Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Hot Topics => Topic started by: MrBBQ on March 04, 2010, 09:09:07 pm
-
Hey all,
I've been struggling with weight maintenance, energy levels and kidney health on high RVAF and as an experiment, I've been including some cooked starches (butternut squash, carrots, potatoes etc.) to augment my raw meat/fruits/vegetables diet (a la the Kitavans). I can say that for the first time in a couple of years, I feel more motivation/energy, increased strength and weight regain.
I realise it's taboo to introduce this topic in a raw forum, but frankly, it's just an "augmentation" of my raw paleo effort to assist my energy levels and weight gain.
I must say that with these cooked starches, I never feel any subsequent hypoglycemic response (tiredness, yawning) and it seems already that my glucose tolerance has improved, as well as bowel movements, metabolism and weight gain.
Has anyone else experimented with this augmentation to RVAF with beneficial efficacy?
Best,
Scotty
-
Hey all,
I've been struggling with weight maintenance, energy levels and kidney health on high RVAF and as an experiment, I've been including some cooked starches (butternut squash, carrots, potatoes etc.) to augment my raw meat/fruits/vegetables diet (a la the Kitavans).
Has anyone else experimented with this augmentation to RVAF with beneficial efficacy?
I experimented with cooked starch one year ago, with very bad result.
-
I would try stuff like honey and fruit before you go to cooked starches.
Also try stuff like beets and raw sweet potatoes and other underground vegetables that are starchy. But they're also raw.
good luck
-
i tried a steamed sweet potato right before thanksgiving to see if i could tolerate them while with the family. i found that it pretty much acted like a colon cleanse (not in a good way). about 10 minutes after i ate it (only a few ounces), i got a headache and then 30 minutes later i shit it all out. it also made me itchy all over for a while. it seems my body doesn't like them
-
Worthwhile suggestions, which I appreciate.
Fruit and honey seem to be destroying my teeth gradually (minimise them to small doses) and even though I'm eating green clay, freshly-made bone meal, large amounts of fat and fatty cuts, I can't turn the tide enough for my teeth to be able to tolerate fruit and honey.
Raw zero carb is pretty dangerous for me too (serious constipation resulting in blood in the toilet, major dark circles and more), plus I can't seem to get enough of a good ratio of carbs (to meat+fat) from fruit without my teeth being battered by all of the organic acids.
The only reason I've turned to cooked starches is that nothing is actually working to turn the tide (at the moment) and my teeth are damaged to the extent that I'm not willing to eat fruits in sufficient quantity to balance with meat+fat. Raw starchy vegetables aren't really something that I could sustain, which is the reason I'm engaged in very light cooking.
I particularly don't like the idea of continuining with F-CLO, so I'll stick with land ruminant liver and D3 supplements (and enjoy the sunshine as often as possible).
The interesting observation I've made is that the more cooked starches I eat, the more meat+fat I can eat without too-pronounced dark circles and rapid heart beating, which is something that fruits could never mitigate - almost as if I couldn't eat enough carbs from fruit to balance the meat+fat.
I came across Stephen @ Whole Health Source's recommendations as follows, which coincidentally reconcile with my own experimentation:
- Rich in animal foods such as meat, organs, fish, bone broths, full-fat pastured dairy (if tolerated) and eggs.
- Fermented grains only; no unfermented grains such as oatmeal, breakfast cereal, crackers, etc. No breads except sourdough because they typically aren't made from fresh flour.
- No nuts; beans in moderation, only if they're soaked overnight or longer in warm water (due to the phytic acid).
- Starchy vegetables such as potatoes and sweet potatoes.
- Moderate quantities of fruit, but no refined sweets.
- Moderate quantities of well-cooked vegetables.
- Sunlight, high-vitamin cod liver oil or vitamin D3 supplements.
- Generous amounts of pastured butter.
- No industrially processed food.
It's int'resting that many people tout the benefits of broth, yet never mention raw bone meal, which seems much more convenient to me (and less energy-intensive).
@cherimoya_kid: I know that you're also endeavouring to heal your teeth post-fruitarianism - what success have you had thus far and with what food? (I know PaleoPhil, Tyler and Lex have no problematic situation nowadays and experienced healing)
Best,
Scotty
-
@cherimoya_kid: I know that you're also endeavouring to heal your teeth post-fruitarianism - what success have you had thus far and with what food? (I know PaleoPhil, Tyler and Lex have no problematic situation nowadays and experienced healing)
swishing with bone meal after every meal seems to really help my teeth. Dry scallops (the ones that aren't treated with sodium metabisultfite) seem to be really great for my teeth. Dark leafy greens like spinach are also very helpful.
