question.. do u ever eat the meat and eggs together,
also do u have any special diet pre/post workout? like do u try to get the carbs in before exercise, vice versa
-
Also "2 bananas with 2 tbsp almond butter and 2 tbsp coconut oil snack :
is that a recipe? do u mesh all of them together or something??
-
For most of my meat it is not grass fed, but grainfed without hormones/antibiotics, basically raised naturally with a crappy diet. Still a better choice than the supermarket crap.
Here is what I use to calculate for example, I eat about 2 pounds of raw top round everyday or every other day
http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-beef-round-top-i13208
Eggs are calculated from the farmer I get them from
Oil calories come from the carton
raw almond butter comes from the carton
raw honey is calculated from the container
lemons are estimated
bananas are estimated
-
I'll just eat a banana and take spoonfulls of the almond butter and coconut oil, no special preparation, I'm far too lazy
I really like the banana and oil snacks, they are one of my best tools for keeping the body anabolic. I cannot afford to go too long without eating or I will lose muscle. Gotta stay anabolic
MRZ I would recommend you get as many foods as possible into your diet, after all variety is the spice of life. I have developed food intolerances to certain foods because I ate them too much. It's really crucial that you switch up your diet every now and then
As you can see my diet has changed A LOT since the start of this topic. Still is changing.
If you start feeling tired and fatigued, and are not growing, it could be something as simple as you are eating too much of the same food.
-
which of the meats in ur list do u eat raw, and which ones do u cook?
-
All raw baby...
but...
I go out to eat with my friends about 3 times a week. Social reasons ya know
-
Yo KD, I don't consider myself a hardgainer anymore the gains are really coming in quick now. I noticed that if I eat big, then sleep immediatley after a workout the gains come on a lot faster. Also resting a little more in general helps. I know a lot of people don't have this luxury though.
Do you still consider yourself a hardgainer?
-
Just out of curiosity, for those of you bulking...
How much rest do you get? Sleepwise, leisure?
I find that it is incredibly hard to bulk on a regular 8 hour a day sleep schedule.
When bulking it I need at least 9-10 hours a day, not including naps.
Naps usually last an hour, overeating helps get a great nap in.
If I'm not sleeping for at least 10 hours I will lay in bed awake for that long. For example if I only sleep 8, I'll lay in bed for an extra 2 hours.
is anyone else paying close attention to their resting schedule? anyone have any good strategies?
-
Yo KD, I don't consider myself a hardgainer anymore the gains are really coming in quick now. I noticed that if I eat big, then sleep immediatley after a workout the gains come on a lot faster. Also resting a little more in general helps. I know a lot of people don't have this luxury though.
Do you still consider yourself a hardgainer?
good to hear the gains are comming quick my friend, ultimately the numbers at that point don't really matter once you know what level is the 'breaking point' for weight gain. The GF round usually has 0 external fat and lower cals overall so I was indeed basing on that. I was expressing my own woes as much of anything that any non-pure-fat animal foods are actually quite low as usuable energy. These days I'm consuming little protein 1 lb max of lean and 0-12 eggs and the rest pure fats. I eat fruits really sporadically and minimally, but I like your system for future consideration. As for the hardgainer thing, I consider myself lucky in some regards these days because I'm not really consuming that much food and seem to hang in there despite upping my activity and intensity greatly.
I'm not exactly bulking but I've sort of shifted my stategy and goals in many regards. I thought I had a great frame for adding a bit of mass, but I'm focusing more these days on bringing my whole body up to speed and flexibility etc...so i can build evenly when appropriate. I'm becomming more vascular which I think is a good sign of my overall tissue change. Right now most of these efforts are concentrated in the cross-fit I'm doing and the biking I use for transport. In the winter I'll probably nix going to cf on the other side of town and join a Gold's which is right by my house and hopefully employ what I've learned into pure strength training and less endurance stuff, and be otherwise more inactive and lazy.
