Paleo Diet: Raw Paleo Diet and Lifestyle Forum
Raw Paleo Diet Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: One truth on October 31, 2013, 10:37:00 am
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Hello friends.
I'm a new guy here. I am also new to Paleolithic eating... Sort of.
I was a vegetarian that ate an abundance of eggs, fruits, seeds and nuts and veggies.
I recently started eating meat, good meat.
I purchased some grass fed, hormone free, antibiotic free flank steak yesterday. I cut it and had an uncooked, raw piece last night. Then, I kept it in the plastic bag, the original brown butcher bag and another brown grocery bag and put it in the fridge. It was in there over night. Today, I had a few more pieces. BUT, I didn't feel like I should keep it in the fridge for another night.
My questions are: after cutting the meat, can I keep cutting off raw pieces? The person at the market told me that I could eat that raw, as oppose to ground beef, because once beef is ground, the insides are exposed.
Also, how long can I store meat in the fridge and keep cutting off little raw pieces?
If I put it in the freezer, what is the best way to defrost it and keep its nutrients?
I have had great results, a lot of energy. It would be ideal if I could keep this in the fridge for a few days, but my gut says it may not be safe.
Thank you for any help.
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Do not store your meat in plastic. Leave it exposed to oxygen. Also be certain it is 100% grass fed. They can legally say "grassfed" if it was fed grass at any point in its life, even if it was grain finished.
But avoid plastic. Use glass or ceramic.
I notice the taste gets better if it was healthy, but worse if it was unhealthy as it ages. First signs show up easily after 4 days. There is no issue with letting your meat age as long as it gets air.
And there are no risks with ground beef as long as your source is healthy.
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Good advice from Dr D.
That said, I have myself been eating all kind of raw meats... plastic wrapped... old... ground meats, even grain fed etc. without issues. But it is good to be careful in the beginning, and always aim for the best! I use to store my meats on a wooden plate in the fridge, open. or in a glass bowl. The thing you need to be concerned about is Botulism (you can google it and check the symptoms then you will know, knowledge is always good for safety). It can kill you. But that becomes dangerous only when no oxygen present, that is why you need to be careful with plastic wrapped meats. I have taken the risk many times because I had no other food source than vacuumed stored meat, and I never got sick so far, but it is dangerous and I would never recommend it for others.
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Here is how meat can be kept in a fridge. Large chunks will remain tender inside for 2 months or even longer. Small pieces will dry up and get hard sooner.
An old fridge which doesn't automatically defrost is ideal. The last pic is an example of delicious result after about 2 1/2 months storage in a fridge having been spontaneously seeded with yeast from previous meat chunks.
I posted such pics several times.
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That is a very helpful set of pictures. It is an example I will try to emulate.
Many thanks.
Johan
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@ Iguana
What temperature do you keep it at? Also do you/can you adjust the humidity level?
I am on the look out for a fridge so I can keep my meet this way. I am getting tired of dealing with jars.
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I keep my meat the way that iguana keeps his. I hang beef, lamb, and fish, including liver, heart, and other organs. People used this method of meat storage for ages. For example, my husband's family hung autumn-slaughtered animal quarters in the attic all winter and cut off what they needed to eat. Another way is to cut strips to hang and dry (not seasoned like jerky) in the air or in the fridge. I can still see these in ethnic butcher shops, where the dried strips are for sale.
If your source of ground beef is good, you can make patties or meatballs and let them dry for a day or three on a plate. I keep mine in the refrigerator, turning the meat so that the plate side does not stay moist.
For years, I was afraid of microbes on raw meat. Based on what I have learned here, I have not gotten sick ever from eating RPD.
Aged meat has a taste and texture that is very complex. I have grown to favor it.
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Johan, you're welcome.
I try to keep the temperature between +2° C and +6° C. I just don't want it to freeze. The fridge in the above pictures automatically defrosted, which wasn't ideal because it becomes too humid.
Below are pics of the small fridge I use for my meat in my new home. It doesn't automatically defrost and it should be much better. I just loaded it 3 days ago with a cock and beef I brought back from friends in France.
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@ Iguana
You like your mini fridge? It doesnt dry the meat out too much? I use a mini fridge and it seemed to dry my meat out to much. Although I imagine if I were to hang larger chunks inside then it would keep the inner parts more moist. Well I just ordered several meat hooks and found a large fridge. So I should be set up with hanging my meat in a few weeks. Im excited.
I have usually just been setting my meat on dry racks in my closet and it works well. I found that after the meat has been aged in a jar for a few weeks and then dry aged in my closet I tend not to enjoy the taste as much as meat that has been entirely dry aged.
@Eveheart.
