Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: miles on April 10, 2010, 05:56:46 am
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Ich bin bedenken den Gebrauch eines sunbed während der Wintermonate. Für Vitamin D.
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I wouldn't use a sunbed even in the winter. Just eat lots of fish and eggs they contain vitamin D.
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I would never use a sunbed. (im afraid somebody or something will lock the door and im gona burn like a grilled chiken) :o
In a winter our skin can produce just a little amount of vitamin D, but I think when you eat organ meat and animal fat daily, you shouldnt have deficiency.
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I took human nutrition class and according to their sources it was 10% absorption rate for vitamin D
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I took human nutrition class and according to their sources it was 10% absorption rate for vitamin D
From the organ meats and the animal fats or from the sunbeds? Or could the class's source possibly have been referring to capsules that were heated or spoons of the liquid form? In all cases that I just stated?
I would never use a sunbed. (im afraid somebody or something will lock the door and im gona burn like a grilled chiken) :o
In a winter our skin can produce just a little amount of vitamin D, but I think when you eat organ meat and animal fat daily, you shouldnt have deficiency.
I tried a sun-bed in a professional place for five minutes over two decades ago. In that amount of time it baked my bones and liver to a crisp I think, I itched inside like there was no tomorrow and got so deeply nauseas, both those symptoms especially that type of itching felt like the worst nightmare. Problems I may have in my bones now may have been triggered by that light exposure. My skin was very thin (my bones so thin I asked for osteoporosis exam around that time) and I had no fat on my body and very little muscle. I was vegetarian (no egg, fish, meat, honey etc). Being paleo might help protecting from that.
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I think thats because normally in sunny months skin can produce 80-100% daily request for the vitamin, so body dont have to absort it from food. If there is no sun, the absortion should be more efficient.
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Sunbeds
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I've heard reports that the traditional medical groups are really coming down on tanning salons, saying that no amount is healthy.
and I've also heard the opposite from some hygienist/frutiarian types that will actually recommend artificial tanning over D supplementation in times of no possible sun exposure.
I think with the first, there is some misunderstanding of how the sun/artificial light will successfully push toxins through the skin but not necessarily be the source. Perhaps the artificial light creates some kind of mutation with this process, but even so the medical community links traditional sun exposure (minus sunscreen) with skin cancer as well. Whereas it is clear that the peoples who have maintained their traditional diets do not succumb to such things, even with the supposed shifting harmful UVs. That said, the frutarian types tend to have dried out alligator type skin also, so eating high fats/minerals from animal foods, is probably more necessary than just abstaining from modern toxins.
Theres a few different types of models for equipment, again according to these new medical rulings, there isn't much difference for the higher priced versions. I've done one of them where you stand up and the whole cylinder lights up and circulates air. Its actually kind of a wonderful experience, but I've never really thought to go back for it. Well, actually I did but just got lazy and held out for this spring, and the natural rays are working their magic.
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I would use one instead of vitamin D supplements.
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One thing is(from what I've read).. Initially they tried to make sunbeds give off similar radiation to the sun, but now that people think that the sun is damaging to skin, they're altering the sun-beds, making them more and more different to the sun in order to make them 'safer'. It seems they're changing the frequencies and ranges of the radiation further and further from the natural solar radiation in an attempt to stop it causing damage to the skin. This seems bad. Also... Most people seem to put sunscreen on before they go in them(wtf!?), so I expect they up the power for that reason too.
Is there anyone here who doesn't have a garden and finds another way to get relaxed, full or near-full body exposure to the sun close to their home? I have a garden at the moment, sheltered from view but open to the sun. In a few months however I'll likely be living in a more built up area with no garden. In the winter like I said I'll likely use sunbeds, but what about the summer when I can get natural rays, I'm not sure what I'll do. I'd like to be able to get my sunbathing done after eating, while I'm digesting my food and I'd like to not have to make some big trek in order to find a sun-bathing spot, and be pretty much stationary.
[Btw Gep, who is your profile picture?]