I think the term applies still in that if I wanted to put on serious mass fast, it would be pretty challanging on a raw VLC diet, but I think my body has indeed changed from when I was probably around your age, in terms of ability to put on weight with less effort.
I don't know if I am resting more with activity, but rest has played a major role in my health. I was sleeping 12 hrs plus for awhile. I prefer 9 or even 10 or yes 7-8 hrs with a decent nap. I'm trying to focus on sleeping well before midnight, which I've accomplished somewhat by moving to a place without internet!
-
do you have any pre-post workout meals?
-
I personally don't have much of a system with this stuff, but I've never done alot of experientation with post-workout meals or windows and such. Usually I'll eat whenever I get home after a workout. technically I let the food (like marrow) warm up a bit. So I probably miss any advantages of 30 mins to one hour of whatever they recommend.
I don't like to eat before a workout in any capacity. I used to do all my workouts at home in the mornings on any empty stomach. Now that I'm working out in the evenings, I like to space out my meals prior to workout as far as possible. But I've done CF after eating like 1:30 before, which would be totally gross on any other kind of diet I would think, so I believe digestion does indeed work pretty fast. I would never do this intentionally however. Eggs might be your best bet for either or perhaps some kind of raw or fermented milk or kefir, although those don't work for me right now. I've eaten a few fruits after workouts a few times and felt good (until the next day..haha!), then jumped into eating an hour later or so. I think ultimately this is due to the proper hydration in fruits, rather than any carb content, which in the quantities consumed was quite low.
-
Protein and fats only after workout up to 3 hours after. There is a great show on superhuman radio explaining the science behind it featuring Dr. mauro di pasquale... although I can't locate it yet. When I find it I'll post link
-
hey sven most of your carbs are from fructose which do not really replenish muscle glycogen.. have you tried dextrose or potatoes/oats?
-
How do you figure these don't fill up glycogen? I've always found mine to fill up very nicely with fructose.
Dextrose drains me. Potatoes and oats are sugarbombs, they drain me even harder. They can even make me pass out it is so intense, along with stomach cramps. So these aren't used. Replenishing glycogen isn't one of my top priorities after a workout anyway.
What methods do you use for replenishing glycogen?
-
well why im asking is ive been reading a lot and fructose (in fruits), supposedly doesnt replenish glycogen in the muscle... just liver.. i dont know ive just been eating one cooked potato a day for carbs.. ill see how i feel, if i feel crappy i might switch back to bananas..
-
Very interesting, I'll have to look into it this more
-
ive actually always managed to gain muscle just fine while intermittent fasting, i guess maybe im not a hard gainer, but i generally just have a huge meal at night and it seems to work fine. i mainly eat according to my appetite. the last 3 weeks especially ive noticed an increase in appetite and size ever since moving up to more difficult bodyweight exercises.
-
sven you said you do shakes with 5 egg yolk with lemon + 2tbsp honey
You blend it all? why addinh lemon to the shake? honey for taste right?
Good luck hitting 200lbs lol
-
sven you said you do shakes with 5 egg yolk with lemon + 2tbsp honey
You blend it all? why addinh lemon to the shake? honey for taste right?
Good luck hitting 200lbs lol
I ask because when blending eggs I heard its does something with the enzymes inside of it.
So better avoid blending but drinking rocky style?
-
Any update, Sven? I'm curious..
-
I ask because when blending eggs I heard its does something with the enzymes inside of it.
So better avoid blending but drinking rocky style?
Causes loss of enzymes due to oxidization, so you are right.
-
I ask because when blending eggs I heard its does something with the enzymes inside of it.
So better avoid blending but drinking rocky style?
I add lemons because I suffered two campylobacter infections from supermarket bought raw eggs. Lemons greatly reduce a future risk. Just personal preference. Even though I get my eggs from a farmer now there is no way I will ever risk it again. The infection drained 8 pounds from me in a week(this was back in February of 2010). You are right it is better to eat them rocky style.
