Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => Health => Topic started by: favetelinguis on October 22, 2013, 11:55:00 pm
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So i have been eating a diet of:
Egg yolk
Beef fat
Bone marrow (lots of it)
Butter
Fish
Moose
Beef
I have been eating this for about 50 days and i do feel fine in general, im not feeling my general health getting better but also no ill effects. However i have been having discomfort on and off in my kidneys, mostly when i have a backpack on my back and only about once a week. However yesterday when i passed water the urine was extremely cloudy and in the end something else came out that looked like foam sort of and was a mix between white and brown and i could feel a burning in my penis for some time after. Could this be a sigh that my kidneys are starting to get destroyed due to nutrient deficiency like vitamin C or some minerals im low in? I eat about 400g of meat so no extreme amounts of protein. But im very low on lots of minerals.
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I would add some carbs back in for a few days, in the form of liver or berries, and see if that helps.
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make pine needle tea.
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So i have been eating a diet of:
Egg yolk
Beef fat
Bone marrow (lots of it)
Butter
Fish
Moose
Beef
I have been eating this for about 50 days and i do feel fine in general, im not feeling my general health getting better but also no ill effects. However i have been having discomfort on and off in my kidneys, mostly when i have a backpack on my back and only about once a week. However yesterday when i passed water the urine was extremely cloudy and in the end something else came out that looked like foam sort of and was a mix between white and brown and i could feel a burning in my penis for some time after. Could this be a sigh that my kidneys are starting to get destroyed due to nutrient deficiency like vitamin C or some minerals im low in? I eat about 400g of meet so no extreme amounts of protein. But im very low on lots of minerals.
I'm not sure what could be causing the symptoms you describe, but I think organ meats would definitely be a healthy addition to your diet; they are nutritional power houses. Liver and kidney are also good sources of vit C by the way.
Any particular reason why you consume butter, seeing as you have plenty of alternative sources of non-dairy animal fats?
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are you eating sugars with fats? With me I believe what evidences is glycation,, sugars sticking to fats...
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Another thing that stands out is your low meat intake, considering you eat no plant foods. Unless you eat a lot of egg yolks your percentage of calories from protein must be pretty low for Paleo standards, and therefore your calorie intake from fat extremely high.
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I newer do good with organ meat. Think oxylates is a lifelong problem with me. Also the high copper content might be aggregating some candida i have read... Always feel bad a few days when eating liver or kidney heart is ok. Butter i eat since i find it to be a superior fat source. Makes me warm and i feel great from it.
How dou you add fruit to this diet? Would you eat fruit as first thing in the morning before any fats?
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How long has it been since you've fasted for an extended period? My instinct would be to stop eating for a few days and let my digestive system rest and clean itself out, then ease back into eating slowly. I would also couple this with an elimination diet of sorts, easing back into eating while leaving out dairy for a few weeks and then adding it back in to see what the effect is. For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of zero carb or low carb, so the fact you're trying to do that might in itself be part of your problem.
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Unless you eat a lot of egg yolks your percentage of calories from protein must be pretty low for Paleo standards, and therefore your calorie intake from fat extremely high.
Allow me to correct myself.... there's a lot more calories from fat than from protein in egg yolks, so your calorie intake from protein as a percentage of total calorie intake is pretty low, and will be even lower the more egg yolks you eat.
I would also couple this with an elimination diet of sorts, easing back into eating while leaving out dairy for a few weeks and then adding it back in to see what the effect is.
Probably worth doing this with eggs as well; they are a common problem food.
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Probably worth doing this with eggs as well; they are a common problem food.
Yes, I would agree. It's very challenging to get high quality eggs on the commercial market, so it's likely what you're eating is very low quality and you'd benefit from cutting back.
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Do a 1 day water fast with spring water and see how that feels. If you live in a clean area outside the city, you may do 3 days spring water fasting.
Do your research on water fasting for more details.
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When I tried ZC I stopped because of similar issues that I thought was related to kidneys. I later got a blood test and found out my kidneys were in optimal condition. I then re checked my symptoms online and found it was related to gallbladder. Kidney trouble is usually associated with lower back while gallbladder is more related to middle shoulder pain As well as neck pain. Just something to think about.
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I newer do good with organ meat. Think oxylates is a lifelong problem with me. Also the high copper content might be aggregating some candida i have read... Always feel bad a few days when eating liver or kidney heart is ok. Butter i eat since i find it to be a superior fat source. Makes me warm and i feel great from it.
How dou you add fruit to this diet? Would you eat fruit as first thing in the morning before any fats?
