Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet to Suit You => Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach => Topic started by: Poncho on April 24, 2013, 10:21:45 pm
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Okay, so there has been much discussion pertaining to malnourishment throughout my 3 years of recovery so far.
I was always fearful of malnourishment, thinking that if I missed a meal I would get very sick.
Then after much hunting I came to find that we dont actually NEED 3 meals a day at all.
That changed things.
Then I came to find that a little bit of raw organic anything goes a long way.
That changed things.
Then I was told that eating just raw meat would leave me malnourished.
That changed things.
Then just yesterday I was talking to my social worker about my strange and controversial recovery methods,
she brings up the recovery of a past client of hers.
Something was very wrong with his stomach, the doctors had him on a white rice and water diet.
FOR SIX MONTHS
And he was doing SIGNIFICANTLY better than before he started the rice.
And then he slowly began introducing other foods back into his diet.
Now he's doing very well I hear.
SO my conclusion is that the human body is completely incomprehensible.
And that I was never malnourished at all.
At least not because of the food I was or wasn't eating.
Maybe because my body couldn't actually digest ANY food. Except raw meat.. or maybe rice haha.
I would not do the rice thing.
Right now I'm eating a 100% raw meat diet, with raw goats cheese and organic kimchi added once in a while.
I drink lots of kombucha that I made myself (brewed it for over a month to let mother use up as much sugar as possible)
I'm not scared of malnourishment from eating almost entirely raw meat, because I know that if I believed in doctors advice, I would probably be on the rice and water diet too. And I would do just fine with it.
I'm getting good nutrients. I can see it on my face. I can feel it in my stomach.
I'm healing.
My blog!:
http://rawreconstruction.com (http://rawreconstruction.com)
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Most of us probably suffer from some degree of malnutrition, owing to the ubiquity of low quality foods and the high cost of high quality foods. We all have healing to do on this front, even those of us who have been doing this for a long time.
Eating animal foods from animals raised on a nutrient rich diet with minimal stress and minimal exposure to toxics is important. Eating plant foods grown in nutrient rich soil with minimal stress and minimal exposure to toxics is also important. Living a lifestyle that ensures access to these foods, minimizes our own stress and exposure to toxics is also very important. All three of these combat malnutrition. Remove any of them, and the risk of malnutrition goes up, and the challenge of healing past malnutrition increases.
My two cents...
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I agree haha
I was just saying that we really arent at risk of dying of malnutrition... at least not if we have a computer connected to the internet..
So people should stop talking about it
But I want to be optimal, that's my goal.
I plan on living in nature and having chickens and goats of my own, and freshly caught game for dinner.
I already make all of my own home products, no poisons.
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You're right, of course. It takes an extraordinary level of malnutrition to actually kill someone. Even people in Sub-Saharan Africa forced to live on 500 Cal of grain-derived gruel each day manage to stay alive, for the most part.
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Most of us probably suffer from some degree of malnutrition, owing to the ubiquity of low quality foods and the high cost of high quality foods. We all have healing to do on this front, even those of us who have been doing this for a long time.
Do some RPD'ers start slacking on food quality after being on the diet for a while?
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Do some RPD'ers start slacking on food quality after being on the diet for a while?
If anything, I've gotten MORE stringent about food quality. I really notice a difference in my health with better-quality food.
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If anything, I've gotten MORE stringent about food quality. I really notice a difference in my health with better-quality food.
I've noticed the difference that food quality makes since my second month eating raw meat.
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some sound advice-never trust a social worker.
get away from these people as fast as you can.
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I am a very good at judging character.
I have been working with this social-worker for years now.
She is commonly fired from cases by the case-managers for being too honest with her clients.
She tells her clients things like "You are the boss of us, you are in control of your case".
She is legitimate. I have fired OTs from my case a few times,
I am very cautious.
I can see through people, and always go against the grain.
That's why I'm considered hard to work with.
Saying 'never trust a social worker'
is just like saying 'never trust a black person'
It's 2013. Get with the times.
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Sorry everyone I know who has a social worker was either a criminal or someone on welfare assigned one by the government so they could basically spy on them and give out horrible advice like get your flu vaccine.
Didnt realize that you were talking about occupational therapists.
Either way you dont need any of these people. You only need to trust yourself and god who made the world perfectly with foods in the perfect state they need to be in to heal us unless you destroy gods original designs with things like heat or chemical processes.
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I have a rehab team, a bunch of different therapists.
I really benefit from my social worker, because she listens to me and knows me and can tell me when I'm wrong.
No one else can give me such solid advice, because she has heard it all from me as well as many others.
Since I have no one experienced to talk to, no one that understands brain injury victims at all or the legal system itself, I need someone to talk to.
I'm aware that I wouldn't die without her.
Whats with you being all "You don't NEED that for survival, so get rid of it!"
haha, things help! She helps a lot.
It's nice being helped, especially for someone like me.
I used to be the helper, but now that my brain is all fucked up, I need someone.
Not literal 'need'. But need nonetheless.
Give me a break haha
Word on the street is, I'm doing pretty exceptionally well considering.
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You'll notice some on the forum have strong ideals. Stick to your gut intuition. If you think the social workers, therapists, etc. are helping. Don't drop them.
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You should really read we want to live by aajonus vondrplanitz. The book describes in detail how he healed his son WHO HAD THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM AS YOU. I cant imagine anything being bigger help than that.
And of course your doing well, youve figured out about raw foods. All you really need to do now is sit back and enjoy the healing but if you think these people can help you go ahead, youve met them not me. Im sure if you kept eating right though youd be a totally functional person no matter what you do in a few years.
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Then just yesterday I was talking to my social worker about my strange and controversial recovery methods,
she brings up the recovery of a past client of hers.
Something was very wrong with his stomach, the doctors had him on a white rice and water diet.
FOR SIX MONTHS
And he was doing SIGNIFICANTLY better than before he started the rice.
And then he slowly began introducing other foods back into his diet.
Now he's doing very well I hear.
also thats a very suspicious story. I personally cant think of anything worse than a rice and water diet. Feeling well on diet is definitly not all in your head. I did vegetarianism for years thinking its was the spiritual karma answer to all my problems or something stupid like that. I believed it completely and got worse and worse while my beliefe stayed strong. The first time i had a raw meat meal i became almost manic and swore to go totally raw. I got better every day ever since,
Health and nourishment is definitly all about food. Im completely sure youd be totally miserable right now on rice and water. Grains are actually the number one worst type of food a person a could eat and they make me feel worse than anything.
The human body is actually pretty comprehensible in my opinion. Im so tired of people making simple things so complicated. The world is quite a simple place in many ways. Not to say there are no mysteries.
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The human body is actually pretty comprehensible in my opinion. Im so tired of people making simple things so complicated. The world is quite a simple place in many ways. Not to say there are no mysteries.
When you were a convinced vegan I bet it was all simple as well, right? Man isn't meant to eat animal, all animals are sacred. Eating an all plant diet is cleaning both the body and the mind in perfect harmony. See; Simple!
I don't like overcomplicating things in general but I do recognise that health and nutrition are complicated. So many people pick a single idea or ideology and cling to it fiercely. This form of simplification is comforting. One answer for every problem. The reality is, of course, that there are infinite answers to every problem many of which have elements of a possible truth in them.
The philosophical idea that there is only one truth thus one correct answer to every problem went out the window with the birth of quantum science.
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Word on the street is, I'm doing pretty exceptionally well considering.
Lol word on the street... Congratulations. Keep up the good work. I don't consume dairy so I don't know to much about it. But I've seen in various places on the forum the calcium/magnesium balance being mentioned if dairy is over consumed. Since I don't consume dairy I haven't looked into it really. Maybe troll would like to comment?
