Introduction to Rudolf Steiner's Philosophy of Freedom:

Rudolf Steiner: The Last Stage Of Human Evolution

Available on Amazon at cost.

What's the difference on a diet that is high in carbohydrates, low in carbohydrates and a moderate amount of carbohydrates?

I'm afraid that if I eat too much carbohydrates I become sluggish and sleepy; if I avoid carbohydrates my energy level is low and I eventually become irritable.

How can one avoid either of these extremes?

Would this require a consistent load of carbohydrates that do not have a high glycemic load (the impact upon blood sugar) spaced throughout the day? 

What do you think is ideal for yourself?

1. Stone admits that the Milk Diet was not a fail (which contradicts his choice of language for the title of his post) in a comment:

JT-
Like most things, it worked out and it didn't work out. To read this post and think that it was only negative with no positives would be mistaken and vice versa. On some level, it did feel healing, but the timing was definitely not good. After a long bout of inactivity and chugging milk during peak pollen season – I found it to be quite aggravating to be on a milk diet.

The question I was seeking to answer was can it bring body temperature and pulse rate up. The answer to that was clearly yes. On that level, it was a great success, and I imagine I'll be reaping the benefits of that for some time to come.

I think this just exemplifies Stone's sensationalist (attention grabbing) titles and style of writing. His comments are more constructive.

2. According to the quote that you provided Stone supposedly lost his hair from junk food, not milk:

I only seem to lose hair when my diet has junk in it (white sugar, white flour, vegetable oil).

However, the link that you provided didn't even work...Anyway, that quote is copied directly from your post.

3. In the post "Why Milk is Bad for You", Stone exclusively discusses pasteurized milk and not raw milk:

Milk does a body good right?  Well, real milk can, but what’s sold at the supermarket is worlds apart from what can be considered nutritious food.180 Degree Health wants you to understand, when it comes to modern pasteurized, homogenized,store-bought garbage, why milk is bad for you.

==

I appreciate your attempt at constructive criticism but it seems that the information you cited is quite weak.

That being said, I do not believe the Milk Diet is superior to RPD. You are misinterpreting the purpose of this thread and making false inferences. I believe in the Milk Diet as curative under certain conditions. Moreover, I definitely support the consumption of milk in moderation and under certain conditions (as the Mongols might consume it, for example).

Also, do not think that I'm outright supporting Stone as a health guru. I cited his post on the Milk Diet to demonstrate another source of support for the Milk Diet.

The purpose of this thread was to promote the Milk Diet. I found benefit in the Milk Diet and thought that others might, too.

Instinctive Eating
For the past few days I've been trying to eat whatever I prefer. Here's a short list:

Jam
Jelly
Custard
Cream cheese
Cheese
Milk
Ice cream
Raw honey
Egg yolks

(Aside: What's most frustrating is that none of these foods requires cooking, and my cravings were very natural for high caloric, nutritious foods. Only because our society is so backwards is it that I can't get any of the nutrition I require within my area in a raw, powerful state and I'm forced to sprint to the local grocery store for their processed and deficient counterparts!  )

After a few days of being completely adverse to the idea of eating meat I began to crave meat flavored with salt. Last night, I enjoyed a nice bit of lean, grass-fed meat generously garnished in salt and felt great satisfaction.

I observed that I simply was craving high caloric foods and in particular carbohydrates (in the form of jams, jellies and honey) and fat (in the form of dairy). Not once did I ever crave something of considerable protein, such as muscle meat. Nor did I crave raw or cooked plant foods. I even tried an apple to satisfy fructose cravings and found that it was not satisfying and I still preferred something sweeter with higher sugar content (yikes I must have been starving).

In regard to my craving for fat: This seems strange considering I had spent the last few days eating cow tongue and ribs with plenty of fat. I'm led to believe that I do no digest animal fats as well as I thought I did, much like Lex Rooker who prefers rendered fat. This seems plausible in that I always seemed to enjoy gelatin and bone broths much more and digested them well. I only believed I should reduce the amount that I eat of these foods because they are cooked.

I think this means that I need to re-adjust my diet in order to compensate for this handi-cap. I will increase my carbohydrate consumption and consumption of easily digestible fats, which are gelatin, bone broths and raw dairy (once I can finally get some).

I'm completely convinced that I'm closer than ever to a way of eating that will provide everything I need to heal and thrive. I only need to make small adjustments in order to supply a greater amount of carbohydrates and easily digestible fat. For the longest time I was scarfing fat because I thought I needed it and I was digesting it well, but I must have been mistaken.

The biggest common diet faux-pas is probably to dismiss the idea that we need not only easy abundant energy/fuel but likely animal proteins and saturated fats and various vitamins and minerals and such. Some that are actually more rare in our current natural world to swear off too many foods. Acknowledging that even mediocre quality usually works to some degree. But people often just don't even get those things because they arn't in the form of 'vegan', 'paleo' 'LC' etc... Or yeah when people want to totally make up constructs of how we are supposed to eat. This splinters into tons of other debates. Processed vs raw, consequences of this or that, many of which have points on either end but are ignored on both sides due to zealotry.

