Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum

Raw Paleo Diet to Suit You => Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach => Topic started by: Neone on April 14, 2011, 01:06:06 pm

Title: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Neone on April 14, 2011, 01:06:06 pm

I have heard women mention that eating a zero carb diet stops their menstruation. My wife has noticed the same thing since starting zero carb a few years ago. Have any other zero carb women noticed anything similar?
And do you think it is still possible to get a yeast infection while being zero carb?
She noticed that she only ever got her period if she 'ate something weird' like we had to eat oats for a few weeks and she got her period about a week later after having not had it for about 6 months. Then again after eating more fruit than usual about 6 months later again.
Mabye its just a coincidence and she just has a weird bi-annual cycle or something.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: TylerDurden on April 14, 2011, 01:51:29 pm

Well, one of the big points raised by anti-rawists is that this amenorrhea is common among long-term raw vegans. Raw vegans like to portray it as being a good thing, but I have doubts re this. I suppose if fertility was maintained, it would be a good thing.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Hannibal on April 14, 2011, 03:06:18 pm

There is an increased need for carbohydrates just before and during menstruation. It's a physiological and biochemical fact.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: wodgina on April 14, 2011, 06:10:02 pm

Quote from: Hannibal on April 14, 2011, 03:06:18 pm

There is an increased need for carbohydrates just before and during menstruation. It's a physiological and biochemical fact.

Where do you get this from? references?

I was thinking why do women need to menstruate every month? seems a bit of a waste. Maybe when she is ready to have children or super turned on by a High testosterone alpha, then that would be the best time to ovulate. There are almost zero carbs where I live in Western Australia yet still babies were born.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: TylerDurden on April 14, 2011, 06:21:47 pm

Quote from: wodgina on April 14, 2011, 06:10:02 pm

Where do you get this from? references?

I was thinking why do women need to menstruate every month? Seems a bit of a waste. Maybe when she is ready to have children or super turned on by a High testosterone alpha, then that would be the best time to ovulate. There are almost zero carbs where I live in Western Australia yet still babies were born.

  Wodgina does have a point. Maybe menstrual bleeding only happens on an unhealthy diet. The key is fertility. If fertility is threatened, then it's obviously a bad phenomenon. Otherwise not....

All that said, some RPDer raw omnivorous females here have stated that premenstrual bleeding on a raw omnivore diet means far fewer days of bleeding(1 rather than 2 to 5) and negligible other symptoms.

The other point is that Australian Aborigines seem to have had some access to raw plant foods. Not much, but if it was even as much as 10-25 percent plus .....

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Neone on April 14, 2011, 10:07:47 pm

haha, thanks for the 'facts' guys. I was more interested in the anecdotal evidence from other women who are eating this way.
Klowcarb eats... low carb (never off plan!) but i think she takes birth control? so im not sure how her menstruation  is affected.
Susan i think is another one who eats instincto? but i think i heard her mention somewhere that she believes menstruation(and menopause) to be diseases rather than something natural.

My wifes periods were a bit weird before(though still 'regular'), but a lot of stuff happened around the time she went carnivorous, so we're just assuming that diet has something to do with it, just wanted to hear some other womens experiences.

One thing she noticed was she used to be REALLY heavy, and one of the first things she did years ago was cut grains and noticed a HUGE improvement during her periods.  Way less heavy flow and her pain was no where near as bad, since before she was pretty much in bed for 5 days.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: raw-al on April 15, 2011, 12:28:31 am

Amenorrhea can also result from excessive exercise.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: klowcarb on April 15, 2011, 01:55:09 am

Yes, I am on birth control so I do have a period from the BC every month. But I am 15% bodyfat, so I am not a good example of what a "typical" woman on ZC would go through. I might not get a period without the Pill, but I am not sure.

There is a woman on ZIOH (Yanpeng) who just got her period back on ZC. I think it comes down to body fat and nutrient density.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: alycia on April 15, 2011, 04:04:00 am

Quote from: klowcarb on April 15, 2011, 01:55:09 am There is a woman on ZIOH (Yanpeng) who just got her period back on ZC. I think it comes down to body fat and nutrient density.

