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Messages - igibike

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1
Journals / Re: A day in the life of TylerDurden
« on: May 25, 2009, 08:47:04 pm »
While there are individual differences in adaptation or non-adaptation to zero-carb, the evidence re loss of physical performance is pretty much across the board - I'm assuming you do low-level exercise so don't notice much difference? Certainly, I (and a number of raw athletes on other groups) have noticed a distinct, massive drop in physical performance when cutting out all carbs from the diet, such as having no endurance or losing physical strength. Plus most photos of long-term zero-carbers show them to be rather too light of weight and not very muscular(indeed same happens to me when I've been extremely VLC or 0 carb) , requiring quite some time to recover from very harsh exercise etc..  This is in stark contrast to the widely reported massive physical attributes/exercise-levels of Palaeo tribespeople, (re evidence of bones), which seems to imply, IMO, that these Cro-Magnon  must have had some carbs in their diet. To date, it has been pointed out that no modern athlete nowadays follow a genuine zero-carb diet, which rather proves things.

I experienced lack of power and excessively long recovery time after work out if carbs are too low.
I believe low carb/very low carb is the best human nutrition strategy.
While zero carb may be good in some pathological case or if one is not doing loads of hard exercise, it is not generally affordable by relatively ambitious athletes.

2
Journals / Re: Luigi's journal
« on: May 16, 2009, 04:13:08 am »
Thank you, Nicola.

I know Angelo quite well.
We both write in an italian forum dedicated to sports and diet.

3
Journals / Re: Andrew's Journal
« on: May 15, 2009, 06:06:43 am »
Not drinking enough may cause problems during physical activity (tachycardia and loss of power) this is what a memebr of our italian forum experienced.

I strictly believe one shouldn't overdrink, but neither underdrink.

4
Journals / Re: Luigi's journal
« on: May 15, 2009, 06:00:12 am »
Hi Ioanna,

our vacation in California has been simply great, me and my wife both liked the places very much (it would be great to go back to US).
I live in North side of Italy (near Bologna), the italian places you cited are very nice and peculiar.

Well, about the south, we too have problems in understanding what they say.

I believe it's easier to learn English that other languages, since songs, movies and other stuff is generally spoken in English.

At the moment I am fine.
About the diet I don't follow a strictly raw regime: when I can I eat raw meat and fat, sometimes I'm forced to rarely cook teh meat for social reasons. I eat some fruits as well (at breakfast, but not so much) and veggies (generally raw, but sometimes cooked as well).
Exceptions are made during and after workouts where I eat carbs and other non paleo foods to sustain the effort and to recover quickly.
I found this plan works very good for me.

Unfortunately I had a crash while going back home at the end of a bike worout, on Tuesday, and now I must recover. Nothing really dangerous, just some excoriations that give problems while dressing/undressing.

I had to stop calf heart because I couldn't stand it any longer, it disgusted me. Now my dinner meat is muscle, and seldom organs from various animals (I prefer to change meats rather than be disgusted again, it's horrible).

My breakfast juice is carrot made and even at breakfast I started rotating between eggs and raw burgers.
From the last year my weght raised about 5 kg, I don't understand yet if it's fat or not.

Anyway, I have to loose some waight because I will join a mountain race in summer, and need to have little weight to go fast on uphills.

5
Journals / Re: Luigi's journal
« on: April 24, 2009, 07:45:26 pm »
Ciao Ioanna,

sto bene, anche se ultimamente ho poco tempo per scrivere nei forum.
Mi fa piacere che ti sia piaciuta Milano, hai visto altre parti dell'Italia ?
dove vivi negli USA ?
Io sono stato in California per 3 settimane in vacanza

A presto

translation for everybody:
I'm fine, even if presently I don't have much time to write in forums.
I'm glad you liked Milan, did you see any other italian place ?
where do you live in the USA ?
I have been in California for a 3 weeks holydays

bye

6
Journals / Re: Andrew's Journal
« on: March 18, 2009, 12:47:53 am »
I think that it depends on the state of the body, for instance in good health one can use some mixture of carbohydrates and fat, while in poor health zero carbohydrate is the best policy.

I agree, thanks.

7
Journals / Re: Andrew's Journal
« on: March 17, 2009, 08:02:45 pm »

So it looks llike The Bear is right, carbohydrates really are poisons, and more so for some.

Sorry, I don't understand this point.

The baseline I undestand is:

If fat contribute is >37% insulin sensistivity tends to decrease a bit (a bit bigger is fats are saterated)
If fat contribute is <37% insulin sensitivity decrease (the decrease being bigger if fats are saturated)

This implies, to me, that carbs and fats (expecially the saturated ones) should not be mixed.

