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Messages - shaya1

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: October 20, 2016, 07:57:39 pm »
update number 6

so its been a little more than 2 months since my last update and  im still doing the high meat, the size of a marble,  2 and 3 times a day. Some have recommended against this, but the benefits have hugely outweighed the side effects. This has changed my life. Its changed my behavior, made life more enjoyable, made me more outgoing, more witty and i get more done, so i feel like im willing to deal with the side effects.

As for the side effects. Im starting to get  what i think are detox symptoms(at least i think theyre detox symptoms) Its been a while since i had the joint issues, but recently they are starting to come back(mostly shoulders and neck). Im starting to get slight feelings of catching  a cold  in the past 2 days. It only lasts a minute and then goes away. The sensitivity to light  after eating high meat comes slightly, but it doesnt seem as bad as it was when i first started. I seem to get a histamine reaction to high meat, which ive had allergies my whole life. When i first started i would sneeze quite a bit, but now im just getting sinus congestion.

i have found that if i take just high meat for my sense of well being, i dont get the kind of boost i do as when i combine it with homemade kefir. In fact i get kinda blah if i dont eat kefir sometime during the day. Ive noticed that if i eat just high meat, i wont have my normal bowel movement like i normally do. I think high meat, while it detox's, it can cause constipation in me and kefir helps negate that as well.


I plan on doing a liver flush either tonight or tomorrow, cause my neck and shoulder pain are getting pretty intense. I dont have intense liver pain like i did the first time, but i can feel some discomfort.

I dont want to sound redundant, but Ive mentioned in past posts, that i dont recommend taking high meat 2 and 3 times a day, everyday for everyone. If i hadnt combined it with liver flushing and homemade kefir, im not sure i would be able to continue, and possibly end up in the hospital getting my gallbladder removed if i didnt do the liver flushing.

Im going to post this and then come back with an update on how the liver flush went. Since ive started this, i think there have been about three liver flushes that ive done that were uneventful (i didnt pass any stones) and two that were. One of them i passed a MASSIVE amount of stones. Some were calcified, so they had been in there for years. Im hoping that this liver flush will get rid of this stiff neck and shoulder pains, or im in trouble if it doesnt.

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: August 13, 2016, 11:13:45 am »
thanks eveheart :)

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: August 13, 2016, 12:03:23 am »
eveheart, do you mind telling what your diet consists of?

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: August 12, 2016, 12:10:24 pm »
Quote from: eveheart on August 12, 2016, 11:19:08 am
FWIW, I spent YEARS eating "healthy" food like ezekiel bread and trying to detox as I kept poisoning my body with good grains. I came to this forum in my late 50s, unable to walk for more than a few feet at a time. It took me TWO DAYS of raw paleo eating to make a big transformation. Literally, I showed up at work on a Monday morning after eating raw paleo over the weekend and everybody noticed that I looked great!

Raw eating is not a "supplemental" thing for me now. If I stick to ancestral eating, I don't need to do extra "detox" protocols. My blood sugar and hemoglobin A1C are in the normal range, not diabetic as before. Severe arthritis in my shoulders, hands, feet still "shows up" on x-rays but I have no pain, even when I walk for over a mile. Various other blood tests are normal now. Periodontal disease is gone. My mood is stable. I haven't experienced binge-eating disorder symptoms for years. I never get gall-bladder pain, despite eating a ton of raw animal fat. No more heartburn and hiccups after meals.

I'm sorry if you didn't get the impression that this forum is about raw, unprocessed paleolithic foods. By referring to the paleolithic period, we are talking about a hunter-gatherer diet, what mankind ate before the dawn of agriculture (which brought grains and legumes into prominence).

I made a two-week commitment to raw paleo eating at first, and that was enough to convince me that I had found the solution to my ailments. I would suggest you give that a try, instead of trying to neutralize the poisons that you are eating.

So what does your diet look like? From morning to night?

also, the reason why i posted on this forum, is because i couldnt find any other forum that talked about eating high meat. I do eat raw beef as well. Do you have to be completely raw to post on here?