If I were to cut out all raw dairy, and keep eating the same in every other way, my teeth would be like iron. They're still in good shape, but I do have some slight sensitivity from time to time.
-
this is so funny that in 3rd world like where i'm from, rich eats lots of cooked starches, and poor eats all the good things.
-
If you have to cook them to make them digestible, then they're not paleo and probably unhealthy.
-
If you have to cook them to make them digestible, then they're not paleo and probably unhealthy.
That would be very true, if there weren't any people who do well eating them and feel bad after eating raw fruits and honey. But there are such kind of people.
-
Why don't you eat starchy raw alternatives. Quinoa for instance is actually a seed not a grain and when sprouted can be eaten raw. They are very starchy and their nutritional profile is very similar to a grain.
-
This topic belongs in the hot topics forum only. I'll move it there.
As for cooked starches, unsurprisingly, like the vast majority, I do badly on them, though not as badly as with cooked animal fats.
-
I just don't like the taste, look, and texture of cooked fat. However, cooking fat at high temps. is necessary for good pemmican. There are miraculous stories about people thriving on pemmican alone.
-
I just don't like the taste, look, and texture of cooked fat. However, cooking fat at high temps. is necessary for good pemmican. There are miraculous stories about people thriving on pemmican alone.
Cooking at high temps is essential for making pemmican that can store for long periods. As for health-claims re pemmican, the word "miraculous" is rather inappropriate, as none of the various accounts are remotely believable, especially in view of the fact that so many RPDers do so badly, healthwise, on pemmican.
-
I just don't like the taste, look, and texture of cooked fat. However, cooking fat at high temps. is necessary for good pemmican. There are miraculous stories about people thriving on pemmican alone.
Psst. It's rendering. If you write cooking, you push TD's paranoid button harder.
Not necessarily high heat, though. Commercial rendering is also done at 120-130F in water. Of course, that would not keep very long.
-
Psst. It's rendering. If you write cooking, you push TD's paranoid button harder.
Not necessarily high heat, though. Commercial rendering is also done at 120-130F in water. Of course, that would not keep very long.
Rendering is a form of cooking, like it or not.And the fact that pemmican has to be heated at high temperatures in order to keep for longer means that it has to be even more damaged by heat than otherwise.
-
Rendering is a form of cooking, like it or not.
Only for those who cannot tell the differencehttp://www.memidex.com/rendering+cooking.
Nobody heats pemmican.
-
Only for those who cannot tell the differencehttp://www.memidex.com/rendering+cooking.
Unfortunately for you, rendering is considered a form of cooking by the dictionary:- http://www.memidex.com/rendering+cooking
, so you are in a tiny minority of crazed ZCers who are too stupid to realise this.
Nobody heats pemmican.
Again, unfortunately, most people, other than crackpots, view melting fat to make pemmican ,as constituting a form of heating.
-
Question for people who have tried cooked grains and had bad results, did you try fermented grains?
I get a 30 day aged sourdough from my local farmers market that i do wonderfully on, the taste is amazing(not like any other bread) and it's very rich in protien and short chain fatty acids.
-
I get a 30 day aged sourdough from my local farmers market that i do wonderfully on, the taste is amazing(not like any other bread) and it's very rich in protien and short chain fatty acids.
I think there are people following Primal Diet that consume sourdough with lots of raw butter, but more in a medicinal way for some specific detox, or simply to slow down detox/be more balanced etc..not for nutritional reasons. Seems like most RPD avoid even the starches deemed acceptable in traditional cooked paleo diets, which themselves are very anti grain in any fashion. Seems like a mixture of raw animal proteins with excessive cooked starch internally could lead to some issues I would think. Are you thinking of traditional Swiss Diet ala W.P.?
-
Are you thinking of traditional Swiss Diet ala W.P.?
I try to follow a some what ancestral diet based on what my ancestors would be eating 2000 years ago, butter, kefir, sourdough, bee products and some fruits etc. seems to be working so far
-
Unfortunately for you, rendering is considered a form of cooking by the dictionary:- http://www.memidex.com/rendering+cooking
, so you are in a tiny minority of crazed ZCers who are too stupid to realise this.
Again, unfortunately, most people, other than crackpots, view melting fat to make pemmican ,as constituting a form of heating.
Stupid is as stupid does.
I eat raw pemmican and am well. You managed to poison yourself with something that you believed was tallow, and we would all like to know how you did it.