I have tried to find the answer to this question through many days of experimenting and as far as I can tell I do better with carbs later in the day rather than early. I feel like carbs inhibit fat absorption therefore I try to eat my carbs after the majority of my fat has already been consumed. Although I would be interested to know your experience if you do start eating more carbs.
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You didn't give us much detail on what your diet is like. You mentioned what you're eating, but you only mentioned the amount of actual meat you're eating. But you didn't mention how much fat you're getting. How much beef fat do you eat and how many egg yolks?
So i have been eating a diet of:
Egg yolk
Beef fat
Bone marrow (lots of it)
Butter
Fish
Moose
Beef
I eat about 400g of meat so no extreme amounts of protein. But im very low on lots of minerals.
How much fat exactly are you eating? Do you drink anything? Do you drink water? How much water do you drink? I know you said you eat moose and beef, but do you eat organs?
I really feel like you didn't give enough detail.
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Magnesium deficiency? The foods you listed, with the exception of fish as being a moderate source, pretty much have none. Although I don't know the mineral contents of bone marrow. It could have a lot of mag in it.
Or salt deficiency? A study I read awhile back stated (for them to even do the study properly) that a decent amount of salt needed to be added to low-carb diets, or it caused potassium deficiency I believe?
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So i have been eating a diet of:
Egg yolk
Beef fat
Bone marrow (lots of it)
Butter
Fish
Moose
Beef
I have been eating this for about 50 days and i do feel fine in general, im not feeling my general health getting better but also no ill effects. However i have been having discomfort on and off in my kidneys, mostly when i have a backpack on my back and only about once a week. However yesterday when i passed water the urine was extremely cloudy and in the end something else came out that looked like foam sort of and was a mix between white and brown and i could feel a burning in my penis for some time after. Could this be a sigh that my kidneys are starting to get destroyed due to nutrient deficiency like vitamin C or some minerals im low in? I eat about 400g of meat so no extreme amounts of protein. But im very low on lots of minerals.
Are you drinking lots of good spring water? Many get dehydrated when they start a keto diet.. very common issue. Looks your kidneys are not too happy -\. Try to avoid EMFs, be more outside earthing and go early to bed, avoid fake lights. And do not forget the spring water. No chlorinated/fluoridated tap water.
I eat way more protein than you and my kidneys are fine... but you might need to eat a higher fat diet maybe because your environment or the state of your body. I would surely change something if I had such issues. Can you get wild picked berries? Those are the only thing I would suggest for vit. C they also have almost no carbs but very healing. You could eat them for dessert after your meat or fish meal. I never get digestion issues if I do that, but I eat only wild stuff, like lingonberries etc.
Also.. are your eggs pastured and safe source? In winter even pastured eggs are not good if you live in a colder climate. hens do not lay eggs in winter if they do not get special feed, we have pasture hens and the organic feed I buy them that they lay eggs in the colder months (for my parents) are horrible. Just wheat, soy, pea protein and veggie oils... -[
Try more seafood too, as much as you can. oysters are always my N1 healing food. Lots of bioavailable magnesium.
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Both sodium and chloride are important for keeping the kidneys in shape (and the body hydrated) to clear toxins. During the adaption phase of the low carb diet the body may initially need extra of both as it is getting used to the decreased potassium intake. You should make sure you are getting enough of both minerals. I would gradually increase your intake of both until you feel well. Be sure to drink enough water as well.
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I agree with drinking more water, as Inger said. Anyone who is doing zero carb, or just very low-carb, needs to drink a LOT of water. Lex found this out the hard way, by getting very painful kidney stones.
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Regarding potassium; I would not consider animal foods (meats, including organ meats) as poor sources of potassium.
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I will be writing a longer reply once i have more time sorry for that. As for water, i can not get a hold of any fresh spring water since i live in a big city, i do only drink good bottle water but when i drink pure water my body can not absorb it, it just stands in my intestines. What i need is to put in a few grains of salt in the water then it seems to get absorbed.
What else are you guys putting in the water since i guess you are not drinking pure water?
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Do you live above the earth, if, like in a tower house - in what stock....?
I do salt water too almost every day, it is fine as long as it is with un-threatened clean spring water. Pellegrino is ok too. Try to use glass bottles.
I make myself seaweed water often. I just put dried raw seaweeds in well water and drink the water throughout the day, add some more water to it and repeat. In the end (mostly next day) I just mix the soft seaweeds and water to a smoothie and drink it too. Delish!
I do drink a lot of pure, ice cold water too.