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: August 12, 2016, 12:04:44 pm »
Quote from: eveheart on August 12, 2016, 11:21:43 am
What's in your ezekiel bread? Wheat!

spouted wheat doesnt react in the body  the same way whole grain wheat does. Wheat destroys my joints, Ezekiel bread doesnt

i forgot to mention, in the hot summer days, i make natto instead of kefir

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: August 12, 2016, 10:02:04 am »
Quote from: cherimoya_kid on August 12, 2016, 09:58:33 am
Get off the grains. They are probably hurting more than helping. Substitute a little fruit and fat.


I tried the zero grain thing for a while and i found that i do best with a little bit. The only grains i eat are corn and rice, and they dont seem to bother me. Plus it adds a bit of resistant starch which seems to help me with my sleep as well.

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: August 12, 2016, 09:59:21 am »
Quote from: svrn on August 12, 2016, 06:18:57 am

That is way too much high meat. Im not surprised you are experincing such a large detox. It is not recommended to eat so much high meat.

Try eating it twice a week instead of 3 times a day.

i agree, and i dont recommend others doing the same thing. However i feel its doing some great things for me when coupled with liver flushing. I just had a friend that i graduated from high school with die a few months ago from a heart infection and thats what i think ive been experiencing with my heart pain. This has been the only thing that ive come across thats helped a lot with the pain and heart palps. I am experiencing some discomfort, but its not all bad. It gives me a boost of energy after i eat my meals when normally i feel super tired and unmotivated. Its helping with my depression. And when things get too uncomfortable, i know i can rely on a liver flush to clear all the stones out and then im good.

But yes, i wouldnt recommend others doing the same thing. Especially if they cant do a liver flush and they are loaded with gallstones.

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: August 12, 2016, 09:48:17 am »
Quote from: eveheart on August 12, 2016, 04:33:56 am
Shaya, what are you eating and drinking besides the high meat? I'm not asking for a meal-by-meal run-down, but a simple, raw diet can still have some items that are common triggers for symptoms that you describe.


one cup of coffee in the morning with a couple pieces of ezekiel toast with kerry gold butter and kippers  in the morning. Then i have tacos or something like that for lunch (no wheat) and then i try and fit some raw meat in there sometime throughout the day cause i have found raw meat really helps with my sleeping issues. During the cooler days i have homemade kefir. But right now its too hot in my house to culture it.......no ac


I dont do a whole lot of raw veggies cause they dont make me feel the greatest.

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: August 12, 2016, 01:51:44 am »
oh.......and another thing i forgot to mention. Ive been getting heart burn every day for the passed 3 days as well, which im not normally a heart burn person.

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: August 12, 2016, 01:34:50 am »
update number 5

So its been almost a month since my last update when i had to do a liver flush because of the extreme pain. So far, i havent had any extreme pain like i did but im feeling some pain in between the shoulder blades which is a sign of gallbladder issues and im still getting weird sensation in the liver area, but its not painful. The pain between the the shoulder blades started about 3 days ago, and each day its getting a little worse. Im going to go ahead and do a liver flush tonight and not let it get like it did last time, because that pain was unbearable.

I still am leaning towards that all this is a good thing. Because i dont have that extreme tightness around the liver area that ive had for a long time, and my heart is still doing a lot better. I forgot to mention in my prior post that i was having a lot of heart palpitations and i dont get those anymore. (sometimes you forget what you had when it goes away)

  I think that the bacteria somehow enables the liver to start functioning and move the old gallstones in the liver into the gallbladder. (a lot of gallstones are formed in the liver, there are photos of dissected livers with gallstones in the ducts). As i type this, im reminded of a study i came across where they did s study with  mice and put them in a sterile environment, after a while they began to have gallstone issues. So i really do think theres a link here.


I will continue to post my updates in case anybody is interested . Im taking (on average) a piece the size of a medium sized marble 3 times a day. I dunno if those exist, but in between a small and large marble

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: August 07, 2016, 12:01:45 am »
Quote from: svrn on August 06, 2016, 06:18:41 pm
high meat can trigger detox. Be happy this is happening.

I hope you are so lucky as to end up "catching" a cold.


this by far has been the most effective detox that ive tried. Im surprised that nobody else on this forum has gone through this. I havent had any super severe liver pains since i did my last liver flush, but i still do get sensations in that area and i continue to eat high meat everyday. Most days 3 times a day. One marble size piece

things that have cleared up for me since eating the high meat have been heart pains. I still get them ever once in a while but not severe and not very often. I think the heart pains were infection, cause exercise didnt make them worse, and at one time olive leaf would help them, but that stopped working.