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Also... Most people seem to put sunscreen on before they go in them(wtf!?)
lol
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They put sunscreen, because they dont understand what it is :D I asked once my friend why is she doing that before going to sunbed, and she replied 'For a better effect, of course!' lol
[miles: and whos on yours? :P
I dont know him...but I definitely would like to l) ]
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[Heh heh. What did you Google?
My picture is of Toshihiko Koga after winning the Gold medal in the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, by Hantei(not hentai), referee's decision.]
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[by Hantei(not hentai)]
;D ;D ;D
[I found it while watching an amateur photo galleries :) ]
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Do 'you people' think it's bad sunbathing in chilly weather(windy, slight/drifting mild cloud coverage, early spring)? I was wondering, because people go red as the blood pumps to the surface in a reaction to the stimulation/damage etcetera from the sun. But if it's chilly/windy and even though the sun is beating down it stays cold then the blood won't go to the surface, it'll stay behind the fat until after the bather's covered up and warmed up. I was wondering if this might be negative and cause 'sun burn', because by the time the blood is at the skin, the damage has already been done and it's too late for the body to adapt with melanin. I wouldn't have thought the 'Vitamin D' synthesis would be so effective either.
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"I took human nutrition class and according to their sources it was 10% absorption rate for vitamin D"; "Sunbeds" -Sven
Do you mean that: In a sun-bed, 10% of the energy reaching you is the sort which converted to vitamin D?
If so, do you know how this compares to the sun?
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I did also wonder how well the eyelids do at protecting the eyes from sun-damage.
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It has a 10% absorption rate from the light emitted from the sunbed(whereas the sun can be 80%-100%). To figure out the real absorption rate we would have to take- (total absorption rate from sunbed divided by total energy output of sunbed) divided that by (total absorption rate from sun divided by total energy output of sun) which would give us the effective absorption comparison which would come out to something small. I will look through my old notes and powerpoints tonight and get you the exact numbers and a source. keep posted.
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chilly weather(windy, slight/drifting mild cloud coverage, early spring)? I was wondering, because people go red as the blood pumps to the surface in a reaction to the stimulation/damage etcetera from the sun. But if it's chilly/windy and even though the sun is beating down it stays cold then the blood won't go to the surface, it'll stay behind the fat until after the bather's covered up and warmed up. I was wondering if this might be negative and cause 'sun burn', because by the time the blood is at the skin, the damage has already been done and it's too late for the body to adapt with melanin. I wouldn't have thought the 'Vitamin D' synthesis would be so
I don't know. It may help the majority of people. As a vegan teen I still burnt to a crisp up North in the cool breezy not too bright Springtime with non-vegan friend who in the same time only got barely noticeable tan. None of us here on the forum are vegans or cooked meat eaters, so what you suggest could do the trick. Good theory :)
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I Like to get out as soon as its tolerable to do so at the tail end of winter. I'm not positive at this time if one can manufacture D as there is a variety of differing opinions but it seems to be helpful. I tend not to bathe at these temps (~45-50F) but just do some kind of activity with my shirt off.
I think getting out in chillier temps, and definitely in early spring ~60F is sort of necessary, otherwise one will have less cumulative exposure/cells to produce melanin and therefore (for light skinned people) burn even spending a few hrs under the hot summer sun or vacationing in the tropics or whatever.
Diet of course plays a major role. I find even after major exposure this time of year, light-burns go away mostly overnight with minimal symptoms and no peeling. The sunburn is actually just the blood filling up the capilaries, and is merely more overtaxed than the regular process of supplying the repair/melanin/appropriate level of exposure.
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in early spring ~60F is sort of necessary, otherwise one will have less cumulative exposure/cells to produce melanin and therefore (for light skinned people) burn even spending a few hrs under the hot summer sun or vacationing in the tropics or whatever.
Diet of course plays a major role. I find even after major exposure this time of year, light-burns go away
I used to burn in 15-30 minutes, bad burns, and I mean in the evening. The sun doesn't really attract me. I have built up tolerance though, through my diet now, age, but previously with lots of good lotion and only early morning sun in the North.
I was just reading something else earlier about getting benefit from sun. I'd like to share it:
Hilarion on Parkinsons' Disease
Excerpt from the Hilarion Summer Solstice 2009 Channeling, channeled by Jon C Fox (of Hilarion.com).