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So i went to the hospital for my condition to do some test, the only test that amazed to doctors what the amount of ketones, i had a +5 on there scale which is higher then they ever seen, usually it is no more then +3 :) Also i did test a bit low in potassium but nothing to worry about. So about 3 days after the hospital my urine went back to normal and i have felt absolutely no discomfort from my kidneys since then. It might have been an oxylate dump from my kidneys or baby my kidneys adapting to a lower amount of potassium i will never know.
It has always been my understanding that eating all your calories from fat and not to overdo the protein intake is the way to go on carnivore diet? But still lots of people here seems puzzled by my high fat intake?
From today i have started to eat 50-100g of frozen wild cranberry and blueberries. Not sure what they will do since they do not contribute to calories but at lease my stomach get some small amount of fiber to work with, the bad thing is that im introducing oxylates again but lets wait and see what happens.
Thanks for all the responses in the thread.
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I've been at 250g Fat / 70g Protein daily for quite sometime.
I supplement with 4-5 teaspoons of sea salt per day to keep my body functioning optimally.
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I've been at 250g Fat / 70g Protein daily for quite sometime.
I supplement with 4-5 teaspoons of sea salt per day to keep my body functioning optimally.
Wow that's 88% fat, 12% protein. I thought you had a little more protein than that from what I remembered. Hows your anaerobic lifting performance? Have you ever had blood ketones tested?
I've been wanting to try this more. It seems like when I control my lean meat and fat separately I lean towards higher fat. What's your lean mass?
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Wow that's 88% fat, 12% protein. I thought you had a little more protein than that from what I remembered. Hows your anaerobic lifting performance? Have you ever had blood ketones tested?
I've been wanting to try this more. It seems like when I control my lean meat and fat separately I lean towards higher fat. What's your lean mass?
I do fine with 70 grams and probably could even go a bit lower. I don't lift weights but I am into calisthenics as well as resistance type exercises and my performance is excellent!
I have never had my blood ketones tested.
I'm 5'10 165 Lbs. I'd say I'm around 10% Body Fat.
Something I've learned a long the way to help me find the ratio sweet spot (to stay fat adapted) is to always add an extra 5% to the total calories received from protein when I buy my ground beef. So, if the label says 65% Lean - i'll calculate it at 70%.
I'll also consider the amount of salt I need per day to be directly correlated to wether or not I am getting too much protein. So, based on my knowledge - the more salt I need per day, the better. If I need less salt, then most likely I am retaining water and some protein is being used as glucose. This is usually justifiable on the scale.
How do I know I need less salt because I'm getting too much protein?
Well, I'll get headaches shortly after supplementing my salt.
The opposite will happen when I am at the sweet spot. I'll tend to feel a little sluggish and may get headaches when I don't have enough salt and will feel better usually instantly when supplementing it.
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Im 73inches 144lb and i do not eat any salt almost since i tried to to increase salt and got total fatigue. I could not get out of bed almost. This was salt from cheese. Im trying to gain wight by lifting weights.
My main problem is that im having this white coating on my thong no mater what i eat, it dont get better and it dont get worse. Also im never hungry or thirsty and that makes it hard for me knowing how much i should eat. I usually start to burping after i eat any crabs and when i swallow it feels like air is coming up hindering me from swallowing. I try to eat two big meals a day one in the morning and one in the night. Have tried one meal a day but that got me way to weak.
What i eat is usual (for one meal), 200g lean meat (fish, beef, moose, deer, mutton) and 200g of bone marrow, or beef fat OR 120g butter. I try to get about 2000kcal from fat and 500kcal from meet. Most often i can not eat this much.
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Im 73inches 144lb and i do not eat any salt almost since i tried to to increase salt and got total fatigue. I could not get out of bed almost. This was salt from cheese. Im trying to gain wight by lifting weights.
My main problem is that im having this white coating on my thong no mater what i eat, it dont get better and it dont get worse. Also im never hungry or thirsty and that makes it hard for me knowing how much i should eat. I usually start to burping after i eat any crabs and when i swallow it feels like air is coming up hindering me from swallowing. I try to eat two big meals a day one in the morning and one in the night. Have tried one meal a day but that got me way to weak.
What i eat is usual (for one meal), 200g lean meat (fish, beef, moose, deer, mutton) and 200g of bone marrow, or beef fat OR 120g butter. I try to get about 2000kcal from fat and 500kcal from meet. Most often i can not eat this much.
Have you tried completely cutting dairy( including butter)? I wouldn't recommend getting extra salt from cheese, rather sea salt if you could. Dairy can cause lots of problems.