When i would twist my waist, i would feel tight intercostal muscles (muscles between the ribs) on the right side. That is gone as well. Ive had that for years.

A side note. There would of been no way that i would of been able to continue with the high meat if i didnt do a liver flush. I would of ended up in the hospital. 

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 18, 2016, 06:45:57 am »
update number 4

so the other day i mentioned that i was getting pains between the shoulder blades and i was contemplating on doing a liver flush. I decided to put it off which was a horrible mistake. I just dont like doing them and like sabertooth said, theres a happy balance with cleansing. So the following morning, (which was early this morning), i woke up to  some of the most severe pain on my liver area and in between my shoulder blades that ive ever had in my life. Normally when you do a liver flush you do them at night, but this morning I had  to do an emergency flush cause i was in so much pain. Fast forward to 6pm, the pain is much much better and i passed a HUGE amount of stones, which im thrilled cause i was thinking that i might have a bad parasite issue or something from the high meat.

So my thoughts so far.

 I still think the bacteria in the high meat started moving things around in my liver which i think is a good thing. I guess i cant be for sure, but ive never had anything like this happen before, and ive been at this game for years and years trying to work on my health issues.

If anybody is reading this and is going through something similar, i dont think i would recommend going my route and take as much high meat as i was if you are getting reactions like i am. Tyler suggested good advice by saying that i probably should stop. If anybody went through what i went through today, im sure they would of went to the ER if they didnt know about liver flushing.


ps a little interesting thing that happened when i was in severe pain today, was i felt like i was catching a cold. It wasnt severe, and mind you, its summer here and nobody around me is sick. When i first started doing liver flushes years ago, this happened to me a few times. I felt like i was getting sick shortly after the flush for about a half a day. I think the debris in the liver can harbor some nasty things.

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 18, 2016, 06:22:02 am »
Quote from: sabertooth on July 18, 2016, 01:22:02 am
If you have been on olive leaf extract or have used other cleansing protocol then you are likely off balance in your gut flora, which can lead to a broad range of food intolerance and inability of the liver to cope with metabolic waste.
 

Im beginning to believe this. I was very hesitant to do another liver flush cause after doing more than 200, i was no better off in certain ways. Some ways it did help, but in other ways, i felt like i was getting worse. This may or may not have anything to do with liver flushing tho.

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 17, 2016, 02:35:18 am »
update number 3 continued.

I forgot to mention that my joint pain is gone that i was having in my shoulders and hip. I didnt notice any yesterday, and the day before it was a lot better but there subtly

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 17, 2016, 02:25:29 am »
thanks for the suggestions cherimoya_kid and sabertooth. I'll defiantly keep those ideas in mind

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 17, 2016, 02:16:17 am »
Quote from: goodsamaritan on July 14, 2016, 03:09:07 pm
Consider eating apples and doing some liver flushes.


update number 3.

 I woke up this morning with severe pain in between my shoulder blades. Knowing this is big sign that i need to do a liver flush, im going to take this advice anyway. I was hesitant to do another one cause the last couple of times i did one, i didnt pass any stones. But high meat is absolutely doing something in my liver. Could it be that the bacteria  is eating the dead crap in my liver (considering this type of bacteria favors dead flesh), and is allowing the liver metabolism to kick in and the stones are starting to move towards the gallbladder? (some gallstones are initially formed in the liver)  Im not sure and i probably should consider its a bad thing as well.

On a positive note, ive had angina off and on for probably 8 years, and its progressively been getting worse the last year. I have had a feeling that it was an infection of some sort cause exercise would make it feel better sometimes and when i would take olive leaf it would go away for a while. But then it would come back and then olive leaf didnt work anymore. I tried a bunch of other things, and nothing worked accept for recently i discovered coconut oil (which has antimicrobial properties), and i have been taking it daily for the passed month, cause i was getting the pain daily if i didnt take it. However i havent taken it for the past 5 days, and havent had any angina. It could be coincidence, but its another reason why i want to push through and continue taking the high meat

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 16, 2016, 07:37:28 am »
Quote from: TylerDurden on July 14, 2016, 05:56:28 pm
I am sorry, this is all intuitive, and based on personal experience and that of others on a RVAF diet. Also, the kind of bacteria can be utterly irrelevant. For example, Aajonus once pointed to a study that showed that c. 38% of american households contained the salmonella bacteria yet had no evidence of illnesses as a result. I still thin you should quit the "high-meat" experience for now at least....