-
ive been cooking up cornmeal and eating it with raw butter and eggs, salmon etc...
i eat potatoes, sweet and regular raw, as well as raw carrots and squash..cooking these makes them too sweet...i dont feel any hypoglycemic reaction
BUT>....if i eat fruit i feel hypoglycemic and hungry...honey is the same way....?
so to those suggesting these above roots and squash i dont think everyones body reacts the same..
-
Stupid is as stupid does.
I eat raw pemmican and am well.
ive been cooking up cornmeal and eating it with raw butter and eggs, salmon etc...
i eat potatoes, sweet and regular raw, as well as raw carrots and squash..cooking these makes them too sweet...i dont feel any hypoglycemic reaction
BUT>....if i eat fruit i feel hypoglycemic and hungry...honey is the same way....?
so to those suggesting these above roots and squash i dont think everyones body reacts the same..
Yes, these observations are just facts that cannot be stupidly ignored or denied if we want to be taken seriously from a scientific point of view and progress in future. Dogmatism is just stupidity.
There is most likely a big difference between William's "raw pemmican" and cooked meat and fat in general. Similarly between home cooked and grown potatoes or other tubers and highly processed starches and breads based on modern wheat from agrobusiness.
-
Stupid is as stupid does.
I eat raw pemmican and am well. You managed to poison yourself with something that you believed was tallow, and we would all like to know how you did it.
The very fact that you insist on the notion that your pemmican is always 100 percent raw despite heating-rendering. demonstrates stupidity. As for the tallow I ate it was heated suet and I am just 1 of many,many RPDers who happen to do badly on heated animal fats of all kinds. What I find personally rather interesting/telling, though, is that despite various unconvincing protestations from 1 or 2 lone individuals re pemmican, the vast majority of RVAFers who have tried it report feeling worse-off , healthwise than on genuinely raw animal foods with negative symptoms increasing the more pemmican they eat, and the more frequently they eat it etc... Given the above, if there is any genuine difference in maleffects between pemmican and standard cooked animal foods it is clearly too negligible to be of any note.
-
Post redacted due to the intentional making of deliberately incorrect statements.
-
William, I am impartial in this situation, but maybe if you could provide the info on how you uh.. construct your pemmican without the use of heat that will be beneficial.
-
William, as usual, you are simply ignoring the dictionary and people`s common usage of terms and refusing to accept that pemmican is heated as a standard practice. And tallow as a term is indeed used to describe heated suet so that claim of yours is also false.
Since you persist in such frequent flat-earth-style pronouncements despite numerous warnings from other mods, it`s clear that further nonsense of this sort will have to be redacted from now on, with more actions to come, to ensure stricter adherence to the truth. Quite frankly, given that virtually all your ridiculous dietary beliefs come straight from that fool The Bear, your absurd views hold no place here,and you would be better placed to post instead on the ZIOH forum where you`ll find many sharing your exact same retarded fundamentalist views.
-
But combining a raw dried meat with raw suet is not the problem. This kind o pemmican is 100% raw.
-
But combining a raw dried meat with raw suet is not the problem. This kind o pemmican is 100% raw.
That wasn't what William was talking about. He was referring to heated/rendered animal fats in pemmican , to 200 fahrenheit etc., as raw. Whatever the case, in order to make pemmican one has to render it and therefore heat it(genuinely long-lasting pemmican has to be heated to very high temperatures). Raw suet and dried jerky together is not official pemmican therefore, it's something else.
-
Raw suet and dried jerky together is not official pemmican therefore, it's something else.
Yeah, I know. Besides its shelf life would be quite short.
As you said the suet must be heated to high temperatures to create long-lasting pemmican, such as inuit one.
-
Post redacted due to the intentional making of deliberately incorrect statements.
redact [r??dækt]
vb (tr)
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) to compose or draft (an edict, proclamation, etc.)
2. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) to put (a literary work, etc.) into appropriate form for publication; edit
[from Latin redigere to bring back, from red- re- + agere to drive]
Makes no sense.
-
redact [r??dækt]
vb (tr)
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) to compose or draft (an edict, proclamation, etc.)
2. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) to put (a literary work, etc.) into appropriate form for publication; edit
[from Latin redigere to bring back, from red- re- + agere to drive]
Makes no sense.
The word "redact" is used to relate to editors attempts to rewrite certain other peoples`texts which contain incorrect data and/or which are deliberately false. In the above case of your previous post, there was so much misinformation that everything had to go.
