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Messages - fishercat

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General Discussion / Re: Are there any Nutarians out there...?
« on: July 18, 2009, 10:16:27 am »
Main issues with nuts:
1. They don't want to be eaten. Trees sometimes benefit from dispersal by animals storing the nuts, but their goal is to germinate and they have antinutrients to keep animals from snacking on too many.
2. Rancidity: They are full of fatty acids that are easily oxidized and so many stores store them in containers that let in air, light, and at room temp...
3. Mycotoxins: mold grows quit easily on them and the associated mycotoxins can be quite poisonous.

Personally, I don't eat them unless I know the source and have shelled them myself.

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I ain't talkin bout no zoo chimps:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/110482604/abstract
Dental pathologies in ten free-ranging chimpanzees from Gombe National Park, Tanzania

The dental remains of ten adult chimpanzees from Gombe National Park, Tanzania, were examined for enamel attrition, caries, abscesses, periodontal disease, and tooth loss. Age was the underlying factor in the development of dental pathology, in that enamel wear was present to some extent in all ten but was uniformly severe only in the three for whom estimated age at death was 39-43 years. In turn, enamel wear appears to have been the direct cause of abscess development, periodontal disease, and tooth loss. Periodontal disease was commonly expressed as alveolar resorption, particularly around the premolars and molars. This involvement was variable in all except the two youngest. Some interesting wear patterns were evident in the form of deep grooves in the upper incisors and dramatic notching of the lower canines. These patterns, and enamel attrition in general, were attributed to normal mastication and to various stripping activities. Only one carious lesion was observed, in a male with an estimated age of 26 years. An accurate assessment of the actual prevalence of caries was obscured by enamel wear and tooth loss in the older individuals.

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What sort of a question is it to ask: "Well what vegan foods did they eat?" It's a ridiculous question and it's already been asked of me. I could just as easily ask "Well what animal foods did they eat?"... YES I COULD!!!! If the fruit and vegetables are all gone then so are the animals that depending on them. AGAIN... I KNOW or would assume that during the ice age we adopted a higher meat intake...

Reindeer can eat lichen. We cannot eat lichen. We can eat reindeer.
If you were a smart vegan you would have answered coconut :) Wild coconut is at least a reasonably energy-dense food.

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Again, I'll post back in a year and two years and tell you who was right. People have been fruitarians for years... whereas very high protein diets are normally at least curtailed due to bone loss, acid-imbalance, heart problems, death etc.

Wait, you do know about the Inuit don't you? They don't exactly keel over and die at 10, they live longer and healthier lives than most Americans on their native diet.


3
There are tons of books and academic papers supporting the argument that it was animal protein that fueled the brain size increase that humans are so distinct for. I have never found any serious academic work indicating anything else....maybe Man The Hunted by Sussman or Wrangham's cooked tuber hypothesis, but I've looked and looked and really haven't found anything else. Answer me this: since modern domestic fruit didn't exist, what raw vegan plant source could have supported human brain development, considering our need for DHA and iodine too...?

The all-meat diet might not be human's ancestral diet, but it does have a proven track record in the traditional societies like the Inuit, whereas fruitarianismish vegan doesn't. Fruitarianism is even completely unlike what apes eat given that domestic fruit is so different from its wild counterparts.

But why would anyone want to eat a chimp diet? Chimps typically lose their teeth by 35, minus modern dental care a fruitarian would lose their teeth even sooner given the sugar content of modern fruit.

Vegans are fighting a losing battle when they insist their diet is the natural human ancestral one. I don't see why they can't stick to bashing factory farming and making ethical arguments, which make a zillion times more sense. Modern vegans seem to do OK...their diet doesn't work very well for most of us on this forum, but I have nothing against them unless they insist their diet is a natural one.

Personally, I don't eat sausages or gazillions of eggs.... neither is really very paleo. I don't eat tons of protein either, I don't feel so great doing that. Fruitarianism doesn't seem to be working so great for you...you don't have to eat all animal either!


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Info / News Items / Announcements / Re: AV on "The Doctors"
« on: June 04, 2009, 08:13:07 pm »
He does make some crazy claims like the 300 heart attack thing that makes him look like a quack. It's kind of a shame.

What is interesting is that Sweden is salmonella-free and the government egg board has a little egg promotion booklet with raw egg recipes. Love it here, sad I'm leaving soon.

Raw fish is another one that is conventionally appetizing. If he had a plate of sushi or gravad lax, the doctors wouldn't be able to say eeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwww. They would probably be reduced to stammering about how pregnant women should avoid it.