-
Hey all! It's been over 6 months since my last login in I've missed you all
Unfortunately there is nothing exciting to update. Once I hit 170 I've been maintaining it and going through the motions as far as weight training. My calories have been cruising around 2000-3000kcal per day, sometimes less. Since taking up sobriety for 5 months my muscle mass doesn't wither away so quickly anymore.
BUT this is a perfect time for a growth phase... :) I suspect the gains will come quickly with a good program and diet shock. I'm 168 today and would like to hit 180 by the end of March.
So, any ideas on training? New diet ideas? Has anyone had progress lately? Any good logs going right now? Bulking? Cutting? Your goals? Let's Discuss!! I've been out of the loop
I will start my growth phase this weekend. Will include more info on this run so we can all learn from experience:
-Full workout log
-Bodyfat
-Daily diet
-Bloodwork(if I can convince the student healthcare center to do it for cheap) hopefully a full blood profile and total testosterone in addition
Just to be clear I won't be turning this topic into a daily log, but give updates on significant gains and improvements
Would like to experiment with high frequency approach for maximal bulk (train 5 days a week, adding weight every week to the exercises) with multi-joint exercises more specifically :
-Deadlift
-Squat
-Overhead barbell press
-Pull-ups/rows
-Dips/Bench Presses
Thoughts?
-
oh yea pictures included too. They'll be better than those awkward photos I took before
-
I'm gaining well now..
And it's a different kind of gain. Carb gaining is much more water bloated muscle look which you lose very very fast if you don't eat like a beast.
Primal diet gaining (keto) I gain size slowly, but strength really fast. But the strength is there to stay. My muscles feel more condensed and there's definitely more strength per pound.
I'm really liking it this way.
-
Hey all! It's been over 6 months since my last login in I've missed you all
So, any ideas on training? New diet ideas? Has anyone had progress lately? Any good logs going right now? Bulking? Cutting? Your goals? Let's Discuss!! I've been out of the loop
Hey,
I admit I did wrongly assume you might have taken up keg-stands and co-eds as a large part of your exercise routine. 8)
I'm up over or ~170
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/off-topic/not-all-dieticians-are-as-anti-paleo-as-i-previously-believed/msg62214/#msg62214
heres the latest pic and also alot of my perspective on this subject in general. I personally think its worth reading :)
Would like to experiment with high frequency approach for maximal bulk (train 5 days a week, adding weight every week to the exercises) with multi-joint exercises more specifically :
-Deadlift
-Squat
-Overhead barbell press
-Pull-ups/rows
-Dips/Bench Presses
Thoughts?
bench/dips
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/today%27s-workout/msg62679/#msg62679
clean and jerks/deadlift/pull-ups/pendlay rows
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/today%27s-workout/msg62065/#msg62065
squats/impact
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/today%27s-workout/msg61379/#msg61379
push press
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/today%27s-workout/msg60736/#msg60736
-
And it's a different kind of gain. Carb gaining is much more water bloated muscle look which you lose very very fast if you don't eat like a beast.
Primal diet gaining (keto) I gain size slowly, but strength really fast. But the strength is there to stay. My muscles feel more condensed and there's definitely more strength per pound.
Can you briefly describe what you eat in a day or two, and maybe a little on your recent training? How are you energy levels throughout the day? If that is you in the profile pic then yes you are a beast.
-
Are any of you guys registered over on any lifting specific forums? I have a log that I log pretty much every workout over at www.ironaddicts.com (http://www.ironaddicts.com) . It would be awesome to see some raw guys over there learning and posting up logs regularly, since I am the only one.
I would highly recommend getting active on a board, and posting up a log. Ironaddicts is small and kinda like here where everyone (for the most part) gets along and has similar minds, and offers each other advice. Pretty tight knit.
Oh, also this site looks like a bodybuilding site, but its very much so strength emphasis. The site originally got popular by making the "get stronger to get bigger" concept. Like I said, it would be awesome to follow some of you guys on there, or if you guys are on any other sites post it up!
