Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Techydude on March 07, 2011, 05:32:35 pm
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I've read on here the dangers and toxins caused by freezing meat so I never want to or at least forgo freezing meats temporarily. Would I fair well, putting my week's worth of meat in the fridge, exposed, under an ice pack to keep it cool, and preserving it that way for about a week to let the surface dry and harden progressively keep it go or make it a place for bad bacteria or spoilage and toxins?
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One week will not spoil your meat in the ref.
2 weeks will make it smell.
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I have piece of meat three weeks old opened in fridge, still going inside nicely :)))...
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Niceee, for now on i'm going to be less fearful and just store my meat in there open. But how about fish, does it go bad or stink after a week in the fridge unfrozen and raw?
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Even if it "spoils" it's just semi-high meat... I've been eating meat that I've had in closed jars for months. I'm getting tired of the taste though so I'm going to be leaving the tops off so it drys and locks in the taste as well as prevents most of the bacteria growth. There are some videos on youtube showing this.
After reading Lex's meat drying techniques http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/recipes/, instead of making the whole box thing, I've just skewered my meat(or even laid the meat on top of skewers) over plates, wide jars, pots, pans, etc. This way the full outside drys but it's not as extreme dryness as jerky ^_^
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I've read on here the dangers and toxins caused by freezing meat so I never want to or at least forgo freezing meats temporarily. Would I fair well, putting my week's worth of meat in the fridge, exposed, under an ice pack to keep it cool, and preserving it that way for about a week to let the surface dry and harden progressively keep it go or make it a place for bad bacteria or spoilage and toxins?
BTW: I doubt that freezing meat causes dangers and harmful toxins.
Fresh is always best, but why do you think that freezing is dangerous?
Löwenherz
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For fish just the same: couple of days ago I ate month old salmon pieces. Very testy as cold dried...
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Yeah I read the freezing sticky on here.
How about raw Suet, I heard of someone putting suet in a paper bag in a fridge and letting it dry and getting almost cinnamon flavored. Is it okay to keep suet in the fridge all the time?
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That's where I keep mine, but it's never changed texture or taste like what you just described :o
paper bag... hmm I'll try that.
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... Is it okay to keep suet in the fridge all the time? ...
Would you rather keep it outside the fridge? To keep it soft?? In a clay jar? Where else would you keep it? Once suet was exposed and then in my fridge it got almost moldy. I haven't had the kind of luck I would like too much with suet so far, so I don't use it.
I've kept meat open exposed in the fridge. It got rid of its odor. I was so happy about that, as it was supposed to be fresh, but was delivered to me as very stinky/slimy. I kept it a long time after that, and it was good! It got very hard and dry eventually. I kept turning it to expose all surfaces from the get go.
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Would you rather keep it outside the fridge? To keep it soft?? In a clay jar? Where else would you keep it? Once suet was exposed and then in my fridge it got almost moldy. I haven't had the kind of luck I would like too much with suet so far, so I don't use it.
I've kept meat open exposed in the fridge. It got rid of its odor. I was so happy about that, as it was supposed to be fresh, but was delivered to me as very stinky/slimy. I kept it a long time after that, and it was good! It got very hard and dry eventually. I kept turning it to expose all surfaces from the get go.
Oh that sucks for the mold part...=( I didn't try the suet paper bag thing yet but, do you have any recommendations on how to store suet preferably in the fridge out of experience (anyone) without it molding?
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Yeah I read the freezing sticky on here.
How about raw Suet, I heard of someone putting suet in a paper bag in a fridge and letting it dry and getting almost cinnamon flavored. Is it okay to keep suet in the fridge all the time?
That was me. I put suet in the cupboard in aired-out paper bags on top of cupboard liners (because some of the moist fat soaks into the bag early on), not the fridge, and it doesn't always get cinnamon flavored. It was only one farm's that does and I don't know why it does. Maybe it's something to do with what the cattle eat.
I haven't had any problem with fat-eating vermin, so I haven't needed to use the fridge. I find my fridge too be too damp for storing suet. My suet also turns moldy if left in the fridge too long in plastic, especially a loose plastic bag that hasn't had the air vacuum-sealed out. Maybe using paper bags in the fridge would help, but I don't see a reason for using the fridge for suet, because it lasts indefinitely outside of it, though it eventually becomes too dry and crumbly for my taste, but I usually use it up before then. If I were going to store suet really long term I suppose I might freeze some of it and then take it out and air it out as needed. Once it's thawed I find it important to get it out of plastic wrap/bags ASAP. The plastic contributes to giving it a musty smell and taste and promotes mold.
