Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet to Suit You => Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet => Topic started by: kurite on July 11, 2010, 04:17:24 pm
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Does anyone know if there is nutrient loss from blending fruits and honey into a smoothie?
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Some people believe that juicing helps make nutrients available, so you should be alright.
Would be a very small difference anyway, so if you like smoothies don't sweat it.
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The honey probably won't be damaged significantly as long as there is something to cushion it (e.g fruit). Oxidation might be something to consider.
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i blend every day. there is going to be some minor nutrient loss to oxidation. on the whole though blending almost certainly releases more nutrients than it destroys.
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i blend every day. there is going to be some minor nutrient loss to oxidation. on the whole though blending almost certainly releases more nutrients than it destroys.
So it's like chewing.
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So it's like chewing.
not exactly. chewing also releases saliva - blending does not.
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not exactly. chewing also releases saliva - blending does not.
So you are trying to protect the food from saliva, correct?
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So you are trying to protect the food from saliva, correct?
No, saliva is beneficial. Hes just saying that by making a smoothie your body doesn't release an apropriate amount of saliva which it would regularly do if you chew your whole, non-blended foods.
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No, saliva is beneficial. Hes just saying that by making a smoothie your body doesn't release an apropriate amount of saliva which it would regularly do if you chew your whole, non-blended foods.
I know, I am being Socratic to show how absurd the whole smoothie/juicing thing is. ;D
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So you are trying to protect the food from saliva, correct?
yeah in cases where you blend meat.
But im not sure if the blended meat is more digestible than regular chunks because they say ground meat is less digestible so I think
blended meat will be even worse...
But I still dont understand the logic ..
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yeah in cases where you blend meat.
But im not sure if the blended meat is more digestible than regular chunks because they say ground meat is less digestible so I think
blended meat will be even worse...
But I still dont understand the logic ..
I was just poking fun at proteus. If someone can explain to me the benefit of juicing or making smoothies then I will be interested. So far I am not satisfied with any of the answers.
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Smoothies with berries and raw eggs are a good breakfast / pre workout shake nothing special about it just taste and nutrients unless you are on a 1 meal a day diet or something.
+ they digest super fast :)
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I am being Socratic to show...
you are being a moron to show that you are a moron.
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If someone can explain to me the benefit of juicing or making smoothies then I will be interested.
nobody cares about you to be interested in wasting time explaining anything. you have done nothing to deserve help and you will not get it.
get your head out of your ass first, then when you're ready come back and beg on your knees.
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Smoothies with berries and raw eggs are a good breakfast / pre workout shake nothing special about it just taste and nutrients unless you are on a 1 meal a day diet or something.
+ they digest super fast :)
yeah smoothies are light on your digestive system and heavy on nutrition. i can pack a smoothie with 60 - 70 grams of protein and not feel slowed down by it a single bit.
in my opinion the key though ( if you don't want it to rob you of energy ) is to keep both the sugar and fat to a reasonalbe amount.
too much sugar causes a shock to your body with the effect of this narcotic feeling like you had about half a shot of vodka.
too much fat would probably rob you of some of the energy that you normally get from a good green smoothie, but it probably wouldn't be too bad. nothing like the horrible feeling after eating roasted solid food or even the drain you feel after eating lightly cooked ( simmered ) solid food.
this would be a sample smoothie for me ( in fact i just might have one after this post ):
* one whole orange, with outer portion of the skin peeled
* one whole raw egg
* 100 grams organic spinach
* 30 grams nutiva hemp protein
* 20 grams green superfood ( combination of "vitamineral green" and "pure synergy" )
* 50 grams animal protein powder ( combination of whey isolate, micellar casein and egg protein - all unflavored )
* one spoon bee pollen
* one gram ascorbic acid crystals ( Vitamin C )
links:
https://store.nutiva.com/hemp-protein/
http://www.healthforce.com/shop?page=shop.product_details&flypage=garden_flypage.tpl&product_id=6&category_id=1
http://www.thesynergycompany.com/ps_about.html
http://www.amazon.com/Syntrax-Nectar-Medical-Unflavored-1-Pound/dp/B001I1NSUY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1299771648&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Muscle-Feast-MC5-Hardcore-Micellar/dp/B002PYLOX6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1299771685&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Eggwhite-Protein-100%25-Pure-Unflavored/dp/B000RLKX3G/ref=sr_1_14?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1299771698&sr=1-14
http://www.amazon.com/Y-S-Organic-Bee-Farms-Granules/dp/B00014I80Y/ref=sr_1_5?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1299771811&sr=1-5
http://www.amazon.com/Ascorbic-Acid-Powder-Vitamin-Crystals/dp/B0002BB5V0/ref=sr_1_1?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1299771832&sr=1-1
i add water only as necessary to make it blend, i may or may not use water on any given day. if it comes out too warm from the blending i may blend two or three ice cubes in. i use water from a reverse osmosis system.