-
The word "redact" is used to relate to editors attempts to rewrite certain other peoples`texts which contain incorrect data and/or which are deliberately false. In the above case of your previous post, there was so much misinformation that everything had to go.
Deleting my posts will not convince anyone.
-
Deleting my posts will not convince anyone.
If you explain how you make raw pemmican, that will be quite convincing.
-
Deleting my posts will not convince anyone.
Deleting your lies is necessary as otherwise ignorant newbies might be falsely believe that pemmican was always raw etc.
-
If you explain how you make raw pemmican, that will be quite convincing.
William has done it before in another thread and this same controversy emerges repeatedly and will certainly continue to do so in future. William is right when he claims that there is a huge difference in terms of heat generated toxins between his "raw pemmican" and usual cooked meat and fat. That's just basic science already discussed before. This subtle reality just doesn't fit into TD's ideology which is apparently of the dichotomic "everything must be either black or white" type.
-
William has done it before in another thread and this same controversy emerges repeatedly and will certainly continue to do so in future. William is right when he claims that there is a huge difference in terms of heat generated toxins between his "raw pemmican" and usual cooked meat and fat. That's just basic science already discussed before. This subtle reality just doesn't fit into TD's ideology which is apparently of the dichotomic "everything must be either black or white" type.
You dont like this of course but the fact is that your speculations are to a large extent suspect simply because most RVAFers mention doing increasingly badly on pemmican healthwise. Therefore for anyone like William to promote pemmican as a health-food is not only dangerous for other members but also trollish.
But that`s all by the by. This is both a raw and a palaeolithic diet forum both at the same time. It is not a forum for promoting raw veganism or cooked zero-carb diets or junk food diets or cooked SAD diets or pemmican-heavy diets or similiar nonsense(and there are plenty such as yourself on those other forums who make similiar scientific claims for those various other diets). I would have no problem if pemmican was occasionally mentioned in the hot topics forum once in a great while by a member, but for it to be constantly mentioned by 1 particular troll again and again on other forums, is, of course, utterly unacceptable.
-
Why not start a new thread to battle it out? Could be mildly entertaining. I agree with grius on this completely.
-
Why not start a new thread to battle it out? Could be mildly entertaining. I agree with grius on this completely.
It would be pointless for several reasons.- a) plenty of rpders report having negative health issues with pemmican b) food-science is so new, with rendered fats being far, far less studied scientifically than any other kinds of processed heated foods( other than plenty of links made between rendered animal fats and mad cow disease), that scientific claims would not mean much until some more decades of research. More to the point, we cant have situations where trolls dominate endless threads focusing on the imagined health benefits of a particular non-rpd food or diet. That was what happened with superinfinity and some other trolls such as metallica, who caused great disruption and annoyance to members before they were in the end mercifully put down, so to speak. William is a more extreme version of the Superinifinity troll and has already disrupted these forums countless times in the past re mentioning/promoting pemmican(let alone william`s moronic creationist claims which are embarassing for this rpd forum) which just can`t be allowed to continue in the same vein. Once in a while in hot topics would be acceptable and the relevant quota has long been exceeded to put it mildly. Doing it on and on counts as trolling.
-
Can we settle this raw pemmican debate / clarification here?
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/hot-topics/how-do-you-make-%27raw%27-pemmican/
-
You dont like this of course but the fact is that your speculations are to a large extent suspect simply because most RVAFers mention doing increasingly badly on pemmican healthwise. Therefore for anyone like William to promote pemmican as a health-food is not only dangerous for other members but also trollish.
Tyler, the question is not whether I like something or not and deals not with the usual form of pemmican but with the "raw" pemmican variety of William. I don't know of any clear cut evidence of people doing so badly when eating this form of pemmican.
The RVAFers you mention ate in fact the usual form of pemmican where the meat is dried at temperatures above 40 °C (104 °F) and the fat rendered above boiling water temperature, not to mention the quality ( heavily grain fed) of the fat and meat.
That said I do not disagree with your concern about the general RAWPALEO concept and do not advocate to adopt this kind of food as usual food but I definitely consider this "raw" pemmican concept of very high interest for all RPDers in specific circumstances such as travel etc.
-
Tyler, the question is not whether I like something or not and deals not with the usual form of pemmican but with the "raw" pemmican variety of William. I don't know of any clear cut evidence of people doing so badly when eating this form of pemmican.
The RVAFers you mention ate in fact the usual form of pemmican where the meat is dried at temperatures above 40 °C (104 °F) and the fat rendered above boiling water temperature, not to mention the quality ( heavily grain fed) of the fat and meat.
