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Offline xEdgexRNx

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Meal plan?
« on: May 25, 2009, 08:47:25 am »
Hi!

I'm new to the whole this diet and can't seem to find any specific diet guidelines or meal plans.  What do you typically eat per day?  Cals? Pro? Fat? Fiber? Carbs?

If you can list what u generally eat for each meal, that would offer SO much guidance for me.

Thanks!

-Shelby :-)

Offline Josh

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2009, 10:05:25 pm »
Hi there.

I'm a newbie too, but I believe the reason you won't find a definitive guide is that it's not a diet plan in the sense of the 'south beach diet' where you can find a book telling you how to plan your meals.

It's still very much an open question how much plant food it's best to eat if at all, and what proportions of fat protein and carbs.

I can understand where you're coming from...I went on the internet about 2 years ago to find out what a healthy diet was. I thought I'd get it sorted out in a couple of weeks and could move on to something else. Instead I found out that all the standard advice is controversial and loads of highly educated people are disagreeing about even the most basic issues like whether to eat mostly plants or animals, or whether wholegrains are panacea or poison.

I think you just have to keep reading and experiment.

Probably best to start off with a fair few carbs, then dial in more fat and get your body used to fat as a fuel. Fasting seems to help with this as well.

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2009, 02:19:07 am »
Hi Shelby. I try to eat two meals a day, a "lunch" and a "dinner." They both consist of similar stuff which is usually close to a pound of lean muscle from bison or ox and then a cup or so of a fat source such as suet, hide fat or bone marrow from those same two animals. That is the foundation of my diet plan. For a while I was eating berries and pineapple slices and other fruits like that but realized that when you look at the cost for what you're getting it's very expensive to eat those fruits every day.

I'm undecided on the zero carb issue and I don't measure amount of grams of fat and protein I'm eating in a day, or calories, but I would guess that my intake is 70% or greater fat and the rest mostly protein with some or sometimes no carbs. My calories are probably between 2000 and 3000 daily. I'm not a believer in the calorie in calorie out idea of weight maintenance as I see every day people who eat the same amount of calories but are different weights, or even people who eat less calories and are heavier than people who eat more.

Since I saw you want to bulk in another thread, I would suggest to plan your meals around what I proposed and then add other foods as needed or desired. My diet is very inexpensive when I eat this way as raw fat sources are sold very cheap.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2009, 06:16:22 am »
My meal plan is:

Breakfast:
- Fruit in season (I follow the seasons, local organic)
- In season lately: indian mango (green), duhat, guava, papaya, avocado, coconuts
- I add raw duck eggs or raw animal food if I'm going to be physically expending energy in the morning. (like going on a long drive)

Lunch
- Raw animal food (beef and its liver, oysters, ocean fish, clams, shrimp, squid, goat) / whatever is available fresh and appetizing I can get in the wet market

Dinner
- If I pigged out at lunch, I don't eat dinner, or graze on fruits while the family has dinner for socializing.
- Raw animal food

Veggies get in when during Saturdays I may find appealing celery or some other organic veggie in the saturday market.

Variety, my hobby lately is going to the wet market (3-4x a week) and I like tasting different varieties of animal foods and various fruits.  I've always liked variety even during my SAD days.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 07:54:45 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2009, 04:19:49 pm »
I'm new to the whole this diet and can't seem to find any specific diet guidelines or meal plans.  What do you typically eat per day?  Cals? Pro? Fat? Fiber? Carbs?
If you can list what u generally eat for each meal, that would offer SO much guidance for me.

Shelby,
I've answered this question many times and again recently on another post asking what our daily meals looked like.    Thought I'd address your question in a little more detail as it can seem overwhelming to someone just starting this adventure.


Cals? - I don't think most of us count or worry about calories.  They are essentially meaningless when eating this way. I spent many months recording the exact amount of calories I was eating and it averaged between 2,100 and 2,500 per day.  Some days I'm satisfed with 1,500.  On one occasion I ate 5,000.  I just eat until I'm satisfied.

Pro?  - As long as you eat meat and fat at each meal until you are satisfied you will more than meet your protein needs - but most of us average between 100 and 150 grams protein per day I imagine.

Fat? - for those of us following a true paleo diet, most of our energy comes from fat.  I'd say that we average around 150 to 200 grams fat per day as we want to get between 60% and 80% of our calories from saturated animal fat.