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General Discussion / DUCK
« on: May 31, 2009, 04:05:59 pm »
Is there something bad about it? It's very appetizing raw and incredibly delicious, but I don't know many people who eat it and I can only find it in Asian markets.

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General Discussion / Re: Honey
« on: May 30, 2009, 01:18:50 am »
My question is, why do you feel you need them?  If our paleo ancestors living in your region ate carbs, they could only have done so when they were in season.  Why should you behave differently?

Lex

There are local paleo carbs here in Sweden in the winter that I consume. Lingonberries stick around into December, for example. So do juniper berries. Hazelnuts store well. The Sami  (yes, I know, not really paleo) sometimes make a brew of spruce needles that provides some vitamin C.

Berries can be frozen or dried. I actually kept some that I harvested in late autumn in a wooden box and left it outside and they tasted good.

I read Make Prayers to the Raven, which is about a tribe that lives in Alaska. Their winter sources are similar to what is found here. A few berries, some conifer products. But really, they were considered more medicine (or flavoring) than food.

Some of the edible berries used here in Sweden by the Sami are poisonous in large amounts or require boiling.

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General Discussion / Honey
« on: May 29, 2009, 06:27:53 am »
How does everyone fell about honey? I just finished up a course about bees and while working with them I ate it a lot straight from the hives. I actually gained some really unwanted weight in my belly and I have canker sores. Yeah, not so much fun. I don't think it will be a regular part of my diet. I noticed my teachers were not big honey eaters, but I've met so many people who looked great who eat it...

8
Surely you don't support this kind of thing?

1) Banana leaves are not paleo, they should use bitter leaves and lichen.
2) Paleo people would have eaten with their hands not some little wooden sticks.

I for one cannot believe that some people here watch TV. Did cavemen watch TV? Did they use the interest? No way! Using these things is not paleo at all!

Not to mention all the electric lights...any proper paleo diet excludes these.

9
General Discussion / Re: Wild Fruit
« on: May 27, 2009, 11:05:48 pm »
Hey, I recommend the book Plants for a Future. It has info about many wild fruits in Britain. My favorites in Sweden include red currants, sea buckthorn, sloes, bilberries, and lingonberries. Some of these grow in Britain too.

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Welcoming Committee / Re: Greetings from Sweden
« on: May 27, 2009, 10:01:58 pm »
Greetings!

Bjorn Borg, ABBA...

Ah Sweden... haven't been there.  And I thought you had a lot of wild salmon.  Where is wild salmon abundant?

Me too! I guess the Swedes, as eco-sensitive as they are now, haven't always been so. The fish stocks in the Baltic are pretty bad...it's almost impossible to find true wild salmon. It's not sold in stores because of high levels of dioxins. The North Sea has big salmon megafarms. The Swedish diet traditionally had lots of fish: raw, cooked, salted, pickled, smoked, fermented...and everything in between, but that has changed. I went to both the fall fermented herring (smells worse then it tastes) parties and the spring raw herring parties and they still go strong, but fewer and fewer people are eating these things. I guess they are working on bringing the stocks back now.

My roommates are Swedish women and most of them are very beautiful. They eat lots of fermented dairy, blood pudding, some cured meats, coffee, sugary buns, and whole grains. Not terrible like SAD, but when you look at their mothers, that diet looks less desirable. It's interesting because I have many friends and my boyfriend who are ethnically Finish, and they really struggle with the standard Swedish diet. Acne, obesity, heart disease are much higher in Finland, just going to Helsinki it's such a dramatic difference even though they are eating almost the exact same things...genetically I guess they are closer to the Sami reindeer herders and less well adapted to the high-carb modern Swedish diet.

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Welcoming Committee / Greetings from Sweden
« on: May 27, 2009, 07:26:23 pm »
Hej! I've been lurking here occasionally for some time, so I thought I'd finally join and introduce myself. I'm a twenty-something agronomy student. I've worked in agroecology and for some food policy organizations for some time, but I'm still a little bit in the "closet" about my diet. I certainly didn't adopt it for fun. I had some severe health problems (IBS, GERD, ulcers, asthma, arthritis, chronic fatigue) some years back probably caused by a ridiculously horrible diet of things like hot dogs and ice cream, which I cured with a paleo diet. Also lost a bunch of weight, cleared up my skin, and became converted to the fat=good camp.