Ok, thanks again for the help tyler. Im just taking it slow right now. There are benefits that i get from the high meat that i like, like more energy in the morning, so im slightly hesitant to give it up. The joint pain only comes when i take a little more than normal, but im still not convinced that its a bad thing. I still get liver pains slightly, but its not bad like it was. I know you are offering good advice however, and i appreciate that.......thanks :)

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 16, 2016, 07:28:58 am »
Quote from: goodsamaritan on July 14, 2016, 03:09:07 pm
Consider eating apples and doing some liver flushes.

thanks for the advice goodsamaritian. I would of given the liver flush advice as well. Ive done well over 200 of them. I know you probably think im exaggerating, but im not. I had a severe eating disorder and they helped tremendously (i did other things as well). They also helped my insomnia. Who would of ever thought that a clogged liver would manifest in that way. I expelled a ton of stones. Many were calcified, so im guessing they were in there for years.

As far as the apples, years ago i binged on apples and now i can really tolerate them very much.

anyway, youre spot on with the congested liver. I just think that for some reason the bile is congealing in the bile duct and the ducts in the liver for some reason, and it continues to do so. Im hoping that the bacteria will help correct this.

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 14, 2016, 03:02:03 pm »
Quote from: TylerDurden on July 13, 2016, 06:14:53 am
Even so, despite my own experience and my knowledge of others' , it is always possible that a rare  individual like you may have some form of intolerance towards "high-meat". Maybe not permanently,  maybe you will thrive on high-meat in 2 years time.....

Thanks Tyler. Im gonna try some higher amounts and see how it turns out. I know i have liver issues, cause i see a strong line running in my iris where the liver is, so im hoping that this bacteria is doing something good. The pain i have reminds me of the pain i got when i took some fresh black walnut hulls for parasites. About 8 years ago, i started playing around with dewormers. None of them worked for me. I spent a lot of money on them. So in the fall one year when black walnuts were dropping, i thought i would make my own. I took one dose and about 6 hours later, it felt like i had a stiff neck in my liver. I had it for a day or two, and then i decided to do a liver flush and it was gone the next day. This is sort of  what it feels like but not quite as severe. However, it does seem like the pain is subsiding again. At least today it was almost unnoticeable


Another question. Do you happen to know of what kind of bacteria is found in the later stages of high meat? I was thinking that it goes through quite a few different varieties of bacteria before it settles into the final flora. Id be interested in researching this bacteria

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 13, 2016, 05:37:40 am »
Quote from: TylerDurden on July 13, 2016, 04:35:52 am
I've been on RPD forums for many years and never(until now) come across any negative stories about "high-meat" consumption. Well, OK, a very few members reported not being able to sleep afterwards if they ate "high-meat" in the evening or at night, but that  was because they felt so wired/energetic after eating the "high-meat". Not all that negative, per se. And I somehow doubt that there is a conspiracy to silence RPDers who complain about high-meats!  ;)


This does NOT negate your experience. My own take on this is:- everyone is different, we all have different bodies, different genetics, different health-conditions, so it is wiser to depend on one's own intuition/common-sense in the end. The latter does not always work(for example, when I first started RVAF diets I went in big time for raw dairy, and I duly found out that I was allergic to the stuff- being allergic to a food often causes unnatural cravings for that very food. However, all in all, it is best to rely on one's own gut-feelings/symptoms. Unless you are desperate, I would strongly suggest you abstain from the high-meat for now and try other things. Who knows? Maybe you are an unusual RVAFer who cannot handle high-meat at all but positively thrives on raw, fresh, wildcaught seafood? Other possibilities exist:- maybe you can only handle "high-meat" in the form of raw, aged fish but cannot stand high-meat from land-mammals? Anything is possible and we are all varied individuals. For example, I only like the taste of "high-meat" in the form of raw aged heart  or tongue and cannot  stand the taste of other high-meats. I also find that my body cannot properly absorb raw liver  or raw suet(I soon afterwards get quasi-diarrhea from them). I also get nasty stomach-aches after eating raw coconut-oil, yet I have never found another RVAFer who claimed to have the same symptoms from the stuff.