We are discussing a lot about that in our italian forum.

I'll post in my diary my winter experience (I think it's related to that).

8
Journals / Re: Andrew's Journal
« on: February 07, 2009, 01:30:19 am »
Do you really think thats true?.... What about very low carb?

So did you come to agree with me, Andrew ?

I just don't buy into the whole idea re plants being a deadly poison. There's along tradition of herbalism, going way back into the Palaeolithic, and I'm sure that raw cavemen of those days were quite healthy. The so-called toxins in plants can actually have a beneficial effect, if eaten in small amounts(re topic of "phytonutrients") - it's only if you eat vast amounts of solid, raw veg, or if you juice veggies, that it becomes a problem.

Geoff, do you think juicing is not good because the easyness of taking too much toxins ?

9
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: November 18, 2008, 09:33:45 pm »
While Charles does only run twice per week, he also lifts weights twice per week.  He does acknowledge more recovery time is required, but he also firmly believes that running twice per week is all that is necessary.  Training smarter, not harder.  Charles always finishes in the top 10-15% in his races.  And he usually runs in races that have several thousand runners.  Not bad, I'd say.

In the races I got involved so far I got similar results (10-15% in the rank). I try to train smart as well. So the difficult management of a zero carb (for different reasons) keeps me off.

I did almost zero carbs for 4-6 weeks.  No more than 5-15 grams a day, which is basically a few strawberries and maybe a small tomato.  Some days I did no carbs at all.  I lift 3-5 days a week, sprints usually once a week, and I play D-line in IM football.  When I do any type of running I make sure to punctuate at regular intervals with anaerobic exercise. 

It worked out okay at first.  I sort of started right after a brutal work-out.  The next couple days I was constantly hungy, eating (per day) 20-25 eggs, at least 2 lbs of beef, some coconut-oil, and just a very few carbs.  I gained tremendously in a short 3 days.  The results propelled me to give zero carb a try.

But after a couple weeks I started to notice some negative changes.  First off, my breath began to smell bad.  Then I noticed I wasn't gaining really anymore in the gym, and in fact, tended to be losing strength and began to shorten my workouts.  After a few weeks my stomach felt like it was beginning to 'back up', though I was not yet in pain. 

I gave work-outs a rest for a few days, but came home on day 3 feeling terrible.  No fever (yet) but my whole digestive system felt clogged and body achy.  I had the biggest craving for sugars, so I ate alot of raw honey, rasperries, coconut oil, and a few eggs.  I immediately began to feel better (alot like the feeling after a good meal after a big workout).  I was getting sleepy, and ultimately had fever most of the night.  I had some diahhrea, and woke up 3 times to use the crapper, each time feeling better.  By morning I felt MUCH better.  No more fever, and no more diahhrea, though the bowl issues did take a couple weeks to completely clear up.  I still was on very low carb for the next 2 weeks, tho not quite as low, and felt better but still not tip top.

Earlier I mentioned bad breath.  About a week after that night, I went to the dentist (regular checkup), and for the first time in my life, I had a cavity.  In fact, I had 3 black spots on my back molars.   

Near the end of all this, I read a book [The Schwarzbein Principle II] which analyzes diet almost solely from the perspective of the endocrine(glandular) system.  While I disagree w/ much of what she recoommends (alot isn't paleo based), she convinced me that I needed more carbs.  I started eating a bell pepper/tomato/mushroom/peppers/spinach w/ my daily 1.5-2 lb of beef, some papaya/berries/coconut water/etc.  Immediately my breath got better, and despite what the dentist said is possible, the 3 black spots on my teeth began to shrink.  I only have 1 left, and it is rather small. 

I probably eat now between 70-120 grams of carbs/day.  I most definitely will eat a papaya or berries before a workout, and after most 2 hour lifting sessions (which I can regularly do nowadays) I will drink a strawberry/raw egg/honey/goats milk shake for recovery.  I believe my body is probably getting most of its energy from fats, but using carbs during strenuous exercise. 

I'm all about going with what works, and for myself, I have proven that zero carbs doesn't work.  Also, we have genetics to consider.  If you are Inuit or Northern European, it is likely you might be able to get away with fewer carbs.  If your heritage is from more southern latitudes (like the 1/2 Mexican in me), the simple fact is berries taste good, coconut water tastes good, fruit/herbs taste good.  We would definitely have eaten them during our evolutionary history, in addition to bugs which can contain quite a few carbs.  As an aside, I would imagine women to get along better with a few more carbs than men, as they would likely have been the 'gatherers' eating more foraging type foods - just a thought.