I think spinach and bananas are high in magnesium. I'm not totally sure what else is though.
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Alright,
quick summary:
Health is very complicated
Health has many ways of being achieved (debatable theoretically, but many raw vegan peoples live happy healthy years. I don't get it)
I am VERY unstable, and emotional, and am sorry about that.
I have to read 'we all want to live
If someone is killing themselves with a fast food and cigarettes diet, I'm sure the rice and water would be a nice cleanse.
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Found it
Child boards: newbie sections - dangers of dairy
Then there's the issue of the extremely lopsided Calcium:Magnesium ratio of dairy(c.12:1). In Palaeolithic times, the caveman diet had a calcium:magnesium ratio was only c. 1:1 - but our modern dairy-filled diet has on average a 4:1 Calcium:Magnesium ratio which is most unhealthy, as excessive calcium in the diet(above 1:1) ends up blocking the intake of magnesium into the body, thus leading to magnesium-deficiency:-
http://www.paleodiet.com/losspts.txt (http://www.paleodiet.com/losspts.txt)
Since magnesium is an essential component of the human body, a lack of magnesium leads onto various minor to major health-problems:-
http://www.ctds.info/5_13_magnesium.html (http://www.ctds.info/5_13_magnesium.html)
http://www.ctds.info/magnesium.html (http://www.ctds.info/magnesium.html)
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Oh no.
oh no oh no oh no.
What do I do?
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Youre the best for pointing that out.
I really wondered how I could possibly be so low in magnesium.
My mom left me a book on magnesium yesterday, I started reading it right away,
now I understand why I was lacking.
But have no idea what to do about it
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You can use magnesium bath salts - either Epsom salts or magnesium citrate - in your bath water and soak. Magnesium can be absorbed through the skin.
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When you were a convinced vegan I bet it was all simple as well, right? Man isn't meant to eat animal, all animals are sacred. Eating an all plant diet is cleaning both the body and the mind in perfect harmony. See; Simple!
I don't like overcomplicating things in general but I do recognise that health and nutrition are complicated. So many people pick a single idea or ideology and cling to it fiercely. This form of simplification is comforting. One answer for every problem. The reality is, of course, that there are infinite answers to every problem many of which have elements of a possible truth in them.
The philosophical idea that there is only one truth thus one correct answer to every problem went out the window with the birth of quantum science.
Veganism was simple except it didnt work. Raw animal foods work with no issues and the concept of eating foods the way god designed them simply works. The creation is perfect, humans make it imperfect.
cegans can live happily for a few years but 99% of them always start rapid deterioration after the first few years. There are very few exceptions to this rule.
And If you want to believe in quantum "science" thats your problem. I personally am not going to believe theosophical religious ideas just because someone puts a scientific guise under it. Remember, theosophy was supposed to be the blending of science with religion and thats exactly what we have. If mind power worked than raw veganism would have definitly healed me because my belief could not have been stronger. I went onto ra animals with no belief, simply out of being so miserable that i didnt even care if it killed me.
And can you please stop with all the worrying, ill solve your magnesium problem with one word if you really want to worry about ratios and all this other crap that doesnt really matter. ALl you need is your instincts if you start thinking about all these ratios youll drive yourself crazy, if your body is deficient in something you will start to crave it once your instincts are fully functioning (after about a year of no cooked food probably. After that just follow your cravings and youll have nothing to worry about. (this isnt to say jsut because your body craves a boatload of fruit you should go for it, you should also take into account whether or not you feel good after lots of fruit but that eventually because a part of your instincts too.
The magic word is scallops, you can thank me later.
and can we please not recommend people take horrible chemicals like epsom salts on here? What terrible advice, epsom salts are the vilest thing I have ever ingested. They were useful as part of the violent liver cleanse if you want quick and violent healing rather than slow and gentle.
This is the raw paleo forum, if you want to tell people to kill themselves with chemicals please do that somewhere else.
Keep ti simple...or drive yourself crazy
life really is pretty simple, its only the ones trying to confuse you (and those who dont know any better) making it seem otherwise.
Please relax.
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also note that 99.9 percent of dairy studies are done on pasteurized dairy and are therefore completely meaningless us.
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You can use magnesium bath salts - either Epsom salts or magnesium citrate - in your bath water and soak. Magnesium can be absorbed through the skin.
Thank you!
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No need to get so sassy mr troll, not all of us are perfect like you.
Not yet at least.
For now, dairy is really making me gain weight, so I will stick to it unless someone has a better idea.
The thing is, me having to eat this unnatural dairy is causing an unnatural depletion of magnesium it seems.
I have read lots in the short time that I've known about this.
It seems legit.
So a magnesium bath, however horribly unnatural, seems logical. I will give it a try.
Scallops suck, I want to throw up when I taste them, but I will try eating more of those too.
I try mostly everything.
Don't tell me not to try so much stuff,
because I will anyways.
I'm weird, my body is right out of it, I can't afford to stop trying weird stuff.
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No need to get so sassy mr troll, not all of us are perfect like you.
Not yet at least.
For now, dairy is really making me gain weight, so I will stick to it unless someone has a better idea.
The thing is, me having to eat this unnatural dairy is causing an unnatural depletion of magnesium it seems.
I have read lots in the short time that I've known about this.
It seems legit.
So a magnesium bath, however horribly unnatural, seems logical. I will give it a try.
Scallops suck, I want to throw up when I taste them, but I will try eating more of those too.
I try mostly everything.
Don't tell me not to try so much stuff,
because I will anyways.
I'm weird, my body is right out of it, I can't afford to stop trying weird stuff.
You'd probably see better results with a simple magnesium supplement, and it would be a lot cheaper, too. Scallops are high in magnesium, but they aren't going to balance out the extremes of dairy. The way I take dairy is by letting it sit at room temperature in the dark and separate into milk and cream. I let it ferment, then eat the soured cream off the top. I throw away the rest. This fixes the calcium/magnesium problem.
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So apparently raw dairy is so bad and unnatural because of some study someone did on pasteurized dairy and soaking yourself in chemicals is how you make dairy good for you....alrighty then....
and if you think scallops are bad try taking the recommended dosage of epsom salt orally. I guarantee you have never experienced something so vile.
and im so happy for all the people here with time machines who know exactly when humans started using dairy. Please let me know where I can get one to verify.
Maybe ill also very that Sumeria was the first civilization while im at it (LOL) and a whole host of other stuff the darwinist (read:hindu/brahminist) washers of brains have led society to believe.
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Getting so sassy doesn't help anyone sir.
If raw dairy is natural then why would it be so severely depleting my magnesium?
It wouldn't? I dont even know what side you're on haha
I said that I would try scallops again.
I don't feel like eating vile salts....
This is pretty dumb honestly, I don't even remember the point.
I'll read back sure, but the point is that right now I don't remember the point.
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The point is that someone here told you raw dairy is bad based on a study done on pasteurized dairy which obviously makes no sense.
Then someone told you to fix that problem by soaking yourself in chemicals, more dumb advice.
and then we have the third genius saying you should take magnesium pills instead of eating shellfish.... god the madness never ends\
this is the raw paleo forum, we are supposed to heal ourselves with raw foods here, where are all the sensible people from this forum on this thread?? have we jsut become a bunch of chemical heads?
what your chemical recommendations are is the equivalent of me going to a christian forum and saying people need sacrifice children on top of a pyramid to make god happy instead of simple prayer.
Whether or not it depletes magnesium is not something im too concerned with either way because i eat shellfish of varying kinds regularly since it is the most nutritious food on this planet.. If you are concerned try scallops or mussels or some other shellfish high in magnesium. If you think chemicals are how you solve problems though you should go to your local allopathic torture center where you will surely find the right chemical miracle for every problem you could every imagine!
