H. Fructos, you have got to be dense or a total fruitarian vegan robot. Or worse, a troll."

Ad hominems duly noted. I understand your frustration. You've yo-yoed quite a bit with popular diets. I asked for some scientifically credible support or reason for consuming dietary-induced, mucus-forming foods...

"I live in the Philippines and we have organic / wild by default fruit with nutritious volcanic soil."

Then why did you say you were 'malnourished'? If you're processing the fruit and not including ~110+ species of various fruits + other plants, you may be limiting your variety compared to other hominoids. Most humans consume about half the variety of plants as chimps.


"Fruits alone cannot sustain me."
I respect your principles. I was just seeing if you had experience with a varied fruit diet from good quality soil and if you were able to identify the 'malnourishment'.

Human tribes have widespread nutrient deficiencies, unlike closest relatives.
"Just as no tribe is purely fruitarian or vegan."
No tribe is free from rampant degenerative/acquired diseases either.


As for the pain that I felt when my intestines were inflamed. That was very real.
As for the remedy of the cooked pork. That was very real."

I just have trouble believing cooked pig has medicinal value to remedy acidosis or excess mucus stores. So far the available evidence is that cooked meat of all types degrades the digestive system. I realize cooking pigs is popular, I'm just inquiring about potential health issues.


Are you going to ask and listen to personal testimonials"
Yes. Did you have a diagnosis??What nutrient in fruit caused the problems for you??


"keep on ranting against meat "
You're upset and overly defensive.I'm trying to be open minded. What was the mechanism by which cooked pig cures inflammed intestines?



"WE NEED MEAT"
Why?

"to reproduce?"
    It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases…Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.
                                                                                                   

"Ihighly suggest you go on your merry vegan / fruitarian way and shun ALL ANIMAL FOOD.  "
I'm not vegan or fruitarian. Is this how you enlist new members??

When you eventually hit the wall of the vegan / fruitarian malnutrition,"What malnutrition???

"you can come back and ask for our help"
'us'?How many people are on your account? I thought I was asking for your testimony as the head of the household, feeding children based on experience. You seem resistent to share relevant information but anxious to repeat that you've been cured...

raw paleo diet is a mucus free diet
the only credible evidence I need is raw paleo diet is mucus free for myself and all my children.

By 'mucus free' are you claiming you and children don't get sick or have allergy symptoms?

I do not need any $$$ "studies" to tell me this.



"Self experimentation rocks."

I agree, which is why I asked if you had experience with a raw alkaline diet to contrast with the diet you now practice. I am asking for your experimenting experience in lieu of the absence of scientific studies supporting your claim that raw meat is not acidifying or mucus-forming for humans.

For instance, If a dieter is interested in healthy/natural diets yet experiences any sinusitis, hayfever, sinus infections, pleuria, colds or flues while on any particularly acidifying diet, I would ask him or her to contrast the frequency of such maladies before and after long term experimentation on an alkaline diet experiment/experience since mucus is formed as a natural reaction to undigested food particles for protection against putrefaction/rotting inside the stomach, mucus stores build up over long-term, remaining reservoirs for bacteria, viruses, etc.

"This is why we share experiences in this forum."

Exactly. Please elaborate.

"Try raw paleo diet for yourself"
I sort of did but it was rare meat and raw meat but I didn't do the long term totally raw, which is why I'm asking for any scientifically credible references for the claim that raw meat is not mucus-forming. Personal accounts with experience are also persuasive if details are shared.

'try raw organic meat yourself and you will know."

I'm having trouble believing raw meat is less mucus forming than raw fruit for instance, as I'm aware that fruit is mucus cleansing from experience and from the scientific literature on the topic. I'm asking for any data or personal accounts otherwise.

    Have you tried raw meat?

Yes. I have consumed some animals while the animals were still moving. I opted for rare or raw when I did consume the animals. I consumed a high protein diet.

 You need HCl to digest vegetables, did you know?

Quote from: H.fructus on October 27, 2009, 06:47:54 pm

All food goes through acidic stomach to kill germs initially.

But different food classes elicit different HCl concentrations. The more difficult to digest require more concentrated HCl.

    "About twenty-five years ago, still veg, it looked like I was getting osteoporosis."
Consuming dairy? Grains? Nuts? Seeds? If so, that is not surprising. My wrist inflammation diminished gradually when I replaced rare/raw fish with alkalizing foods. I still consumed some brown rice and flax seed pastas but I naturally experienced some inflammation to varying degrees until I eliminated the grains (in accordance with what one would expect from the scientific literature on the topic).