       

Similar result keeping carb below a certain level, so I made the same conclusions as guittarman. As far as I know  my descendance is from italian farmers.

Kyle, I guess the reason muscles fatigue quicker anaerobically is that after ATP depletion, energy is needed to resithetise it.
Resithesys may happen aerobically (slower, requires oxygen to burn fat) o anaerobically (faster, oxygen not required). Performing anaerobically we quick fall in oxygen debt, and that kiks anaerobical glucose burning. But glucose/glycogen stores are limeted, that's why we stop earlier.
That's what I know and so far what I experienced to be true.

10
General Discussion / Re: Raw Chicken
« on: November 13, 2008, 06:11:02 pm »
I sometimes eat raw chiken/turkey, but the only part I can eat raw is breast.
I ususally put it in a dish, put some grinded garlic, curry powder and olive oil, then ieat it.
Sometimes I put lemon on it, but don't wait for it to get marinated.

It is goos to my taste, but I have to eat a lot of it to get hungry satisfied.

11
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: November 11, 2008, 06:42:27 pm »
I took a look at the forum/blog.

Weel, in my opinion the situation is as usual: Charles as well, seems to train 1 every 3-4 days.
Another proof that on ZC recovery is so longer.

Again, I believe that to train consistently some carbs are needed, the amount depending on training volume.

12
Take from this week Cordain's newsletter:

---------------------
Pectin is a group of diverse polysaccharides found in all fruits and vegetables. Scientists have recently shown that a fragment of pectin binds to the mammalian protein galectin 3, which they believe to inhibit its roles in cancer progression and metastasis. http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/short/fj.08-106617v2
-----------------------


13
Journals / Re: Andrew's Journal
« on: November 10, 2008, 06:18:09 pm »
Nocola, I don't know if I misunderstood you post (maybe), but I think that if you don't understand/agree with one sportsman mentality, it doesn't mean it's all buillshit.

OR

It doesn't mean if I can't bear the event on zerocarb, than it's not worthy/healty/enjoyable.
Diet is a help for life, not a reason for life.

14
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: November 10, 2008, 06:06:08 pm »
'The bear' doesn't do strenuous non paleo exercise and I don't feel like being insulted either...

I would like to run on fatty acids to be honest as it makes sense but I'm not sure I will ever be able to do it. You have to run/cycle so slowly to keep in your aerobic zone that I may as well just walk. Supposedly with training you can run on fatty acids but an event which I competed in on the weekend my heart rate would of been between 180-210+ bpm

Halfway through the race my stomach was rumbling and I wanted food (even though I was running my heart out) this tells me I needed some quick fuel to resupply glycogen to my muscles. All tho pro's took on carbs at around this point but I kept running.

Hey Igi I think there are a few zero carb athletes on 'Charles's' forum. I wonder how they go? I love the idea of competing well on just meat and fat but I see it's practical to take on carbs during a long race.

I believe that race/train strenuously for a long duration only on fats is pure utopy.
Those situation are non physiological, so they have to be treated accordingly.

Andrew, I don't know "Charles's forum" can you post a link ?

15
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: November 08, 2008, 10:48:32 pm »
Thanks.I will try 100 grams a day for 2 days before and recover with carbs. I'll take your advice and see how I go.

Ok well I've already run the race on zero carb and I was running a a high anaerobic level for 1 hour and 50 minutes. The race was incredibly tough. The winner is an international professional athlete did 14km in 75 minutes which goes to show how tough the course was.

I like the Idea of being able to run this type of event aerobically but wonder if that is ever possible or how long it would take to be able to do this. To run this event aerobically it would of taken me 3+ hours!

I felt terrible during the race and craved carbs about half way through. I recovered very badly and could not think for about 20 minutes after the event. My brain had zero energy.

I will start to carbo load next time before I do a hard session. But I would also like to be able to run on fatty acids http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp...I'm torn and will have to try both.




Thank you very very much for this testimonial, Andrew.
This is the last piece of the puzzle: the proof that, even if one is ketoadapted (if my memory is good you are) it is impossible to practice strenuous physical activity (and a good recovery) on zerocarb.

I'm really sorry for all of the pure carnivores, but for people having athletic ambitions zerocarb is unpracticable. And Andrew's experience is another proof.

According to me even very low carb, without due recherge, is like a suicide when it comes to heavy physical activity.
Just to let you know, last Thursday, in the gym, I felt very good, I made my workout heavy workout, ùi felt good during it and it seemed like I could push it more, but I didn't...
I made no recharge after wo, and kept on very low carbing...

Get what...

I still didn't recover, I have such a pain in my legs that barely can walk, I look like a paralytic.

Never happened in this way with recharges.

