Worms in my fresh, raw, wild salmon from whole foods--a short video showing them

[MaximilianKohler]

So when you cook the exact same meat that you are eating raw and don't change anything else in your diet there is a significant difference? Because that's what I've been toying with to try and see if it was the raw or whether it was the quality of the meat and mono meals and lots of fruit, etc., and so far I cannot tell a difference between cooking and eating raw besides getting diarrhea when eating raw now...

[bookittyrun]

Hey guys I got about 4 pounds of raw fresh wild salmon from whole foods. The fish there was whole except it was degutted and deheaded. They filleted it for me and I got a good price, that's why I got 4 pounds worth as they were only selling the entire fish.

So I ate it and got abdominal discomfort. Then the following day I cut some more but intuitively guessed there could be worms. So I cut it up very well but couldn't find any. I kept looking and then I found some. Then I marinated a few pieces in lemon juice to see if that did anything and found some more. All in all I only inspected about 1 pounds worth, as I already had eaten 2 pounds (and consequently gotten a stomach ache) and I didn't inspect the last one ( I just steamed it becasue I didn't want to throw it away)

yes, it's an old thread...  maybe i read this wrong?  but if i sat down and ate 2lbs of fish in one day, i'd get a stomach ache, too...   
(love this smilie!)

i think the best rule is to be confident in what you're buying.  i have had zero (known) issues with raw anything, whether frozen or fresh.  accepting the fact that anything you consume can have adverse effects, should bring a little peace of mind...  i've heard the majority of salmonella cases come from vegetables, not chicken or meats...  that said, you are at a "risk" for contracting anything, from anywhere...  no doubt you have eaten things unknowingly, and relied on your body or immune system to take care of abnormalities (or maybe more normal than you wish to admit).  i started eating raw, expecting to get sick...  so every day, i am pleasantly surprised...  i no longer eat foods, being fearful of consuming wormy "friends".  every meal preparation is a time of eager anticipation for ingesting something delicious...  squirmy garnish, or not.

if people worried as much about the quality of the air they breath, we'd all stop breathing.

[Poncho]

So when you cook the exact same meat that you are eating raw and don't change anything else in your diet there is a significant difference? Because that's what I've been toying with to try and see if it was the raw or whether it was the quality of the meat and mono meals and lots of fruit, etc., and so far I cannot tell a difference between cooking and eating raw besides getting diarrhea when eating raw now...

Yes, the exact same thing.
I literally had negative quality of life for over 2 years since I was in a car accident.
I only went deeper and deeper into depression with no sign of getting better.
Every meal I ate worsened me, but I was so skinny I knew I had to eat.

I was out in BC, (fresh wild organic food), and my health only got worse.
Then I decided to just do it, just start listening to people on this forum.

Instant results.
I was hooked.
I had originally planned on transitioning gradually to raw paleo, but within 4 days eating that way I had quickly progressed to 100% raw paleo.

The cooked meat would literally set me back so much that I couldn't justify eating any of it anymore.
I have tried cooked meat one or two times since then, the results remain the same.
bad.

If the meat has parasites and worms in it naturally, then I'd say my body needs them.
I'd say it loves them.

[CitrusHigh]

It is now however many days later and no health complaints at all, let alone anything worm related. Wish you all could see this photo of the monkfish they had sitting in the seafood case next to the meat, the lady at the counter joked that it hadn't evolved in a few million years, I thought she was quite right =)

Score one more for the concept that parasites might not be the boogymen we have been led to believe, make your own experiments and conclusions though, you have to live with your choices!

JK, remembered how to attach photos from drive...enjoy!

I would like to add that this fish was sourced out of the atlantic and chances are good it came from polluted waters, so that it had so many (there were lots) worms points to a less than stellar environment...

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

 bharminder
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Re: Worms in my fresh, raw, wild salmon from whole foods--a short video showing them
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2010, 11:21:50 am »
Quote
At what point should I consider a piece of fish to be unacceptable? 1 worm, 2 worms, 3 worms?