I think that is right - about body fat and nutrients.

At 15 yrs old ( I am in my 30's now) i went vegetarian and lost weight, was eating pretty low fat = too low in calories and nutrients.  As a result my cycles would come every 3 months. 

I highly suggest she look into it.  Maybe stress, maybe she is not eating enough on LC, maybe she shocked her system with the diet, of coarse over training can do it too? 

My body has really been thru a lot due to my veg. days and loss of cycles should have been a pretty clear sign for me to reexamine how i was doing things with my diet. 

Please let us know how things work out and what caused it.
I am hoping RPD is my answer to regular cycle again. 

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Ioanna on April 15, 2011, 08:31:42 am

mine seems to depend on my weight (body fat percent probably, but i don't measure it.. i'm 5'7 if that helps any).  when i weigh under 118ish, i lose it.  over 118 and it will come back.  doesn't seem to matter what i'm eating, could be crazy amounts of fat, but if i weigh 112-115, i just won't get it. 

this was kind of worrisome to my mom when i was growing up.  she'd take me to the doctor who would tell me i will need a hormone injection if i didn't gain weight/get my cycle back.  then my mom would really watch my eating because she has always been against birth control.  she'd send me to school with a ridiculous amount of food that i'd pretend to eat all.  anyway, it's still the same today only i don't tell anyone so that i don't get threatened with hormones.  i don't know if it's healthier to menstruate or not, but i seem to be able to control it if i need to.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Ioanna on April 15, 2011, 08:38:40 am

Quote from: klowcarb on April 15, 2011, 01:55:09 am

Yes, I am on birth control so I do have a period from the BC every month. But I am 15% bodyfat, so I am not a good example of what a "typical" woman on ZC would go through. I might not get a period without the Pill, but I am not sure.

what is not typical?.. that you are on birth control or that you have 15% bodyfat?.. both seem pretty norm to me.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: klowcarb on April 16, 2011, 01:58:12 am

Quote from: Ioanna on April 15, 2011, 08:38:40 am

what is not typical?.. that you are on birth control or that you have 15% bodyfat?.. both seem pretty norm to me.

BC is typical, but find many women at age 30 that have 15% bodyfat...unlikely in our society, and even in paleo circles.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Hannibal on April 16, 2011, 02:31:50 am

20% BF in women are imo the best

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: wodgina on April 16, 2011, 02:59:00 am

Quote from: Hannibal on April 16, 2011, 02:31:50 am

20% BF in women are imo the best

Is that a physiological and biochemical fact?!

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Hannibal on April 16, 2011, 04:10:57 am

Quote from: wodgina on April 16, 2011, 02:59:00 am

Is that a physiological and biochemical fact?!

It's paleo fact.  8)

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Neone on April 16, 2011, 04:27:49 am

Im thinking that it might be a body fat thing. I would say she has low body fat around 15-16%. She does yoga every day, but an hour or two of yoga i dont think is the kind of excercise thats going to cause amenorrhea.

Although she feels a pretty strong correlation with zero carb (only carbs come from liver, if that matters) and not menstruating.

Now i guess the question is, 'just because you're not menstruating, does it mean that you're not ovulating too?'... well we're not about to find out if she is.. haha.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Ioanna on April 16, 2011, 06:13:13 am

Quote from: Neone on April 16, 2011, 04:27:49 am

Now i guess the question is, 'just because you're not menstruating, does it mean that you're not ovulating too?'... well we're not about to find out if she is.. haha.

my friend didn't know she was pregnant because she conceived during a time we were training together (neither of us had gotten for about 6 months).  she found out when she got into a car accident, and doctor said "and baby is fine too"   :D

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: klowcarb on April 17, 2011, 08:17:12 am

Quote from: Hannibal on April 16, 2011, 04:10:57 am

It's paleo fact.  8)

What is so much of a paleo "fact" about this?

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Hannibal on April 17, 2011, 12:42:08 pm

Quote from: klowcarb on April 17, 2011, 08:17:12 am

What is so much of a paleo "fact" about this?