I also really enjoy making meatballs with ground beef and letting them dry age for a few days. Mmm delicious :)
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I have got 5 kg goulash (meat already cut into small pieces). It was sent to me in frozen state, but when I got it, it was totally thawed.
I cannot hang it while they are small pieces.
So, what to do?
Can I simply put it into ceramic bowl? It will take me about 3 weeks to eat 5 kg of meat. Is it safe to keep it so long in the fridge in a bowl?
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@ Iguana
You like your mini fridge? It doesnt dry the meat out too much? :)
I don't know yet because I just started to use it for meat. Yes, it's small and a bigger one would be fine but still I could put those big pieces inside. I prefer that the meat dries than getting too damp and bad. I usually have big chunks only, I took the small ones on the racks because they were already cut this way and I had no choice.
ICan I simply put it into ceramic bowl? It will take me about 3 weeks to eat 5 kg of meat. Is it safe to keep it so long in the fridge in a bowl?
I don't think so: it'll get bad.
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I don't think so: it'll get bad.
Any alternative?
I also have a wooden plate. Should I make HOLES in it and place the goulash on this wooden plate?
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You could also flip it every couple days. I do that sometimes. Although if you need it for 3 weeks I think I would just keep it in a jar and air it out every day.
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I have got 5 kg goulash (meat already cut into small pieces). It was sent to me in frozen state, but when I got it, it was totally thawed.
I cannot hang it while they are small pieces.
So, what to do?
Can I simply put it into ceramic bowl? It will take me about 3 weeks to eat 5 kg of meat. Is it safe to keep it so long in the fridge in a bowl?
I use stainless steel skewers (the kind that is sold for shish-kabob) to string small pieces to hang in the fridge. I suspend each end of the skewer from the refrigerator rack with s-hooks. My small pieces are probably larger than your goulash pieces, so if the pieces are too small, try making a makeshift rack with bamboo skewers. Experimentation is a good thing - you'll need to find out how much dryness you prefer. If dried meat appeals to you, try about a kg sliced into bite-sized thinness and make some unseasoned jerky. Also, instead of a bowl, I'd use a plate and flip the pieces over every day. To prevent too much dryness, put a loose cover over the meat to slow down evaporation, but let your taste be your guide when it comes to dryness.
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Can I simply put it into ceramic bowl? It will take me about 3 weeks to eat 5 kg of meat. Is it safe to keep it so long in the fridge in a bowl?
Yes it is safe, but it will start turning into high meat.
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I suspect we need someone to write a meat-storage thread to post permanently.
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Thanks to all of you.
Good suggestion Tyler. Permanent thread about meat storage is a must ... also fat to Protein ration thread too (in my opinion).
Thanks to paper-clip and Haai. It gives me lot of courage to go this way and now I am sure I am not going to die.
Eveheart! always loved your imagination and how you deal with the challenges.
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How your mini fridge working out so far Iguana? Do find it dries it out more or less then the large fridge?
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Hi,
yes, great thread.
I'd like to hear your experiences and opinions regarding the following.
Around three weeks ago I had purchased about two kg boneless beef from Brazil.
It was wrapped in plastic. On the tag it said that it was produced on the 12th of December. And then I just saw the date of April 2014 for keeping it. Just today when I unwrapped it did I see the further information "when stored at 0C". But I had stored int in the fridge at the usual temperature, I don't know, 6 or 8C.
I should have taken it out immediately three weeks ago and put it on a plate. I had good experiences with that before, storing the meat for weeks with no problem.
But because my fridge was retty full I didn't do it.
Do you think the meat is still ok? It smelled a bit when I opened the package but not much after and I think the smell is often there even when opened early on.
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How your mini fridge working out so far Iguana? Do find it dries it out more or less then the large fridge?
Sorry, I forgot to answer! It dries the meat rather quickly, because it doesn't automatically defrost. I brought about 15 kg of donkey meat when I came back from France on January 26th and it's already too hard on the surface, I need a good knife to cut that hard layer into small pieces.
Odin, yes, you should have unpacked this meat immediately and hung it. You can still try to do it now and when the smell and taste suit you, perhaps after a few days in a good fridge, it should be alright. Otherwise you can try to air it behind a fan. Probably grain finished, though.
.
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Thanks for your reply, Iguana.
I'll do that.
Your comment on grain-finished is interesting.
I was wondering about that. I had initially heard that beef from South America like Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay is always grass-fed, grass-finished, since it doesn't make economic sense to them to feed grains/beans with all these vast grass areas. but now I've heard recently that this is not really the case, that they do feed grains/beans. Does anyone have detailed info on this?