Fiber? - many of us avoid this like the plague. It should not be needed on this diet. There has been a good bit of research that Tyler Durden has run across in the past few years that actually implicates plant fiber in many of our modern digestive tract diseases like IBS, Crohn's, Ulcerative Colitis.  In other words, if we include carbs in our diet, we don't eat them to get fiber.

Carbs? - This is a hotly contested subject.  The truth is, carbs are not needed at all, and I believe the fewer you eat the better.  I eat Zero Carbs and there are many who do well eating this way, though it does take a few months of adaptation.  Others are heavy carb eaters and they too are happy with their choice.  One thing to be aware of is that the carb sources available to us today in the supermarket are nothing like what is in the wild.  Thinking that you'll just eat those "natural" fruits and veggies is far from what this way of eating is all about.  If you want a clear example just compare a Crabappple (which is fairly close to the wild version), with a Golden Delicious, Granny Smith, or any other apple in the supermarket.  Or go out into the yard and pull up a dandylion and compare it to a carrot, beet, or parsnip.  Wild fruits tend to be sour, small, and mostly seed.  Wild vegetables tend to be tough, stringy, and bitter.

If you want a simple way to start on this dietary adventure I'd suggest something like this:

Eat 2 or 3 meals per day - whatever you are comfortable with.  I only eat one meal per day, but most eat 2 meals I think, and a few still eat their 3 squares by the clock.

At each meal eat fatty meats, fish, poultry, sea food -any meat (most of us have found red meat and the associated fat is best).  Eat your fill - until you are completely satisfied.  Prepare the meats with as little cooking as you are comfortable with, with a goal to eventually eat all your food raw.  If the best you can do now is to cook your meat Medium, then cook it Medium.  The point is to eat meat and fat until you are fully satisfied.  Do this at each meal.  Most of us started by adding spices like garlic powder, pepper, and salt to our meat as this is what we were used too and it helped us transition to eating our food raw.  Over time most of us reduce or stop using the seasonings as we find we no longer need them.  Just stay away from the catsup, bbq sauce, and other sugary junk and stick with dry seasonings.

Once a day (separate from your meals) have either a small green salad (1 to 2 cups max) with a simple lemon juice or vinegar dressing OR a medium sized piece of fruit (about a cup), but not both, as an afternoon or bed time snack. Treat nuts as though they are fruit and if you eat them then a small handfull will take the place of your salad or fruit snack for the day.

When you are thirsty drink water.  Don't worry about the silly nonsense of not drinking during meals.  If you are thirsty, drink - before meals, during meals, after meals, whatever.  Thirst is your body telling you it needs water.  Your body is far smarter than the diet gurus who make up silly rules.

That's it.

Avoid all grains and products made from grains (including their oils).  Avoid all beans (including soy beans) and products made from them (including their oils).  Avoid all sugar and products containing sugar.  Avoid dairy products - most of us have found that once we removed the big offenders like grains from our diet, we then noticed a lot of little problems caused by dairy - even raw dairy. The only dairy most of us still eat is butter and that is just to get the added fat when eating out in a restruant.  Most of us do fine with butter,  but some have found problems with it also.

Most of us still eat eggs.  I eat them 2 or 3 times per year, but they are not a significant part of my diet.  There was nothing like our modern chicken eggs in paleo times.  Most eggs in the wild are small, very seasonal, and would be in various stages of development.  I think it is folly to believe that our paleo ancestors ate the equivalent of 6 or 7 chicken eggs per day as their normal diet.  There just weren't any egg ranches to supply such things.  During the early spring you might run across an occasional nest but that's about it.

Well, that's my 2 cents.  Take it for what it's worth.

Lex

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2009, 07:59:29 pm »
Hi!

I'm new to the whole this diet and can't seem to find any specific diet guidelines or meal plans.  What do you typically eat per day?  Cals? Pro? Fat? Fiber? Carbs?

If you can list what u generally eat for each meal, that would offer SO much guidance for me.

Thanks!

-Shelby :-)
Cals:- No one really bothers about cals. Some claim that 80% fat by calorie is necessary. I find, however, that far less is required than that.