Im on the side of not caring about stuff like this and becoming orthorexic with my measurements of ratios of nutrients and omegas and writing down everything you eat and all this other crap. Its a waste of time. Once your body gets completely used to raw foods as soon as there is a deficiency your body will crave the food you need to fix it.
Or you could go crazy reading all these studies (done on cooked foods) about how certain foods are bad when these studies dont apply to raw foods at all.
If you want I can pull up all these studies proving beyond a doubt that eating meat is very bad for you. They may have been done on cooked meat but I guess you should jsut apply the conclusions to raw meat and jsut give up raw meat altogether....
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Oh no.
oh no oh no oh no.
What do I do?
Probably not a huge deal lol. But like they recommended an epsom salt bath is one way to go, a supplement, or even magnesium rich foods. I'm definitely not recommending you cut out dairy, it seems to be really helping you.
And svrn/troll why are you being such a drama queen? Not getting enough magnesium is relevant in this situation. I don't know exactly what poncho's been eating, but I think knowing about the mag/cal balance is important. Just like it's helpful for newbies to know most long term RPD'ers don't just eat muscle meat, a mistake most beginners make.
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How do you know its relevant? Because you have some study done on pasteurized dairy? Sorry but thats not good enough.
And now people want to promote chemical baths and supplement pills on here? Nope thats not okay either.
William got banned for trolling in favor of tallow on here. and rightfully so because this a raw foods forum. So whats worse putting your suet in a centrifuge or chemically isolated magnesium that cant even be absorbed by the human body?
Im gonna have to call out garbage advice if if i see it. THis is a health forum not a friendliness forum and im serious about people getting the good advice they need to heal, im not in here to be a constant nod of approval for garbage advice, people need to be told of these errors.
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And now people want to promote chemical baths and supplement pills on here? Nope thats not okay either.
Are you really gonna sit here and troll on supplements? It's that kind of advice that limits healing. I need supplements. When I first started raw paleo and the "raw purists" on the forum like you suggested against supplements, it lead to nothing but trouble for me. When I reintroduced supplements is when I finally was able to start healing.
The problem is you think you know everything there is about nutrition and health. The fact is what you know is that what you're doing is what's working for you. If I cut out supplements, my health goes to shit.
So again - you're advocating that what works for you will work for everyone. But what works for you doesn't work for me, and certainly won't work for everyone.
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magnesium baths feel amazing. its pretty similar to taking a dunk in a hot spring with a high concentration of mag.
people have, since the dawn of people, flocked to hot springs and mineral waters with high contents of healing minerals, like lithium, sulphur...etc...
while mimicking that by using inexpensive Epsom salts isn't ideal, it is an option for those of us who don't have a natural mineral hot spring handy.
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Oh my god, how many times do I have to repeat that all you need is shellfish. No need for chemical baths of any sort or supplements.
And supplements are dangerous. they can help you in the short term but will always end up causing damage in the long run. We are trying to heal people, not give them a short term solution that causes an even worse long term problem.
If you take enough supplements you WILL develop toxic glands, particularly the liver. People who get energy from supplements are only recieving get because of the classic response of the liver to a toxic assault which is production of glycogen. This is the exact same reason why coffee and cigarettes give you a boost.
If you think heated food is harmful you should see the stuff they do extract these supplements, is goes far beyond heating and always involves powerful chemicals that end up in the final product.
If william got banned for promoting centrifuged suet its only fair that people be banned for promoting things that are much more processed than mere tallow.
People need to stop promoting chemicals on here before we are completely overrun by allopathic medicine. It is a system of death not healing and all of these chemicals cause tons of damage in the human body.
also boss you arent even on a raw food diet and often eat cooked foods for long periods of time so your experience with supplements isnt even valid. A person eating cooked food and constantly taking in all of those heat created toxins wont be able to feel the slight added detriment of the supplements and may only experience benefit due taking in so many other toxins at the same time. For someone on a raw food diet supplements are only detrimental.
Also you should stop talking like you know everything since 1)youve only been eating raw meat for a few months, and 2) several of those months you have been eating cooked food as well.
Basically you dont really know what your talking about and are giving out dangerous advice. Please stop.
epsom salts are also extracted with tons of chemical processes. Not only that but salt is quite dangerous in general, one molecule destroys thousands of healthy cells upon contact. Sodium is actually a dangerous explosive material tht bombs are often made of and it explodes in your body the same way.
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Shellfish, I wish I like it more. I do have Drakes Bay Oysters near by (just north of SF) but I tend to have make myself choose them over a meal of buffalo sirloin. As far as scallops go, yum, when they are fresh. But that is a Rarity where I live, and when they do appear fresh, they are in some sort of preservative. So, bottom line, for at least me, is it's just not that realistic to say 'scallops' to someone and expect them to find ones worth eating, especially that someone might live in Canada (although they grow some good oysters there too. I would like to learn more about epsom salts and the production processes around them.
Lately I'm experimenting by not taking ionic sea minerals daily (probably took in about 5-600 mg of mg daily from them) and am know focusing on seaweeds. I soak arame from Larch in maine, and drink the runoff, and also then put the seaweed then through a grinder, very small sieve, and soak again. I really like the flavor. I also eat Larch's Dulse which literally melts in your mouth. I'm doing this as an experiment on my own to see if what is written about organic and inorganic minerals is true, as to how they May or May not be taken up in the body. I also have switched to a steam distiller to start with pure water.
I too like the idea of leaving behind all processed foods/vits out of a jar, and would suggest everyone here to find live raw food sources for our nourishment,, if possible.
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Scallops are not the only option. Mussels are also very high in magnesium. Lots of shellfish have tons of bioavailable amgnesium. Oysters and halibut too. Just eating seafood in general will provide enough magnesium.
I already experimented with himalayan salt, it did nothing good for me. Perhaps it can be good for people on cooked food diets but I wouldnt know.
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If you take enough supplements you WILL develop toxic glands, particularly the liver. People who get energy from supplements are only recieving get because of the classic response of the liver to a toxic assault which is production of glycogen. This is the exact same reason why coffee and cigarettes give you a boost.
Isn't this one of Aajonous' claims? One he made without any scientific evidence? Ie no study, pretty much just made it up?
LOL actually it is. You seem to have almost quoted him word for word.
"I experimented with supplements. The more supplements I consumed the weaker I got. I realized within 6 months that supplements were toxic on a raw diet. Over the 2-year period I observed that most people who took megavitamin therapy developed toxic livers and glands. It showed up in their irises as well as temperaments and physical condition. But because they experienced an increase in energy. they thought it beneficial. Their highs were from toxic emergencies - the liver sending out hormones calling forth glycogen to handle the toxicity.
Supplement-toxicity is similar to coffee or cigarettes, most often producing debilitating side effects. It destroyed my desire and ability to exercise. I never returned to exercise and yet I developed and redeveloped the physique that accompanies strenuous regular exercise. "
From - http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/bass/aajonus.html (http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/bass/aajonus.html)
also boss you arent even on a raw food diet and often eat cooked foods for long periods of time so your experience with supplements isnt even valid. A person eating cooked food and constantly taking in all of those heat created toxins wont be able to feel the slight added detriment of the supplements and may only experience benefit due taking in so many other toxins at the same time. For someone on a raw food diet supplements are only detrimental.
Actually, I've been on a fully raw diet with supplements since March of this year. And I'm not sure if you're aware of this. But when I first started raw paleo in January 2012 I stopped my supplements. My raw paleo experiment lasted maybe a month before I was hospitalized thanks to cutting out the supplements. In fact, I didn't recover from that episode until I reintroduced the supplements.
So again, been fully raw (haven't eaten anything cooked) since March, AND taking supplements. I'm actually doing great. I'll let you know when the liver toxicity Aajonous talks about kicks in (LOL).