That said I do not disagree with your concern about the general RAWPALEO concept and do not advocate to adopt this kind of food as usual food but I definitely consider this "raw" pemmican concept of very high interest for all RPDers in specific circumstances such as travel etc.
I don`t have the slightest problem with RPDers using pemmican as a 2nd-rate food while travelling. Though, IMO, given past reports, it`s only useful in that regard for those raw zero-carbers who do much worse on any raw carbs than on some cooked foods. Raw omnivores would be best placed to eat raw fruits instead for a short time, which are generally easily available while travelling.
Judging from the negative reports of RVAFers, plenty of them ate pemmican from grassfed meat sources but still had various issues. Plus, while quite a number of of them have eaten the dried-meat portion of pemmican in raw form(as defined by raw food guidelines, less than 40 degrees celsius), the vast majority have heated pemmican to high temperatures well above what could be scientifically called "raw". Lex himself stated that for long term storage the fat in pemmican had to be heated to 250 degrees fahrenheit. As for William, when in the past pressed about temperatures he used, he mentioned 200 degrees fahrenheit plus for the fat; judging from past posts in which he claimed that tallow was raw and couldn`t be considered to have been heated until it was heated over 300 degrees fahrenheit, he seems to have a different notion of what "raw" really means compared to everybody else. Now, Paleophil mentioned heating pemmican at much lower temperatures(I think much less than boiling point of water?) and that could be considered much less harmful, though not on a par with standard raw meats/fats of course.
-
Complex carbohydrates that are not easily digested feed harmful bacteria in our intestines causing them to overgrow producing by products and inflaming the intestine wall. The diet works by starving out these bacteria and restoring the balance of bacteria in our gut.
The Specific Carbohydrate Diet™ is biologically correct because it is species appropriate. The allowed foods are mainly those that early man ate before agriculture began. The diet we evolved to eat over millions of years was predominantly one of meat, fish, eggs, vegetables, nuts, low-sugar fruits. Our modern diet including starches, grains, pasta, legumes, and breads has only been consumed for a mere 10,000 years. In the last hundred years the increase in complex sugars and chemical additives in the diet has led to a huge increase in health problems ranging from severe bowel disorders to obesity and brain function disorders. We have not adapted to eat this modern diet as there has not been enough time for natural selection to operate. It therefore makes sense to eat the diet we evolved with.
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/beginners_guide/beginners.htm
The rationale of the diet, as described in Breaking the Vicious Cycle, is as follows:
1. When the body receives complex carbohydrates (disaccharides or polysaccharides) these substances must be broken down before they can be absorbed.
2. In the body of a person who is not able to break these substances down efficiently, an influx of undigested material causes harmful bacteria to flourish.
3. Bacterial overgrowth is accordingly followed by a significant increase in the waste and other irritants they produce.
4. Irritation in the lining of the digestive tract results in the overproduction of mucus and injury to the digestive tract, which in turn causes malabsorption and makes it even more difficult to maintain proper digestion.
The purpose of the diet is to break the ongoing cycle caused by an overpopulation of harmful bacteria in the gut. When the body is able to absorb the proper nutrients from simple sugars and other carbohydrates that are easy to digest, the inflammation and other complications caused by many auto-immune diseases can be lessened. The goal is to rid the body of complex saccharides so that the gut will be able to heal itself and enable further healing to occur.
The method of the diet is to keep the bacterial flora well balanced and to allow the gut to digest all of the food it is given, thereby starving out the harmful bacteria.
Certain foods, such as commercial syrups and sugars, starchy vegetables, and dairy products are not allowed while on the diet. Other foods, such as fruits, greens, animal protein, and nuts are allowed.
A plethora of people benefit from substantial reduction or even elimination of complex carbs.
-
^This is why if you partake in starch it needs to be fermented preferably for a week or 2(maybe longer). Just about every traditional culture ferments starch before they eat it and this is why they suffer very little problems from them imo. Fermenting grains turns something that is full of bullshit and generally unhealthy into a nutritious food with very little negative effects
-
Thanks for chiming in cliff - I've been thinking about long-soaking the tubers etc., so you've given me a nice cue. Do you have experience with fermenting starches, particularly roots/tubers (as opposed to grains) and do you simply long-soak them?