"I started eating (raw) meat."
At the expense of the the other more acidifying foods? Cooked food is more difficult to digest and more acidifying in general.

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I only had to take about 3g of fish oil a day to experience the Inuit nosebleed problem. I had some occasional nosebleed problems in the past in one nostril that may have made me more susceptible, and it was that nostril that I had the nosebleeds from the fish oil. In one case I was just standing in the kitchen talking to someone and all of a sudden blood started gushing out of my nose for no apparent reason (I hadn't blown my nose or sneezed) and it took a long time to stop. The people I was talking to were shocked. I cut back on the fish oil not long after that incident and have only had one or two very minor nosebleeds that quickly stopped since then, and they occurred after I had been blowing my nose a lot from morning hayfever."

I used to get nose bleeds too (in addition to sharp pains from straining the lining of my intestine from consistent pressure/nasal discharges) while consuming a high protein diet. I remember the humiliation of being escorted to a bathroom at elementary school during one sudden nose bleed. I thought something was inherently defective about my sinus reactions. Now I appreciate the quick reaction of my body to form mucous and excrete toxins. I view the sinus trouble as a symptom not cause of a problem. I use it as a natural guide for diet. My dogs never get nose bleeds and rarely get hayfever but seem to digest concentrated protein better. I'm unaware of any animal eating biochemically compatible food that gets hayfever as frequently as humans and certainly not seasonal nose bleeds. If an animal does have a nose bleed it is a sign of cancer or has been in a fight. Animals don't traditionally eat foods that are mucous-forming though. I do not miss those seasonal nose bleeds, frequent congestion, etc. With age, other problems can arise from untreated hayfever.

I am and will continue to closely monitor my new son's eye colour.  They were a fantastic clear blue when he was born.  He's now almost 4 months old and I have sadly noticed a light brown is forming around the pupil.

Nothing to be sad about, it is natural. Melanin is forming to protect eyes and skin and he is genetically programmed to manifest brown color by 12 months of age.


"He is solely breast fed"
The best diet for humans.

 

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Aug;88(:3554.
Maternal consumption of a high-meat, low-carbohydrate diet in late pregnancy: relation to adult cortisol concentrations in the offspring.
..high-protein diets stimulate the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis..excess cortisol and programming lifelong hypersecretion of cortisol.
cortisol concentrations increased 5.4% per portion of maternal meat/fish consumption per day (P = 0.03), decreased 3.3% per portion of green vegetable consumption per week

    Fructus, I don't see you in the welcoming thread.  What do you eat?

I didn't know there was a welcoming thread. I eat mainly organic fruit, leafy greens and sprouts (Miocene diet). Paleo dieters tend to find it boring/unpopular.

"extremely aggressive compared to others. also weird because i am a female and have been this way since i was just a little wildebeast!..however i have notived an increase in these that seems to coincide with my comsumption of raw meats...i eat elk and salmon, sometimes buffalo (if im cooking it at work)
maybe too much elk?"

I noticed feeling more relaxed and blood pressure dropped 10 points by replacing fish with fruit too.

"J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jun;92(6):2208.
Stress responsiveness in adult life: influence of mother's diet in late pregnancy.
Men and women whose mothers ate high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet in late pregnancy have raised blood pressure and plasma cortisol.
..advised to eat 1 pound of red meat daily during pregnancy and avoid carbohydrate-rich food..offspring of women who reported greater meat and fish consumption in the second half of pregnancy had cortisol concentrations raised by 22%"
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Aug;88(:3554.
Maternal consumption of a high-meat, low-carbohydrate diet in late pregnancy: relation to adult cortisol concentrations in the offspring.
..high-protein diets stimulate the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis..excess cortisol and programming lifelong hypersecretion of cortisol.
cortisol concentrations increased 5.4% per portion of maternal meat/fish consumption per day (P = 0.03), decreased 3.3% per portion of green vegetable consumption per week

"i remember discussing with someone that the feelings that an animal experiences at death are carried over into the muscles via different hormone and other chemicals releases into the body at that point....
anyone know anything about that?"
 

Even though you may already produce enough testosterone, you're also consuming it in meat.


"definitely wont stop or slow my comsumption just something i have recognized lately...... "

You're definately not paranoid about 'paranoia' then...