REPLY:
I found NINE Anisakis worms in my recent piece of middle cut Cod.   When these were removed, under bright sunlight, it tasted great, and some of it went on to become high fish which tasted even greater, LOL.   Absolutely no stomach pains or discomfort afterwards, and confidence that any which got through, while surviving all our stomach acids due to their own protective coating, would die eventually and be expelled.

[political atheist]

I'm actually switching from raw paleo to cooked paleo because of similar issues.

I passed some worms that I think were tapeworms and I've been getting diarrhea from a wide variety of meats and eggs. I started this diet after reading Aajonus Vonderplanitz's book, but now I think his claims regarding nearly zero risk of issues with bacteria, parasites, and food poisoning are irresponsibly dangerous and bogus.

I think parasites and other food poisoning issues may be why humans started cooking our meat in the first place.

you got rid of the worms?

i think the problem is only with raw meat! raw eggs, milk and dairy is ok IMO. no worms in there

[political atheist]

Guys, my body shuts down if I eat cooked meat.
Doesn't matter how organic the meat is, if it's cooked Ill be in pain. I can suffer for days from one serving of cooked meat.
I am very weak in the digestive system, so I basically use my body as a testing ground.
Raw meat can not be matched. It is the holy grail of health.
If you're getting worms and whatnot, find better sources.
I even ate 100% raw meat for a few months, nothing else,
my health only improved. Dramatically.

If parasites are inevitable with raw meat, I will gladly take them on.
But so far I can only report a crazy detox and remarkable results.

how much raw meat were u eating per day? you did not eat anything else, just raw meat?

[FRANCIS HOWARD BOND]

These worms belong to fish and cannot survive indefinitely in your body.   Anisakis survive stomach acid and can burrow into the stomach lining where they die after a few days or a week or two as they cannot enjoy our flesh.   They can be painful, as I have found with Cod where they are fairly common, once found nine, took them out and eat the fish without problems.   Candling the fish with bright light can reveal the coiled up critters so they can be removed before being eaten.    Very unpleasant while it lasts, but generally self curing if you have an unfortunate encounter with these horrors.

[sabertooth]

Im not meaning for this to get personal, sometimes my raw passion gets misconstrued as impertinence, this is not my intent. Yet all civility aside there is an obtuse attitude in many of these interchanges of which I do find offensive to my sensibilities. It is provoked when other people claim that my own personal experience is somehow not valid or worthy of consideration without being backed up by an authoritative citation.

I have attempted to contact people with "proper credentials" and have attempted to communicate many of my own experiences to anyone who will listen only to be snubbed by those who are quick to dismiss ideas that do not fit their own preconceived views. I will be the first to say that Raw meat based diets may not be for everyone, there are trade offs to cooking and many people do fine on cooked diets, I am not a foodist fascist by any means, and am a totally libertarian about allowing people personal choice to live how they chose ,but regardless of this difference of ideals I will insist that there is a great cultural bias and general misunderstanding into the nature of these subjects which is preventing people from being able to make well informed dietary "dissensions".

If I may continue with the subject of cookings effect on bio-availability. There is this preconceived notion that breaking down the proteins by cooking which allows for quicker assimilation, is a positive thing without drawback. I would like to draw attention to a few contentions to this assumption. Raw fats and proteins are "suppose" to take longer to digest and assimilate, carnivores in nature will eat large portions of flesh and then not have to eat again for long periods of time. The body slowly breaks down the food and absorbs its nutrition over time to give a slow and steady supply of energy. When you consume cooked proteins and carbs that are already partially broken down they are assimilated far to quickly for the metabolic and filtration systems of the body to optimally cope with. This leads to glucose spikes in the case of refined carbs, and protein spikes in cooked meats. These protein spikes, high AGE levels, heat degraded EPA/DHA and a myriad of other contamination from aberrant agricultural practices, are what is to blame for all the bad press meat based diets have received from the establishment. For the average healthy individual these negative effects can be coped with to a certain degree, and also are mitigated by a number of modern practices of processing, as well as eating smaller portions many times a day.....but not everyone is the same and many people who do become overloaded with AGEs, or experience high blood sugars, or elevated triglycerides may benefit greatly from eating uncooked and unrefined foods which are absorbed much slower and do not cause as drastic spike in blood glucose, AGE proteins or Deranged fats.