-
I don't know of any clear cut evidence of people doing so badly when eating this form of pemmican.
me, i am one.. i can promise you the pemmican i made was 'raw'... both meat and fat were left at 85F (3 days for the lean, 1 hour for the fat)... so the fat was not really rendered, just softened and then blended to a viscous liquid. i even tried it with the same lean mixed with raw bone marrow (not warmed, just fresh and mushed in).
one meal of this, and the intestinal inflammation that will follow is beyond painful. pain aside, well.. there's more. these symptoms are just as bad and i think quicker onset as any starch or grain...
-
just wanted to report on a little experiment i did yesterday. i had a few days off, so i decided to experiment with eating some cooked foods again to see if i could tolerate them. i decided to cook one organic parsnip with a slice of onion and some grass-fed bone broth (that i got for free from a farm). i added enough water to cover it all in my little crock pot and put it on low for an hour. it actually went down ok which surprised me. but, an hour or so after eating it, some of my candida issues came back (just kinda itchy all over). but i was surprised it digested without major issues. anyways, im not going to be doing it again most likely because it didn't make me feel good (just not overtly bad), but i thought i'd add this to the discussion.
-
Thanks for chiming in cliff - I've been thinking about long-soaking the tubers etc., so you've given me a nice cue. Do you have experience with fermenting starches, particularly roots/tubers (as opposed to grains) and do you simply long-soak them?
I was watching a show on TV, No Reservations With Anthony Bourdain I believe, where they visited a tribe of hunter/gatherers. The women in the tribe would chew on a root until it became a paste in their mouth and then spit it in a bowl. They did this for hours as a group until they had a large amount of the partially digested (salivary enzymes) root. This was then allowed to sit and ferment and eventually eaten or drank (can't remember which). I believe the Hawaiian dish Poi is made in a similar manner. You could try something similar. :)
-
me, i am one.. i can promise you the pemmican i made was 'raw'... both meat and fat were left at 85F (3 days for the lean, 1 hour for the fat)... so the fat was not really rendered, just softened and then blended to a viscous liquid. i even tried it with the same lean mixed with raw bone marrow (not warmed, just fresh and mushed in).
You are braver than I - I stay as close as possible to the traditional pemmican sold to the Hudson's Bay Co. Just eating the stuff is experiment enough for me; trying a new recipe is too much.
-
why is this brave?... it's the most raw version of pemmican i could think of...
-
prior to the above i had tried rendering the fat as tradition... i used the lowest oven setting (200F) with the door widely open, so i don't know the actual temp of the fat... this was disastrous, hence the above..
i was convinced pemmican was going to be my miracle food as supposedly even a child can eat as a first food... quite the contrary in my case!
-
Thanks for chiming in cliff - I've been thinking about long-soaking the tubers etc., so you've given me a nice cue. Do you have experience with fermenting starches, particularly roots/tubers (as opposed to grains) and do you simply long-soak them?
I personally buy my bread from a baker who ferments the dough for 1 month.
Aborigines in Australia bury sweet potato's to allow them to ferment before eating them. Not too sure on other traditional peoples methods but I'm sure many have experimented or utilize fermented tubers/roots etc.
-
I think roots are common in some kimchi's
heres one I found quickly
http://weirdcombinations.com/2009/11/root-vegetable-kimchi/
perhaps one could use other roots as well. Carrots and beets for sure.
-
I'd think before accepting the words of 'a man with a seagull on his head', he's bound to be talking crap at least some of the time... But yeah, in the olden days they used to put all grains through a lot of processing before they'd eat them. Soaking, Heat, Fermentation etc...
-
why is this brave?... it's the most raw version of pemmican i could think of...
Unlike Tyler, I respect the wisdom of those who made pemmican for generations, and think that they made it safe. I never read that the traditional pemmican hurt anyone.
prior to the above i had tried rendering the fat as tradition... i used the lowest oven setting (200F) with the door widely open, so i don't know the actual temp of the fat... this was disastrous, hence the above..
delfuego tried that too - didn't work for him either, he didn't say why. I tried rendering in oven at low temperature of 170F, and the fat just rotted. Horrible smell. Threw it out. My guess was that this was caused by uneven heating, so some of it didn't get hot enough quick enough to stop microbial action.
I assume from that that fat is more perishable than anyone tells.
i was convinced pemmican was going to be my miracle food as supposedly even a child can eat as a first food... quite the contrary in my case!
I thought they were talking about raw meat chewed by Mother to a paste.
It is and has been a miracle food for me, but I don't believe that any of us are making it quite the same as the Indians did. The only descriptions I can think of are by Stefansson, the gov't. employed a male historian who read descriptions by Hudson's Bay factors, not the sort of people who appreciated the fine art of making food-as-medicine.