Hilarion : Parkinsons', has some interesting characteristics, at a spiritual level that have not been sufficiently explored. Only recently, with the injection of laser light into animals with Parkinsons', has this come forward. It is often a deficiency of blue light. That is an important aspect of this. Many of the things that can be helpful in this regard, are not fully understood. But exposure to sunlight, and a willingness to allow the sun energy to sit on the skin, and for 48 hours without bathing or showering afterwards, can be very helpful. This does not mean that someone with Parkinsons', should get sunburnt. 45 minutes a day, preferably completely nude, would be very helpful here. 2 hours, no bathing or showering, then exposure to sun, then 48 hours without bathing or showering. Intent to be to allow that vitamin D to be fully absorbed. Also, the effects of the sun. The sun has a significant portion of its spectrum, in the blue area, and some of this is to some extent filtered, so it is best that one does not filter it, by being outside, this would be helpful. If filtration, particularly of certain portions of the violet spectrum and in particular ultraviolet B, are filtered by window glass. The Parkinsons patient, should not be exposed to sunlight filtered through window glass if at all possible. This will create excess UV A, which counteracts the UV B, and will to some extent reduce the benefits of the blue radiation that was received while in the sun.
Other aspects that can be tremendously helpful here, are the simple things that come from the regenerative diet that has raw fats in it, to built nerves. Parkinsons' is a destruction of certain nerve areas in the brain, and to rebuild these is necessary. Hence the cleansing aspects, through various means, in particular oxygen containing substances, has proved valuable. But the rebuilding aspect, has not been sufficiently explored. In particular, the raw fats that that individual are then best designed for, these can be from a variety of sources, but one of those we see as very helpful for many Parkinsons' patients, is that from raw
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RawZi, did you have just sunburns or also skin rash? im asking because two of my friends are vegan and both are allergic to the sun.
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What do you think about the 'going 48hrs without bathing/showing after sunbathing part'? How much of an effect do you think this would have? Do you understand it at all?
Also... If it is physically comfortable to do so, do you think it is safe to lie face-up with the sun beating down on one's face, with only the eyelids to cover the eyes?
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Edit: I'm getting really pissed off.. I've been reading tons of web-pages. Whenever people say shower or bathe, they just assume that soap is used, so I can not figure out if showering/bathing is a problem if you don't use soap... It's pretty definite that washing with soap is a problem, but just with water I can not figure out...
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If you use just hot water that will be enough to melt the oils and vitamin D on the skin. Cold water may not be so effective.
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RawZi, did you have just sunburns or also skin rash? im asking because two of my friends are vegan and both are allergic to the sun.
I got itching, watery blisters, leathery skin (after), peeling, fever, nausea, it depends but at least the blisters I think every time. I burnt bad whether I was active or not. I was just thinking maybe it was activity, but that Spring one I mentioned I was laying to be out of the breeze, it was cool enough out. My breasts developed early and I had been wearing bras for years. It was hard to wear a bra until I was over that burn, as I was wearing a bikini that covered less when I got the burn. Thankfully I don't think I even knew bras were for holding breasts up. By my mid to late teens I had permanent scarring on my chest (upper plate area) from sunburn.
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If you use just hot water that will be enough to melt the oils and vitamin D on the skin. Cold water may not be so effective.
I could only use perfectly cold water without a hint of warmth after burning i.e.sun. Maybe it was my body preserving what little D was there.
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What do you think about the 'going 48hrs without bathing/showing after sunbathing part'? How much of an effect do you think this would have? Do you understand it at all?
Also... If it is physically comfortable to do so, do you think it is safe to lie face-up with the sun beating down on one's face, with only the eyelids to cover the eyes?
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Edit: I'm getting really pissed off.. I've been reading tons of web-pages. Whenever people say shower or bathe, they just assume that soap is used, so I can not figure out if showering/bathing is a problem if you don't use soap... It's pretty definite that washing with soap is a problem, but just with water I can not figure out...