[jibrael]

My 2 year old eats a little red meat and marrow as well as oysters and drinks eggs AV style, she is beautiful and thriving, my 8 month old is eating pea sized chunks of meat and fat along with my homemade formula and she is a complete butterball(they are the hardyest healthyest children I know, no exaggeration)

What is your homemade Formula for kids?

[van]

[noae]

Im not meaning for this to get personal, sometimes my raw passion gets misconstrued as impertinence, this is not my intent. Yet all civility aside there is an obtuse attitude in many of these interchanges of which I do find offensive to my sensibilities. It is provoked when other people claim that my own personal experience is somehow not valid or worthy of consideration without being backed up by an authoritative citation.

I have attempted to contact people with "proper credentials" and have attempted to communicate many of my own experiences to anyone who will listen only to be snubbed by those who are quick to dismiss ideas that do not fit their own preconceived views. I will be the first to say that Raw meat based diets may not be for everyone, there are trade offs to cooking and many people do fine on cooked diets, I am not a foodist fascist by any means, and am a totally libertarian about allowing people personal choice to live how they chose ,but regardless of this difference of ideals I will insist that there is a great cultural bias and general misunderstanding into the nature of these subjects which is preventing people from being able to make well informed dietary "dissensions".

If I may continue with the subject of cookings effect on bio-availability. There is this preconceived notion that breaking down the proteins by cooking which allows for quicker assimilation, is a positive thing without drawback. I would like to draw attention to a few contentions to this assumption. Raw fats and proteins are "suppose" to take longer to digest and assimilate, carnivores in nature will eat large portions of flesh and then not have to eat again for long periods of time. The body slowly breaks down the food and absorbs its nutrition over time to give a slow and steady supply of energy. When you consume cooked proteins and carbs that are already partially broken down they are assimilated far to quickly for the metabolic and filtration systems of the body to optimally cope with. This leads to glucose spikes in the case of refined carbs, and protein spikes in cooked meats. These protein spikes, high AGE levels, heat degraded EPA/DHA and a myriad of other contamination from aberrant agricultural practices, are what is to blame for all the bad press meat based diets have received from the establishment. For the average healthy individual these negative effects can be coped with to a certain degree, and also are mitigated by a number of modern practices of processing, as well as eating smaller portions many times a day.....but not everyone is the same and many people who do become overloaded with AGEs, or experience high blood sugars, or elevated triglycerides may benefit greatly from eating uncooked and unrefined foods which are absorbed much slower and do not cause as drastic spike in blood glucose, AGE proteins or Deranged fats.


Currently, I'm fascinated by what appears as a success from the scores of people doing well on John McDougle's starch food plan.  He eliminates all oil, nuts, seeds, animal anything and processed anything, and simply suggests starches, cooked.    The part that fascinates me is the back and forth 'war' between pro fats, and pro carbs.  Each camp slashing at the other side.  One side saying it's the fat, the other saying it's the carbs or sugars.  And it appears each is correct when either eats fats with carbs.  The logic being that when eating carbs and insulin is produced, that insulin will quickly pack away any fat included in the meal, thus leading to the associated problems with the typical blames for fat.  McDougle claims there is no insulin resistance built up with our cells when no fat is eaten, as he claims it's the fat we eat that fills the cell and cause insulin resistance.   Thus his patients can eat all the carbs they want, seemingly, and no problems with fat being accumulated or diabetes.  One has to wonder how it is that he claims that type two diabetes can be cured by simply eating starch. 
   On a keto or low carb diet, when generous amounts of carbs are eaten then one is kicked out of ketosis, and insulin is produced, fat burning as fuel is stopped, and the body puts away the fat eaten as stored triglycerides.  These fats stored, have been described as the non fluffy small dense particles, not the preferred ones.  This is said to be due to insulin.  This wouldn't occur if the carbs  eaten had not spiked insulin and thus initiated the storage process.   
  Thus it appears each camp maybe correct:  when fat is eaten with carbs to any great extent.  Glycation or fats sticking to sugar is also another resultant when the two are eaten together.  The great push in the 40's and 50's towards packaged carbs also happened at the same time when veg. oils were pushed and used also.  Thus that combo again, fats and carbs.
    Obviously, as a raw foodist for 44 years, I can't see myself eating cooked starches as my diet, but there have been many societies that have thrived on just that (think rice and beans eating peoples,,etc. )   
  If anyone has come across literature going into this concept, please pass it along, as I'd love to learn more. 