Also you should stop talking like you know everything since 1)youve only been eating raw meat for a few months, and 2) several of those months you have been eating cooked food as well.
Actually, I've been eating raw animal foods since January 2012. Due to cutting out the supplements, I spent many months not having the money to consume an all raw diet. However, upon reintroducing the supplements I returned to work, and got back on a raw diet.
Basically you dont really know what your talking about and are giving out dangerous advice. Please stop.
Funny, and ironic at the same time. Because the advice you're throwing out (as if it's universal to everyone), is what made me very sick for a long time. So troll/svrn, please stop giving out dangerous advice, you don't know what you're talking about.
epsom salts are also extracted with tons of chemical processes. Not only that but salt is quite dangerous in general, one molecule destroys thousands of healthy cells upon contact. Sodium is actually a dangerous explosive material tht bombs are often made of and it explodes in your body the same way.
You speak as if sodium is toxic. Maybe you just haven't found a good salt? I found a very good salt, called "Real Salt," which works great for me. In fact, when I noticed my energy declining on a raw diet, I decided to add salt. This salt brought my energy back. Feel free to discredit this also with one of Aajonous' unfounded, unproven claims.
I too like the idea of leaving behind all processed foods/vits out of a jar, and would suggest everyone here to find live raw food sources for our nourishment,, if possible.
I agree here. I in no way shape or form think we should seek to get our nutrients from supplements like SADieters do. Nor do I think it's best to go for a supplement rather than whole foods.
However, there are situations where supplements are needed. I for one can't get the amounts of niacin (15,000%+), b complex (8,000%+), and vitamin c (5,000%+) recommended by Dr. Abram Hoffer for the treatment of schizophrenia. In my situation, I need the supplements if I want to function normally.
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so apparently im not allowed to say anything that aajonus said.
If you want studies heres a link to an infinite number of studies proving liver toxicity.
http://www.google.com/search?q=supplements+liver+toxicity&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&client=firefox-a&oq=supplements+liver+toxicity&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...495170.498659.0.498770.26.13.0.12.12.0.163.1103.10j3.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.15.heirloom-serp.HvxYeGVGwPQ (http://www.google.com/search?q=supplements+liver+toxicity&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&client=firefox-a&oq=supplements+liver+toxicity&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...495170.498659.0.498770.26.13.0.12.12.0.163.1103.10j3.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.15.heirloom-serp.HvxYeGVGwPQ)
you will find theres no shortage of studies on the dangers of supplements. But i guess since aajonus said it its automatically invalid even though theres endless studies proving the same thing.
I also find it funny how badmouth aajonus any chance you get yet you follow this scd legal nonesense to the t as well as following the advice of some doctor without questioning it.
.
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so apparently im not allowed to say anything that aajonus said.
You're more than welcome to quote Aajonous, just don't expect it to seem credible coming from the guy who never cites any proof for his claims.
If you want studies heres a link to an infinite number of studies proving liver toxicity.
http://www.google.com/search?q=supplements+liver+toxicity&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&client=firefox-a&oq=supplements+liver+toxicity&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...495170.498659.0.498770.26.13.0.12.12.0.163.1103.10j3.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.15.heirloom-serp.HvxYeGVGwPQ (http://www.google.com/search?q=supplements+liver+toxicity&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&client=firefox-a&oq=supplements+liver+toxicity&gs_l=heirloom-serp.3...495170.498659.0.498770.26.13.0.12.12.0.163.1103.10j3.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.15.heirloom-serp.HvxYeGVGwPQ)
you will find theres no shortage of studies on the dangers of supplements. But i guess since aajonus said it its automatically invalid even though theres endless studies proving the same thing.
Troll/SVRN, I don't understand. Some times you tell us how studies are b/s because they're all, idk, flawed? Meant to show some bias toward something to help the government gain control over its citizens, right? To brain wash the masses... On the other hand you're quoting studies...
Any way. Here's the first link found on a google search for "supplements liver toxicity."
http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/news/20120523/some-dietary-supplements-linked-to-liver-damage (http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/news/20120523/some-dietary-supplements-linked-to-liver-damage)
"Bodybuilding and weight loss supplements may help you look better, but with some of these supplements there's an ugly tradeoff: a very real risk of liver damage."
"Bodybuilding and weight loss supplements were by far the biggest offenders, linked to 34% and 26% of 93 cases studied,"
I'm not taking any bodybuilding or weight loss supplements.
"Plus, the absolute risk of any one person developing supplement-associated liver injury may be very small, he says."
Very small.... Again this first one mainly talks about bodybuilding and weight loss supplements.
And the great conclusion of the article!
"Navarro did disclose he has done consulting work for the pharmaceutical company Merck."
Conflict of interest much?
Second article - http://abcnews.go.com/Health/herbal-dietary-supplements-toll-liver/story?id=16408959#.UaePZNKOTSk (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/herbal-dietary-supplements-toll-liver/story?id=16408959#.UaePZNKOTSk)
Mentions pretty much nothing but bodybuilding and weight loss supplements.
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=20320 (http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=20320)
Mentions a bunch of supplements I don't take.
I also find it funny how badmouth aajonus any chance you get yet you follow this scd legal nonesense to the t as well as following the advice of some doctor without questioning it..
SCD is very well researched, by very well educated people. And has a ton of positive reviews to how well it works.
http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Vicious-Cycle-Intestinal-Through/dp/0969276818/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369936252&sr=8-1&keywords=breaking+the+vicious+cycle (http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Vicious-Cycle-Intestinal-Through/dp/0969276818/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369936252&sr=8-1&keywords=breaking+the+vicious+cycle)
300+ reviews on how much it helped their digestive ailments.
And Dr. Abram Hoffer's work is very well researched too.
Any way... If you want to make a new thread on why supplements are bad. Or why SCD isn't credible. Why schizophrenics shouldn't take supplements that help them.... Why you think Aajonous is credible.. Or anything else, feel free to. But let's stop posting in this thread since it's irrelevant to all those things.
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i also reiewed some of your posts.
Please stop changing your story to fit in with your supplement promotion.
You wrote yourself that you got hospitalized after you went cold turkey on geodon.
Well anyone who knows anything knows that going cold turkey on psych meds like geodon is extremely dangerous and should only be tapered off gradually. I could have told you in advance yud be hospitalized for cold turkeying that.
So after reading previous posts of yours I now know that it was quitting geodon that got you hospitalized not quitting supplements. Please get your story straight.
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i also reiewed some of your posts.
Please stop changing your story to fit in with your supplement promotion.
You wrote yourself that you got hospitalized after you went cold turkey on geodon.
Well anyone who knows anything knows that going cold turkey on psych meds like geodon is extremely dangerous and should only be tapered off gradually. I could have told you in advance yud be hospitalized for cold turkeying that.
So after reading previous posts of yours I now know that it was quitting geodon that got you hospitalized not quitting supplements. Please get your story straight.
I actually stopped the geodon and supplements at the same time. However I was on such a low dose of the geodon (40 mg) that certain doctors said it wasn't a problem.
Also, when they put me back on the geodon and I continued with a raw diet, there was no recovery.
Feel free to post in my journal on the matter, as to stop trolling on her thread where she's seeking advice.
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Good job cherry picking some webpages from a google search and telling me that those pages are my argument.
Have you ever heard of a strawman argument? Because thats exactly what you just did.
The point of me putting the google search on there is because I hate doing simple research for other people.
I personally dont care about studies at all but thats what you asked for and when I give it to you you want to cry about it just like every other time I prove something to someone. With this kind of behavior i dont understand how im meant to prove anything to anyone.