People write that jerky made in a Lex box tastes better than that in an Excalibur dryer; Satya, being married to an electronics engineer, thought to measure the electromagnetic field around her Excalibur dryer, and found a very intense field, so I did the same (I have a Gauss meter). My meter screams and the needle pegs when in the dryer. Same when I turn on my oven.
In comparison, the heat source in a Lex dryer shows practically zero reading of EM radiation, so the jerky made in a Lex box should be the most similar to that made by Indians.
I intend to rebuild my Lex dryer, and use it instead of the Excalibur.
Don't yet know what to do rendering tallow without EM radiation, maybe use my camping propane stove...
Note that Olle Johanssen at the Karolinska Institute, Sweden, found that man-made electromagnetic radiation is bad. All of it, IIRC.
The more I learn, the more I learn that there is more to learn. ;)
-
This was a post by that retarded raw vegan troll, DurianRider, so has been deleted. Since cherimoya has quoted your post, I should add that AV has long since changed his recommendations re a few occasional cooked starches for some rare individuals and now recommends all-raw instead, for everyone.*TylerDurden
-
So anyone out there that follows AV like I do and thinks you have to be 100% raw and feeling crap, then please take AV's advice and read his books again, preferably with some local organic french sticks and raw honey! :-*
Don't bakers almost always use salt? Also, do you have a protocol regarding digestion times before eating meat again?
-
I eat baked potatoes daily and often rice, boiled corn and bananas and dates. ALWAYS ORGANIC. no salt or oil.
I went to Aajonus's talk last year in Australia and he said its fine to eat cooked starches BUT!!!, ONLY if you crave them. The audience was suprised and then AV said 'you Aussies obviously have not read by book 'we want to live' or you havent read it properly!! Please read it over and in more detail and you will understand this concept better'...AV said it all with charm and gently. A lot of us had been trying to be 100% raw and just feeling so weak and depressed because we thought we couldnt eat cooked starches. That night, for a few of that stayed overnight, AV organised some raw honey, organic white bread baguettes, lots of unsalted raw butter. We had a primal french stick party! AV didnt eat any cos he was violently ill and spent the night in the bath tub vomiting and with diaoreaha unfortunately. We all had our own versions of why that was.
I felt so relieved that I didnt have to be so rigid and carb phobic and now that I eat more cooked starches and less meat, I feel way better off and I have lost the spare tyre around my mid section and have put on more muscle from the gym workouts due to being more 'carbed' up and being able to train harder. Health wise I dont have the bloating and constipation that the low fiber version of paleo gives. High fiber paleo works way better if you want a slim, muscular and tight body.AV said that some people just simply do better on low processed cooked starches like organic potatoes, millet, corn etc.
Good luck preaching that stuff around here. Generally, we get our carbs from fruit, raw honey, and liver.
-
Don't bakers almost always use salt? Also, do you have a protocol regarding digestion times before eating meat again?
Aajonus writes that because of the gluten, the salt is hardly absorbed. He doesn't specify the time after which you could eat meat again. Usually he recommends waiting at least one hour if things shouldn't be eaten together.
-
me, i am one.. i can promise you the pemmican i made was 'raw'... both meat and fat were left at 85F (3 days for the lean, 1 hour for the fat)... so the fat was not really rendered, just softened and then blended to a viscous liquid. i even tried it with the same lean mixed with raw bone marrow (not warmed, just fresh and mushed in).
one meal of this, and the intestinal inflammation that will follow is beyond painful. pain aside, well.. there's more. these symptoms are just as bad and i think quicker onset as any starch or grain...
Ioanna, I'm wondering. By the time the "raw" pemmican had such adverse effects on you, didn't you experience more or less similar painful intestinal inflammation after eating your meat and fat just as it is, namely plain raw?
In my opinion even eating the best and most perfect food might result in such symptoms initially when trying to switch on RPD for people suffering from intestinal disorders and inflammation.
Once your organism gets more appropriate RP food ( to be eaten initially in small quantities to limit the inflammation) for a while bowel recovering should take place and symptoms progressively disappear...
So, in other words, maybe your experience does not mean that "raw" pemmican is really that bad, just that by the time you tried it you were not able to digest it. One way to test this hypothesis would be you try it again later on.
-
The trouble with the above claim is that plenty of long-term RPDers also get problems with pemmican-consumption(even at low temps), implying that pemmican is extremely unhealthy. And most rpd newbies have negligible issues with genuinely healthy raw foods when they first start, but often get nasty reactions to any cooked/heated foods, pemmican or otherwise.