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you are being a moron to show that you are a moron.
Touchy touchy. You need to add some fish oil to your smoothies.
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nobody cares about you to be interested in wasting time explaining anything. you have done nothing to deserve help and you will not get it.
get your head out of your ass first, then when you're ready come back and beg on your knees.
Did I miss the vote? Or have you always spoken for everyone who reads the forum??
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nobody cares about you to be interested in wasting time explaining anything. you have done nothing to deserve help and you will not get it.
get your head out of your ass first, then when you're ready come back and beg on your knees.
Let's all be polite please.
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Like I said, I was just poking fun, not trying to insult or offend anyone. If I did I apologize.
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Like I said, I was just poking fun, not trying to insult or offend anyone. If I did I apologize.
whether blending is beneficial or not is a complex question. questions like that take decades to even start getting closer to the answer. when you claim that you "know" the answer you put yourself into the same category as fundamentalist christians and their kind who "know" that Jesus is Lord etc.
there are basically two kinds of people - those who THINK and those who "know", and you can't have it both ways. before you can start thinking you must accept that you do NOT know. and if you already know everything then why are you on a forum?
i personally think that green smoothies are beneficial. for one thing they make me feel good. check out this nutrition facts label from Enerfood green powder:
http://www.enerhealthbotanicals.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/nut-ener.jpg
calorie for calorie it has an order of magnitude more vitamins and minerals than most food. now YOU can chew wheat grass all day if you want, and i will simply toss a few spoons into my smoothie.
anyway i have to run out ...
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whether blending is beneficial or not is a complex question. questions like that take decades to even start getting closer to the answer. when you claim that you "know" the answer you put yourself into the same category as fundamentalist christians and their kind who "know" that Jesus is Lord etc.
there are basically two kinds of people - those who THINK and those who "know", and you can't have it both ways. before you can start thinking you must accept that you do NOT know. and if you already know everything then why are you on a forum?
You are accusing me of saying something I never said (re "knowing"). Here is everything I have said:
"So it's like chewing."
"So you are trying to protect the food from saliva, correct?"
"I know, I am being Socratic to show how absurd the whole smoothie/juicing thing is." (you didn't answer any of the questions I posed. why is that??)
"I was just poking fun at proteus. If someone can explain to me the benefit of juicing or making smoothies then I will be interested. So far I am not satisfied with any of the answers." (Here I am clearly showing my ignorance/lack of knowledge)
...until the conversation descended into the current morass.
I know little about smoothies, I never claimed to be an expert, and what I wrote clearly shows that that is the case. Nevertheless, I am unconvinced of the benefits of ingesting food in such a form. If you think smoothies have merit, then maybe you can convince me with reason/logic/evidence.
i personally think that green smoothies are beneficial. for one thing they make me feel good. check out this nutrition facts label from Enerfood green powder:
http://www.enerhealthbotanicals.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/nut-ener.jpg
calorie for calorie it has an order of magnitude more vitamins and minerals than most food. now YOU can chew wheat grass all day if you want, and i will simply toss a few spoons into my smoothie.
anyway i have to run out ...
I will look at your link, thank you.
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You are accusing me of saying something I never said (re "knowing").
yes you did:
I am being Socratic to show how absurd the whole smoothie/juicing thing is."
you suggested that smoothie/juicing is absurd. making a statement implies that you know what you're talking about.
you didn't answer any of the questions I posed.
what questions ? didn't you say that you were simply trolling ?
If you think smoothies have merit, then maybe you can convince me with reason/logic/evidence.
sure thing. paleos were estimated to consume about 100 grams of fiber a day - how much fiber do YOU consume ? a single smoothie i make contains 25 grams of fiber.
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yes you did:
you suggested that smoothie/juicing is absurd. making a statement implies that you know what you're talking about.
I do think it is absurd, based on what I know about it. But like I have also, said, I don't know much about smoothie juicing. There really is no point in arguing this, we both can see what I said pretty clearly.
Maybe the point in question is the word "absurd."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/absurd
1.
utterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish or false: an absurd explanation.
So yes, I find it smoothies and juicing senseless and illogical. But I am reading and asking questions on this thread because I am willing to consider that it might not be. If there is enough evidence that there is some sense to juicing, I may no longer consider it unreasonable.