Healthy well-nourished paleo women hadn't been so lean.
15% bf = very lean. If a woman is aiming for some finess competition then it's ok, for some period.
20% = healthy, sexual attractive woman

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: sabertooth on April 17, 2011, 03:43:24 pm

Body fat is baby food, during conception and pregnancy body fat is important for optimal gestation and usually after birth the excess weight gained during pregnancy will be converted into breast milk.

The fat % at conception may not be as important as long as there is no deficiency and enough is gained during pregnancy. My mother was 95 pounds before she became pregnant, and gained over 40 pounds in 9 months and gave birth to a 9 pound baby me, and then leaned back down after breast feeding.

My wife goes through the same cycles, she was fairly lean when we got together and gained some healthy baby food weight during pregnancy and the leaned down after a few months of breastfeeding. Now she is at a perfect weight around 20% body fat. She may want to be leaner to fit into a smaller size, but its an issue of ascetics and not health.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: raw-al on April 17, 2011, 08:56:24 pm

I read an interesting study years ago that said that perception of women's appearance changes according to different social situations.

In primitive societies more closely tied to a more natural lifestyle, women were prized for being larger. But as people in theses societies became acclimatized to the larger world in general then there was a gradual shift, till in seriously large cities, smaller/thinner women became considered to be more desirable.

Smaller in body size and less body fat.

Body fat is actually a good thing for survival and particularly for a woman to have in abundance pre-pregnancy. If impregnated prior to having some in abundance, a mother can be starting a very important race (which will run the rest of her life, ie. having healthy non challenged children) with her legs tied. In Ayurveda one of the most important outputs of the digestive process is the second last item in the distillation process Ojas (http://www.scribd.com/doc/2515703/Ojas)

It is extremely close to being like fat.

I am not talking about Big Mac fat. I mean healthy fat. Strong well proportioned fat from a robust life and healthy diet which I have started to believe is a raw diet of some variety, heavy in meat.

I have seen lots of damage come as a result of "faux exercise" when people get carried away with it. Women used to live longer than men and I believe it was due to doing housework which was/is essentially well-rounded exercise.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Josh on April 17, 2011, 09:28:58 pm

Some people say the human mating season was when fruits arrived on the trees. No idea if that could be accurate.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Neone on April 18, 2011, 12:23:29 am

Yeah, but we're talking about zero carb here. A plain carnivorous diet where you are only eating meat fat and organs. Its not like my wife is choosing her weight. She is just eating lots of fat, organs and meat.

Whats the deal then if low body fat is not as advantageous as the universally agreed upon paleo fact of 20% body fat, then does that mean a zero carb diet is not as desirable as one that includes foods that will 'fatten you up a bit'?

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Josh on April 18, 2011, 08:15:56 pm

My point was some people think we would be zero carb for most of the year and then eat fruit in season.

Some people think that we would not reproduce much except in the fruit season.

So it sounds plausible from this standpoint that zero carb could reduce menstruation or the chances of pregnancy.

I don't endorse either view, just something I have heard.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: alycia on April 18, 2011, 10:43:05 pm

Quote from: Neone on April 18, 2011, 12:23:29 am Yeah, but we're talking about zero carb here. A plain carnivorous diet where you are only eating meat fat and organs. Its not like my wife is choosing her weight. She is just eating lots of fat, organs and meat. Whats the deal then if low body fat is not as advantageous as the universally agreed upon paleo fact of 20% body fat, then does that mean a zero carb diet is not as desirable as one that includes foods that will 'fatten you up a bit'?

Neone-
Has she gotten her hormone levels tested?  

I went thru the same thing with lack of cycles (still do) and my estrogen was too low, along with progesterone.  Overtime it has led to some bone loss  :(

They repeatedly tested my pituitary gland for tumors b/c that can cause this kind of thing if one is Not underweight, over exercising, not getting enough nutrients, menopausal age, pregnant etc..
Sometimes it can be issues in the ovaries too.  
So it is really worth looking into.

You have to ovulate to get pregnant, if you get the lab work done they will let you know if she is ovulating still.  