But these things have complex variables, which is why you have people and gurus doing a variety of things and none of them being consistent ideal templates for all, or really very few beating out the Twinkie guy or McDonalds guy in leaps and bounds. Then some people say they have no template and eat all natural but having any understanding of physiology and eating,  or understanding that these things always have their own blatantly destructive rules and dogmas, doesn't bode well for that either IMO.

I think alot of this just ties in with the other thread. Eating a nutrient rich diet + abundant energy sources can beat out an uplatable, nutrient sparse diet that avoids both nutrients and constant energy all under the umbrella of quality, or 'natural-ness' or whatever. Having a stable workable diet for basic living or healing is likely a pre-requite before making sure your diet avoids bad stuff. Add to that most people feel fantastic in the early stages of every diet change and then have the tendency to stick to things due to the same dogmas even through obvious problems. But other than that, maybe raw or paleo doesn't have these problems that the critics themselves over-zealously claim. Or, perhaps some people do need to remove 'bad stuff' before making any progress . Its hard to making sweeping statements about which is most important. Thats totally another splinter argument.

I completely agree with you. I only have trouble implementing a diet that is consistent with this logic.

I chose vegetarianism for philosophical beliefs () but also because cooked, conventional meat was killing me. Cutting that out helped for a good while, then a new imbalance popped up and I was mowin' on peanut butter and chocolate chips everyday for "protein" () and fats (which is legitimate, but I argue these are not good substitutes for dairy, red meat, and eggs).

And with raw animal foods it is the same story (or at least I think so), but on the opposite of the spectrum. The only problem is I don't want to eat vegetables anymore. I don't crave them and they aren't satisfying. There is some sort of balance or piece of nutrition that is absent. This is what leads me to believe that dairy is a good source of calories, vitamins and minerals.

One of my major confusions is that it seems logical that there is a food source which is just as you describe: abundant in nutrition and energy, and easily digestible. Of course I understand that the assumption that there is any one such food is foolish, but it seems plausible that there is such a combination that does meet these requirements. As a single food: milk might be the only whole food (as far as I can tell). Perhaps milk is not optimal, but good and better than most other single food sources--it is wholesome and very easily digestible. It seems plausible that the Milk Diet can be curative for many ailments but what one should incorporate after that or how one should eat after that is beyond me at this point. In terms of development, I feel that I need to retrace my path back to the "source" and then branch outwards to more complicated foods. In some ways I'm not responsible enough or rather not sensible enough to even responsibly care my body and mind. I'm certain that I caused some form of starvation because of my foolishness. It seems only logical that I need to make progression through regression. Then, once I've created stability and feel the urge for other foods, I could begin anew again. Or, am I just off on the deep end?

==

On another note: Part of me is becoming much more supportive of anopsology (instinctive eating). When I peruse the grocery store and choose what I want without thinking too much, I seem to do okay. Then, by habit I select the same foods and notice that I'm stuffing myself with food that I no longer need and am creating more harm than benefit. Moreover, I have become much more in tune with the instinct of taste; certain foods (pasteurized, processed, or not) will have a distinct taste then suddenly change after I've eaten a good portion of it. Perhaps one could practice instinctive eating even with processed foods but it would be dangerous because the manufacturing confuses our instincts. This experience leads me to believe that no one can tell me what I need and when. I was born with all the requisite tools to function optimally in this existence. The only problem is trying to wade through years of luxury which have dulled my senses and all the "intelligence" I've gained since exiting the womb. A third issue is availability; sometimes I'm craving something that just can't be sated by what's available around me.

Now you've gone ahead and left a giant window for people to say "hell if he had just eaten variety and more carbohydrates he wouldn't have any problems". I really hope this isn't the message you want to present, seeing since it hasn't solved any of your issues yet. Carbs may be the answer, but this is totally false within this context as 'the' problem.

True, but where does one fight a good source of carbohydrates that are raw and appetizing according to this way of eating? Trying to eat locally restricts most sources for carbohydrates. Milk is one of the few viable options regardless of location (to some extent).

The issue is being a zealot, and the proof of it lingering is you are willing to post about 8 different things you just read as solutions to yours and others health problems.

Great! Now I just need to find the diet that can fix fanaticism!   

Anyway, I think I'm just going to resolve like Matt Stone to eat whatever the hell I want for a while. I haven't been able to go near a piece of red meat for the past two days. I'm hoping eventually I'll be able to break this and learn from this experience.

