Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Off Topic => Topic started by: RawZi on February 01, 2011, 07:00:13 am
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One thing I noticed on a diet that includes raw animal foods for me is no gas or very little. When I was with Anne Wigmore and a few other times no gas too. So many other food programs seems to come with gas I think, right? On some of the other forums even following strictly it seems people on different diets seem to all get gas. Do RAFs resolve gas for you? Do plant foods give you gas? When do you get gas? I get gas only when I'm constipated, which doesn't happen if I eat raw animal fats and a low to no fiber diet.
To be fair, we do have two pages on farts: http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/primal-diet/raw-milk-and-smelly-frequent-farting/?wap2 (http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/primal-diet/raw-milk-and-smelly-frequent-farting/?wap2), http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/raw-eggs-make-my-gas-stink!!/?wap2 (http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/raw-eggs-make-my-gas-stink!!/?wap2). I do see many more though elsewhere. Could be the case in eggs and milk it's because of the cows and chickens being grainfed, or could be frozen milk, I don't know. It doesn't seem a raw meat diet with some fruit does it though.
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I get farts from eating any plant foods however raw, and from eating any cooked animal foods. Eating mostly raw animal foods means I only fart occasionally. I assume (?) that farting is not an experience shared by those on 100 percent RZC diets?
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I have noticed an extreme reduction in gas on this diet, I eat coconut butter as my main plant food and it doesn't give me gas, every now and then I will get a bubble or two. I think organ meats seem to trigger a little gas, but nothing extraordinary. Sometimes I will get a fart that smells like high meat, but like I said its nothing compaired to what I had when I was eating large amounts of veggies. If I eat to much raw coconut then I will get some diarrhea and a little gas.
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I rarely fart or belch on days I eat only meat, animal fat and water.
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I assume (?) that farting is not an experience shared by those on 100 percent RZC diets?
When i'm RZC, i will occasionally fart when constipated, like if i haven't had a BM in 4+ days.
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lol, I noticed that if don't leave enough time between meat and apples or other fruits I get some of those. The same thing if I overdo fruits.
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As long as my carb intake is low enough, no gas at all!
Löwenherz
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Cooked food for me = gas, of the stinking variety. ;D
raw (meat, fat, juice, veges, honey, fruit, dairy) = no gas
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Cooked food for me = gas, of the stinking variety. ;D
Oh yes, cooked zero carb: Lots of gas and bloating!
Löwenherz
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I fart when I eat the wrong foods or generally too much.
Recently I ate couple of pears and started to fart quite a lot. I ate them after the one-year brake.
Farting a little from time to time is good. Only too much of it, combined with some stomach disorders is bad.
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I fart when I eat the wrong foods or generally too much.
Recently I ate couple of pears and started to fart quite a lot. I ate them after the one-year brake.
Farting a little from time to time is good. Only too much of it, combined with some stomach disorders is bad.
Hi Hannibal,
if I remember correctly you eat a lot of fatty meat like lamb etc.
How much fruit do yo eat? Do you eat fruit every day? Any other plant food beside fruit?
I'm curios... most people on high animal fat diets get fruit intolerant after a while.
Löwenherz
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if I remember correctly you eat a lot of fatty meat like lamb etc.
Yes I do eat quite fatty meals.
How much fruit do yo eat? Do you eat fruit every day? Any other plant food beside fruit?
I depends. I generally eat over 100 g of carbs a day. Practically all from the fruits. Sometimes I eat honey.
I'm curios... most people on high animal fat diets get fruit intolerant after a while.
On VLC or ZC - yes. Insuline resistance.
That's why it's a huge difference between 40 g of carbs and 80 g, for example. That's why, I think, it's generally better to eat more than 50 g of them.
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That's why it's a huge difference between 40 g of carbs and 80 g, for example. That's why, I think, it's generally better to eat more than 50 g of them.
Very interesting. And you never get any symptoms after eating >> 50 grams carbs from fruit while on a high animal fat diet? No bloating? No rapid heart beat? No blood sugar issues? Nothing?
Löwenherz
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Very interesting. And you never get any symptoms after eating >> 50 grams carbs from fruit while on a high animal fat diet? No bloating? No rapid heart beat? No blood sugar issues? Nothing?
Löwenherz
The way I see it, if one is not doing RVLC for long periods, one is eating enough raw carbs for one to avoid carb-intolerance of any kind. At any rate, if I eat some raw carbs every 1-4 days, I have no issues whatsoever.
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Very interesting. And you never get any symptoms after eating >> 50 grams carbs from fruit while on a high animal fat diet? No bloating? No rapid heart beat? No blood sugar issues? Nothing?