 Then I moved to Europe and I was really great, so I started eating crap again, drinking coffee...and vodka. Got sick, took ibuprofen, stomach got bad again...not as bad as before, but clearly in bad condition. When I tried to go back to paleo I found that the cooked meats made me feel quite bad. So I'm now into raw, esp. raw fish, which I love, but I didn't grow up eating fish (I was picky) so I am constantly discovering new fish to eat. I'd like to phase out salmon, which is delicious, but hard to find wild here in Sweden. I think having a good omega-3:omega-6 ratio has been instrumental in fighting my illnesses.

I guess my main obstacle is that I'm quite poor (mostly by choice since I've been working in low-paying volunteerist sort of things in sustainable ag, though of course sometimes I have access to the best things like freshly slaughtered meat). I have learned to ID many wild plants, which is great since Sweden is a place that cherishes foraging, but I'm moving to a big US city soon. I will miss the reindeer and moose too, but I can't wait to eat buffalo again. I've done a little hunting and fishing and would love to do more. I'm currently only about 80% raw, but it has increased rapidly and probably will go highly as my health continues to improve. It's amazing that I've recovered pretty well because in my line of work I encounter some pretty tasty, but unhealthy food, and I do cheat. I guess my dietary goals these days are to exercise more, eat less sugar (hard because I'm beekeeeeeeeping, but it does not make me feel so great), and stop drinking so much caffeinated tea.

I'm also very interested in anthropology, partially because of my paleo diet and also because of working with Native Americans who suffer from the horrifying effects of modern food. I guess when I am more established I would like to "come out of the closet" as paleo and write a book. I work with lots of people who are vegetarians, vegans, dairy-farmers, and everything else, so I'm not sure I want to take down these things just yet :)

I've been on some raw vegan forums, but I'm clearly not a raw vegan and I get tired of dealing with the constant barrage of pseudoscience ala "OMG animals R cute and fruit iz g8, meat rots ur intestinz." I'm glad forums like this exist!

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Health / Re: Cause of Heart Disease?
« on: May 27, 2009, 03:46:23 pm »
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/  is not a raw paleo blog, but he has written a series of posts on the issue. My pet one is the bad omega-3:omega-6 ratio of most diets. Optimal is 1:1 to 1:3. It effects blood clotting, inflammation, and  many other heart disease factors.

Oxidized fats (those damaged by things like frying or being left out in the light too long like most almonds) is another one I think people don't think about...they really promote inflammation.

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Coming out of lurkage because my experience was so similar. In my case those same symptoms were indicative of ulcers, leaky gut, and general bacterial problems in my gut. There is already lots of good advice here. I wonder if you have celiac disease because your symptoms fit perfectly.

I personally got rid of 95% of problems by eating 0 carbs for as long as I could, which was a week. That will starve out any bacterial overgrowth. I did consume lemon juice as a digestive aid and I think it is a much better one than ACV.

Then you need to make your good bacteria happy and your gut wall into a fortress. That means not torturing the poor bacteria and muscosal layer with fiber and antinutrients. Yes, that means no prunes, dried fruit, grains, and other outdated gut torture devices. They work on a technical level, but like enemas, they do not address the real problem and the BMs you get come at a real cost for the gut. You may feel bad without them at first, but eventually the gut should sort itself out again.

Grains, legumes, caffeine, and nightshades can also contribute to leaky gut.

I have consumed fermented foods/probiotics too, but I don't think they are very effective. The bacteria in them do not colonize your gut, so they are not a real solution. A real solution works with your own gut species mix to make them a happy balanced ecosystem. Maybe try them simply to phase out the fiber stuff?

If a meat is unappetizing, like the ground beef, you should probably considering ditching it in favor of something easier to eat raw like fish. Fish is also great because it can help you correct the poor omega-3:omega-6 balance so many people suffer from. Omega-3 fatty acids are important to the function of the gut's "brain" and to reducing inflammation. When you eat too much omega-6, your body cannot use the omega-3 as efficiently. It's way I no longer eat almonds or avocados....they are omega-6 bombs! I track my omega-3:omega-6 ratio very carefully because it is so important for brain, skin, and gut. Usually my ratio is 1:1 to 1:4.

Once you want to move back to including some carbs, I think smoothies with greens and berries are the way to go. You should strain them out to get rid of gut-irritating seeds. These should also help you gain some weight.

I've fixed myself this way twice now :) I got myself into such good shape that I thought I was invincible last year and I admittedly partied, ate cake, and took ibuprofen enough that my symptoms came back. It's annoying to do it again, but it taught me a valuable lesson about not taking a good thing for granted.

I am working with honey bees now and I hate to admit it...but honey, even raw fresh honey, is candy. I was eating it all the time recently while working with hives and it was making me feel crappy.

I use coconut oil, but it's also a treat.

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