thanks tyler. I'll defiantly try making high meat out of heart next time.

one other thing that i failed to mention is some joint issues that have aggravated me on and off for years have started to flair again. (right hip and shoulder aches) My initial thought is that my meridian flow that runs through the liver is being bogged down for either a good reason or bad, im not sure, but the lack of flow of energy, is doing something to these joints. Dunno for sure tho

 I dont want to give up yet. At this point in my life, its either do or die. And from what you say, you havent come across any stories  where high meat was bad. Im so miserable of being miserable, and  im to the point where im gonna get better, or run this ship into the shore.

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 13, 2016, 05:14:56 am »
Quote from: eveheart on July 13, 2016, 03:57:08 am
If you're thinking that there is something wrong with the meat or with your high-meat-making procedure, why not fill us in on some of the details - how are you making the meat high, how much you are consuming, etc. Has it been the same batch that bothered you? In general, what else are you eating?


thanks for the reply eveheart, and a willingness to help. When i went into this, i wanted to make sure i did it right, and i had come across some of tylers suggestions to go with unfrozen. So i found a free range farmer, and i happen to have a friend that works at a slaughter house and was able to get unfrozen meat. I put it in the fridge and aired it out once every three days like suggested

a little background on myself

Ive had a history of heal issues, even when i was really young. I found out later in life that my mother and father were huge marijuana  smokers when i was conceived, and my mom never stopped smoking while carrying me. She said she smoked daily. Once i was born, my mom would shotgun smoke into my lungs to get me to stop crying. My brother doesnt have health issues like i do, and my mom never smoked with him, so im guessing that the daily marijuana consumption probably did some damage. Im not sure if its reversible, but im giving it my best shot. Dont get me wrong, im pro marijuana legalization, but considering that we have our own endocannabinoid system in our bodies, and when you artificially supply huge amounts of cannabinoids  while a baby is gestating, i would imagine that it would be like a body builder taking testosterone and their own bodies start shutting down its own source of testosterone and the testicles start to shrink. Its all speculation tho, and doesnt really explain my situation.

im eating two pieces about the size of a large marble in the morning, and just swallowing it whole. Im thinking that theres probably nothing wrong with the way i made it. It could be something in the meat itself, but im leaning more towards that the beneficial bacteria in the meat is doing something in my system.......im hoping that its a true detox


if this is a true detox, i thought that maybe if someone else was going through the same thing, that my post will be encouraging to them. Im hoping the end result will be that i poop out some massive nasty things, and my life will improve. But im also considering, that it may be something harmful in the meat.

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 13, 2016, 03:10:02 am »
update number two. So the liver pains have seemed to come back. Im not ready to throw in the towel yet, but i have to be careful cause in the past, ive pushed through things thinking that its just a detox, and seriously messed myself up. However, i cant really see where anybody has seriously messed their selves up eating high meat. At least i havent come across anybody on this forum. I know this forum is to help promote this sort of thing, so i would imagine that these type of stories arent talked about much, but it would be nice to read these accounts just to consider.

For some of you veterans, have any of you come across anybody that gave it a good shot, and for whatever reason, they regretted it? Or have any of you heard of someone going through a detox like this but pushed through it, and was happy they pushed through it?

Just to confirm that im not a troll, Ive been eating raw meat for quite a while, and am really happy with it. Its been a life saver for my insomnia

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General Discussion / Re: liver pains with high meat
« on: July 09, 2016, 09:15:01 am »
a little update. I decided to continue eating high meat, and the pain seems to be easing up........must of been a detox or something

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General Discussion / liver pains with high meat
« on: July 07, 2016, 01:52:33 am »
has anybody ever experienced liver or gallbladder pains with high meat? Every time i eat some high meat, i experience some liver pains for the next 24 hours or so. Its my first go-around with this, so i have not other experience.

Im also considering it might be the  source of meat that i got it from. Its never been frozen, and is free range, but the owner had some brain trauma a while back and isnt quite there sometimes. Which now, im wondering if he didnt take care of the cattle like he should have, or is this something that happens to some individuals when they start eating high meat. 

thank you

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