Re the bear:
I tried to contact him but....
you can make you conclusions reading his reply, wich I posted.

Anyway...
Good luck for the race !!! ;) ;) ;) ;)

16
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: November 07, 2008, 11:43:07 pm »
If I were you, Andrew, I would start carbo load 1 or 2 day before the event by introducing potoes and/or rice (or whatever carbo food you feel comfortable with). The time depending on your ability to metabolise corbos (it may take 2 day with small portions or 1 day with grater portions).

This is in order to assure you glycogen stores are full.
Be sure to be weel hydrated before the event start.
During the event you may use snacks, sport foods or simply fruits (I feel good with bananas) and drink (If the weatheer is very hot, you may put some salt in you drink in order to avoid hyponatremia).

After the event I use Friel/Cordains approach:
priority is recovery (repleniment of glycogen stores and rebuild of damaged muscle)
Immediately after (30 minutes window): easy digestable sources of glucose (honey is great, fruits, or whatever you like), and protein (or better amminoacids). Carbo to protein ratio is 4:1. The key here is to ingest nutrients that has not to be processed by the digestive system, not to stress the body anymore.
Then, the glycogen replenish takes place for a time span that is as long as the race duration (2 hors window for a 2 hour race) you can keep on eating carbs within your meals.

This is what I believe is right to manage races and hard workouts, this is what I (and others) do.

17
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: November 07, 2008, 11:11:18 pm »
How many carbs would you eat before/after a hard 2 hour long race Igi?

Sorry Andrew, but I'm not a good quantifier, I mosly do it empyrical and by instinct...

Anyway, I can tell you that:

1) It modstly depends on how adapted you are on running on fats (I recently knew a cyclists that needs about 100 g of carbs per hour, he is a very tough rider and aranks very well)
2) It depends on what exertion level you are going to do it (I'm not expert in running races, better on bike's)
3) Are you still doing zerocarb ?
4) What are your past experiences on carbo load/glycogen restore ?

18
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: November 07, 2008, 11:02:17 pm »
Yes, I rode lex journal and made some consideration, indeed I realized that I was wrong or misunderstood something...


19
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: November 06, 2008, 07:52:08 pm »
Yesterday I ate my usual way:

- breakfast: 3 eggs + protein powder + 4 teaspoons of raw grinded coconut, a pear and a glass of veg juice and 25 g of raw butter
- lunch: a dish with 2 artichokes, some (little) salad and 5 very thin slices of roast beef with olive oil
- dinner: a little fennel (only the inner part), lard and some 500 g of beef
- after dinner: half a glass of wine

I didn't train.

Today I woke up and measured my pee pH (about 6.5) and ketones (none).
I have 2 hypothesis:
A - those little carbs where enough as not to kick in gluconeogenesys (no ketones produced)
B - since I am on low carb for a quite long period, I somehow "adapted" and used all the ketones produced (if we assume that, as Kyle suggests, some gluconeogesys and ketones production always occurs).

What's your opinion ?

20
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: November 06, 2008, 05:24:48 pm »

Takenaka T, et al. Fatty acids as an energy source for the operation of axoplasmic transport. Brain Res 2003; 972: 38-43



It could be very iteresting to read this study...


21
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: November 05, 2008, 07:16:32 pm »
For what I know glucose is more efficient in energy imbalance terms.

Even if you have adapted to fill your energy requirements with ketones, glucose is made from protein because it is the only brain fuel.

IMHO

22
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Exercise v. Diet
« on: November 01, 2008, 05:36:00 am »
Maybe diet is a bit more important re ealth.
But exercise is a bit more important re shape.

I believe that mixing both is the best strategy.

23
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: October 29, 2008, 09:25:37 pm »
Seems to hae sens, Kyle, but for what I know gluconeogenesys is triggered by low glucose blood level.

24
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: October 28, 2008, 04:44:35 pm »
but I don't think it's right to assume the body will "know" that it doesn't have to convert protein as if it has a brain of it's own.

Right Kyle, you explained better what I ment.

The baseline is, in energy sparing terms: why build enzymes to convert protein to glucose is there's still glucose in the blood ?

IMHO

25
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: How many carbs do you need?
« on: October 28, 2008, 12:07:17 am »
One relevant question is if you are forcing the body to make glucose from protein by depriving it of dietary carbohydrates or if it's going to convert the same percentage of protein into glucose anyway, without regard for dietary carbo intake.

This is an interesting matter. I did think about.

I assume the "spend less, gain more" (I don't know if it's called like this in english  -\ -\) rule as a universal rule in nature and in our body as well. So, if I take some glucose in, why should my body spend energy to produce it ?


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