The one thing that helped me, and i have tried many things ($$$$ - it's so sad), was acupuncture.  After 3 years of not having a cycle, even being put on bio-ID hormones, after one acupuncture treatment and some herbs - i got my cycle back.  
Now i was told i should get more acupuncture done to get my body back in balance but I was out of $$$ from all the other stuff i tried before.  Not following the complete time i needed (7 sessions) my cycles got off again  :(
It's been 5 years of mostly no cycles.

Bottom line from me- find out if there is anything going on with some simple lab work  :)  

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: jessica on April 19, 2011, 08:53:51 am

you can ovulate without menstruation
ovulation is what is necessary for the egg to leave the fallopian tube and travel to where it can be fertilize
it hangs out in the tissues that than become the menstruation after the ova has passed its time in the body
menstruation is the body flushing the old egg and tissues out of the body
it can be bloody or sometimes just a bit of goo...i think the typical amount of blood that typical females loose is too much, probably from toxic diets, environment, excessive estrogen, excessive body fat which promotes hormones (not to say %15 and below is at all ideal for health of every person)

when following a healthy diet and lifestyle, having a bit extra body fat is a way of your body knowing, and imparting to mates, that you are healthy and able to feed yourself and nourish a child properly
i know that all of my time spent concerning myself with weight, diet, fitness, to the point of malnourishment, as well as having been a vegetarian is an enormous part of why i do not ovulate regularly, if at all, and have struggled with it since adolescence...

if your wife is worried about fertility she can have her hormone levels tested...this was how i figured out that my body was producing the bare minimum amount of estrogen(at 25) and honestly the only reason i have had two scant periods in 4 years is because i was packing ON the pounds, i am about 120 now but was probably 20-25 pounds at the time...i know i have had other ovulation a few times but perhaps only 2 or three as my weight is generally around 125(i work to hard and am too poor to really eat the amount of nutrition would like to :(..migrant farmer)(i am also not zero carb and wasnt when my periods were restored after 3 years)...i have heard wonderful things about acupuncture as well, and have tried it myself but didnt stick with it due to $$$...i take some supplements like DHEA as well as dr. rons ovaries(mostly i think these help me keep my head on straight)...the lack of estrogen can cause a wide range of health issues besides amenorrhea...bone loss is a huge one, as well as generally expedited generation of the body as females past child bearing age are really not that productive in a more natural sense.....(yeah that is crass but we are put her to reproduce..just like other animals)

if she feels the urge for carbs it is best she listens to her body and figure out what the craving is, if its just too little calories or if her body would really like carbs then it is best to honor that to the extent that is beneficial

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: babetteq on April 19, 2011, 09:54:46 am

pretty much 2 years here, but not all of it raw. The only change in my menstruation is that I get pms VERY rarely now. When I do, it's still bad, but it's so infrequent that I joke that I have no 'early warning system'. I do not have low body weight or % body fat. I'm a 41 year old, apple shaped woman. I exercise, but not extremely. Mostly weights, and mostly only for about 1/2 hr. So it's not like Im an elite athlete. Cramps still come. Everything is the same except for the pms

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: majormark on April 19, 2011, 04:54:03 pm

Quote from: alycia on April 18, 2011, 10:43:05 pm

...
Now i was told i should get more acupuncture done to get my body back in balance but I was out of $$$ from all the other stuff i tried before.  Not following the complete time i needed (7 sessions) my cycles got off again  :(
It's been 5 years of mostly no cycles.  

Are you aware there are free alternatives to acupuncture?

You can check out the work of Donna Eden, get one book or dvd and do the exercises daily.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: wodgina on April 19, 2011, 07:12:50 pm

Interesting thread. I never knew you could just produce eggs without menstruation. In paleo times girls would of been pregnant much earlier than the girls here, who have yet to conceive this could also be an issue in terms of this stuff.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: wodgina on April 19, 2011, 07:14:32 pm

Some girls I was meaning.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: TylerDurden on April 19, 2011, 08:33:29 pm

Quote from: wodgina on April 19, 2011, 07:12:50 pm

Interesting thread. I never knew you could just produce eggs without menstruation. In paleo times girls would of been pregnant much earlier than the girls here, who have yet to conceive this could also be an issue in terms of this stuff.