If I were to make any sort of argument in defense of milk, it is that milk is a whole food. We can't deny that as mammals milk is the only source of nutrition during the beginning of our lives. Granted the milk of cows and goats is not identical to human beast milk but it is of similar value nutritionally.

I think you probably were fat-starved.  Also, you may not have been getting enough minerals. Eating enough fat and minerals (like calcium and magnesium from natural sources) is very good for sating the appetite.

I was mainly eating yolks, ribs and tongue the last few days before I started to collapse to ice cream. The fat just wasn't as satisfying as dairy. I think I wasn't absorbing it well even though I was eating ample amounts. My experience supports the belief that fat in dairy is one of the most readily absorbed fats--much easier than the fat of meat that has been frozen.

All I know is that I've been eating a shit ton of conventional, processed shit and for the most part I feel better then when I was when I was starving myself because I thought these foods to be more damaging than beneficial. Starve yourself enough and ice cream will be beneficial. If you don't think so, check out the similarities of French Vanilla soft-serve yogurt and human breast milk. Granted, I understand the flaw in using this website, but the similarities are pretty impressive considering the differences of these two foods, no?

Theres just plain innacuries or speculations with what you are saying tho, or, are even things I might agree with but are not exactly facts like you suggest.

True. I'm not implying anything that I've said is fact, though. My experience with starvation is just my own and I merely wish to discuss this as a possibility for others that might experiencing difficulty with this lifestyle.

I think my main qualm is that I foolishly perceived myself prepared to starve myself of carbohydrates and try to survive on mostly animal foods (my first mistake, given my state) and then do so without a consistent variety (my second mistake [this was mainly due to access, though, and not choice])

I don't think you are wrong with your choices (I don't know), I just think you should experitment more and/or flesh out your argument, as obviously your post is antagonistic, not backed up with much other than someone elses' opinions, and not totally fair to what people actually recommend.

My post is antagonistic. Perhaps everyone understands the value of variety and carbohydrates, but I didn't and this was a painful lesson to learn. I'd rather others be spared of my mistake. (Of course this was of my own accord, but) I allowed myself to become fearful of consuming certain foods even though I experienced explicit signs of depletion and weakness, very similar to my experience as a vegetarian. The only difference between vegetarianism and my present way of eating is that rather than depleting myself of animal foods I've began to starve myself of carbohydrates. Fundamentally the same mistake just different trappings. I thought I might be able to just eat whole animals and be just fine, but I need more and now I have to figure out what that is.

Also, I wouldn't say that my post is backed up with someone else's opinion. My intention was to use Stone's article as a source to defend the use of milk and the Milk Diet.

Lastly, I don't think I'm making much of an argument so much as I'm trying to raise awareness--as the title of this thread suggests.

One thing many people have noticed is that over-eating forces the body to concentrate its resources on digestion rather than diverting those resources towards healing.

True, but when the developed world is experiencing an obesity epidemic due to starvation I would argue that this is better than some of the other tactics that have been promoted here, such as starving the body of carbohydrates.

I personally was a wreck when I didn't feed my body with carbohydrates.

I doubt that eating more than 50% raw dairy products in one's diet is ultimately healthy either, long-term, even for those who do well on raw dairy.

Tell that to Mongolian tribes who rely on yaks for their milk. From what I understand milk is a staple of their diet that consists of 50% of their daily nutrition. Perhaps this isn't ideal for them, but this is how they've adapted to their present situation.

Matt Stone on the Milk Diet
I discovered an article by Matt Stone on the Milk Diet confirming my success and the satisfaction I felt from consuming raw dairy by the gallon every day.

Read about why the Milk Diet worked for me and could work for you.

Also, the experience of two others on a diet solely or primarily of raw dairy:

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/primal-diet/7-weeks-on-an-all-raw-milk-diet/

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/journals/first-raw-milkdairy-journal-(usa)/20/

I would like to thank the creator of this thread because I had not heard of Matt Stone nor such criticisms of the Paleo Diet. After researching more of Stone's opinions I've come to realize there is plenty of value for people such as I who have been struggling with this diet and because of stubbornness I have not been able to realize that I have been starving myself.

Although on 180 Health Stone's writing is a bit sensationalist and evasive (he writes a whole bunch without offering sensible tactics), his guest posts on other websites are much more direct and informative. For those (such as myself) who have a low basal temperature due to starvation, Stone has simple suggestions:

1. Eat as much nutritious food as you can every day. Emphasize the more calorie-dense unrefined carbohydrates like root vegetables, fruit, and grains in particular, but also eat a satisfying amount of meat, fat, dairy products (milk is incredible for body temperature), and whatever else that you find enjoyable. But keep it as nutritious and unprocessed as possible.

2. Eat beyond appetite. This is key. Eating more than you want to eat is what forces your body to get out of its low metabolism rut.

