How to keep PTH (parathyroid hormone) low

[Gerson]

Hi everyone,

I posted something here a few years ago when I was very sick, but I'm better for the biggest part now.
There's been useful information here, so thanks for that. The problem I have had with eating lots of meats (with or without fats, doesn't make much difference) is that I got soft tissue calcification, my guess is this happens from higher PTH.
My question is how can you keep the parathyroid hormone low when you're eating a lot of muscle meat (phosphorus) and no dairy (calcium).
As phosphorus stimulates PTH and calcium antagonizes that effect. I know magnesium, vitamin D can lower it too, but in the presence of a lot of phosphorus, calcium seems to be needed. So my question is if anyone has researched this from a rawpaleo point of view, I'm interested in any research. I value your opinions and experiences, but I'm looking specifically for science and studies you have come across.

Sources for my claims:
Phosphate stimulates PTH in human tissue, thus causing soft tissue calcification :1,2 , Albright F, Bauer W, Claflin D, Cockrill JR. Studies in parathyroid physiology. III. The effect of phosphate ingestion in clinical hyperparathyroidism. J Clin Invest 1932;11:411-435
CrossRef | Web of Science | Medline

Broadus AE, Magee JS, Mallette LE, et al. A detailed evaluation of oral phosphate therapy in selected patients with primary hyperparathyroidism. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1983;56:953-961

Calcium inhibits PTH secretion in specific and non specific cases in human tissues: Euh.. I'm not allowed to post external links ? (R-568 is a calcium mimic, acts like calcium or on the same receptor)

(There's many more studies, but this information is probably not new to anyone who knows some physiology. However I can provide more studies if anyone would like that.)

[eveheart]

My question is how can you keep the parathyroid hormone low when you're eating a lot of muscle meat (phosphorus) and no dairy (calcium).

Your assumption that "paleo" means eating muscle meat and excluding calcium doesn't match up to my understanding of the paleolithic diet. Paleolithic man ate the whole animal. While I've never quantified my calcium intake, I know that every vertebrate animal I eat contains edible calcium. Greens and other vegetables also contain calcium. My favorite snack is tiny sun-dried anchovies.

[Gerson]

Hi eveheart, thanks for the reply

I don't think it is an assumption but a fact that most or all animal foods or tissue, except for dairy, has a very high ratio of P (phosphorus) to Ca( calcium), a ratio that stimulates PTH. This goes for muscle meats, as well as for organ meats and the rest of the tissues of the animal except the bones. In fact the highest phosphorus concentration is an organ meat; liver, it has no calcium and lots of P, but its fat soluble vitamins probably help calcium regulation. I don't think everyone here is preparing the bones, which could be a solution. Greens and vegetables in the amounts eaten here don't nearly make a difference to improve the ratio of P to Ca.

Only thing I can think of is fructose, it could be helping the fruit/meat eaters here as fructose inhibits and regulates phophorus absorption, prevents some of its negative effects.

[TylerDurden]

If this bothers you, feel free to eat mostly raw plant food like a few here do.

[eveheart]

I can recall reading calcium discussions in this forum. I have learned about filing bones with a rasp, eating small fish whole, making uncooked bone broth, fermenting with bones, and eating insects.

I don't think everyone here is preparing the bonesj...

I don't understand your "everyone here" thinking? Why use consensus to determine what our pre-agricultural ancestors ate?

Only thing I can think of is fructose, it could be helping the fruit/meat eaters here as fructose inhibits and regulates phophorus absorption, prevents some of its negative effects.

True, there are some locations where meat-eaters had a year-round supply of fructose, but that wouldn't be the "solution" for most of the globe. Nevertheless, that might be why some people swear by dipping their meat in honey. I just can't imagine taking down a meaty animal and then stopping to climb a tree for some honey.

By the way, I apologize for intruding on your discussion of nutrient ratios. I only spoke up because I thought you were filleting out some calcium-rich bones.

[Gerson]

I don't understand your "everyone here" thinking? Why use consensus to determine what our pre-agricultural ancestors ate?

Since we can't be sure or determine what our ancestors ate, I prefer to get experimental and science data from people who don't get soft tissue calcification eating more animal products here and now. Maybe they have other tools and foods to keep PTH down that I haven't come across yet. I see vitamin D supplementation is mentioned here often.
I would just like to fix a problem without introducing too many possibly hazardous foods, like opioids in dairy. I'm curious to know if someone here has thought about or fixed a similar issue or not.
Thank you for the tips filing bones and fermenting bones etc.

If this bothers you, feel free to eat mostly raw plant food like a few here do.

I could try that, although too much fruit makes me a little less stress tolerant.

[van]

you might consider eating moderate amounts of animal protein, and more often.  And by including enough vegetative matter to vary your diet.  Excess anything is more the cause than singling out any particular food.   Most eat far in excess of their amino acid needs, thus causing a toxic burden on the rest of their body.   Or, it's easy to get 'hooked' on getting your energy from the conversion of excess protein, as opposed to eating enough fat or low gycemic carbs. 

[sabertooth]

There was this false view that people who ate too much red meat would accumulate excess iron, because Red meat is typically high in iron....or that the breakdown of too much protein would cause Gout....or that people shouldn't eat thyroid gland if they have hyper thyroid....along with many other baseless assumptions which have been totally discredited by the personal experiences of Raw Paleo Dieters.

There are methods and mechanisms by which the body mitigates imbalances of its own accord, without having to micromanage micro-nutrient  intake. Many of these balancing acts performed by the body are not clearly understood by modern science.....never the less by hook or by crook the human body has proven itself most adaptable to a number of different extremes which according to the established nutritional pseudosciences should not be possible.

[van]

I would say experiment for yourself.  And determine in the long run how your body feels by not using protein as a fuel source.   It may be difficult to change eating habits though.