If you insist on my doing the research for you I will at least post one study that shows what you are doing to your liver with those niacin pills.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/vitamin-b3-000335.htm (http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/vitamin-b3-000335.htm)
i mean you could have just typed in niacin liver damage into google and clicked the first thing that came up like I did but apparently thats too difficult.
Note that studies still mean nothing to me, im just entertaining your need for "officialdom" and titles like dr or md and your trust in "expert analysis".
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and once again I get blamed for derailing the thread. (a nonsense thread about how eating white rice diet would probably work as well as raw paleo, which was derailed into debunking other nonsense such as soaking your body in chemicals and eating chemicals to improve your health...am I still on the RAW paleo forum where people have been banned for as little as promoting tallow?)
Im not talking to myself here buddy, you are at least as guilty of it as me. I believe more so because im not the one who started promoting chemicals for healing on the RAW PALEO DIET FORUM). Im just the one who is defending the integrity of this forum as a place for discussion of healing through foods. Im not the one who started trouble, just the one doing what the moderators are supposed to be doing which is removing trolls who promote things like raw veganism veganism/vegetarianism in general and most of all allopathic medicine. The mods are supposed to remove such talk and have in the past for such minor cases as William, Where the people banned William are right now I do not know but they should take notice of these promotions of chemical healing.
it takes two to tango.
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as far as you quitting supplements at the same, jsut do a simple google search.
People are regularly hospitalized for getting off geodon and the reports of it on google are endless, even amounts as low as you took.
I cant find one instance online of someone getting hospitalized after quitting supplements.
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If you insist on my doing the research for you I will at least post one study that shows what you are doing to your liver with those niacin pills.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/vitamin-b3-000335.htm (http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/vitamin-b3-000335.htm)
i mean you could have just typed in niacin liver damage into google and clicked the first thing that came up like I did but apparently thats too difficult.
I'm well aware of the mainstream media's opinion of large doses of niacin. I'm also well aware of the founder of niacin for cholesterol and schizophrenia treatment, Dr. Hoffer's, opinion.
http://www.doctoryourself.com/Hoffer2009int.pdf (http://www.doctoryourself.com/Hoffer2009int.pdf)
"Saul: If I do not press this point, a reader
will: maintained high doses of niacin may
raise liver function tests, and this is used
as evidence of harm.
Hoffer: Niacin is not liver toxic. Niacin
therapy increases liver function tests. But
this elevation means that the liver is active.
It does not indicate an underlying liver
pathology. Dr. Bill Parsons discussed this
extremely well in his book on niacin and
cholesterol (Cholesterol Control Without
Diet, Lilac Press, 2000). I personally have
been on ,500 to 6,000 mg daily since 955.
The biggest danger of taking niacin is that
you live longer. One of my patients is 2.
She does cross country skiing and has been
on niacin for 42 years. The fear doctors
have of niacin is not based on data or facts
and, like any myth, is very hard to eradicate. So many patients are on niacin that
by chance some will also have liver damage
from other conditions such as alcoholism,
hepatitis and so on. Niacin does not make
it any better nor worse."
I cant find one instance online of someone getting hospitalized after quitting supplements.
Upon a 30 second google search I found 2 cases.
http://regainmentalhealth.com/?page_id=83 (http://regainmentalhealth.com/?page_id=83)
"I report two cases of severe paranoid schizophrenia of acute onset who recovered IMMEDIATELY right in front of me with the use of mega dose of niacin. Niacin, like niacinamide, is vitamin B3. Discontinuation of niacin led to relapse. Resumption of niacin again resulted in recovery in both the cases."
Exactly what happened to me.
Seriously stop trolling her thread. Move it to my journal.
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stop lying, neither of those two people were hospitalized after stopping niacin.
please point to where they were it says anyone was hospitalized after stopping supplements.
and great job quoting someone whos entire livelihood is telling people tot reat their illnesses using chemicals.
and remember you are the one trolling with your incessant pushing of chemical healing.
I am simply acting as an unofficial moderator to preserve the integrity of the raw paleo forum as teaching to heal with raw foods not chemicals.
Youa re the troll in this case as you are going against the forums position, I am defending the forums position on the other hand. People have been banned for promoting much less processed things than you are promoting. You are clearly the troll.
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stop lying, neither of those two people were hospitalized after stopping niacin.
please point to where they were it says anyone was hospitalized after stopping supplements.
I'll make it simple for you. Lots of schizophrenics get incredible improvement in their symptoms after adding niacin, b vitamins, and vitamin c.
http://brainblogger.com/2012/05/29/full-recovery-from-schizophrenia/ (http://brainblogger.com/2012/05/29/full-recovery-from-schizophrenia/)
http://www.doctoryourself.com/review_hoffer_B3.html (http://www.doctoryourself.com/review_hoffer_B3.html)
http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/13/4/287.pdf (http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/13/4/287.pdf)
http://www.orthomolecular.com/?ctr=article&act=show&id=37 (http://www.orthomolecular.com/?ctr=article&act=show&id=37)
Removing niacin, b vitamins, and vitamin c (supplements) removes any benefit they got from those supplements. Therefore bringing back their symptoms, therefore leading to a relapse.
Exactly what happened to me.
I am simply acting as an unofficial moderator to preserve the integrity of the raw paleo forum as teaching to heal with raw foods not chemicals.
Plenty of moderators suggest supplements, and are not nearly as one sided on the subject as you.
Seriously, stop trolling on her thread.
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Just because you got some benefit from something doesnt mean its necessarily a good solution. You may feeling good now but all those supplements will catch up to you eventually.
I can find a million testimonials of people whos lives were improved from going raw vegan. They are being honest but they will also get a myriad of other problems down the line from this diet. THis is why promoting raw veganism is not allowed here. Just because you got some benefit from chemicals doesnt mean thats the right way to heal things because it will cause problems down the road.
This is why william was banned for promoting cnetrifuged tallow which is much less processed and heated than ANY supplement out on the market today.
If trolling for centrifuged tallow is worthy of a banning shouldnt the promotion much more processed chemicals be worthy of banning as well? Please address this issue which I have tried to get you to address for about 5 posts now yet you continue to ignore it.
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Just because you got some benefit from something doesnt mean its necessarily a good solution. You may feeling good now but all those supplements will catch up to you eventually.
I've been taking these supplements since February 2009. I'll let you know when their detrimental effects catch up with me
This is why william was banned for promoting cnetrifuged tallow which is much less processed and heated than ANY supplement out on the market today.
If trolling for centrifuged tallow is worthy of a banning shouldnt the promotion much more processed chemicals be worthy of banning as well? Please address this issue which I have tried to get you to address for about 5 posts now yet you continue to ignore it.
Actually, you're twisting why William got banned. He got banned for continually promoting a cooked food on a raw forum after being warned on multiple occasions. He also had a very negative attitude, and was hard to communicate with without it turning into an argument (similar to when interacting with you).
Raw forum - promoting cooked foods. Definite no no.
Raw forum - mentioning positive uses for supplements, not contradictory to a raw forum.
I've never been told, hey DaBoss, stop giving schizophrenic members advice pertaining to supplements. I've never seen Goodsamaritan scolded for suggesting things that aren't raw paleo like liver flushes. Or other members when they mention beam rays.
Please explain why these members should be censored when promoting potentially helpful non raw paleo therapies.
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ALL SUPPLEMENTS ARE COOKED.
PROVE ME WRONG.
You are promoting not only cooked foods but foods that are highly chemically processed after being cooked. This is much worse than promoting centrifuged tallow.
WIlliam was not particularly belligerent. He was just banned because he wouldnt stop promoting tallow. What you are promoting is much more processed.
The question is, why promote chemically isolated cooked magnesium when you could jsut eat some shellfish?
This is a raw foods forum, not a cooked and chemically processed foods forum, please realize what website you are on.
