Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Other Raw-Animal-Food Diets (eg:- Primal Diet/Raw Version of Weston-Price Diet etc.) => Raw Weston Price => Topic started by: PaleoPhil on May 04, 2012, 08:50:49 am
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Here and there in recent months I tasted small samples of various cow, goat and sheep cheeses, yogurts and kefir, raw and pasteurized. I noticed that raw is tastier and more easily digested than pasteurized and sheep's milk cheese and yogurt taste far better to me and are more easily digested by me than cow or goat and I was curious as to whether it might have other advantages like health benefits and did find a couple sources that provided some interesting info on this:
Reported Advantages of Sheep's Milk over Cow and Goat's Milk
> tastes and smells better and makes better tasting, richer, and smoother cheese and yogurt
> easier to digest and less of a problem for people intolerant to cow's dairy
> contains more vitamin A, Beta carotene, vitamin D, vitamin E, Vitamin C, Thiamin, Riboflavin, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12, Nicotinic acid, Pantothenic acid, Biotin, Folic acid, calcium, protein, iron, magnesium, zinc, and medium chain amino acids. (Nutritionally, "The only other milks that can be compared with it would be that of the camel and the water buffalo.")
> "The calcium: phosphorus ratio in sheep milk is nearly perfect"
> contains double the amount of butterfat
> the fat globules in sheep milk are smaller, more homogeneous and therefore more easily digested
> contains more medium and short chain saturated fatty acids, which is believed to enable higher lactose absorption
> contains more medium chain triglycerides (MCT)
> 3 times more whey protein
> the lactose in sheep milk has been found to be better tolerated
Disadvantages
> more expensive
> rarer and thus less conveniently obtained
Sources:
Health Benefits of Sheep's Milk
http://www.sasheepdairy.co.za/benefits.html (http://www.sasheepdairy.co.za/benefits.html)
Nutrition Information for Sheep Cheese
Feb 9, 2011 | By Brigid Rauch
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/377398-nutrition-information-for-sheep-cheese/#ixzz1tqwMDnyu (http://www.livestrong.com/article/377398-nutrition-information-for-sheep-cheese/#ixzz1tqwMDnyu)
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Cows I am led to believe produce copious amounts of milk, somewhere in the order of 3 gallons a day. This is a result of breeding and modern methods of extraction. I am guessing that sheep and goats have not been subjected to on such a wide scale and so consequently don't produce as much.
I know someone who had to drink goat's milk as a child because it was easier on her gut
According to Ayurvedic principles you take on the characteristics of the animals or foods that you consume. In other words if you are lightweight or have wasting diseases then you will do better if you consume from foods that are the opposite ie very large, slow moving animals ie. cows. Milk from goats and sheep would be light as goats an sheep are light and fast moving and thus would be more apropos for heavier, slow moving people.
I recall reading somewhere that camel milk is very good.
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If you take on the characteristics of the food you eat, I guess that means I'm a little nutty, fruity and lay around like a vegetable for the most part with my animal side coming out once in a while - yeah - I guess that's about right! ;D
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As indicated above, sheep's dairy reportedly contains way more calories and nutrition per ounce than cow's dairy, so if one wants to add bulk, sheep's dairy would seem to be the way to go. Besides, it's so much better tasting and digesting than cow's dairy that once I tried sheep's dairy there was no going back. There's simply no comparison--for me, anyway. As always, YMMV.
After trying sheep's dairy, I'm puzzled why anyone who isn't dirt poor would bother with cow or goat dairy, but to each their own, of course. In my area there are 3 types of dairy products available--cow, goat and sheep--and for me, at this point, it's sheep dairy or none. I find that the cow and goat dairy just aren't worth bothering with, whether pasteurized or raw. And for me, raw animal body fats still beat all three dairy food sources.
Camel (and water buffalo) dairy, like sheep dairy, is indeed reportedly vastly superior to cow dairy, as the article I summarized above indicated.
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You hit the nail on the head Phil when you questioned whether it was available. Getting raw cow milk or any truly raw cheese is like finding and climbing Mount Olympus over most of the country let alone procuring raw sheep milk!
Now I'm on a new quest. The devil that you are...... always sending me on these new quests without even realizing it! But I'm always thankful. :)
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It's true, I am a divil and I'm conflicted. Now that I'm hooked on sheep's milk products (in limited quantities), I wonder whether I should mention it to anyone else, because cow's dairy just doesn't even merit a moment's thought now that I've tried sheep's dairy. Maybe folks are better off never trying sheep's dairy, to save money, I don't know. Or, if they're lucky, maybe I'm one of the few who vastly prefers sheep's dairy. But when no one even mentions it, I wonder why and I think that maybe it should at least be discussed.