-
I admit I did wrongly assume you might have taken up keg-stands and co-eds as a large part of your exercise routine. 8)
I'm up over or ~170
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/off-topic/not-all-dieticians-are-as-anti-paleo-as-i-previously-believed/msg62214/#msg62214
heres the latest pic and also alot of my perspective on this subject in general. I personally think its worth reading :)
bench/dips
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/today%27s-workout/msg62679/#msg62679
clean and jerks/deadlift/pull-ups/pendlay rows
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/today%27s-workout/msg62065/#msg62065
squats/impact
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/today%27s-workout/msg61379/#msg61379
push press
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/exercisebodybuilding/today%27s-workout/msg60736/#msg60736
You were in fact correct about my keg stand workout lol, but these days it no longer catches my interest.
Man! you look far more cut than I remember. You have been on top of your training routine as well, well done!
Good read on that topic. Once I hit 180 I'll probably have to figure out how to shape my body to the desired look, but for the meantime it is time for pure bulking!
-
Are any of you guys registered over on any lifting specific forums? I have a log that I log pretty much every workout over at www.ironaddicts.com (http://www.ironaddicts.com) . It would be awesome to see some raw guys over there learning and posting up logs regularly, since I am the only one.
I would highly recommend getting active on a board, and posting up a log. Ironaddicts is small and kinda like here where everyone (for the most part) gets along and has similar minds, and offers each other advice. Pretty tight knit.
Oh, also this site looks like a bodybuilding site, but its very much so strength emphasis. The site originally got popular by making the "get stronger to get bigger" concept. Like I said, it would be awesome to follow some of you guys on there, or if you guys are on any other sites post it up!
Never registered with any bodybuilding site. To be honest there is too much information for me to search through, and since eating raw, I am only interested in what works for raw paleos. I'm also after size, not strength or definition(yet).
Do you have a direct link to your log that I could take a look at? Hell I might even take up your offer...
-
Can you briefly describe what you eat in a day or two, and maybe a little on your recent training? How are you energy levels throughout the day? If that is you in the profile pic then yes you are a beast.
Thanks, and yeah.
http://gyazo.com/d8a3421775867246bd7393b4a27d251d.png
This is the outline I follow. But seeing as it's like 10 meals a day, I don't have time for that. But I do my best to follow this.
As far as lifting goes.. Can't be arsed to post all of it. I change it so much. Some times I only hit one muscle group per day, other days I do nothing but compounds. I follow what my body feels like he's capable of doing best.
-
http://gyazo.com/d8a3421775867246bd7393b4a27d251d.png
Nice diet, looks like its from AV. Your results from doing the slow building approach speaks from your pics. After I bulk I may try to eat that way.
I know the bulking/cutting things is really overrated and not generally accepted here but one must experiment yes?
-
Never registered with any bodybuilding site. To be honest there is too much information for me to search through, and since eating raw, I am only interested in what works for raw paleos. I'm also after size, not strength or definition(yet).
Do you have a direct link to your log that I could take a look at? Hell I might even take up your offer...
The only difference you are going to notice from raw paleo to SAD/bodybuilder diet is being leaner year around, POSSIBLY stronger, and a LOT longer to gain weight. At least that is my experience.
I have a link to my log, but you have to be registered to the site to access the log section. When you register you will see my name in there, my log is pretty active and usually bumped to the top.
I may have some insight to offer here. I also recently did an experiment with a bulking diet.
In the beginning I went from a little chubby 145 to a chubby (14-15% bf) 198 on a bodybuilding diet (pre RP). Routine I followed was a 3 day a week, push/pull/legs type setup. I stayed at this weight for awhile, I think I eventually cleaned up my diet slightly and went down to 185's, while keeping a 370 squat, 320 bench, and 455 deadlift. Eventually I decided I wanted to try RP, went cold turkey and my weight went alll the way down to 155 at 10%ish and has STAYED here. It only took me a couple weeks to lose the weight, and being sick on and off (I figured from the diet, I don't know for sure) didn't help.
