I will make my own bone meal using a file, and will chew on a bit from time to time.

I wont eat any fruit, but I do drink lemon water with a couple of eggs to keep hydrated. I think the minerals in the eggs help maintain good electrolyte balance

I was told many years ago by a dentist not to drink lemon water as the acidity can eat away the tooth enamel, causing increasing sensitivity as it thins. My enamel is very worn over my molars and a little dentyne is exposed in places, which makes them very sensitive (mainly from chewing because a lot of my teeth don't meet so a few teeth have been overused!!!). Anyway, can barely tolerate any acidic fruits - avoid pineapple, strawberries, raspberries, and limit citrus and tomatoes and sour apples. But anything too sweet also triggers the sensitivity, so honey I hardly use either. It seems that if I go through a stressful period, the sensitivity is worse, so the trigger point theory may have some validation. Especially sinsce if I am stressed, experiencing neck and shoulder tension, and then eat acidic fruit - wham, it triggers off a tension headache which seems to come straight from sensitive tooth. All connected. Green smoothies made with lots of greens, a few bananas and a little coconut oil very soothing and healing. Chewing beef fat also soothing.

To be fair, he had tremendous problems with raw dairy.  It almost made his teeth fall out.

Is this true Tyler? Was this your experience with dairy? Did you have tooth decay or was it a gum problem?
And how are your teeth now on your current diet?

Hi Foxwoman
This is definitely not paleo and not raw, but have you considered using a bit of ghee? Contains no dairy solids, pretty much just straight oil, but has Vit A, D, E, K, an insignificant amount of Ca (no Mg), and a good omega 3: omega 6 ratio. High in SFA and cholesterol tho. Massive health benefits, especially ito of cell repair as according to Ayurveda, it helps transport nutrients into cells very effectively. Supposedly also replaces oxidised lipids in cell membranes with unoxidised lipids. May help clear up your skin again.
Stacks of info around on ghee, but here are a few basic descriptions to give you a general idea.

I use a dsp over a bowl of greens and herbs - delicious.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/363779-ghee-nutrition-information/
http://www.livestrong.com/article/259745-ghee-benefits-in-diet/
http://www.livestrong.com/article/265447-nutritional-benefits-of-ghee/
http://www.rwood.com/Articles/Ghee.htm

Cheers,
Bronwen

Sorry if you answered already: How long have you been eating fruitarian?
Nicole

Hi Nicole

RAw vegan since about 2004, then discovered 811 end of 2006, and tried on and off with that ever since....every time I went to two meals of fruit a day I could never last longer than a month, and would revert back to one fruit meal, one salad meal (but had periods where that turned into mixed raw and cooked veg). Was never 100% fruitarian though, always eaten lots of greens.

Cheers,
BRonwen

Are there fat wild animals in southern Africa available at all?

I am not sure - will have to find out. It will be part of my learning curve in RPD!

What are your experiences with nuts?

Haven't eaten nuts in a while. Used to eat regularly and enjoy them, but never fresh from the shells - just didn't see them around that much. I digested them fine unless I ate more than about 50-60g, depending on how fatty they were (I did better on seeds and raw seed butters, especially tahini...but too easy to overeat on it as I liked it so much). Any more than that made me feel heavy and bloated.
Anyway, I read that because the already shelled nuts are usually heat-treated they can cause teeth problems (encourage decay), as they stick to teeth much like dried fruit. So stopped eating nuts end of November last year, as I have a few teeth showing signs of decay. My teeth certainly feel a lot better, though I have changed other factors as well, like including raw meat and lowering fruit intake to once a day. Also nuts used to be mainly a 'snack' between meals, and I have stopped all 'snacking' and just stick to two meals a day, so that may be making a difference too.

the salt story is interesting - I sometimes used to take a tiny pinch of himalayan salt with my nuts and I could eat more then than the 50-60g, now that I think about it.......

Sabertooth - thanks for sharing! Wonderful that you are experiencing that.

    Last I ate, maybe a half hour ago, was plain calf liver I had cut into bite size chunks without using metal.  I didn't eat or drink anything with it and no sauce/dip.