Considering something absurd does not imply that one has knowledge of something, only that the knowledge that one does have (even if it is very little or incomplete) is insufficient to make sense of the subject being considered.
what questions ? didn't you say that you were simply trolling ?
" 'So it's like chewing.' "
"not exactly. chewing also releases saliva - blending does not."
Then I asked:
"So you are trying to protect the food from saliva, correct?"
I am still not sure what your answer might be to this. I thought that digestion began in the mouth, which means that chewing leads to better digestion due to the action of mastication (increased surface area of the food) as well as chemical breakdown from the food being bathed in saliva. Blending food means that a machine is doing the mastication part and the food can be consumed quickly, so there is less saliva mingling with the food. Of course, you could hold the blended food in your mouth and let the saliva flow for several seconds before swallowing, to allow the chemicals to go to work on the pre-masticated food. What are your thoughts on this?
sure thing. paleos were estimated to consume about 100 grams of fiber a day - how much fiber do YOU consume ? a single smoothie i make contains 25 grams of fiber.
I avoid fiber, but I get a little from fruits. Whole fruits and veggies have the correct amount of fiber for their digestion, you only have to worry about fiber if you are eating processed foods. But on the whole fiber is unimportant when eating paleo. May I ask for the source of your estimate of 100 grams of fiber a day for historic paleolithic humans?
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May I ask for the source of your estimate of 100 grams of fiber a day for historic paleolithic humans?
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=paleolithic+100+gram+fiber
Whole fruits and veggies have the correct amount of fiber for their digestion
are you trying to imply that fruits, vegetables and leafy greens have the same ratio of sugar to fiber ? for 100 grams of product apples have 10/2 grams of sugar/fiber while spinach leaf has 0/2 grams of sugar/fiber.
you only have to worry about fiber if you are eating processed foods.
so if you're getting one tenth of the fiber that your ancestors did it's not a problem because ... why ? where is the logic ?
But on the whole fiber is unimportant when eating paleo.
why ? what's so special about paleo that fiber is important to everybody else but not you ?
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I thought that digestion began in the mouth, which means that chewing leads to better digestion due to the action of mastication (increased surface area of the food) as well as chemical breakdown from the food being bathed in saliva.
correct. back in USSR we learned this in school at the age of 10 or so.
Blending food means that a machine is doing the mastication part and the food can be consumed quickly, so there is less saliva mingling with the food. Of course, you could hold the blended food in your mouth and let the saliva flow for several seconds before swallowing, to allow the chemicals to go to work on the pre-masticated food. What are your thoughts on this?
if you can do half as good a job chewing as Vitamix does blending then chewing is better. the Vitamix LIQUEFIES leafy greens.
it is recommended that you chew every bit of food 40 times or 40 seconds, and this is for normal regular food - not something like wheat grass, which is an order of magnitude more difficult to chew. it would take you an hour to chew one smoothie worth of wheatgrass and spinach halfway as well as a Vitamix will blend it in 30 seconds. Now if you have nothing ELSE to do with your life, this may be a good idea. And even that only if you only plan to live to age 30 or so, as paleos did, otherwise you will have to consider what happens after you wear your teeth down completely.
as far as saliva goes, what i think you can do is have some salivating food ( chewed normally ) along with the blended greens. if you go to McDonalds you don't drink a pepsi by itself - you have it with your burger and fries. so why can't you have your smoothie with something else that will release your saliva for you ? i don't personally do this because i have no problem digesting a smoothie as it is, but if you do there is the solution for you. not sure how that would work for a mono eater but that's something you have inflicted upon yourself - i am not responsible for that.
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The myth that fiber is necessary is much like the myth about the dangers of eating red meat. There is some truth to it, but you have to consider other factors, such as processed food in the diet and how the meat was raised.
I find so much chewing as unnecessary as blending, but okay. I know there are competing theories about paleolithic humans, what they ate and how long they lived. Suffice it to say that you and I subscribe to competing theories. I find one more compelling, while you accept a different theory.
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Raw paleo dieters shouldn't need any extra fiber, what ever fiber that is present in foods naturally should be all one needs, any attempt to add fiber to a diet for the sake of eating more fiber is an ignorant practice based on a belief in the great fiber fallacy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz53dawDtJ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGg8ya_U7CQ&feature=related
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Raw paleo dieters shouldn't need any extra fiber, what ever fiber that is present in foods naturally should be all one needs, any attempt to add fiber to a diet for the sake of eating more fiber is an ignorant practice based on a belief in the great fiber fallacy.