I was super discouraged and my lifts were pretty weak starting back up, but I was significantly lighter. I decided at that point to go on the billstarr 5x5 routine (you can look it up, its a strength based routine). Within a few weeks my lifts were up to an estimated (used calculated max off of five rep max) 485 deadlift and 305ish bench, at the same 155lbs. Squat has been out of the question due to an injury.
Recently I went on a burger/hot dog/potato binge (for different reasons.. mentioned in my log lol) and I gained a bunch of weight super fast, ended up being mostly fat and I was feeling like crap, workouts were not as strong I felt, and when I went back to RPD I dropped the weight quickly and here I am back at 155, making progress on my workouts.
If you asked me, I would say I am not sure if its possible to get big off of RPD (compared to a diet with starches and grains), but I do think its possible to be strong and lean.
I wish you luck on your journey to get size, and I think you will gain a significant amount of size depending on your starting point, but it will take awhile to look like you lift in a t-shirt on RPD lol. If you ask me, I think the only way you are going to force size is to force strength, because I doubt you will get much out of a pump workout bodybuilding routine without all the starches and grains. Its worth a shot though, I defiantly would like to watch your progress on some sort of log.
-
The only difference you are going to notice from raw paleo to SAD/bodybuilder diet is being leaner year around, POSSIBLY stronger, and a LOT longer to gain weight. At least that is my experience.
If you asked me, I would say I am not sure if its possible to get big off of RPD (compared to a diet with starches and grains), but I do think its possible to be strong and lean.
"December 23rd -154lbs- January 27th- 161lbs" - total 35 days
Stopped bulking from February to May
Started bulking up again in May
"May 5th 163lbs - July 2nd -168-170lbs" total ~60 days
95 days bulking = 15 pounds
this is all covered in this log. Bulking is very possible on RP.
For most, bulking is very hard on RP, that is why I made this topic in the first place. There is a method to doing it. Consistency.... Every single day, no excuses, CALORIES EVERY DAY this means 4500-6,000kcal per day. EVERY DAY. Consistently. I found bulking significantly easier on RP(the food is more nutritious, digests easier, better utilized by the body, low toxicity). I believe the problem is people just don't eat enough and don't take advantage of fruits and honey. LOTS OF FATS! and of course at least 1-2 pounds of raw steak a day. It is hard to bulk period, no matter what you eat. AND it is especially hard on RP because when the body gets good food, it feels full and satisfied, and your body basically says "hey that was enough good nutritious food, I am well nourished" and it's hard to force your body to eat more when your body feels good and is in homeostasis. Forcefull feeding is not everyones cup of tea, and it is harder to forcefully eat on RP than SAD in my opionion, since the food tastes sooo good.
Maybe I am in the minority? who knows for sure.
Perhaps I have hit my peak leaving my previous bulking efforts minimal at best. Only these next 6-8 weeks will tell if I can bulk to a respectable weight on RP.
I do appreciate your logical thinking and your lifts are amazing for a guy at your body weight. So you obviously know what you are talking about. How tall do you stand? I will take your advice for strength pushing into serious consideration. I just hate taxing my body and overtraining. Maybe take a low rep method? Do you eat low carb?
-
Eventually I decided I wanted to try RP, went cold turkey and my weight went alll the way down to 155 at 10%ish and has STAYED here. It only took me a couple weeks to lose the weight, and being sick on and off (I figured from the diet, I don't know for sure) didn't help.
I was super discouraged and my lifts were pretty weak starting back up, but I was significantly lighter.
Could this have been a detox? Did you feel an overall better sense of health?
-
How tall are you? I don't doubt its possible to gain some size on RPD, I just don't know if its possible to, say, place in an all natural bodybuilding show, or something like that. Although I am probably wrong and there is probably someone out there that has done it! I am short, like 5'6-5'7 so 155lbs is where my body likes to stay at on my current diet of 2lbs of beef a day (all different cuts, sometimes organs), 4-6 cups of milk, and 3 servings of fruit, plus sometimes lots of honey, sometimes I overdo it a bit on the honey :D. I do think it may be possible to gain more weight with the current diet if I continue adding weight on the bar, or shovel in more food though.