Is there a reason for not using metal to cut your liver? Does it give it a metallic taste? What about other raw meat?

Hi Bronwen,

as far as I know Impalas a very lean animals. I would like to know: Do they have fat at all? (backfat, kidney fat etc.)? Was it a grass fed animal?

Löwenherz

Yes, you are right, they are very lean animals, no significant back or kidney fat. But will supplement with buying more fatty meats to give me some variation. Yes, grass fed, as in wild indigenous bush diet. It is a large game farm he runs with many large wild herbivores (rhino, zebra, eland, kudu, many antelope species). They also have a herd of wild goats and he says their meat is amazing, will give me half the next time he shoots for himself.

I came from fruitarianism (and after a little time in 811) and now I enjoy a lot meat.

Hi Louna - good to hear from you. I have seen some of your posts since you started on the raw paleo diet, and seen your challenges to find a balance between fruitarianism and carnivorism!! Glad to see you posted yesterday that you are feeling good now on less fruit, more vegetables and lots of meat. I have also had a lot of confusion since I started. I know too much fruit makes me more anxious and tense and I don't sleep well (active mind), but didn't know where to find the balance between fruit, veg and meat. None of it gives me any particularly major health problems, tho raw veg other than greens give me bloating and often a sore stomach the next day. For now I have found the balance between fruit in the morning, and greens and meat in the afternoon. Will see how it goes.

I also do Yoga as a great passion and will start studies to become professor.
I am interested to know about if you observe some changements in your practice since you eat some meat.
At differents levels : Physical (flexibility, force...), psychological, spiritual...

I have only been eating meat since the beginning of the year, and eating less fruit, and definitely I have noticed that:
- I feel much stronger (a deep inner physical strength) in my yoga practice
- I have more energy physically and have added an extra class to my teaching schedule, and haven't had the feeling I sometimes used to get of not having enough mental or physical energy to teach a class
- I feel more flexible, but I suspect this is because muscle tension has lessened from eating less fruit and generally feeling less anxious
- a definite lessening in habitual neck and shoulder tension
- psychologically feel more confident and positive, and I seem to be attracting lots more students to my classes (don't know whether this coincidence or not, but I feel that it is related to a change in diet)
- difficult to assess true psychological/spiritual effects at this stage, because I have been quite stressed at changing the diet and figuring out what will work for me, finding sources of meat etc. So my mind has been very busy with those worries, but my meditation and yoga practice has been stabilising in terms of helping me always to see the broader perspective and helping me access my own truth about what I should be doing (I have read SOOO much conflicting stuff out there, all very confusing

My thoughts now about ehtic, is that it is not easy to be in peace with eating animals in this time of society but I'm not sure that the very ancients yogis were vegetarians.
Also cereals destroy the planet (for vegetarians) more than eating animals does (grass fedded) and eating fruits destroy our self...
We can just have the attitude of animals who eat because they need and we can added consciousness of respect and by the path of tantra take pleasure.

Yes, I battled with this initially. I'm not sure about the ancient yogis, but in Ayurveda animal foodstuffs are used if necessary for health. I think a lot of one's personal choice depends on the reasons for choosing a particular diet. It is said that to reach the highest levels of consciousness, one has to be vegan. But I think we have to consider our path in this life and whether that is what we are called to do or not.  It may be that health should be first priority to enable one to fulfill one's chosen path, and fulfilling one's chosen path is a spiritual practice in itself anyway. I feel that I am called to teach and pass on the wisdom of yoga, and in order to do that I have to keep myself healthy physically as well as spiritually. So if eating meat helps me physically, then I need to find a way of seeing that as a spiritual practice as well. Nothing in this universe is separated from 'Source' or "truth' or 'God', whatever you choose to call  it, so we need to find that essence in everything we do.  As long as it is done with respect for all life, with honesty, moderation and non-greed.
Part of the mystery of life is that death needs to happen in order for life to continue, on every level. Agriculture for grains and fruit destroys plenty of life in the process, so vegans are not exempt from killing (it is just done with no awareness). The same goes for factory farming of animals – mindless killing for greed, and mindlessness on the part of people who eat from such places.
But I think if we can respect the sacredness of life, ensure that we only take sufficient for our needs and not for greed, and ensure the animals have lived a natural, happy and contented life, and express our gratitude for the life of that animal, then we are on our way to a more ethical approach.

