cherimoya, could you list and describe your exact daily diet? I think it's important to make it public attention in case it's the cause of your having acquired sociopathic qualities.

Or you just have a special sense of humour.   

Well, the odd thing to me is how we always utilize science and measurements when deciding whether something is harmful or not. It doesn't feel intuitive to look into the amount of sugar (with no mention of what kind of sugar) and conclude that it has to be harmful. Does eating 15 bananas in a day have a harmful effect on blood sugar? Does it causes energy highs and lows? Is it bad for you in combination with high fat intake or simply in and of itself? Right now all I get is contradictions depending on which camp you ask the questions to. That Steve Pavlina guy was testing his blood sugar throughout the 30 day vegan diet and it all played out normal. Of course, we could follow cherimoya's angry approach and point our fingers while shouting out "lies, liars and bastards!" but I'm rather relaxed and not interested in indulging in that type of behaviour.

I love to have the salmon for lunch but that's probably arbitrary. It would sure be nice to have it after a workout as well. It definitely becomes a more expensive day if I were to eat it three times throughout, though I could afford to. I suppose the jury is still out in my mind regarding diets. I'm studying the material and testing things out. Eating close to a pound of greens per day, including 100-150 grams of Spinach (or dark green leaf) seems indispensible to ensuring I feel good. I have the raw egg in the morning but I'm going to start increasing intake of them to probably 2-4 in a day and see how that goes. I think combining them into a smoothie which has bananas in them (and hence sugar) causes indigestion...just like how 811'ers aren't supposed to add nuts or avocados, anything with high-fat, into sugar meals. Of course, my diet is not 811 anymore, it's something of a Frankenstein at this stage.

Would, for example, eating 10-15 bananas a day constitute a harmful act to a diet? I've noticed that eating multiple mangos causes bloating/distension. In fact, I suspect it contributed to me losing my flat tummy and gaining a small belly which is now difficult to get rid of. I ate about 600 grams of raw fish today which demonstrates my diet is more raw omnivore (or paleo) than it is raw vegan. I could easily eat a pound of salmon in one go, it's absolutely delicious. Tuna not so much, though it has a refreshing and grounding feeling to it. I have 1-2 raw eggs per day as well.

Fascinating. I'm only half-steeped in that instincto principle, however I understand it sufficiently enough to follow your point.

Were you in touch with the 811 community and ask for their counsel on what's going on, what to do, etc?

The interesting thing is that there are some in that community (e.g. 30 bananas a day ning community) who seem to thrive on the long-term. I'm wondering if this is a question of the diet being 'wrong' altogether or that it only works for a certain subset of people. "Different strokes for different blokes", etc.

I was full 811 for about two months. I felt really good when I kept the greens intake high, particularly dark greens like spinach. However, with doubts creeping in I added significant amounts of raw fish (about 200-500grams per day) and some raw eggs. I've also been experimenting with adding steamed vegetables (10-25% of my daily diet right now) which may have caused me to catch the cold I'm recovering with right now.

Eating the raw fish and eggs definitely doesn't seem to have any adverse effects. In fact, my body really seems to enjoy it. However I'm keeping up a high intake of fruits and greens and I'm not sure if that's a bad thing. The issue of bloog sugar, from the 811 point of view, isn't on sugar itself (at least not natural sugar) but rather high sugar in combination with high fat. Overconsumption of fats, from their perspective, interferes with insulin efficacy and therefore strains the pancreas, adrenals and inevitably the entire system.

In any case, I'm feeling fairly well with this diet right now. I need to see about whether I'll be keeping the steamed vegetables in the diet or not, though. The jury is still out as I read up and learn more and test it on my body firsthand.

Thank you for the kind words, PaleoPhil. I'm focusing on the Tom Billings beyondveg.com site to accompany the varied raw vegan/vegan sources that are amply available. I'll hopefully also soon receive the 811 book by Dr.Doug Graham to better understand his take on things (as well as his grain damage and athletic book). I need to get a fully rounded understanding of everything and make the healthy, sensible, choice based on what makes sense.

I actually started eating raw organic eggs since last week, so it's great that we're on the same page on that. 

Well, yon yonson, it wouldn't do us very good to discuss a book only one of us has fully read and the other is only a couple centimeters steeped in, would it? I've watched the entire series twice and I still need to go for another few rounds to digest it properly. It sounds like you need to watch the growth versus prosperity one again. 

When you find yourself at the extreme end of an exponential cycle in almost every type of economic, energy and environmental model which sustains us and our way of life, you can see that we're headed for a cliff. Human life will go on, certainly to some extent or another. However, when we do fall off it, discretionary energy will no longer exist or be available for societal complications like luxuries or much non-survival hobbies which are trivial in the face of the work you need to get done each day to contribute to your community. The communities which exist will fall in line with primitive systems a la ecosystem villages around the world.

Oh, no. I was thinking of putting the whole thing in a bug tupperware and from day to day cutting off a piece and eating that. Good idea regarding the mincer.

I found NZ lamb at the local grocery store. It's all of the leg variety. They have Australian as well...

Would I do well to eat a lot of NZ leg lamb?

I'm in Dubai and it's almost impossible right now to find any grass-fed meat. The main issue here is that the climate is such that we import everything. And there is pretty much very low demand for anything organic, free-range, etc. Hopefully this will change in the next year (I've heard some extra shops are opening of this sort). What do I do until then? Stick with raw fish until better comes around? Do other people here eat solely raw fish?

BTW, as I started including steady raw fish into my otherwise raw vegan diet, my bowel movements went from once a day to 2-3 times. Pretty encouraging but why do you think this is occurring?

As a curiosity, aside from no longer being a vegan anymore, what happens to the health of someone who eats the 811 diet but adds a piece of meat into their diet every day or other day or a few times a week. Too little addition to have an effect? Anything significant happen?

I am really interesting in hearing more of your perspective. I'm asking that you elaborate and clarify on all your points further (and more). Your perspective comes off as extremely grounded and since I'm kind of in a state of inner turmoil from figuring out what to do, how to eat, I'd really appreciate it if you go into your thoughts and experience around this subject more deeply.

Thanks!