I have been on RPD for under a year, and part of that time has been little progress in the gym from injuries and regaining what I lost from being sick and what-not. So, I definitely can't say I know it all and how thing work on this diet, just my experience so far, which isn't much! Glad I can be a part of this topic, I just really hope we can stick the guys together that are interested in this kind of stuff to figure out what works and what doesn't a little quicker.
For myself, I would like to gain another 10lbs to be sitting at 165lbs to be at the top of my weight class in powerlifting.
As far as detox goes, I am kinda bummed to admit that I am not that great at reading the signs from my body and I pretty much feel the same as I did. Although going back from my diet of burgers and hot dogs a few weeks ago as an experiment, I feel MUCH better ditching that stuff.
For training I am usually 5-1 reps on the main lifts (squat, bench, deadlift, and all their variations), but recently I have been finding better progress in the 5-3 rep range. I have always felt recovery has been great, but I would assume its even better on RPD, unless your routine is totally over the top crazy I don't think you have to worry much. I get nice strength gains from just one or two sets of low reps, as long as I put enough intensity into a set sometimes that is all you need to progress. That billstarr setup I mentioned to you is 3 exercises per day, and 1 heavy set for each, the rest is warm ups. I gained awesome on that routine and never felt even the slightest signs of overtraining, but I can't say it will be the same for everyone. I recently have been doing low volume front squats pretty much every day with no noticeable overtraining.
About your low carb question it depends on who you ask, you can see my diet and I think I am pretty high carb, especially if I eat honey that day which is like 10 tbsps or the end of the bottle whichever comes first lol. But if you ask a guy on a typical bodybuilder diet they think I am running a keto diet or something haha. A lot of the big natty guys are on LOTS of carbs, and run carb cycling, "cheat days" paired up with an almost paleo type week. On the weekend they will gorge on like 15k calories of doughnuts and poptarts, then run low carb for the rest of the week.
Hopefully all that babble can be beneficial in some way, it got a little long without me noticing. I wish you the best of luck man, and I would REALLY like to follow along a full log of diet workout with weights used, maybe even some youtube lifting vids, of another RP dieter.
Oh, and I just wanted to say, in the beginning I was more of a size guy (back when I got up to 190's) but after a year or so I realized hitting weight PR's every week or few weeks was more fun for me than waiting 3 months to see if my shoulders got a little bigger in a side by side picture comparison haha. I am not sure how experienced you are so this may all be unimportant and you already know this, but you just gotta find what style you enjoy because its not easy, and its a long road, and if you don't enjoy it it'll be impossible to be consistent.
Keep us updated! :)
-
i do not know what those guys are eating but sprinters are usually pretty bulky and very lean.
gymnasts are also somewhat lean and have massive upper body.
-
Thanks for the follow up B.Money
Lol I love it when people start getting worked up telling guys like us that we are on keto diets and try to tell us how bad it is for our health. Oh well... Not much can be said to these people that is worth the effort.
If you haven't listened to this already, then listen. This is a must listen for guys like us
http://superhumanradio.com/components/com_podcast/media/mp3s/SHR_Show_420.mp3
-
i do not know what those guys are eating but sprinters are usually pretty bulky and very lean.
gymnasts are also somewhat lean and have massive upper body.
Would love to find out. They also have soaring growth hormone levels from that type of training.
-
Are any of you guys registered over on any lifting specific forums? I have a log that I log pretty much every workout over at www.ironaddicts.com (http://www.ironaddicts.com) . It would be awesome to see some raw guys over there learning and posting up logs regularly, since I am the only one.
I would highly recommend getting active on a board, and posting up a log. Ironaddicts is small and kinda like here where everyone (for the most part) gets along and has similar minds, and offers each other advice. Pretty tight knit.