In the wild of the Stone Age, carcasses lay out in the sun or shade of arid and moist regions and in the snow of Arctic regions, so it could dry out, rot or freeze and HGs (and wolves, coyotes, big cats, hyenas, etc.) would still scavenge it if they came across it even weeks later, so I don't see a likely big problem with aging, drying or freezing meats, nor with high meat. The thing to be most careful about is not storing meats too long in sealed containers--especially plastic or metal and especially with cooked meats--as a low-oxygen environment promotes pathogenic anaerobic bacteria and with cooked meats much of the good bacteria are killed off, creating a better medium for bad bacteria. Warm temps are mainly a problem when a meat package is sealed, as pathogenic bacteria like anaerobic, warm, moist environments. Good bacteria can thrive in air-exposed, cold, dry environments, whereas bad bacteria do not. If you educate yourself on the nature of pathogenic vs. probiotic bacteria and what environs they thrive in, you'll understand how to store them.
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Phil, what would be your recommendation on storing blood?
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I imagine in a glass jar in the fridge, but I'm not sure.
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It'll last a few days or even a couple of weeks that way. It might be more paleo and better to let it dry open air in a bowl somewhere.
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I imagine in a glass jar in the fridge, but I'm not sure.
Would you leave it open and uncovered so good bacteria can get to it??
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You definitely need to expose it to air every now and then, to avoid depleting the oxygen so far that anaerobic bacteria can thrive. If I were storing it I guess I would try putting some in an open container and some in a jar that I air out every few days or so and see which turns out better. Right now there is a strong smell to my fridge that got imparted to one food I left open, so I probably would try cleaning the fridge first.
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That was me. I put suet in the cupboard in aired-out paper bags on top of cupboard liners (because some of the moist fat soaks into the bag early on), not the fridge, and it doesn't always get cinnamon flavored. It was only one farm's that does and I don't know why it does. Maybe it's something to do with what the cattle eat.
I haven't had any problem with fat-eating vermin, so I haven't needed to use the fridge. I find my fridge too be too damp for storing suet. My suet also turns moldy if left in the fridge too long in plastic, especially a loose plastic bag that hasn't had the air vacuum-sealed out. Maybe using paper bags in the fridge would help, but I don't see a reason for using the fridge for suet, because it lasts indefinitely outside of it, though it eventually becomes too dry and crumbly for my taste, but I usually use it up before then. If I were going to store suet really long term I suppose I might freeze some of it and then take it out and air it out as needed. Once it's thawed I find it important to get it out of plastic wrap/bags ASAP. The plastic contributes to giving it a musty smell and taste and promotes mold.
In the wild of the Stone Age, carcasses lay out in the sun or shade of arid and moist regions and in the snow of Arctic regions, so it could dry out, rot or freeze and HGs (and wolves, coyotes, big cats, hyenas, etc.) would still scavenge it if they came across it even weeks later, so I don't see a likely big problem with aging, drying or freezing meats, nor with high meat. The thing to be most careful about is not storing meats too long in sealed containers--especially plastic or metal and especially with cooked meats--as a low-oxygen environment promotes pathogenic anaerobic bacteria and with cooked meats much of the good bacteria are killed off, creating a better medium for bad bacteria. Warm temps are mainly a problem when a meat package is sealed, as pathogenic bacteria like anaerobic, warm, moist environments. Good bacteria can thrive in air-exposed, cold, dry environments, whereas bad bacteria do not. If you educate yourself on the nature of pathogenic vs. probiotic bacteria and what environs they thrive in, you'll understand how to store them.
How about leaving suet in the cupboard in a glass bowl or ceramic bowl uncovered, or in a paper bag not crinkled but left open? Ie having air flow into the place where the suet is stored at room temp
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The last suet I had tasted to me like white chocolate.
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How about leaving suet in the cupboard in a glass bowl or ceramic bowl uncovered, or in a paper bag not crinkled but left open? Ie having air flow into the place where the suet is stored at room temp
That should be fine. The more exposed it is, it'll just dry faster and is actually less likely to spoil rather than more. However, if it gets really hot during the summer then you may have to move it into the fridge or keep it in another cool area of the house to avoid mold if there's any moisture in the suet. I think that might have happened to me once, though I may be thinking of aged beef or beef jerky. Beware also that some suet can exude a lot of moist fat and leak a bit through paper bags, so you don't want to store them on top of anything that can get damaged.