Nothing.
Bloating occures when I eat too much of them, e.g. 3 pounds of apples in one meal. But that's not unusual, as I know lots of people who are eating rather high-carb and cannot eat too much of them too.
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The way I see it, if one is not doing RVLC for long periods, one is eating enough raw carbs for one to avoid carb-intolerance of any kind. At any rate, if I eat some raw carbs every 1-4 days, I have no issues whatsoever.
Not everyone who eats carbs avoids carb intolerance of any kind, and I am one who has repeatedly reported to you that that was not the case for me. I had problems with carbs for many years before I tried ZC/VLC.
If problems with carbs only occurred after going low carb, why would carb lovers like me do low carb diets at all?
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Phil, you're right.
There are more and more people who have got problems with carbs.
It's not because homo sapiens has got ones, but because modern people have battered heavily themselves when it comes to that issue.
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I know PP, I was thinking only of those people who reported getting carb-related issues only after going RVLC or RZC for long periods.
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The way I see it, if one is not doing RVLC for long periods, one is eating enough raw carbs for one to avoid carb-intolerance of any kind. At any rate, if I eat some raw carbs every 1-4 days, I have no issues whatsoever.
But eating "some raw carbs every 1-4 days" exactly sounds like VLC to me.
So you are eating more than 50g of carbs from fruit averagely on every day (to be beyond VLC)?
Löwenherz
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Not everyone who eats carbs avoids carb intolerance of any kind, and I am one who has repeatedly reported to you that that was not the case for me. I had problems with carbs for many years before I tried ZC/VLC.
If problems with carbs only occurred after going low carb, why would carb lovers like me do low carb diets at all?
As far as I can see most low carbers become fruit intolerant after a while.
In my case I have the feeling that high amounts of fats simply make me carb intolerant. On a high fat diet I get huge blood sugar spikes after eating fruits. I don't know if this is a bad thing at all. But I know that I don't get blood sugar spikes even after 10 bananas while I'm following a low fat diet.
Does anybody know more of the longterm effects of blood sugar spikes after eating?
Hannibal, I guess that you get huge spikes after every fruit meal as well.
Löwenherz
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Nothing.
Bloating occures when I eat too much of them, e.g. 3 pounds of apples in one meal. But that's not unusual, as I know lots of people who are eating rather high-carb and cannot eat too much of them too.
Your digestion seems to be very robust. hehe.
I guess that you usually eat fruits BEFORE fatty meat meals, right?
If I eat fruit in amounts you mentioned AFTER meat I always get extreme gas in my GI tract.
Löwenherz
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Your digestion seems to be very robust. hehe.
It's robust when I follow sequential eating + non-overeating + rawpaleodiet based upon foods that agree with me. :)
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I know PP, I was thinking only of those people who reported getting carb-related issues only after going RVLC or RZC for long periods.
Thanks for clarifying that
But eating "some raw carbs every 1-4 days" exactly sounds like VLC to me.
Yes, most people view it as VLC, but it's a relative term and different people have different views as to what the cuttoffs are for LC, VLC, ZC.
In my case I have the feeling that high amounts of fats simply make me carb intolerant. On a high fat diet I get huge blood sugar spikes after eating fruits. I don't know if this is a bad thing at all. But I know that I don't get blood sugar spikes even after 10 bananas while I'm following a low fat diet.
Interesting. Did you confirm this via blood glucose testing? In my own testing, my BG spikes from fruit regardless of what else I eat (though it generally returns almost to baseline within 3 hours), and this was the case before, during and after VLC, but the symptoms that night and the next day are lessened if I eat lots of fat with the fruit. Interestingly, some 80-10-10ers say that their BG doesn't spike from fruit if keep their diet low-fat, which would fit your experience. I've seen others claim that fat reduces the BG spiking effects of fruit, so it's all rather confusing to me.
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I can eat many kilos of fruit, nuts etc and digest it... and if I'm eating this stuff, I feel fine doing this. I just feel and look bad over-all if I'm eating that stuff.
If I am eating fruit/nuts etc, I do not have any problems in the eating of them - the problems are constant, and take time to wear off.
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Interesting. Did you confirm this via blood glucose testing? In my own testing, my BG spikes from fruit regardless of what else I eat (though it generally returns almost to baseline within 3 hours), and this was the case before, during and after VLC, but the symptoms that night and the next day are lessened if I eat lots of fat with the fruit. Interestingly, some 80-10-10ers say that their BG doesn't spike from fruit if keep their diet low-fat, which would fit your experience. I've seen others claim that fat reduces the BG spiking effects of fruit, so it's all rather confusing to me.