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There’s a discussion about the quality of South American beef (Uruguay) here:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/organic-100-grass-fed-beef-from-uruguay/msg116669/?topicseen#msg116669 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/organic-100-grass-fed-beef-from-uruguay/msg116669/?topicseen#msg116669)
And a New York Times article about meat from Uruguay and Argentina is quoted here:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/uruguayan-beef-from-grass-fed-cattle/msg115982/?topicseen#msg115982 (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/uruguayan-beef-from-grass-fed-cattle/msg115982/?topicseen#msg115982)
Unfortunately, I have no specific info about beef from Brazil but I guess it’s about the same as from Argentina.
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Thanks for the links, Iguana.
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Regarding the quality of beef from South America. I recently talked to an employee of a shop here that imports high quality beef from all over the world.
He told me that in the past few years beef from Argentine has now become 80% not pure grass-fed any more, i.e. they're using soy beans and grains for feeding. Apparently on grass it takes two years for a cow to grow, with soy beans etc. that time comes down to eight months.
He didn't know the percentage for Brazil, but said it is also become rarer there.
The only places seem to be Uruguay, New Zealand and Ireland.
If you have other/related information please share.
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I too have seen documentaries where Brazil is cutting down rain forests to grow soy.. not sure if it's for their own cattle or for the world markets.
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After my bad experience with leaving meat packed in plastic in the fridge too long I was careful to take the meat out of the wrapping and put it on a plate in the fridge.
I've eaten a few slices of it but it's been there for probably six, seven weeks now.
When I recently wanted to cut off a bit I saw that the meat was quite dried up (which I don't regard as a problem) but the bottom part was moist as I had forgotten to change plates and turn the meat.
Do you think I can just let that dry and it will be ok?
Or should I cut that part off?
Or do I have to discard the whole piece?
And also similarly regarding oysters- how long can they be kept in the fridge?
I've had some oysters in the fridge for a week and ate them with no problem.
But recently I had some after five days. They were quite dried up. They didn't smell weirdly, so I ate them. The taste was not unusual either. But I got sick two days later, but that might have been for a different reason.
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My experience is that aged meat is fine, whether dry or wet, though wet aged meat is the only one giving me the special benefits of high-meat.
I used to keep raw oysters for up to 10 days in the fridge. Bad idea, as they die after a few days and every day one leaves them in the fridge, they start shrinking in size. Far better to eat the raw oysters within 2 days of buying them.
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...regarding oysters- how long can they be kept in the fridge?
Because they are alive but have no food to eat once harvested, oysters start living off their own flesh, hence the shriveling. You can see the shriveling along the gills when you open them - it looks like the gills have flattened against the inside shell. Commercially, they say that oysters are "okay" for up to two weeks under humid refrigeration as long as they don't die. That second week is not optimal. If you want them plump, I'd eat them in less than a week.
I can buy 60 oysters wholesale for $1 apiece, or get good fresh ones in seafood restaurants for about $1.50 each. I often pay the slightly higher price to avoid the shriveling, otherwise I split a wholesale order with family or friends. In other words, I don't eat shriveled oysters, and it has nothing to do with the possibility of getting sick. Plump oysters are so delicious.
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Thanks for your helpful replies.
The meat should still be ok then. Great. I'll finish it in the next days then.
Interesting info on the shrinking and shrivelling of the oysters. That's exactly what had happened with mine. The guy at the fish shop said that they will die after a few days in the fridge due to not enough oxygen, they'll basically choke.
But they didn't smell or taste weird, just shrivelled and dried. I agree the taste is much better within the first two days.
My sickness must have come from the other food then.
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Is it ok to dry-age meat in the regular fridge with other foods around? I'm worried it will get contaminated with mold or something. Should I get a separate meat-fridge? Also, can organ meats be dry-aged in the same way or should they be eaten fresh only?
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Is it ok to dry-age meat in the regular fridge with other foods around? I'm worried it will get contaminated with mold or something. Should I get a separate meat-fridge? Also, can organ meats be dry-aged in the same way or should they be eaten fresh only?
Imo it depends in the organ, i found beef tongue to be palatable fresh but aged very badly and even threw the aged part away, then i found that aged liver was ok but that it dry aged bad aswell, it became sticky. Then i found beef heart to age very well in everyway. So it might just be a matter of preference. I also tried it with ground beef and it aged well as long as it was FRESH ground beef, i tried with lean and it was good too and i tried fatty trim and i got terribly sick.
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I use one refrigerator. I hang all animal foods, but I don't actually "dry age" organ meats. It would be more accurate to say that I store them uncovered and hanging in the refrigerator so that they get air circulation. Organs often dry out faster than large muscles, so I decide when they are tastiest to my palate and eat them then.