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There you go again Phil pitying us poor unknowing souls once again. If you keep on with your devilish ways maybe neither of us will be able to get any good raw foods as the prices soar due to your power of persuasion. ;) :o l)
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Tell me about it. -[
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I found that other people seem to also have noticed that of the dairy products, sheep's dairy is among the best:
"Sheep, like camels, are sacred" - Diet of Mongolia, Written by Katherine Czapp, February 14 2008, http://www.westonaprice.org/in-his-footsteps/diet-of-mongolia (http://www.westonaprice.org/in-his-footsteps/diet-of-mongolia)
"The karakuls [a breed of sheep] are all purpose. They can be milked. Sheep milk is highly tolerated by almost everyone and if it [is] served fresh and chilled, it is also delicious. Sheep cheese is a very fine delicacy in many parts of the world and Canada is no exception." - Winter Sheep, The Fat Ewe Farm and B & B, http://www.thefatewe.com/sheep.htm (http://www.thefatewe.com/sheep.htm)
[Note: my point in this thread is not that dairy of any kind is necessarily healthy or Paleo, and I don't even eat a lot myself, just sharing my experiences and findings re: various types of dairy foods.]
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I went to realmilk.com and printed out all the dairies. Out of 85 dairies that sell raw milk there was not one that sold sheep milk. Sheep are raised in Texas though as there are farms that raise lambs for meat and sheep for wool.
I did however find a place only an hour away from my house called MooJesus! run by a church. Aint that a hoot?! I'm going this weekend.
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I went to realmilk.com and printed out all the dairies. Out of 85 dairies that sell raw milk there was not one that sold sheep milk. Sheep are raised in Texas though as there are farms that raise lambs for meat and sheep for wool.
I did however find a place only an hour away from my house called MooJesus! run by a church. Aint that a hoot?! I'm going this weekend.
As opposed to mojo.... LOL
I am not aware of their being sheep dairies, but there must be some.
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Where would all the sheep cheese come from if there were no sheep dairies?
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LOL, leave it to Dorothy to find a place called Moo Jesus! That's another reason why your contribution here is priceless.
There are sheep cheese makers here in Vermont, but my favorite so far, Zamorano, actually comes from Spain. I like it a little better than the slightly milder Manchego, a Spanish raw sheep cheese that's apparently even more popular. The Spanish and other Europeans have thousands of years head start on the USA on cheese making (http://www.bodegaspanishwine.com/2010/12/a-foreigner%E2%80%99s-guide-to-spanish-cheese-1/ (http://www.bodegaspanishwine.com/2010/12/a-foreigner%E2%80%99s-guide-to-spanish-cheese-1/)). Zamorano makes even the best raw aged cow's milk cheese taste like glue paste in comparison to me, but some pasteurized cheddar lovers I shared it with didn't like it all that much. They found it too dry and apparently prefer gluey cheese.
After tasting sheep cheese I understand why the Mongols consider the sheep sacred. Now I'm curious to try camel cheese. LOL Like the Mongols I don't turn up my nose at eating (raw) dried cheese (though too much is harder on my digestion as compared to raw suet, marrow, beef, eggs, etc.). Some say that Zamorano is a "hard" cheese, but's it's actually crumbly, or that it has a "strong" taste (the sharpest cheddar is still not sharp enough for me), and some European gourmets/traditionalists accompany it with quince paste (which is cooked, BTW--see http://video.about.com/spanishfood/Gourmet-Spanish-Quesadillas.htm (http://video.about.com/spanishfood/Gourmet-Spanish-Quesadillas.htm)) or fig compote to complement the "strong" taste (and in the case of the quince paste, the dryness) of the cheese, apparently, but I've tried that and I prefer the cheese on its own. Any paste or cracker paired with it only subtracts from the pleasure, in my book.
If you can find Zamorano, a sheep’s milk cheese that is aged for six months, buy it. It has a slightly stronger flavor than Manchego and stands its ground with all of the assertive flavors in the bowl. Shave it in paper-thin shards; they look so delicate resting on the top of the salad, and the flavor is complex — creamy and slightly sweet.
http://inmediasrecipe.com/flavors-of-spain-salad-mixed-greens-with-caramelized-onions-jamon-serrano-zamorano-cheese-peppadew-peppers-and-marcona-almonds/ (http://inmediasrecipe.com/flavors-of-spain-salad-mixed-greens-with-caramelized-onions-jamon-serrano-zamorano-cheese-peppadew-peppers-and-marcona-almonds/)
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Is Zamorano traditionally made raw (low temp) like most cheddar is?