To promote chemicals as having anywhere near the healing power of raw foods should not be allowed.
And i spent years taking supplements and guess what? My liver was fucked by the time i started raw foods!
and I know all about gs's liver flushes since I did them and they helped me greatly. The difference is that gs promotes the use of certain chemicals only briefly for healing purposes which is slightly dangerous but can be beneficial in the long run like it was for me.
You are promoting that if you drink dairy you should take highly cooked and chemically processed magnesium pills for the rest of your life. This is quite dangerous advice and very different from drinking epsom salts once to clear your liver and then never touching it again once your liver is clean.
A big difference between using something once and using it every single day.
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ALL SUPPLEMENTS ARE COOKED.
PROVE ME WRONG.
Ok. So ask the moderators to stop people from posting about their experiences with things that aren't raw paleo.
Tell them to stop allowing posts about Lugol's iodine. Also, ask them to stop having members post about olive oil. Get CK to stop mentioning his benefits from Vitamin D. Beamrays too, no more of that. Get Jessica to stop posting about her teas. Get Goodsamaritan to stop using supplements. No more dewormers.
The question is, why promote chemically isolated cooked magnesium when you could jsut eat some shellfish?
This is a raw foods forum, not a cooked and chemically processed foods forum, please realize what website you are on.
Actually, if you look at what I posted, I simply mentioned the calcium/magnesium ratio and that sent you off the deep end and got your panties up in a bunch.
CK I think mentioned supplements, and eveheart mentioned salt baths, which further sent you thong into your butt crack.
and I know all about gs's liver flushes since I did them and they helped me greatly. The difference is that gs promotes the use of certain chemicals only briefly for healing purposes which is slightly dangerous but can be beneficial in the long run like it was for me.
You are promoting that if you drink dairy you should take highly cooked and chemically processed magnesium pills for the rest of your life. This is quite dangerous advice and very different from drinking epsom salts once to clear your liver and then never touching it again once your liver is clean.
A big difference between using something once and using it every single day.
So you're basically saying supplements are ok so long as they're used in a manner you agree with. Otherwise they should be banned. Got it.
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Id like to just summarize some of the terrible advice given in this thread as a solution to a problem whos validity is based on studies done on pasteurized dairy. Just so we dont lose track of whats going on.
If you want to drink dairy you need to always either take a)ingest daily a highly cooked and chemically processed pills or b)regularly soak yourself in a bath full of crystallized chemicals.
Does nobody else see the insanity in such advice. I understand taking some chemical a few times for a specific healing protocol but for the rest of your life? Thats insanity.
If you are concerned about the real or imagined magnesium problem you should just eat shellfish which you should be eating anyway. didnt anyone tell you shellfish are the most nutrient dense food on the planet?" oh but theyre icky cuz they arent kosher and sometimes eat poop so I dont want any of that...."
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If you are concerned about the real or imagined magnesium problem you should just eat shellfish which you should be eating anyway. didnt anyone tell you shellfish are the most nutrient dense food on the planet?" oh but theyre icky cuz they arent kosher and sometimes eat poop so I dont want any of that...."
Actually, I don't disagree with you. It's better to get nutrients from whole foods than from a supplement. But again, it's not your decision to make. And you've allowed other member's recommendations turn you into the recommendation nazi police.
This is what you sound like.
"Hey I disagree with that advice, and since I disagree I will argue endlessly. That doesn't work for me, so it can't possibly work for anyone else."
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Youre the best for pointing that out.
I really wondered how I could possibly be so low in magnesium.
My mom left me a book on magnesium yesterday, I started reading it right away,
now I understand why I was lacking.
But have no idea what to do about it
How do you know your magnesium is low?
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Id just like to say it was stupid of me to go back and forth arguing this topic. I summarized my point in my last post well enough that its unnecessary to read the rest.
From now on I will opt to concisely state my position in the manner of my last post and thus avoid pointless back and forth posts.
No more arguing here, refer to my last post for all the info you need on my position.
Its such a beautiful system because for example every question already asked of me and any counter remark I could make to any of the posts after the summarizing one would actually just be repeating something in the summary post so in response to everything you just said, please refer to the summary post.
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How do you know your magnesium is low?
Countless reasons honestly.
This book I've got sums it all up and makes it seem pretty probable.
Then one of the guys on here said that dairy causes excess calcium that messes up the calc. mag. ratio.
I have recently started absolutely binging on raw dairy, to gain weight.
Then in the book I read about how magnesium deficiency is thought to be linked to almost every kind of depression.
It went on to describe a certain kind of depression that it's known to cause, where you can't really feel.
It isn't threatening, but you find yourself living a 'one-dimensional life'.
Amazing. Perfect description of how I have felt.
My reasons don't stop there at all
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Countless reasons honestly.
This book I've got sums it all up and makes it seem pretty probable.
Then one of the guys on here said that dairy causes excess calcium that messes up the calc. mag. ratio.
I have recently started absolutely binging on raw dairy, to gain weight.
Then in the book I read about how magnesium deficiency is thought to be linked to almost every kind of depression.
It went on to describe a certain kind of depression that it's known to cause, where you can't really feel.
It isn't threatening, but you find yourself living a 'one-dimensional life'.
Amazing. Perfect description of how I have felt.
My reasons don't stop there at all
Iv been drinking a half gallon of milk and eating a quarter to half pound of butter every day for over a year now.
I have none of these magnesium deficiency symptoms. I also eat shellfish regularly so that might explain why im fine even if the calcium thing is true.
Everyone should eat shellfish regularly. Dairy or no dairy, its one of the most beneficial things anyone could eat.
Also how long after you started dairy did the depression begin?
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Countless reasons honestly.
This book I've got sums it all up and makes it seem pretty probable.
Then one of the guys on here said that dairy causes excess calcium that messes up the calc. mag. ratio.
I have recently started absolutely binging on raw dairy, to gain weight.
Then in the book I read about how magnesium deficiency is thought to be linked to almost every kind of depression.
It went on to describe a certain kind of depression that it's known to cause, where you can't really feel.
It isn't threatening, but you find yourself living a 'one-dimensional life'.
Amazing. Perfect description of how I have felt.
My reasons don't stop there at all
Interesting. Well it wouldn't hurt to experiment with magnesium rich foods, supplements, salt baths, or anything else you prefer.
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Iv been drinking a half gallon of milk and eating a quarter to half pound of butter every day for over a year now.
I have none of these magnesium deficiency symptoms. I also eat shellfish regularly so that might explain why im fine even if the calcium thing is true.
Everyone should eat shellfish regularly. Dairy or no dairy, its one of the most beneficial things anyone could eat.
Also how long after you started dairy did the depression begin?
Oh, I had worsening depression for about 2 and a half years.
Well, I guess I should say "I have had", because I can't really say I've escaped its grasp yet.
I'm just doing a lot better than I have this whole time, it's only been a few days haha.
Many many health improvements are working together to make me feel good again I think.
I'm just saying, I really do think magnesium is doing it's part too.
I'm absolutely 100% sure that there are many different ways to improve almost every problem, so I probably don't REQUIRE magnesium to see improvements, sure.
But I do think it is helping, possibly a great deal. Possibly not. I'll never know I guess
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If its been worsening for 2 and a half years it can hardly be blamed on a magnesium deficiency caused by your consuming dairy. Whether or not there was a magnesium issue you unrelated to dairy is a different story.
What have you been doing these past few days that improved it?
Have tried any shellfish? THey should be a big aprt of anyones diet.
Have you tried high meat to help with the depression? HAve you tried raw fermented cod liver oil to help with the depression through its vitamin d content as well as its inherent high meat qualities?
If I were you id try these 100 percent natural things before you start getting weird, Id bet at least a hundred dollars right now that if you tried high meat or fermented cod liver oil for a month your depression would be at lest 70 percent better.