Pro:- No RPDer really bothers with limiting protein. The whole "protein is dangerous" myth was invented by vegans.Utter nonsense. That said, do try, when eating muscle-meats to not only go for the lean muscle-meats like turkey but also buy fatty, raw muscle-meats like mutton etc.


Fat:- This is reasonably important. Because most RPDers often get sold meats which have had the fat cut off before sale, they often feel the need to add in some extra raw suet, raw marrow or raw tongue. That said, I've managed to get hold of some very fatty muscle-meats like raw mutton.

Here's a sample of what I may eat over the course of a year - some items are only seasonal or very rarely eaten, others like the wild hare carcasses I eat for most or all of the year). All are raw, most are 100% grassfed/organic or wildcaught :-


wild hare carcasses-plus most organs/ leg of lamb/mutton plus lamb organs, venison organs(tongue, liver/kidney), goose-/quail-/duck-/chicken-eggs, sea-urchin-eggs, swordfish, giant tiger prawns, lobster, crab,oysters,mussels, kingfish, shark, beef organs(ie liver, kidney, tongue, lung(not recommended!), heart, thymus/pancreas, suet, marrow), free-range turkey breast-fillets(whole goose and whole turkey at Christmas), wild boar muscle-meats/organs(see beef organs for details), horse-muscle-meat, heather honeycomb, samphire, blueberries, cherries, raspberries, bananas, wild mallard duck and organs, limpets, goat muscle-meat, mackerel, scallops, pigs' brains(grainfed, though); saltmarsh-fed lamb, heather-fed lamb, radishes, mandarines,apples, pears.

Re fibre:- Well, I see no reason for fibre. Admittedly, when eating only raw animal food for days, I do find that bowel-movements can almost be nonexistent unless I go in for overeating. That said, I never get the bodged, constipated feeling I got with cooked-animal-foods, so I reckon that fibre isn't necessary.

Re carbs:- For general physical performance, I do recommend carbs- most RVAFers tend to something like 5-25% carbs, judging from reports, but start with whatever feels right to you, at first. You can always change percentages, later. 

The general rule I have is to have 1 large meal a day,, consisting of a main meat/fat meal with raw carbs added 30 minutes before or after the meat-meal(I don't have raw carbs every day, but quite often). That seems to have the best effect re energy-levels. Not all people do well on that and may prefer the usual 3-meal a day routine. For my part, I find that I get more constant energy-levels if I do the 1 large meal a day(afternoon or evening depending on whether it's a weekend or weekday). There's also the warrior diet routine where you eat fruit in the mornings, and 1 meat/.fat meal in the evenings.


*I also recommend occasional fasting. I notice, again and again, that my appearance etc. looks healthier(re gleaming skin etc.) when I do an occasional whole-day fast every so often. I highly recommend it(but not if you're suffering from adrenal-related issues, perhaps).
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Offline xEdgexRNx

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2009, 02:39:32 am »
Thanks for all the great advice!  U all are very helpful and informative!

I tried ZC for a short time, but was not impressed by it.  Thus, I am adding in more carbs (no grains).  Here is what I am currently eating... is this ok?

Before workout:  3 jumbo eggs + a fruit (either apple, peach, applesauce)... I make a smoothie with this

After workout:  sweet potato (3oz) or butternut squash + 5oz fish + 1-2 TB coconut oil + 1 TB apple cider vinegar

Lunch:  Raw carrot + 5 oz fish + 2 TB coconut oil + apple cider vinegar  (food processor)
           OR     
           5oz ground beef (80/20), 3 oz fish, 1-2 TB coconut oil , 1 carrot (I blend together and fry it lightly)
         
Dinner:  5 oz chicken or fish + stir fry veggies + 2 TB coconut oil
           OR
           Chicken leg + snap peas

Snack:  1-2 jumbo soft boiled eggs, 4 oz prune juice, 1-2 prunes

Is this ok?  What should be changed?

Thanks SO much!

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2009, 04:04:37 am »
That looks like a bodybuilders cutting menu to me. It's not very raw paleo, but if it works for you then that's what's important.

Personally I would add more red meat and fat at the expense of the chicken.

Offline moxiekat

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 04:32:03 am »
I regret being so indelicate but there's something that you all need to know about xEdgexRNx (Shelby). 

