Cheri - I fermented all the dairy - but I was eating more than just the cream and butter I made from it. I was also eating the cheese and some of the whey as well. I have often wondered if it would be the same kind of problem for me if I just stuck to fermented cream and butter. That's the best part anyway and what I miss the most. Nothing can beat freshly picked tiny strawberries from the garden mixed into fermented cream.

Hey Dorothy and all.

Just want to point out that your bones and joints pain not necessarily  occurred due to drinking and eating dairy products.

But let's say pain was caused by dairy.

How do you know that your pain was actually something bad happening to you? Especially regarding joints (you said you are an experienced dieter, you have your diet perfect for few decades... So you are not that young anymore right?).

You said: "It became easy for me to hurt a bone". Have you broke any bone during exercise? If yes then clearly you may be right regarding dairy consumption (in your case at least).

Have you made any bone density scans?

Also PAIN is a very broad term. Sometimes pain is actually a sign of healing. You stopped dairy and felt better but that doesn't mean dairy was a problem (and doesn't mean you actually made good decision)

I just want to say to be cautious about making any statements without providing hard evidence.

Regarding hormones in dairy and meat. There is no evidence that hormones present in food will pass through digestive tract (especially stomach) in unchanged and active form. In fact there are some strong reasons to believe they will not.

In general, hormones can't be administrated orally (without risk of toxicity) because acidity of stomach will change their form and turn them useless (biologically inactive) . That's one reason why preferred are injectables.

Of course there are oral hormones as well but they will get activated in the liver only and then will hit tissues. So in the muscles of animals or/and dairy products they end up in an active form. Even if they somehow make it to our plate they will surely get destroyed by stomach acidity.

That's why bodybuilders prefer injectables over oral stuff. Oral stuff can be hard on liver. And they can't just drink or eat free forms (or esters) of hormones for reasons I mentioned earlier.

"Hormones in meat and milk" BS was probably created by vegetarians and some "eko friendly" freaks.

Of course there are other problems with milk and meat but that's a different story.