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Many many health improvements are working together to make me feel good again I think.
I'm just saying, I really do think magnesium is doing it's part too.
It's great that you take such a proactive approach to your health. When I first started raw paleo I had the frame of mind that all I needed was to eat raw, nutritional deficiencies wouldn't occur, I'd instinctively find the right foods, etc. I later realized that there's no such thing as "done learning" how to improve your health, which is what I felt at the time - raw paleo was the solution to all my problems lol.
I ended up adding back my supplements. Using a shower filtration system. Using fluoride free tooth paste. Special shampoos and conditioners. Trying to go to sleep at a good time and wake up early. Adding in Lugol's iodine to remove heavy metals and toxic halides.
By giving up on that I know everything I need to heal, I actually ended up adding a lot of things. And I'm sure I'll end up adding more at some point if I find something else that can improve my health. Maybe it'll be zappers (which I'm actually going to start looking into), who knows.
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If its been worsening for 2 and a half years it can hardly be blamed on a magnesium deficiency caused by your consuming dairy. Whether or not there was a magnesium issue you unrelated to dairy is a different story.
K really please read my entire post haha.
I explained that I understood that magnesium would only be a factor.
I am looking in to the fermented cod liver oil as of now, thanks!
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make sure to take at least 2 full syringes daily preferably 3, never do less than a full syringe.
this is the only reputable cod liver oil I know of
http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/CodLiverOil/ (http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/CodLiverOil/)
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It's great that you take such a proactive approach to your health. When I first started raw paleo I had the frame of mind that all I needed was to eat raw, nutritional deficiencies wouldn't occur, I'd instinctively find the right foods, etc. I later realized that there's no such thing as "done learning" how to improve your health, which is what I felt at the time - raw paleo was the solution to all my problems lol.
I ended up adding back my supplements. Using a shower filtration system. Using fluoride free tooth paste. Special shampoos and conditioners. Trying to go to sleep at a good time and wake up early. Adding in Lugol's iodine to remove heavy metals and toxic halides.
By giving up on that I know everything I need to heal, I actually ended up adding a lot of things. And I'm sure I'll end up adding more at some point if I find something else that can improve my health. Maybe it'll be zappers (which I'm actually going to start looking into), who knows.
haha I'm on that road now.
As for that link, which form should I get?
obviously unflavoured right?
and liquid?
Thanks
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You already knew what to get before asking me.
its too bad you have to pay that much for it though. My dairy club buys it in bulk so I only have to pay 30. :)
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Is this club like a fraternity?
Or can I just join?
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Come to NYC and I shall initiate you.
We require your firstborn son as a sacrifice.
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Well, I don't have a son.
But I'm also not near nyc, so maybe later
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How many 'units?' should I order?
I'm thinking one to start, but would that maybe be a bit foolish when considering shipping charges and whatnot?
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Green Pastures's website says, "Canada Law says Canadian customer can buy a 90 day supply per order only. Please consider this when you place your order. " So, maybe go for three bottles??? Or just get what you can afford??? These small decisions are hard to make. :)
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Yep canada is actually slightly crazier than america in many ways.
I usually consume one bottle per winter. I think iv consumed 3 bottles in my life so far.
I think your depression should be doing much better after one bottle bottle. You probably wont even feel like you need it anymore after you finish bottle 2. Either way you cant have too much, just keep it in the fridge.
it never spoils right? If it spoils get 1 to 2 bottles.
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how can you only take one bottle per winter but also state that you take a full syringe each time? is winter like a few weeks for you?
also whats up with all these supplement pushers on this website?
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You could all just show some moderation and common sense. My posts on the issue of the calcium/magnesium ratio in raw dairy are an excellent example.
Me personally, I prefer not to take supplements if I don't have to. However, I have a problem making/using vitamin D. It's an inborn thing I'm sure, I'm pretty sure many people in my family have it, because many of them have autoimmune problems. I don't live in a place where I can easily get enough vitamin D from the sun or from fatty fish, so I supplement.
Even if I were to use a tanning bed (which I'm not necessarily opposed to, in moderation), I still see certain benefits from oral vitamin D that I don't get from sun exposure.
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And, if niacin is helping the schizophrenic, and they can't get enough from food, then they should supplement it, with the least processed form available. It's certainly safer than any of the available drugs on the market.
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We live in a world where we can achieve actual perfection, in one sense.
And then also we can never achieve perfection, in another sense.
We can give our bodies ANYTHING it needs to be healthy,
other than a perfectly natural world.
I am unsure about what I think of that.
In nature, if we were all messed up like me, we would just die.
You know what, I probably would have died within the hour of the accident.
Here in the modern world of supplements and artificial life, I lived.
Artificial near death (vehicles), artificial things kept me alive (medically induced coma etc etc etc)
I really think that you guys are all fighting a hopeless battle wondering whether or not supplementation is okay.
This world is pretty much completely insane?
Let's not try and figure out if supplementation is truly acceptable.
Let's just do what we need to do to feel the best we can.
Why does it matter what our means are to achieve happiness?
All that matters is happiness, happiness is in health.
Try to see the point of all of this, instead of the many intricacies that really can't be worked out the same for everyone.
We are a lllllll so artificially different.
Sure, in the perfect world you can treat us all the same.
I believe that 100%
But this world is nowhere close, time to improvise right?
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how can you only take one bottle per winter but also state that you take a full syringe each time? is winter like a few weeks for you?
also whats up with all these supplement pushers on this website?
I dont take it every day. I just recommended her to take it every day to treat her depression. Thres no danger in taking too much since its a food and not a supplement. Also when I finish my bottle during the winter I dont usually get another one because I feel like im all set with the vitamin d for the rest of the winter. I usually take 2 syringes though.
as far as people pushing supplements suddenly it is very strange to me. I know we had problems with trolls in the past who would pretend to be legitimate members but would constantly try to sneak little pro vegan points. We caught a bunch of them. These people always try to fool us into thinking they are legitimate raw paleo dieters while trying to sneakily insert their poisons into our forum. These people have tried to undermine the integrity of the forum from the very beginning.
I hope this isnt whats happening now with the trolls having become more sophisticated since the people pushing the supplements do seem like genuine members to me for the most part.
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And if you have a problem assimilating vitaming d from the sun then just get some fermented cod liver oil and solve your problem with food rather than chemicals.
First of all in a natural world you would have never been in a car accident. Also you would have healed much better and faster than you did now in a natural world.
All the cavemen analyzed from thousands of years ago, what you will find is they all have a countless amount of broken bones that healed PERFECTLY. They would break bones constantly and heal them and be right back in the field hunting before too long.
and if you want to drink chemicals for the rest of your life go ahead but ill guarantee your liver is not going to be happy. Why bother with that stuff when there isnt anything in a pil that you need which you cant get in food. Not one thing.
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All the cavemen analyzed from thousands of years ago, what you will find is they all have a countless amount of broken bones that healed PERFECTLY. They would break bones constantly and heal them and be right back in the field hunting before too long.
How come you never post evidence for your claims? It's my understanding that at any point in the hunter gatherer era a broken ankle was a death sentence. Literally an easy meal for any animal coming along.
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How come you never post evidence for your claims? It's my understanding that at any point in the hunter gatherer era a broken ankle was a death sentence. Literally an easy meal for any animal coming along.
I dont really feel like doing hours of research for you but heres a good start for you.
http://magazine-archives.wustl.edu/winter00/trinkaus.html (http://magazine-archives.wustl.edu/winter00/trinkaus.html)
ill entertain you a bit more but im not going to continue finding citations for every one of my posts just to satisfy you everytime I want to prove a very rudimentary point such as this.
Please lear to use google so I dont have to keep wasting time on this.