There's this guy Charles on GI2MR. He's close friends with Dhrumil, GI2MR's creator. Charles is likely a moderator there. He had posted an article about not using soap after sun, as it takes off the Vitamin D. I don't think he liked when I posted a short quip on that discussion that went on pages and pages about having used very fermented raw cream instead of soap that day, with maggots in it. The cream worked though. Not only was my skin clean from its use, but soft like a baby.
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What do you think about the 'going 48hrs without bathing/showing after sunbathing part'? How much of an effect do you think this would have? Do you understand it at all?
Again I'm not sure about D absorbtion, but I shower on a regular almost daily basis and use soap (bronners). Often this is right after working out/sun exposure. My skin is getting plenty darker and my D levels are fine/improving. If I have some minor burn I will instinctually not use soap there, and usually tend to shower in ice cold water anyway, but have picked up some bad habits with preferring warm/hot water this winter. I've gone long periods without soap and the consesus is - is that I smell terribly even if I can't notice it - but that is another thing. I think this is a non issue, but if you are concered don't use anything abrasive on those parts and use cold water. There is no way spending time in beach water effects such things negatively.
Also... If it is physically comfortable to do so, do you think it is safe to lie face-up with the sun beating down on one's face, with only the eyelids to cover the eyes?
I'm comfused how else one might get sun. I've burned my nose but never my eyelids.
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Also... If it is physically comfortable to do so, do you think it is safe to lie face-up with the sun beating down on one's face, with only the eyelids to cover the eyes?
dr W. Bates recommend eyes sunbathing as a form of therapy, so it supposed to be good for eyes. The question is for how long its safe.
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Wouldn't one also lose a lot of their skin-surface oils on clothes, soft bedding and through sweating? Would there be much left to be lost from washing?
Also how does the UVA:UVB ratio of sunbeds compare to that of the sun?
Woah... Some doctors have apparently prescribed people to use sun-bed salons, and even to get home sun-beds. That would be neat.
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ICNIRP recommendations
In its 2003 publication ICNIRP recommends against the use of UV-emitting appliances for tanning or other non-medical purposes. ICNIRP states that the following groups are at particularly high risk of incurring adverse health effects from UV, and therefore should be particularly counseled against the use of tanning appliances:
People who have skin phototypes I or II;
Children (i.e., less than 18 years of age);
People who have large numbers of nevi (moles);
Persons who tend to freckle;
Individuals who have a history of frequent childhood sunburn;
People who have pre-malignant or malignant skin lesions;
People who have sun-damaged skin;
Those who are wearing cosmetics. These may enhance their sensitivity to UV exposure; and
Persons taking medications. In this case they should seek advice from their physician to determine if the medication will make them UV-sensitive.
What are skin phototypes I and II?
Also how does the UVA:UVB ratio of sunbeds compare to that of the sun?
I imagine it varies, depending on which brand sunbed and which model sunbed.
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Phototypes I&II are just people considered to be vulnerable to burning, based on individual history and physical appearance. Phototypes range I-VI.
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Phototypes I&II are just people considered to be vulnerable to burning, based on individual history
I wish someone told me that before I spent five minutes in the sunbed. The guy (owner of the salon) told me the special waves (was it B?) were safer than all their previous models and recommendable to anyone for thirty minutes a first go. Maybe it would have .. killed? ... me? I'm glad I didn't listen often to people I didn't know. Damn the person who insisted I should go there in the first place, that it would be good for me.
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Is there a particular type of fat which the body prefers to use for the skin-surface?
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Is there a particular type of fat which the body prefers to use for the skin-surface?
I don't know, but I ate much of my fat from meat as a child, but I burned terrible. The meat was cooked. I ate marrow with beef and veal bones. I ate fat with steak. I ate chicken fat spread on bread. I also got terrible acne. Lay people thought I had ... gosh knows what ... whatever the worst skin plague was they could think of or chicken pox 24/7/365.
Later I was vegan. My skin change then came within a month. I got my fat from nuts or seeds, whole grains and sometimes olive oil. I still got some bad burns. I also got like plugs of wax from time to time in various pores. There was a time there I was getting the wax things in my limbs. My nutrition was very poor then. I only remember eating fruit then, so I guess that's not a testimony of any fat. The last years of my vegan-hood my skin had orange oil pouring from it and felt burning, tight and dry.