-
This was a post by that retarded raw vegan troll, DurianRider, so has been deleted. Since cherimoya has quoted your post, I should add that AV has long since changed his recommendations re cooked starches for some very rare individuals and now recommends all-raw instead.
Whoops, I should of known with the signature "good time instead of long time" thing its really absurd that vegans see a raw meat diet as some kind of addictive or pleasure diet, ironic. I guess I've heard alot of accounts of people consuming cooked starch with butter or whatever, and missed the sarcasm. I know I hear those folks go on about how one can't live without carbs for long or some nonsense and that is why *AV followers* always eating breads and such. I doubt its his GF (who has the same biting attitude -even to vegan followers who are struggling-but doesn't have the same sarcasm or joy in role play to my knowledge) which makes all the talk about men coming inside of her/him on the other thread really disturbing!
-
AV originally only recommended cooked starches to a few people and then it was generally advised to be eaten in small amounts in order to lower effects of detoxes from cooked diets. I've been told that AV doesn't recommend such to any degree, any more.
-
I eat baked potatoes daily and often rice, boiled corn and bananas and dates. ALWAYS ORGANIC. no salt or oil.
I went to Aajonus's talk last year in Australia and he said its fine to eat cooked starches BUT!!!, ONLY if you crave them. The audience was suprised and then AV said 'you Aussies obviously have not read by book 'we want to live' or you havent read it properly!! Please read it over and in more detail and you will understand this concept better'...AV said it all with charm and gently. A lot of us had been trying to be 100% raw and just feeling so weak and depressed because we thought we couldnt eat cooked starches. That night, for a few of that stayed overnight, AV organised some raw honey, organic white bread baguettes, lots of unsalted raw butter. We had a primal french stick party! AV didnt eat any cos he was violently ill and spent the night in the bath tub vomiting and with diaoreaha unfortunately. We all had our own versions of why that was.
I felt so relieved that I didnt have to be so rigid and carb phobic and now that I eat more cooked starches and less meat, I feel way better off and I have lost the spare tyre around my mid section and have put on more muscle from the gym workouts due to being more 'carbed' up and being able to train harder. Health wise I dont have the bloating and constipation that the low fiber version of paleo gives. High fiber paleo works way better if you want a slim, muscular and tight body.AV said that some people just simply do better on low processed cooked starches like organic potatoes, millet, corn etc.
Wow. Is this what Harley does in his spare time? All that lifestyle preaching, and look what level he's sunken to. What a douche.
P.S. Geoff, don't delete his account right away, it might be worth seeing what other antics he resorts to. Could be quite entertaining, as he seems to be quite a creative writer. Funny stories to say the least.
-
The trouble with the above claim is that plenty of long-term RPDers also get problems with pemmican-consumption(even at low temps), implying that pemmican is extremely unhealthy.
Remarkable that so many people have cured incurable diseases by using this so-called "extremely unhealthy" pemmican. Wonder what it is that they really ate?
And most rpd newbies have negligible issues with genuinely healthy raw foods when they first start, but often get nasty reactions to any cooked/heated foods, pemmican or otherwise.
Right!. So don't heat your pemmican.
-
Remarkable that so many people have cured incurable diseases by using this so-called "extremely unhealthy" pemmican. Wonder what it is that they really ate?
Unfortunately, your above statement is an outright lie. And given multiple RVAFers' reports re pemmican being unhealthy for them one can see that.
Right!. So don't heat your pemmican.
Unfortunately, as previously pointed out by r*t*rds such as yourself, to make proper pemmican one has to heat it well above the point one can consider it to be raw(ie 200 degrees fahrenheit plus)
-
TD do really have to use language like the above?
It's very off putting.
-
TD do really have to use language like the above?
It's very off putting.
Sorry, I got rather exasperated,which is hardly surprising. I mean William has acted just like a troll something like several hundred times since he's started here. Well, there are politer, more ruthless alternatives to the above, none of which William will like, if he continues in this way.
-
William has acted just like a troll something like several hundred times since he's started here. Well, there are politer, more ruthless alternatives to the above, none of which William will like, if he continues in this way.
I tell the truth. Your reaction says more about you than it does about me. (insert finger icon here)
-
William and Tyler, neither of you is a true troll since you both discuss actual issues when you're not fighting. How about you reserve your insults of each other for private messaging, or better yet, just skip the insults?