Oh, also this site looks like a bodybuilding site, but its very much so strength emphasis. The site originally got popular by making the "get stronger to get bigger" concept. Like I said, it would be awesome to follow some of you guys on there, or if you guys are on any other sites post it up!
I registered as Kneival D
I concur that the place is a bit of a swamp. I sent you a PM so send me a pm there (or here) if there are any particular threads or things of interest. I basically do a 'keto diet' and am involved in a bit of powerlifting and crossfit/HIIT stuff.
Would love to find out. They also have soaring growth hormone levels from that type of training.
there was some gymnastics forum I spotted at one point which seemed pretty good, but I totally forget what it was called.
-
Nice, I am 1/2 way through this radio show currently and have a few thoughts. I have listened to this radio show awhile back when I was first interested in the primal diet, but forgot a lot so I am listening to it over again. I am curious how big this guy really is or how tall he is, anyone have any recent pictures of him while he was on the primal diet? Initially 215 on a bulk where he "can still see his abs" tells me he is at 10-12% (being generously low). Depending on how tall he is, this really may not be much.
I could care less about size and all that, just trying to point out my thoughts. He is saying right now that raw food is better than steroids, but I think that is a little much--in terms of health sure, strength...I doubt it but maybe, but bodybuilding?? I would like to think I have found the end all be all diet to being great at everything (including bodybuilding), but I just don't know... If our poster boy is 215lbs bulked up, I just hope he is 5'5 I guess is all I'm sayin', otherwise I am still skeptical.
edit: actually, doing a little more research, perhaps his weight isn't all THAT low for the normal natural bodybuilder so I apologize. BUT, comparing it to steroids is still just a little exaggeration, since it doesn't sound like he is a big name natural pro like Layne Norton. Guys on juice are 200+ in contest shape I believe. Disclaimer: i don't know much about bodybuilding so feel free to keep me honest. :D
-
Time for an update!
and the drum roll please......
as of today 3/4/2011 I have gained............ -6.5 pounds. Yes you read that right, I lost 6.5 pounds, I am down to around 163ish.
What happened to that awesome bulk I was planning???
Lifestyle!!!
Full time school
Full time work
Social life on the weekends
I tried adding a bulking program to my busy lifestyle this semester and it caused me to loose weight. Even though I upped the calories and increased weight training frequency I lost strength and muscle. **lowers head in shame*** -[
Anyway, it just goes to show that lifestyle and stress are extremely important for fitness and wellbeing. The success of my last bulk was due to the fact that all I was doing was working part time over the summer, this gave me lots of time to eat, rest, train, and most importantly REDUCE STRESS!
So? I will be doing the bulk after I graduate this semester when I have more time to devote to it and am not extremely stressed out with school and work.
Sorry guys this was a major failure but I'm glad I learned from it. Can't wait to restart the bulk in a few months.
-
I read through all these posts really fun reading guys. Im more into the sport/strength training side of this. Havent started eating paleo again. Its hard to get grassfed products here and when I did it the first time I got really sick from eating raw liver. My dad and sports coaches were pissed cuz I missed a bunch of prakys and games. My temp was like 102 at one point pre bad. I think the reason was because it was my first week eating paleo and I didnt have any fat in my diet. Id go to the grocery store and get steak, salmon, scallops and liver and eat it raw. The morning after eating liver I was sick as a dog in the rear. Do you think I introduced the organs too fast. Or was this just a detox that peaked with the liver? Anyways Im starting to wonder after reading all these posts if on a paleo diet that its actually detrimental to hold onto large amounts of muscle. It will be interesting once I start eating paleo again wheather it makes a difference. I build muscle really easily so it may be a good example because I know there are alot of hardgainers examples already up. My training now is shifting to no weights just plyos and bodyweight gymnastic stuff. When I do the paleo I wont have any fruit I dont think its worth it. Just rushin writin this post but let me know your thoughts look forward to contributing here later guys.
B