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http://magazine-archives.wustl.edu/winter00/trinkaus.html (http://magazine-archives.wustl.edu/winter00/trinkaus.html)
Interesting article. Seems like when a neanderthal (or other HG) was injured, their tribe would help keep them safe while they recover.
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I would love someone to explain how it is that 'fermented' cod liver oil doesn't go rancid, with it's high pufa content. Hanging salmon in the fridge, I witness it's oils going off. I've tried it, and burn in the back of the throat was enough for me to 'believe' the oil wasn't only fermented (what ever that means for an oil/fat, but oxidized and damaged. My opinion there's a trade off, V-D for unhealthy oils. Some speculate the visible aging seen with peoples of the North eating high amounts of pufa fish and seal meat, is due to the highly oxidized fats. I'm open though, persuade me and my taste instinct that the burn in the throat is healthy.
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The bottle of green pastures fclo says on the label that its supposed to burn your throat. Not sure if its good or bad but I got used to it. Perhaps theres some oxidation but theres no mistaking the mood lift I get from FCLO, both immediately from the bacteria and gradually through the vitamin. I believe theres no denying what I feel from it.
Perhaps the fermentation fixes the oxidation somehow?
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I would love someone to explain how it is that 'fermented' cod liver oil doesn't go rancid, with it's high pufa content. Hanging salmon in the fridge, I witness it's oils going off. I've tried it, and burn in the back of the throat was enough for me to 'believe' the oil wasn't only fermented (what ever that means for an oil/fat, but oxidized and damaged. My opinion there's a trade off, V-D for unhealthy oils. Some speculate the visible aging seen with peoples of the North eating high amounts of pufa fish and seal meat, is due to the highly oxidized fats. I'm open though, persuade me and my taste instinct that the burn in the throat is healthy.
I do no fish oils... I rather eat fish. It is always better to eat the whole package. That said, I read somewhere (sorry I have no time to look for the place/link now..) that the high Iodine content in seafoods protects the body from negative reactions of any PUFA in it. Iodine is way stronger anti oxidant as vitamin C, BTW. I do not think there are any iodine left in extracted fish oil?
As long as I eat my fish raw, even if it was a few days in my fridge.. I am not concerned. Because there are all the stuff my body needs to deal with rancid PUFAs in that seafood. I do would be concerned eating any fish oil though. Not only is there so many things missing... but I also think it might make the fatty acid profile screwed... in the long run.
It might give a false "safe feeling" being able to take the fish oil and leave out the real seafood - what would make one miss out all the other components we so need, like zinc, selenium, iodine, magnesium..... that seafood is full of.
Sure, if no access to fish, it still might be a good idea, better than nothing. IDK for sure. But I would choose real seafood over oils ANY time. I would just not choose a place to live where no seafood available, that important it is to me.
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svrn,
I do not doubt you feel good from CLO if you are depleted in the fatty acids you get from it. I still would never continue the use, but just take it maybe a short time for emergency and then switch to real seafoods. Any prolonged use of fish oils can not be good. From all the research I have done.
Take it as a sign that your body is severely depleted of those fatty acids, and start changing your diet instead!
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I only take it in the winter for vitamin d but you are right, its probably not good to take regularly compared to eating fish. I view the fclo as a high meat type thing as well, its a great probiotic.
But fish is definitly superior unless you really need a huge dose of vitamin d.
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Hmmm.. I would not say refined fish oils are anything close to high meat at all..lol but each to he's own. ;)
If you suffer from low vitamin D.. you need to tan more in summer. Make it your 1.st priority, always when you can. I do that, and I never take any vit. D extra. Real sun is so much better. I do think it is normal to get a bit low in vitamin D in winter too. It is seasonal. I believe in the rhythms of the nature very strongly... I believe they are all there for a reason, only the messed up human being have started to create her own rhythms.. and that can only end sad, like it uses to do when we are messing up with nature.
Day / night, winter / summer, warm / cold.. all those are there and they are good. Also to eat a keto diet in winter is very important if living in places that have no growing season then.
If we mess up with those rhythms it might be we think we need extra vit. D.. and other things that are actually very unnatural... to feel good.
PS. It is not only vitamin D that the sun gives us.. there are so many others things.. the sun really is magic! Here goes the same rule like the fish oils. We can make us feel "safe" eating the vitamin thinking we can go with less sunshine.. but oh no.. how dangerous a thought that is. The sun should better have a very high priority in our lives... :)
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You are right about everything.
Its also interesting how now I can stay inthe hottest sun as long as I went and never get burnt, I feel incredible after actually.
Before I went raw I used to get burned in the slightest sun and I would be red all over.
Now Im still just as white as I ever was (im actually pinker now at all times sun or no sun) but theres is never any burning I may only get a tan for a bit but I still dont hold one for very very long.
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Bump
What's the update? How ya holding up?
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You are right about everything.
Its also interesting how now I can stay inthe hottest sun as long as I went and never get burnt, I feel incredible after actually.
Before I went raw I used to get burned in the slightest sun and I would be red all over.
Now Im still just as white as I ever was (im actually pinker now at all times sun or no sun) but theres is never any burning I may only get a tan for a bit but I still dont hold one for very very long.
That excites me. I knew there was something just wrong about how easily us humans burned in the sun.
How would we survive before sunscreen? I hate sunscreen.
I knew it was wrong. I hope I was right
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Green Pastures claims their cod liver oil is not at all refined and raw cod liver oil is a traditional Eskimo and Scandinavian medicinal food.
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i believe those things its says are true yet they still do not change ingers valid points on the oil.
raw fish is probably superior.
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I don't see high meat and CLO as a mutually exclusive either-or and the Eskimos apparently didn't either, and those who are still eating traditional foods apparently still don't. Despite eating high meat, they nonetheless thought that Leche liver oil and seal oil that were produced via raw fermentation were additionally healing for them. So the gist of both Inger's and my points can be right at the same time in at least some sense.
Of course, it depends on the individual's needs. Of all the horror of horrors from a Paleo and Instincto perspective, in my case, pyroluria therapy seems to be working remarkably well, for example, and it is recommended in the program to avoid omega 3 oils and to supplement with Paleo-hated omega 6 fats, so I'm putting aside yummy CLO and wild tuna and salmon for now and starting to eat leaner white fish that I don't care much for the taste of and I'm doing it not because of some fear of fish oil oxidants (after all, omega 6 oil is supposed to be even worse according to just about any Paleo or Instincto expert), but because it's currently working for me.
The latest improvement on this regimen is that my day vision also seems to be improving, along with my night vision. I am now able to read this text on the PC with an old weaker eyeglass prescription for the first time in years after about a week on an only partial application of the pyroluria therapy. Despite my going in the opposite direction, I still don't see a particular reason to doubt the Eskimo's valuing of leche and seal oil, except for the question raised by some observer reports that they aged faster than avg., though that doesn't seem to be solidly established.
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Bump
Poncho what is your diet like nowadays? Supplements? Sleep patterns? Exercise? Etc.
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Bump
Poncho what is your diet like nowadays? Supplements? Sleep patterns? Exercise? Etc.
I eat a good variety of foods now!
Its great.
I eat all organic, all raw, but a real variety now.
Although I have yet to overcome my stomach issues, I am really progressing.
My face looks healthy, my skin is so soft, I feel entirely sane again.
I am very excited, I even went to a concert last weekend and stood for 5 hours. (Very impressive for me, haha)
Things are looking up
Unfortunately, I think I still have a long road ahead of me.
The results I am seeing are motivation enough.
See, I don't care how hard it is, how long it'll take, how painful it will be, I just want to know that someday I will be good again.
I believe I'm well on my way.
100% raw paleo + raw goat's dairy is the way to go, for me.