I'm going to have to look for it. Thanks for the heads up.
I've been making nothing but tacky MooJesus! jokes all week - hubbie is ready to ring my neck.
Holy Cow - She's so cheesy. MooJesus!, I'm going to milk this for all it's worth. gafaw.
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Is Zamorano traditionally made raw (low temp)
Yes, AFAIK.
I've been making nothing but tacky MooJesus! jokes all week - hubbie is ready to ring my neck.
Holy Cow - She's so cheesy. MooJesus!, I'm going to milk this for all it's worth. gafaw.
LOL, thanks for brightening my world with such, Dorothy. God luv ya. Now I'm looking forward to the day when the Pope and all the Christian leadership will be succeeded by Moo Jesus.
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Ah - if only the Pope and all the Christian leaders were healthy grass-fed milk cows - then at least we would KNOW that they worthy of admiration! :)
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Hey, go easy on the cow cheese. Our farmer/cheese maker makes primo
sh stuff. : )
She's a one stop shopping for dairy and meat products.
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I'm praying to Moo Jesus, that the farm I'm going to tomorrow will be the same Al. They even have a restaurant and Holy Cows pulling carts to ride in! They say bring your own pole and you can fish. (Fishing - appropriate for a Christ organization!) They have a store supposedly with fresh grass fed meats. If I can get fresh unfrozen grass-fed meats from them then I know my prayers have been answered and the kingdom of heaven has arrived for me on earth. What I don't understand though is that they have left out the shepherding thang! You know all the analogies with Christ being the good shepherd. They REALLY need some REAL sheep. People that eat raw grass-fed milk aren't usually very sheepish.
I just want to be ABLE to TRY some sheep milk without having to go out and buy a sheep. There's tons of raw goat milk around here, but although it is supposedly healthier I think it pales compares to cow milk. Besides, anything Phil says is the bible to me. ;)
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Y'all from Texas I see. I've been there twice, once in Georgetown and once in Houston. The coast seems like it would be fun as I have a catamaran and kite surfing equipment.
That should be a mooving experience for you as they say on the site.
I notice that it says raw milk. When I was in Houston (last year) I went to a Whole Foods and when I asked about raw milk, I was told it was illegal. Maybe I have my cities mixed up, but I was sure that was in Houston. Or maybe that dairy was too far away or whatever.
My mom apparently drank goat milk as a child. She had stomach issues and apparently it worked better for her. She's 90 so it did no harm.
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Mooving experience - thanks for that! ;D
Selling raw milk in stores is illegal in Texas. The only way you can get it legally is to go the farm and buy it directly from a farmer who is registered and certified to sell raw milk from their farm. Some people band together to take turns going to the farm or get one person with a refrigerated van to go and bring it back. The farmers themselves are not allowed to deliver their milk anywhere. It's like an underground railroad in the time of slavery - and to me as disgusting as slavery. I know - that's an extreme statement, but the government not allowing farmers to sell MILK! for crying out loud - our food supply is being destroyed and in a way is making us all into slaves having to work long hours without decent nutrition. Just because we're fat doesn't mean we aren't starving as a nation.
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Hey, go easy on the cow cheese. Our farmer/cheese maker makes primo sh stuff. : )
She's a one stop shopping for dairy and meat products.
I take it you haven't tried sheep's dairy yet. ;)
... The farmers themselves are not allowed to deliver their milk anywhere. It's like an underground railroad in the time of slavery - and to me as disgusting as slavery. I know - that's an extreme statement, but the government not allowing farmers to sell MILK! for crying out loud - our food supply is being destroyed and in a way is making us all into slaves having to work long hours without decent nutrition. Just because we're fat doesn't mean we aren't starving as a nation.
You got it sister. Russell Means talks about how the government did it to the Indians (and Africans, obviously) first, and now they're doing it to everyone else. They perfected the reservation slavery system on the Indians and now they're turning the whole nation into a giant reservation, completely dependent on Big Brother.
1 Russell Means: Welcome To The Reservation. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1lVmB_2pGg#ws)
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Notice how he says that the first thing that we did to get control of the American Indian was to take away their rights to hunt and get their food from their own land!
If people cannot get what their bodies/brains need they can't think and they don't have the strength to protest.