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That should be fine. The more exposed it is, it'll just dry faster and is actually less likely to spoil rather than more. However, if it gets really hot during the summer then you may have to move it into the fridge or keep it in another cool area of the house to avoid mold if there's any moisture in the suet. I think that might have happened to me once, though I may be thinking of aged beef or beef jerky. Beware also that some suet can exude a lot of moist fat and leak a bit through paper bags, so you don't want to store them on top of anything that can get damaged.
My lamb fat has some meat attached. I guess that will turn into high meat if I thaw it out and store it on a shelf.
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That will age it, but to make high meat you would want to promote moisture and bacteria, such as by chopping it up and storing it in a glass jar, airing it out every several days. See Aajonus Vonderplanitz and Tyler for more info on this.
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That will age it, but to make high meat you would want to promote moisture and bacteria, such as by chopping it up and storing it in a glass jar, airing it out every several days. See Aajonus Vonderplanitz and Tyler for more info on this.
So the dry meat will not rot or decompose (in a becoming inedible kind of way)? What about keeping it away from mice and cockroaches? My building has both varmints, though I have seen neither in my own apartment, on in neighboring apartments.
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So the dry meat will not rot or decompose (in a becoming inedible kind of way)? What about keeping it away from mice and cockroaches? My building has both varmints, though I have seen neither in my own apartment, on in neighboring apartments.
you'll want to keep them open in the fridge & maybe oven then
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you'll want to keep them open in the fridge & maybe oven then
I will stick to the fridge. I have heard that the oven is where cockroaches often live.
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I will stick to the fridge. I have heard that the oven is where cockroaches often live.
Yep you're correct. But a cabinet or etc is good too.
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Yep you're correct. But a cabinet or etc is good too.
Some on here have suggested storing fat outside the fridge, so I will need something for that. Maybe a good tight breadbox that I could air out every so often? I think the critters would get into the cabinet too easily.
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Some on here have suggested storing fat outside the fridge, so I will need something for that. Maybe a good tight breadbox that I could air out every so often? I think the critters would get into the cabinet too easily.
If the breadbox is wooden I would think that would work. I wouldn't recommend plastic, though, as the combination of air-tightness plus plastic plus warm temps is potentially deadly.
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If the breadbox is wooden I would think that would work. I wouldn't recommend plastic, though, as the combination of air-tightness plus plastic plus warm temps is potentially deadly.
My folks probably have an old breadbox lying around, they always had wooden ones. Thanks, I have been cutting down on the plastic, using jars for storage and trasportation of my meats.
I thawed out the fat and opened the vacuum sealed package today. I laid out the lamb fat, it felt to be around 6 pounds, on a large counter space. I put some of it in a paper bag and left the rest out, we will see what happens tonight. Luckily, the cat hasn't gone after it.
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btw, even though there are a number of variations on how to dry age meat at home http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dry+age+meat&aq=f
you can basically just put the meat on a plate or shallow pan/w.e and leave it open in the fridge. I've been keeping mine in sealed jars which keeps all the moisture/blood in, but I've been taking months(making sure to air it out twice a week) to eat it all so the taste hasn't been great. I'm going to start leaving mine just aired out.
as far as I know the only way that raw meat can become inedible is to seal it air tight and not air it out for months? but then I've also heard that Aajonus says if you do that, the next time you air it out you just start off where you left off... so I dunno. But pretty much there doesn't seem to be a lot to worry about re your raw meat becoming inedible.
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Sheesh, the first Youtube instructions to dry age were so complicated, time intensive and germ-phobic, it would turn me off dry aging if I didn't know that most of that nonsense is not necessary.
I think what Aajonus likely meant is that when meat is sealed off from air, the aerobic bacteria gradually die off and the anaerobic pathogenic bacteria can take over. Then when you expose the meat again to oxygen, it kills of the anaerobic bacteria and the aerobic bacteria can gradually take hold again. Anaerobic bacteria also make the meat taste nasty, which was important for human survival in the wild, and it would probably take quite some time for it to taste good again, if it ever does.
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btw, even though there are a number of variations on how to dry age meat at home http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dry+age+meat&aq=f
you can basically just put the meat on a plate or shallow pan/w.e and leave it open in the fridge. I've been keeping mine in sealed jars which keeps all the moisture/blood in, but I've been taking months(making sure to air it out twice a week) to eat it all so the taste hasn't been great. I'm going to start leaving mine just aired out.
as far as I know the only way that raw meat can become inedible is to seal it air tight and not air it out for months? but then I've also heard that Aajonus says if you do that, the next time you air it out you just start off where you left off... so I dunno. But pretty much there doesn't seem to be a lot to worry about re your raw meat becoming inedible.
I have some on the kitchen counter I have been eating as it dries out. No problemo.