I think it is a topic that has vast scope for discussion and debate. But I feel Ok about it now, and my Vipassana meditation helps a lot –helping me maintain eqanimity and a state of balance and seeing the whole perspective,  the basic truth being that nothing is permanent (things are constantly rising up and falling away) and therefore it is pointless either become attached to or repelling anything. But within that state, always maintaining basic moral principles of respect for all life.
Here is a post from earlier in this thread which was useful:

Bronwen, hi.  You might try the pages of beyondveg.com.   They have or had an 'enlightening' article describing just how many animals are killed when tractors farm with discs, or with orchards and the killing of ground animals that would otherwise descimate the fruit tree's roots.  The examples are many.  Bottom line is that when you eat beef, you may eat one cow a year.  When you eat carrots and beans, and fruits, you actually are killing hundreds of animals (albeit, small ones) each year.  We tend to value a larger animal more than say a rabbit or snake or ground squirrel.      The other point is, all well cared for and humanely killed large animals live a glorious life that they never would have had the chance to live if not for you.  And they aren't left in the wake of a tractors harrow or discs bleeding to death from being cut in half or dismembered.    Maybe this might help.     Oh, and you might try eating your beef separate from your salads.  Salads tend to diminish the acid level needed to handle meat, especially  if coming from a veg. orientated diet.   All the best,   Van

Bye for now,
Bronwen

Perhaps the fact that you had sometimes before eaten meat (cooked rare, but no matter) would leave you with a memory of it, and the picture remained you about it? Sight of a foodstuff or even the thought of it can sometimes trigger salivation (but only as long as we know it for having eaten it before, I think), so in such a case the craving can be spot on. But the final judge is the smell and taste sense. Yeah, that’s absolutely typical. The first time we eat a particular stuff raw, it can taste absolutely delightful. And very often we become subsequently unable to find it so supremely delicious. That’s consistent with the theory because if a vital need has been fulfilled the first time, that need had become no so crucial and therefore the stuff happen to be a bit less delectable.

Yes, what you say makes sense. I do sometimes wonder though whether we have an inherited memory of such things like taste and smell....maybe from one or two generations back, or even millenia back, without having ever tasted or smelled a thing before. I'm sure we have some sort of innate ability to tap into what we know is good for us, but that we have totally lost contact with it, or lost the ability to use it.
Just thoughts and musings on my part - I don't expect answers, as I'm sure no-one really knows! Just interesting options to consider. If it is true that on some level we have access to ALL there is to know, then this possibility must be true, and it would be amazing to be able to tap into that knowledge and use it to our benefit.....

Sure. I can definitely say that based in my years of wasting time on such things that this forum has the highest percentage of really intelligent people..many people are possibly even healthy too..which is a big step up from other health forums.

100% agreed....I only joined beginning of January and that has been the feeling I get - intelligent and pretty healthy people here.  And most of them have 'been around' as far as exploring different diets, so a mass of info to be shared. Tho some of the debates seem to degenerate into taking things personally as you point out......but that's only 'cos people get attached to certain theories and then completely identify themselves with them. So any criticism of a certain WOE becomes a criticism of themselves. Whereas an open-minded approach may lead you to discover something you can add or drop to make "Momma's meatballs taste even better".......
But part of what I like about this forum is that the majority of folk on it have actually made more dramatic (and braver??!!) changes to previous WOE in order to change their health than on other forums....not too stuck in rigidity from that aspect.

oh sheeesh...THAT guy.

Yeah, him! I enjoy your posts you know, I think you are a bit like me - no half measures if you decide to go for something. Find out as much as you can and experiment. Keep what works, chuck what doesn't and let people know what you've discovered. It's up to them to decide what to do with the info!