That video made a big impact on me. I now have the idea forefront in my mind that we are all now living on an Indian Reserve and Indian Reserves are actually Prisoner of War Camps we are all living in one big Prisoner of War Camp.
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I take it you haven't tried sheep's dairy yet. ;)
1 Russell Means: Welcome To The Reservation. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1lVmB_2pGg#ws)
No opportunity, or more accurately never tried but thanks for the head's up.
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Fair warning that you pay for what you get in this case, so sheep dairy products tend to cost substantially more per pound than cow or goat dairy. The nutritional value is also much higher, though, so it would be interesting to see what the cost per nutrient is.
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Cows I am led to believe produce copious amounts of milk, somewhere in the order of 3 gallons a day. This is a result of breeding and modern methods of extraction. I am guessing that sheep and goats have not been subjected to on such a wide scale and so consequently don't produce as much.
I know someone who had to drink goat's milk as a child because it was easier on her gut
According to Ayurvedic principles you take on the characteristics of the animals or foods that you consume. In other words if you are lightweight or have wasting diseases then you will do better if you consume from foods that are the opposite ie very large, slow moving animals ie. cows. Milk from goats and sheep would be light as goats an sheep are light and fast moving and thus would be more apropos for heavier, slow moving people.
I recall reading somewhere that camel milk is very good.
this doesnt add up with what iv heard about goat milk being commonly reccomended for weight gain.
but then again, i think ayurveda is mostly crap.
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Hi Everyone,
I've been working mostly on dairy farms in Italy for the past nine months so I thought I'd add my two cents.
Sheep produce significantly less milk than do goats or cows. Nobody that I know on a sheep farm sells the milk; they use all the milk for cheese and, maybe, yogurt. (For that matter, not much selling of milk goes on on the other farms either; at most the occasion neighbor drops by once in a while with bottles and fills them.
The last farm I worked on was a goat and cow farm in the high Alps. The animals ate (this was summer of course) nothing but fresh pasture filled with wildflowers, and of course the milk was delicious, especially of the goats. It really did not have the quality that many people object to in goat milk. Now I am at a sheep farm in much lower mountains; the sheep ate grass (but nothing like the fields of flowers I was used to in the Alps) until it got too cold to be outside, recently; now they eat hay, but they also always eat "feed"--mixture of pellets, flakes, carob. They also have disinfectant rubbed on their udders before they are milked and some type of "medicine" afterwards. And this is an organic farm.
Sheep's milk is still sweeter and more delicious than any other milk I've ever had. But I haven't been doing very well since I came here: my nose is always stuffed, I've been asthmatic. I remember in my very asthmatic childhood doctors used to say that milk was mucous-forming and should be avoided. I'm wondering if I should take that advice now, but on the rare occasion that I have the opportunity to have sheep milk on a daily basis it's hard not to take advantage!
Even
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When my goats were in milk and I practically got most of my calories from it, I found when the grass here in Northern Ca. would turn brown, and especially in the autumn before the rains would come to green up everything once again, that I would get mucous and a cold (mucous) like symptoms. I became convinced it's all about what the animals eat which determines whether we do well on their milk. If the sheep are primarily eating hay right now, my guess is that's what's going on with you. Might be a good time to eat more of the animal than their milk.
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I would say that the negative symptoms you are experiencing are detox. I always feel better than I did before when I let these thigns run their course.
How else do you expect your body to push out toxins? There is no easy way, it has to come out somehow.
Also I dont know if youve been drinking milk constantly this whole time or just started up again but you need to build up to the ability to drink lots of milk, you cant just jump right into a half gallon a day.
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I had goats and drank their milk for well over ten years, always on green pasture, never any grains except seven day sprout grass, I think my experience speaks for itself.
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The question was actually directed at vigna. Sorry I should have been more clear.
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Hi Everyone,
I've been working mostly on dairy farms in Italy for the past nine months so I thought I'd add my two cents.
Sheep produce significantly less milk than do goats or cows. Nobody that I know on a sheep farm sells the milk; they use all the milk for cheese and, maybe, yogurt.
Yup, I haven't seen anyone sell the milk either, and I have seen it reported by multiple sources that sheep do indeed produce much less milk than cows or goats.
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its true, the only reason I dont get sheeps milk is because it costs 4 times more than cow.
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its true, the only reason I dont get sheeps milk is because it costs 4 times more than cow.
You could buy fresh sheep's milk?