3. Go at least 12 hours straight per day without food – you don’t want to be overeating for more than half the day. So if you eat dinner at 7pm, have breakfast at 7am. I believe this practice can make the body more responsive to the hormone leptin, probably the most important hormone in fertility (because it raises thyroid and progesterone).

4. Get as much sleep as possible. Sleep is an incredibly powerful tool for raising metabolism.

5. Avoid vigorous exercise. This is not a permanent recommendation obviously. You can resume getting more vigorous exercise once your body temperature is fully restored.

6. Emphasize saturated fats over unsaturated fats. Dairy products, red meat, and coconut products are the best source of dietary saturated fats. You should eat these preferentially over nuts, seeds, vegetable oils, avocado, and other plant fats – as well as pork and poultry, when possible.

7. De-stress. While eating a lot, sleeping a lot, and avoiding excessive exercise is inherently de-stressing, it also pays to spend time doing something that you find leisurely or enjoyable and mentally and physically relaxing, which is highly individual. Massage and sunbathing would be my two personal favorites!

A diet low in carbohydrates did not work for Stone and may not work for several people, however (as KD points out) some may actually thrive on this diet, as KD and Sabertooth both demonstrate.

I, for one, have had a terrible time during my experimentation with diet because it has lead to an even greater starvation than before. Whereas before I was starving myself of animal foods (while I was a vegetarian), I'm now starving myself of a list of other things as I continue to mow on pound after pound of ground beef and raw eggs. Even after eating the entirety of several animals (such as Sabertooth recommends), I still wasn't able to satisfy some deep hunger--a great sign of starvation.

I second KD's opinion, quoted here:

My guess is, a fairer view of what he says is if you fall below the line of what are obvious indicators of poor health, your purism, naturalism, localism, spiritualism, etc... Isnt working. Period. The key problem is, no matter how impossible it is to actually diagree with that, people will simply choose to disagree with that and just cite more of their dogmas and swear all sorts of reasons why others are wrong. But ultimately he's like every other diet, film, or social critic. He - like most people- has some masive bias against diets that did not work for him, and thus "don't work" (sound familiar?) for anyone even when they do. This part is totally false, if your actual version of paleo/healthy eating fulfills your known needs in actual analysis, and gives optimal results, or at least fares better than others without excuses.

Conventional Ice Cream and Kefir
I was craving something rich and creamy and was not feeling satisfied with meat or eggs. I downed two pints of ice cream last night and then another two this morning. After that, I downed a quart of pasteurized goat milk kefir. I feel good, too! This could be due to all the sugar, but I'm uncertain.

I generally do terribly on pasteurized stuff but kefir is better than un-fermented milk and ice cream is loaded with just the good stuff (cream and sugars). For all the nay-sayers out there: I think there is something to dairy that is a very powerful food.

Abuse and use anything in life and it will lead to imbalance--this includes meat! That I didn't double over with gas or indigestion and slept soundly last night from a quart of ice cream and a quart of pasteurized kefir suggests that the conventional nature of these foods were negligible in light of my hunger for whatever was in those foods. I'm convinced that animal foods (meat, milk, eggs, etc.) make up a healthy diet. Perhaps I will eventually learn the value of plant foods, but I'm not quite there yet.

I'm definitely becoming more aware of my cravings and how to satisfy them, whether this be foods rich in carbohydrates, starch, fiber, liquid, cholesterol, lipids, and so forth. It feels good to be able to understand one's instinctive cravings and be able to nurture them successfully. The worst feeling in the world is to feel hungry and chow down on a certain food and still feel unsatisfied, but full.

For now, I will experiment with conventional foods (like ice cream) more and observe how these foods satisfy my cravings in absence of higher quality foods (such as raw milk). I have a hankering for dairy and I'm not going to ignore it. The fat of dairy is so much more digestible and satisfying than the dry, brittle fat that collects around the organs of animals.

Liquid Intake
I'm not sure what's going on but I'm hardly drinking water and am not thirsty. I experimented with apple cider vinegar and am still supplementing with iodine and fermented cod liver oil (rich in vitamin D). I'm not sure which of these three is responsible for the change but I've been drinking just eight ounces of water with one drop of iodine and one teaspoon of FCLO daily. I only begin to become thirsty for that single cup of water at the very end of the day just before I fall asleep. Conventional recommendations to drink eight cups of water every day seems in excess! I just think of people in the past: How could they possibly drink that much water and function, let alone have access to that much water. It seems much more likely that they required far less water and operated optimally on small amounts. However, this brings up the contention of our time: Quality and quantity. We're in a period in which food quantity is abundant but quality is perverse, which explains conventional recommendations such as the one I just mentioned.

Fermented Cod Liver Oil
FCLO is truly a super food. I've only consumed one bottle and feel great. It must be the vitamin D, but there is probably a list of other beneficial qualities that I'm unaware of.

Uropathy
I stopped relying on urine for hydration. I no longer feel that it is necessary.