Exactly. It is the removal of fiber and fibrous material in foods that necessitates the addition of fiber, and has led to the current guidelines for consuming fiber, the idea that fiber is healthy, and so on. If you avoid refined foods, and you do not remove fiber from your food (such as removing the skin from the apple), then you will get the fiber you need.
Fruit plants have evolved such that it is evolutionarily advantageous for them to make fruit with fibrous material such that when the fruit is eaten, it does not spend too much time inside the intestines of the animal eating the fruit. It is a symbiotic type relationship between plant/fruit and man.
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Exactly. It is the removal of fiber and fibrous material in foods that necessitates the addition of fiber, and has led to the current guidelines for consuming fiber, the idea that fiber is healthy, and so on. If you avoid refined foods, and you do not remove fiber from your food (such as removing the skin from the apple), then you will get the fiber you need.
Fruit plants have evolved such that it is evolutionarily advantageous for them to make fruit with fibrous material such that when the fruit is eaten, it does not spend too much time inside the intestines of the animal eating the fruit. It is a symbiotic type relationship between plant/fruit and man.
the fiber has already been removed from your fruit before that fruit tree was even planted. your fruit was selectively bred to have low fiber and high fructose content.
if you eat only WILD fruits and eat them RANDOMLY ( without picking whichever ones are softer and sweeter on the supermarket shelf ) THEN you will certainly get all the fiber you need and then some.
go live in a forest for a month and you will end up having as much fiber as you can physically handle processing in your intestine. you will have so much fiber you will be in constant pain.
it doesn't matter if you buy an "artificial" food like pizza or a "natural" food like fruits - the fact that you buy it in a supermarket ( instead of finding it in the forest ) ensures that you will get 1/10th the fiber and 10 times the fructose UNLESS you specifically take steps to counter that trend ( like i do ).
GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD ALREADY - THERE IS NOTHING NATURAL ABOUT SUPERMARKETS ! ! !
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Raw paleo dieters shouldn't need any extra fiber, what ever fiber that is present in foods naturally should be all one needs, any attempt to add fiber to a diet for the sake of eating more fiber is an ignorant practice based on a belief in the great fiber fallacy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz53dawDtJ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGg8ya_U7CQ&feature=related
good video, thanks for sharing.
in all likelihood me and this dude eat a similar diet of something like meat and vegetables. he seems to be against fruits just as i am.
i had tried using fiber supplements before and they never worked for me - they just gave me all sorts of problems - so i definitely agree with him that fiber supplements are a scam. fiber must be consumed AS PART OF FOOD not as supplement.
when i drink a green smoothie i feel great and so do my bowels - that's why i use them and will continue to use them.
once again thanks for sharing the video - i will never use a fiber supplement again - like i said my personal experience with such supplements was almost 100% negative.
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the fiber has already been removed from your fruit before that fruit tree was even planted. your fruit was selectively bred to have low fiber and high fructose content.
if you eat only WILD fruits and eat them RANDOMLY ( without picking whichever ones are softer and sweeter on the supermarket shelf ) THEN you will certainly get all the fiber you need and then some.
go live in a forest for a month and you will end up having as much fiber as you can physically handle processing in your intestine. you will have so much fiber you will be in constant pain.
it doesn't matter if you buy an "artificial" food like pizza or a "natural" food like fruits - the fact that you buy it in a supermarket ( instead of finding it in the forest ) ensures that you will get 1/10th the fiber and 10 times the fructose UNLESS you specifically take steps to counter that trend ( like i do ).
GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD ALREADY - THERE IS NOTHING NATURAL ABOUT SUPERMARKETS ! ! !
There is nothing new to what you are saying here. I already select fruits that are more like wild varieties, and I eat them in small quantities. Were I to live in a forest I would eat even more meat and less fruit/berries. I know I am getting plenty of fiber as I am quite regular and have had only what I can describe as perfect poop since eating my current diet of mono-eating primarily raw grass fed meat and whole fruit. I don't even have to wipe.
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Never use honey or other sweeteners with fruits. Honey makes acidic reaction. It's not good for you.
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My teeth are pretty worn out from a history of overeating SMD grains and sugars, so I find that a smoothie is a great way to finely break up food for maximum digestion without too much further wear. I like to swill the blended food around in my mouth and give it a final chew to get saliva mixed in. It seems many primitive people died because their teeth just wore out on the harsh foods they were eating, whereas I can just buy a new blender when it blows up! My bowls love green smoothies, with a dash of animal product (eggs, whole raw prawns, whole raw sardines, offal...) and coconut cream (want to find a source of frozen raw coconut meat in NZ).