On raw grass grazed butter for most of my fat, my skin stopped being alien fluorescent orange, stopped being blotchy, stopping feeling opposite strange odd temperatures all at the same time, stopped feeling too tight, stopped burning and started feeling like it did when I was a small child before dentistry, felt good. My skin change here also happened in a month.
I try raw coconut fat, EVOO, suet, marrow etc from time to time. I burn with EVOO, although I know some ppl swear by it. Raw coconut oil makes my skin soft but can break out my face. I know people who swear by it to use as a topical sunscreen. Suet, I guess that's good, but strange. I think fresh marrow works pretty well. Raw cream and butter I think are tops for me, and maybe deep cold water fish.
I've read of people using lard on their skin, and finding it very helpful. Generally I didn't use anything on my skin till a couple of days ago. I did use sunscreen when I burned. A few days ago, to the exposed areas only, I've been applying a cream that's a mixture of raw butter, raw coconut and a few other herbs. People like the smell and puppies love the taste. It's supposed to make a difference in the skin in twenty-four hours. It looks shiny/oily when I put it on. Otherwise, I notice no difference.
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I couldn't find my notes so I went to talk to my old professor: you are able to obtain viamin D from sunbeds as long as they are using the proper wavelength, you would have to ask the providers if they are using them or not they will most likely know. The amount comparable to the sun if using the proper wavelength is anywhere from 10-25% absorption rate, as the sun is around 80%-100%.
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I couldn't find my notes so I went to talk to my old professor: you are able to obtain viamin D from sunbeds as long as they are using the proper wavelength, you would have to ask the providers if they are using them or not they will most likely know. The amount comparable to the sun if using the proper wavelength is anywhere from 10-25% absorption rate, as the sun is around 80%-100%.
Actually, I have read that the same frequencies that cause tanning are the ones that cause vitamin D production. I don't really know if it's possible to have 1 without the other.
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The vitamin d council have quite a bit of info on sunbeds. I became interested because I am interested in remaining young and avoiding diseases of aging. I am 61 and in good health. For 1 1/2 year I follow a personally adapted wap type diet eg high fat, broths, raw and some femented food. I have just been able to access raw milk so am making that (with raw egg yolks) the foundation of my diet. I don;t mind a bit of meat but I didn't like it raw when I tried it out of curiosity. I have come to this forum for debate on side issues like this present one of sunbeds.
The sunbed place I go to in the uk, well i can't imagine them know much of anything eg min wage employees. But the brand is the same as ones recommened at the vit d council. There is quite alot of evidence linking diseases to latitude. People like the inuit would be out in the sun all day so have longer periods to get the rays. Also they ate fermented fish oils (I take fermented cod liver oil supplement). I only started the sun bed this winter. And i strictly limit my time usually only 6 minutes. My feeling is the tan says you are getting the d. If anyone thinks this isn't true i'd be interested in hearing their thought. Personally I'd rather take the bed than take lab produced vit d. Seems more natural. I'm not convinced at this point that one can get enough d from food. Again am interested in others views.
The thing about the sunbed that sorta surprised me was the psychological effect. I really enjoy it! Its really relaxing. Maybe I've got a marginal bit of seasonal affective disorder I didn't know about but the bed definately raised my spirits.Sydney
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The vitamin d council have quite a bit of info on sunbeds. I became interested because I am interested in remaining young and avoiding diseases of aging.
Like many Canadians, I used to winter in Arizona where everybody is tanned all winter. They get sick and die anyway.
Diseases of aging were eliminated by Dr. Blake F. Donaldson for his patients. His book is out of print, but available last I saw through online used booksellers. "Strong Medicine" is part of the title.
I don't have any of the diseases of aging, most likely because I eat raw zero carb.
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I don't have any of the diseases of aging, most likely because I eat raw zero carb.
except heart disease...
sorry, i had to do it.
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except heart disease...
sorry, i had to do it.
No problem, it's in remission. :D
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Anyone using sunbeds this winter?