She registered at a zero carb forum the same day she registered here -- 25 May.  Lex participates on this other forum and is an awesome contributor to the discussions there...which is why I am posting here with a warning.
 
Shelby was much more active at the other site -- over 100 posts in about 12 days' time, mainly to her "journal."  She was helped in the same manner each of you have responded here.  The answers were never enough -- she posted/re-posted the same questions, manically agreed with the advice received, then, literally in some cases, an hour or two later would post the same question...only in a more urgent, desperate tone. 

She noted here at RawPaleo that she is 78 pounds due to a gastrointestinal illness.  At our forum, she divulged she suffers from anorexia.  She received very specific attention from those members there who have overcome eating disorders -- not just in the open forum but via PMs as well.

I am not a medically trained professional, and I do not mean to be unkind, but she exhibits the traits defined in the definition of neurotic and will absorb much of your time to no good end.  She does not need to be on any internet fora seeking nutrition/health advice.  Along with the coddling she received at our forum from some very tender hearts, she also received some tough advice to get off of the world wide web and seek medical help.

Last night, she reappeared at our forum and let loose a tirade of unstable ranting.  The owner of the forum promptly deleted her entire journal.

So, I post this in the hopes that you, here, do not *feed what ails her* by answering her questions.  She needs professional help.

Lex can contact Charles to get the details, if he so desires.

Sorry.  :(

Offline wodgina

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 06:38:16 am »
It had come to our attention that she had cross posted and seams to of disregarded most of our advice looking at the new meal plan.

My opinion of 'Professional help' is that is useless and often harmful for neurosis. You can't out think neurotic thoughts with CBT.


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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2009, 06:55:54 am »
Thanks for all the great advice!  U all are very helpful and informative!

I tried ZC for a short time, but was not impressed by it.  Thus, I am adding in more carbs (no grains).  Here is what I am currently eating... is this ok?

Before workout:  3 jumbo eggs + a fruit (either apple, peach, applesauce)... I make a smoothie with this

After workout:  sweet potato (3oz) or butternut squash + 5oz fish + 1-2 TB coconut oil + 1 TB apple cider vinegar

Lunch:  Raw carrot + 5 oz fish + 2 TB coconut oil + apple cider vinegar  (food processor)
           OR     
           5oz ground beef (80/20), 3 oz fish, 1-2 TB coconut oil , 1 carrot (I blend together and fry it lightly)
         
Dinner:  5 oz chicken or fish + stir fry veggies + 2 TB coconut oil
           OR
           Chicken leg + snap peas

Snack:  1-2 jumbo soft boiled eggs, 4 oz prune juice, 1-2 prunes

Is this ok?  What should be changed?

Thanks SO much!


I do not like eating coconut oil, I'd rather massage it on my skin.
I don't like prunes either, they are not as good as they are marketed to be.
Stop blending / mixing / eating multiple foods all the time. 
Try mono eating... one food at one time... that will be easy on digestion.
For example, you decide your meal will be beef... just eat beef until you are full.
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Offline Roselene

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2009, 05:34:50 pm »
wild hare carcasses-plus most organs/ leg of lamb/mutton plus lamb organs, venison organs(tongue, liver/kidney), goose-/quail-/duck-/chicken-eggs, sea-urchin-eggs, swordfish, giant tiger prawns, lobster, crab,oysters,mussels, kingfish, shark, beef organs(ie liver, kidney, tongue, lung(not recommended!), heart, thymus/pancreas, suet, marrow), free-range turkey breast-fillets(whole goose and whole turkey at Christmas), wild boar muscle-meats/organs(see beef organs for details), horse-muscle-meat, heather honeycomb, samphire, blueberries, cherries, raspberries, bananas, wild mallard duck and organs, limpets, goat muscle-meat, mackerel, scallops, pigs' brains(grainfed, though); saltmarsh-fed lamb, heather-fed lamb, radishes, mandarines,apples, pears.

    Why isn't lung recommended?  I heard in food animals it's the first part of the animal to get tumors.  Is that why you say "not recommended!"?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Meal plan?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2009, 04:49:41 pm »
    Why isn't lung recommended?  I heard in food animals it's the first part of the animal to get tumors.  Is that why you say "not recommended!"?

No, it's  not that. It's that lung is very bland in taste and needs constant chewing being virtually all cartilage. I don't view it as being that nutritious either.
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