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We have sheep. In spring when the lambs got born I tried to milk the mama... but I can tell that is way more difficult than a goat, and I have milked goats this summer too by the neighbor. I got a tiny amount of colostrum from her though, that I enjoyed right there.. I can tell it was extremely delicious... like the softest most heavenly tasting HWC
I believe sheep milk is the very best if any.
And. I do believe it is unnatural to get milk in winter, or say, then they get hay and as Van experienced, it will not be the same. IDK if they are able to give milk all winter long with only hay either. The neighbor alwasy feed them oats (in addition to the hay) to his goats so they give him milk.
I know for many animals the products they give are seasonal. Also our hens will not lay eggs in winter if we do not feed them special feed. Not even oats will do. In the nature everything has its seasons. Just meat and fish and that kind of things you will always find present, every season.
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You could buy fresh sheep's milk?
yes its always available from the dairy club and is quite heavenly.
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yes its always available from the dairy club and is quite heavenly.
Have you ever made your own butter/cheese from it?
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No. Iv had sheep cheese though and it was just as heavenly as the milk.
I dont think id make the butter as iv always had zero issues digesting any amount of raw butter even from the very first day i started consuming it.
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We have sheep. In spring when the lambs got born I tried to milk the mama... but I can tell that is way more difficult than a goat, and I have milked goats this summer too by the neighbor. I got a tiny amount of colostrum from her though, that I enjoyed right there.. I can tell it was extremely delicious... like the softest most heavenly tasting HWC
I believe sheep milk is the very best if any.
And. I do believe it is unnatural to get milk in winter, or say, then they get hay and as Van experienced, it will not be the same. IDK if they are able to give milk all winter long with only hay either. The neighbor alwasy feed them oats (in addition to the hay) to his goats so they give him milk.
I know for many animals the products they give are seasonal. Also our hens will not lay eggs in winter if we do not feed them special feed. Not even oats will do. In the nature everything has its seasons. Just meat and fish and that kind of things you will always find present, every season.
what would these animals eat in the winter then if no hay? What do such animals do in the wild? Eat the leaves off twigs?
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Very few animals keep providing their young milk through the winter. Most are born in the spring, when the grasses are the greenest and healthiest, and are weened by the fall. Nature works. Another thing to look at if you're drinking milk year round.
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what im asking though is what the animals eat to survive the winter. Surely they dont fast all winter?
dont goats prefer the types of tough weeds and young shoots that are around in the winter?
what about the nenets and chukchi people of siberia where there is always snow? They do not feed hay yet I see videos of them milking their reindeer in the snow where I see almost no plant life around.
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there's obviously enough food to keep them alive till spring, but that's about it (keeping them alive). If they were in milk, it wouldn't have the nutrition (fatty acid profile for instance) of milk from animals eating green spring grass shoots. Hence the idea as to those who 'keep' cows in milk over the winter can only feed dried food stuffs (that's why they created silage) and the milk is less than second rate to milk from green food. Hence my story of repeated cold like symptoms for the years I kept goats (milked them into the winter) into the fall where green food was scarce.
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Hi,
Thanks for the replies. I do suspect that, compared to the fresh alpine-grass eating goat's milk I spent the summer drinking, the hay-eating (and 'feed'-eating) sheep's milk I'm drinking now is inferior. Still a million times better than supermarket milk!
what im asking though is what the animals eat to survive the winter. Surely they dont fast all winter?
dont goats prefer the types of tough weeds and young shoots that are around in the winter?
what about the nenets and chukchi people of siberia where there is always snow? They do not feed hay yet I see videos of them milking their reindeer in the snow where I see almost no plant life around.
A couple of years ago I saw the BBC documentary about life in Yellowstone. The bison are rooting around under the snow for bits of dried or frozen grass and almost starve. I assume that only the strong survive the winter. This may work for wild animals who are just staying alive, but not for a farm that needs to keep a flock healthy and producing milk.
As for the question about butter: I don't think butter can be made from sheep's or goat's milk. Cow's milk will separate into cream and skim, and butter is then made from the cream. Sheep and goat milk is naturally homogenous.
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As for the question about butter: I don't think butter can be made from sheep's or goat's milk. Cow's milk will separate into cream and skim, and butter is then made from the cream. Sheep and goat milk is naturally homogenous.
I can't speak for sheep's milk, but I know you can make goat butter. It requires a special cream separator machine. I think it's mainly just a centrifuge-type machine. You can get them on Ebay.
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I ordered sheep butter from Millers a while back and it was the most delicious butter I have ever tasted. It was not salted either.