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Anyone using sunbeds this winter?
yeah, I just joined a conventional gym and you can use the beds (and get other perks like reduced priced smoothies! -v) for $20. I don't think they have the healthiest model (I've only really done the stand-up ones which cycle air and feel amazing) but I'm probably going to try it out. I take vit D softgells (now brand) as well now. I regret the late summer days I stayed indoors :/.
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dr W. Bates recommend eyes sunbathing as a form of therapy, so it supposed to be good for eyes. The question is for how long its safe.
If you are talking about the Bates method guy I think he suggests doing it with closed eyes or looking through the hands. His books are online.
I and my GF have been doing sungazing as per;
http://solarhealing.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlCJPxxKoaY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv1VPQr7GZ4
We have had fantastic results with her eyes improving quite a bit as per her visits to an eye doc and mine have improved also
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Personally I probably wouldn't do a sun tanning bed but there was a study done I believe in England many years ago where they used fluorescent bulbs that had been changed to give off a spectrum which was closer to natural sunlight as opposed to the (gross) cool white ones.
The bulbs were used in classrooms for children and the results were quite striking. Colds, flus etc (illnesses) reduced, children were more attentive, well behaved and their marks improved overall. Honestly I don't remember any other details, but I remember that I got some of those bulbs (fluorescent tubes) for my wood workshop and I did notice that it was much more comfortable to work in and felt better on the eyes. Cool white bulbs are not nice at all and are supposed to damage the eyes if used long term.
I remember I told my secretary about them so she switched the office bulbs and she reported it was much better. The bulbs were quite pricey but worth it.
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Yes I agree that some fluresent bulbs are harsh on the senses and I think they give off a bad energy,
I am a sunshine addict and if its not summer I will tan about once a week in a bed. these are the lower intensity thirty minuet beds and I will lay for 20 minuets, I wont use any lotion and treat my skin with coconut oil afterwards. I have been doing this since around the time I started this diet and I fell wonderful every time I leave the bed and I believe its good for me and I have known many people who experience great health benefits from tanning. The whole cancer thing is overblown , I think allot of the skin cancers associated with sun bathing is related to the use of toxic lotions and tanning oils which are know carcinogens.
We aren't much different from plant life we need to bask in the sun in order to bloom into our full glory, I let my kids run around all summer without any sunscreen and they developed a nice even tan and never burned. The nature of vitamin d as a fat soluble vitamin means that it can be stored for up to 6 months and that people in temperate climates should soak up enough rays during the sunny season to last them the whole winter, sadly with the addition of artificial vitamin d to children's formula and milk, antibiotics, ect; I often wonder if a lot of people have a damaged capacity to use the vitamin D they do absorb.
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I am all for tanning beds. I live in the north of Canada where we don`t have much sunshine, especially in the winter. I have been tanning regularly for about 3 years now (approximately 3 15-minute sessions a week), and tanning makes me feel amazing. In addition to a nice, golden, healthy-looking tan (I am a very white redhead and without tanning look like an anemic ghost), tanning (combined with a proper diet) completely eliminated my psoriasis patches from my elbows and knees and also significantly reduced depression and winter blues. I hardly ever get colds or flues now, which I think is due to a good vitamin D status. Interestingly enough, I used to suffer from regular colds back in the days when I was taking cod liver oil regularly (and eating grains!). Then I dropped cod liver oil (to reduce the amounts of PUFAs) and opted for tanning beds instead, and changed my diet to a low-carb lacto-paleo version with a significant amount of raw foods - and so far I am very very pleased with the results. I still have some psoriasis patches on my scalp, and I still have some issues with depression & anxiety, but these are a far cry from what I had before. My health has improved significantly.
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Wouldn't buying a sunlamp be less costly? That's what I did for the winter. I should carry it around with me throughout the house and let it be my only light source, besides windows.
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I should carry it around with me throughout the house and let it be my only light source, besides windows.
Microsoft Windows? tee hee
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Microsoft Windows? tee hee
That jokes too true to life, I can't laugh! :o
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That jokes too true to life, I can't laugh! :o
Don't be talkin! I'm face planted into this screen for waaaaaay too much of the day!!! ;D ;D ;D