[sabertooth]

Hmm. It seems I accidentally posted an argument I was having with a belligerent, extremely anti raw biased pro cooking nutritionist to this thread..... often while surfing through the web I use the forum threads as a place to draft out my messages for other message boards. 

As for homemade formulas, I think it should be custom tailored to the individual child. Nursing from healthy human breast would be best in most cases, but if not possible homemade mixtures of raw milk and well blended animal foods can be used. When the mother of my children dried out prematurely I used a blend of goats milk and raw eggs to supplement.

As for my recommendation for the best raw infant formula, one has to be cautious. I wouldn't recommend that anyone attempt to fully feed a newborn infant on homemade formulas unless part time breast feeding isn't an option. I can only speak from the experience of using home made raw milk based formula as a supplement to breast feeding....

If attempting to feed an infant without any breast milk it may be necessary to use some kind of quality brand formula in part with raw milk and  blended animal foods to insure that there wont be deficiency.

Perhaps if one would grind up all the organs glands and marrow and blend it with raw eggs and raw goats milk it would provide the full spectrum of nutrition needed...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xudsY0E0bVI

[political atheist]

Im not meaning for this to get personal, sometimes my raw passion gets misconstrued as impertinence, this is not my intent. Yet all civility aside there is an obtuse attitude in many of these interchanges of which I do find offensive to my sensibilities. It is provoked when other people claim that my own personal experience is somehow not valid or worthy of consideration without being backed up by an authoritative citation.

I have attempted to contact people with "proper credentials" and have attempted to communicate many of my own experiences to anyone who will listen only to be snubbed by those who are quick to dismiss ideas that do not fit their own preconceived views. I will be the first to say that Raw meat based diets may not be for everyone, there are trade offs to cooking and many people do fine on cooked diets, I am not a foodist fascist by any means, and am a totally libertarian about allowing people personal choice to live how they chose ,but regardless of this difference of ideals I will insist that there is a great cultural bias and general misunderstanding into the nature of these subjects which is preventing people from being able to make well informed dietary "dissensions".

If I may continue with the subject of cookings effect on bio-availability. There is this preconceived notion that breaking down the proteins by cooking which allows for quicker assimilation, is a positive thing without drawback. I would like to draw attention to a few contentions to this assumption. Raw fats and proteins are "suppose" to take longer to digest and assimilate, carnivores in nature will eat large portions of flesh and then not have to eat again for long periods of time. The body slowly breaks down the food and absorbs its nutrition over time to give a slow and steady supply of energy. When you consume cooked proteins and carbs that are already partially broken down they are assimilated far to quickly for the metabolic and filtration systems of the body to optimally cope with. This leads to glucose spikes in the case of refined carbs, and protein spikes in cooked meats. These protein spikes, high AGE levels, heat degraded EPA/DHA and a myriad of other contamination from aberrant agricultural practices, are what is to blame for all the bad press meat based diets have received from the establishment. For the average healthy individual these negative effects can be coped with to a certain degree, and also are mitigated by a number of modern practices of processing, as well as eating smaller portions many times a day.....but not everyone is the same and many people who do become overloaded with AGEs, or experience high blood sugars, or elevated triglycerides may benefit greatly from eating uncooked and unrefined foods which are absorbed much slower and do not cause as drastic spike in blood glucose, AGE proteins or Deranged fats.

 i thought raw animal foods are broken down faster and easier... somebody told me he eats raw meat, butter and mil during long workouts and it gives him lots of endurance/energy, saying that raw animal food digests super fast and easy