Actually, girls nowadays seem to be reaching puberty much earlier than before. Plus some palaeo experts have claimed that palaeo HGs were less likely to be pregnant as being pregnant apparently requires some extra fat in the female body which helps conception, and this is used to explain partly why Neolithic settled communities outbred the palaeo HG societies.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: djr_81 on April 20, 2011, 01:06:05 am

Quote from: Josh on April 17, 2011, 09:28:58 pm

Some people say the human mating season was when fruits arrived on the trees. No idea if that could be accurate.

It sort of makes sense. Spring is when there is the highest abundance of easily obtained nutrition and hence when most (all?) animals conceive. Some species may have multiple broods of offspring throughout the spring, summer, and early fall but it all starts in spring.
Unfortunately our gestation period is so long that conception in early spring would mean delivery in late fall or winter which seems counter intuitive to survival of the young.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: klowcarb on April 20, 2011, 03:29:28 am

Quote from: Hannibal on April 17, 2011, 12:42:08 pm

Healthy well-nourished paleo women hadn't been so lean.
15% bf = very lean. If a woman is aiming for some finess competition then it's ok, for some period.
20% = healthy, sexual attractive woman

Women look different at body fat percentages. I would feel fat at 20%.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Neone on April 25, 2011, 12:39:00 am

Well a side effect of eating zero carb seems to be a low body fat percentage (and muscle, since most people seem to need carbs to bulk up too), so im just wondering what the deal is. If I was to say to somebody "Hey, I got this great diet! It will make you thin and possibly infertile!, but your energy will be through the roof! (haha, sounds like durianrider)", im not sure they'd be convinced.

But anyway.. My wife got her curse back(like she deserves) two days ago. Her diet didnt change but we had a cold so she was sitting down more for a few days. But she blames it from being around lots of pregnant rats all day (or working with other women) haha.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: klowcarb on April 27, 2011, 01:07:36 am

Quote from: Neone on April 25, 2011, 12:39:00 am

Well a side effect of eating zero carb seems to be a low body fat percentage (and muscle, since most people seem to need carbs to bulk up too),

Not if you eat enough calories and enough protein and do weight lifting.

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: mrssmith on January 10, 2012, 03:48:17 am

I did lose my cycle going lower carb, but after much research and adding a bunch of stuff back into my diet that I probably could've done without, I came across an interesting post suggesting Iodine.

Apparently when you cut out the junk your biggest source of iodine goes down.  Many people don't use iodized table salt anymore either.  Has anyone experimented with iodine to see if it restores menstruation? 

I've just started taking it although I gained my cycle back two months ago after several rounds of Clomid, which apparently is frequently used to treat amenorrhea.  I think I'm going to try to cut out a lot of the carbs again as my reactive hypoglycemia is acting up and see if I can keep my cycle in the long run with the iodine supplementation. 

Title: Re: Zero Carb and Menstruation
Post by: Suiren on August 27, 2012, 05:40:15 pm

This is interesting!
I just got my menstruation back today, after exactly a year postpartum (I am still breastfeeding exclusively), so exactly on time.

I never had a heavy period and I got it fairly late. For the first time when I was 16, and it was not regular before 17. I think that was good because I was all grown same size as today.

My period is always very regular, 29 day cycle, no pains or discomfort or symptoms whatsoever and very light bleeding for 1-3 days. I don't use tampons, just the small pads...what are these called again?
Anyhow, my period does not seem to be affected by weight, or maybe I just never got low enough (for my body type). My lowest was 42kg :( but my period was still normal, at the moment I am 47kg. I have about 22% of body fat...

I am curious to see how my menstruation is affected by low carb (not doing no carb)

Quote from: Ioanna on April 15, 2011, 08:31:42 am

mine seems to depend on my weight (body fat percent probably, but i don't measure it.. i'm 5'7 if that helps any).  when i weigh under 118ish, i lose it.  over 118 and it will come back.  doesn't seem to matter what i'm eating, could be crazy amounts of fat, but if i weigh 112-115, i just won't get it.