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I agree about the cheese and getting your salt from it. Try no cheese, and getting celtic sea salt. Also I may have mentioned before, i'd try smaller meals, eating fat first, waiting a little while if you like, and then eating the meat. That's what I try to do. It helps me not over eat. Mixing fat with meat prevents you from really knowing how much you need at that meal. Also wait till you're hungry before eating. There's been some good reports recently on Pau D'arco and boiling the bark for about twenty minutes, as related to lessening Candida, which it sounds like you have. But then it could simply be the cheese..
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Cheese i have quit some time ago and butter is out now as well. However as soon as i started to eat the berries this morning i get more eye floaters and i started to burp more often.
Think i will try smaller meals over the weekend. Have never done that only large :)
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I do fine with 70 grams and probably could even go a bit lower. I don't lift weights but I am into calisthenics as well as resistance type exercises and my performance is excellent!
I have never had my blood ketones tested.
I'm 5'10 165 Lbs. I'd say I'm around 10% Body Fat.
Something I've learned a long the way to help me find the ratio sweet spot (to stay fat adapted) is to always add an extra 5% to the total calories received from protein when I buy my ground beef. So, if the label says 65% Lean - i'll calculate it at 70%.
I'll also consider the amount of salt I need per day to be directly correlated to wether or not I am getting too much protein. So, based on my knowledge - the more salt I need per day, the better. If I need less salt, then most likely I am retaining water and some protein is being used as glucose. This is usually justifiable on the scale.
How do I know I need less salt because I'm getting too much protein?
Well, I'll get headaches shortly after supplementing my salt.
The opposite will happen when I am at the sweet spot. I'll tend to feel a little sluggish and may get headaches when I don't have enough salt and will feel better usually instantly when supplementing it.
So you believe that if more than about 12% of calorie intake is from protein that you will no longer be "fat adapted"? You say that if you have too much protein that you get a head ache when supplementing with salt. If, instead, you do not supplement with salt, or less salt, in order to avoid the head aches, how do you feel? Sick in some other way?
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So you believe that if more than about 12% of calorie intake is from protein that you will no longer be "fat adapted"?
It seems to be around that mark in my personal experience. My body seems to use fat most efficiently at this intake (meaning I feel overall at my best mentally and physically). I wouldn't say I'd no longer be fat adapted as a lot of us are somewhat fat adapted but I don't think I'd be completely fat adapted. My body will most likely be using some protein as a source of glucose as I notice I do gain some water weight (retain salt) if I get up to around 75g protein.
You say that if you have too much protein that you get a head ache when supplementing with salt. If, instead, you do not supplement with salt, or less salt, in order to avoid the head aches, how do you feel?
If I eat more protein and avoid the extra salt I use when I eat less protein I find myself nauseous a lot of the time. My energy also isn't as consistent and I have bouts of weakness. Exercising is much harder as I tend to run out of 'fuel'. When I keep my protein at low levels I can exercise for hours on end if I wanted to. Also, I don't have that mental 'balanced' feeling when my protein intake is above this level. I also tend to lean toward being constipated when upping protein even slightly above 70g. I would attribute most of this to being stuck in 'low carb limbo'. In other words, the body trying to adapt to using fat as fuel after the protein is used up.
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24isours, very useful information! Thank you so much for sharing. Sounds like the perfect diet :)
I have upped my fat a lot last days, I eat just plain GF beef fat and I can eat so much.... I am going to try your WOE and add even more sea salt to my well water. Wow... this is going to be a very cheap WOE too... :)
I am thinking of using only seafood and grass fed organs for my protein. I have so many lamb hearts, kidneys and livers in my fridge right now!
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24isours, very useful information! Thank you so much for sharing. Sounds like the perfect diet :)
I have upped my fat a lot last days, I eat just plain GF beef fat and I can eat so much.... I am going to try your WOE and add even more sea salt to my well water. Wow... this is going to be a very cheap WOE too... :)
I am thinking of using only seafood and grass fed organs for my protein. I have so many lamb hearts, kidneys and livers in my fridge right now!
Glad to share! Yes, it is cheap but effective :) Great, good luck! Keep us updated. I'll be lurking around, so if I could be of any help just ask!
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So I have change the proportions on how i eat now and it has had very good results. I have cut down on fat since i think i was overdoing that. Now i eat about 800g of muscle meat a day and around 200g of a mixture of bonmarrow and egg yolk. I also do some topical magnesium and add some salt to my water. The only thing im still not eating much is is calsium but not sure if i need any :)
My only concern is that the muscle meat are stressing my adreanals and this is why i feel so good, i know organ meat has a less stessful protein composition then muscle meat but not sure it it matters in reality?