Hi PaleoPhil,
yes, I used a blood glucose meter. The effect is reliable, that means I can repeat it again and again. As long as my fat intake is high, fruit causes blood sugar spikes. When I follow a low fat diet, no spikes after fruit.
The question is: Are blood sugar spikes (in between 'normal' range) something to worry about? Or are they just somthing completely normal?
Zero Carbers like Lex Rooker report high fasting BG levels. This sounds not healthy, IMO. I mean, Zero Carbers always talk about diabolical carbs. And then they have constantly (!) much higher sugar levels in their BLOOD! This is a big contradiction, isn't it?
Löwenherz
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Hi PaleoPhil,
yes, I used a blood glucose meter. The effect is reliable, that means I can repeat it again and again. As long as my fat intake is high, fruit causes blood sugar spikes. When I follow a low fat diet, no spikes after fruit.
Fascinating. Thanks.
The question is: Are blood sugar spikes (in between 'normal' range) something to worry about? Or are they just somthing completely normal?
Dr. William Davis apparently thinks that any spikes over 120 or so mg/dl should be avoided, but I'm not convinced of that. I think the longer term measure of A1C is probably much more important and most of the other experts I follow seem to hold that view. I'm more concerned about the unpleasant symptoms I get when I eat more carbs than I can handle well.
Like just about everything I have an open mind on the subject, though. Too often people join a certain camp, like ZIOH/ZC or 80-10-10 and then tend to adopt absolutistic and dualistic views like "carbs are poison" or "meat is poison" or "fat must be kept at or below 10% of calories" and assume that these views apply to everyone.
Zero Carbers like Lex Rooker report high fasting BG levels. This sounds not healthy, IMO. I mean, Zero Carbers always talk about diabolical carbs. And then they have constantly (!) much higher sugar levels in their BLOOD! This is a big contradiction, isn't it?
It's a complex topic. My understanding from KGH and Loren Cordain is that the high FBG that occurs from VLC in an otherwise healthy person is a natural, benign form of insulin resistance called "peripheral insulin resistance." The fact that Lex hasn't developed symptoms of diabetes or pathological insulin resistance seems to support this.
On the other hand, Paul Jaminet and Matt Stone seem to think that there could be long term negative consequences from chronic peripheral IR. Plus Paul Jaminet, Peter of Hyperlipid and KGH seem to think that chronically staying in ketosis could possibly stress the body. This appears to be a very hypothetical area since there hasn't been much research or lengthy experience with lots of people on VLC diets, so your guess is as good as mine. I'm not currently hugely concerned about it because I don't have other serious related symptoms that I'm aware of and I do currently eat significant carbs from fruits, honey, roots and occasional tubers. Interestingly, I've had some high FBG readings despite eating carbs, so either I'm still LC enough to have peripheral IR or I may want to get my A1C checked at some point.
These topics of peripheral IR and ketosis and long-term VLC seem to be generally rather complex and controversial. I have a hard time processing all of it. So if you get any insights, please let us know.
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It's a complex topic. My understanding from KGH and Loren Cordain is that the high FBG that occurs from VLC in an otherwise healthy person is a natural, benign form of insulin resistance called "peripheral insulin resistance." The fact that Lex hasn't developed symptoms of diabetes or pathological insulin resistance seems to support this.
What do you think about the glycating effects of elevated BG levels?
Higher blood sugar --> More glycating --> Rapid aging
?
Löwenherz
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Yes, that seems like a valid concern. High-heat cooking also apparently contributes to that.
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Does anyone else here have IBS? I don't eat a raw food diet but find that salads and steamed vegetables are my safest foods. Cooked protein, grains, nuts and legumes are my worst foods and one thing linking all of these is that they're nutrient dense, as opposed to watery. They're also high in anti-nutrients but I have a problem with cooked meat as well, which has no anti-nutrients. It could be I've got low stomach acid which maybe isn't strong enough to break down these foods properly. Apart from the IBS I don't have any other health issues. I doubt I could eat raw meat but I love oysters and don't mind raw sea scallops so will try these next.
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/what-is-the-science-behind-raw-food-why-does-everyone-eat-raw/?topicseen (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/what-is-the-science-behind-raw-food-why-does-everyone-eat-raw/?topicseen)
This is my first post where I had the best day with no IBS symptoms at all after this diet. Yesterday I had much the same diet but with 3 pieces of liver instead of just 1 and it's going to be a bad day. Also in the above post the liver was simmered in broth. Yesterday the liver was fried. To be completely gas-free I seem to need foods that have a high water content so they're accessible to digestive fluids. I'd love to know the actual science behind this. But most gas for me is from carbs or meat that doesn't digest efficiently.