How often can u take High Meat if digestion is blocked/ bacterial count is low?

[norawnofun]

Hi all,

Its impossible for me to digest any more raw meat. It gets stuck in the intestines even though i eat raw fats with it. So I get very bad indigestion and everything blocks up. I´m missing the bacteria to digest raw meat. I´m certain about that. The last time I had indigestion I took high meat twice a week (1 marble sized piece). for around a month. That pretty much fixed my digestion in some way and I could eat raw meat usually without issues. Now I am at the same stage, but worse due to a recent "flush". I thought of increasing my bacterial count by doing HM again. My question is how often can you take HM? I want to speed up the process. Is it safe to eat it more than once a day, every day and for how long? I remember AV said that you shouldn´t take it on a weight loss cycle. I still don´t understand what he meant by that. Did he mean that you shouldn´t eat it when ur underweight? Which I am.

I also thought of something else. I have issues digesting raw salmon. It´s worse than with raw beef. Could it be that if you take high meat of the meat you can´t digest, afterwards you receive the bacteria from HM to exactly digest that meat? Any thoughts?

[TylerDurden]

Perhaps you need to try some raw plant foods as well...


I did a few experiments in past years when I would only eat a plateful of "high-meat" once a day and very little else for some weeks each time. It never harmed me, per se. Of course, I was unable to continue long-term with such experiments as I did not own any land to conveniently bury the high-meat-containers in. People would have objected if I had carried on preparing it. Plus, anyway, the "high" effect of high-meat seems to disappear for a while, after eating it regularly for some time.

[sabertooth]

I would be wary of consuming too much salmon these days, especially if it isn't wild. Also there may be a limit to what benefits high meat can offer, if there isn't an optimal balance of overall nutrition. Try focusing on ensuring that there is overall optimal and balanced nutrition which would naturally help to establish good gut flora and promote good digestion.

I have long advocated consuming the entire animal, including the guts and glands entirely raw. Raw liver, pancreas, kidneys, intestines, etc are loaded with living enzymes along with pro and prebiotics. I would suggest if possible experimenting with consuming all the various animal parts while it is freshest. The a combination of the pancreas, liver and gallbladder seem to always turbo charge my digestion.

I no longer consume high meat regularly, and have found that regularly ingesting raw guts seems to provide the right probiotics, without the hassles of making and maintaining highmeat. The last few months Ive even been collecting the liquefied forage in the upper intestine and freezing it into cubes, which can be thawed out in a little water and drank before meals. It has a taste of watered down bile and isn't nearly as rank smelling as high meat. These digestive juice cubes seems to have a very similar effect to high meat, without having to stink up the entire house....so far this is working great, but I would like to continue this research further before fully endorsing this practice.

[jibrael]

I have long advocated consuming the entire animal, including the guts and glands entirely raw.

Is it the raw gut that you are talking about?


Moreover, may I ask you another question?

You said that lamb meat is not good enough while lamb has not forested long enough to have the proper nutrition.

What about the meat of old mother sheep (100% grass fed) who are already 7 years old?

[ys]

You don't need bacteria to digest meat.  Meat digestion starts with stomach and then it should quickly get absorbed in the small intestine.  Small amount of undigested leftovers will be left for bacteria.  I would start with checking your stomach acid.  If your stomach acid is weak no amount of bacteria will help.  Salt has ingredients to build stomach acid.  I would also consider supplements such as HCL with pepsin.

[Projectile Vomit]

Taking a tiny sip of apple cider vinegar right before a meal can also help coax the body to secrete stomach acid. And I agree with ys, I think your problem is low acid production in your stomach, not a lack of bacteria, at least as far as digesting meat goes. Are you seeing undigested meat in your stools?

[norawnofun]

I can´t digest plant foods well once I switched to a primal kinda diet. The only liquid plant food that I take is daily strained veggie juice. That does me well and makes thing that got stuck the night before move well. I didn´t think of eating a plateful daily of HM. I just thought of half a golf ball size daily or twice a day. Should be fine I guess? Back then when I tried HM for the first time I took it twice a week. And it cleared up my intestinal blockage. Now I have made 2 batches of red beef and today started one of frozen wild salmon. Fresh u can´t get here, only frozen, so I hope it will still have an effect. I never eat farmed stuff. Also organic or grass-fed organ meats from cattle or game is something I´d love to try but impossible to get. However, I have fish in abundance. I could try eating the organs of that.

My overall nutrition is this: I drink nearly daily strained veggie juices made with celery, lemon, cucumber, carrot and either coriander, parsley or chlorella. Beside that i have a small glass of lemon/ginger/apple juice once daily. I am constantly re-adjusting to see what food does me well and what causes issues, its frustrating. Before the recent blockage I ate 4 raw eggs, raw goat milk, some raw goat kefir, sometimes cooked potatoes and sweet potatoes, raw honey and I recently introduced spelt sourdough, cuz it cleared up blockages (when I can´t digest fats or protein I need fiber to move things). And I had raw meat (fish and beef). Raw dairy also does me exceptionally well. When I had access to raw cows milk (but no kefir) my digestion was awesome. I also include nuts and seeds (pumpkin) from time to time due to the dairy consumption.

But the latest flush fkd things up cuz I flushed out all the bacteria needed for digestion. Raw meat (dry-aged did best as it gave me strenght) became the worst to digest so I had to stop. I also have a low HCL as some of you suspected, so that beside the bad gut flora are my main culprits for indigestion. But once the food gets digested it gets stuck at the intestines. So when I have water or milk kefir it makes things move and clears things up. But since the goat milk is so expensive I am experimenting with water kefir now. I also started eating raw sauerkraut. And I started eating pasteurized joghurt again. I know it´s crap but whenever I eat it warm and not too much of it, it gives me an incredible sense of relieve and food moves instantly. To me that is a clear sign that I have a super low bacterial count down there. I tried many HCL remedies for months, but none really fixed things permanently. HCL supplements (thorne) blocked things up even more so I had to stop. The only thing that somewhat helps is cider vinegar before and after meals, ginger and raw corn on the cob. Ginger is the main winner. I just bit in it and don´t swallow. And the reaction triggers instant digestion. Maybe I´m missing certain enzymes? (tried digestive enzymes supplements, blocked things up) I tried a lot of other things for HCL. Also beet juice, 2 big glasses of water before food, red wine vinegar, you name it.. But I´m taking these things for ages and I just can´t see permanent changes. I don´t want to take them all my life. I want a permanent fix. So that´s why I want to try HM again to get the bacteria that should finally stay permanently in the gut.

I even stopped eating at 5 pm since food keeps on digesting throughout the night which makes my sleep a disaster. Raw meat is the worst. Shitty sleep= bad digestion. A vicious cycle and I can´t get out of it. A fkin nightmare! I never thought I´d wait so desperately to eat rotten meat again. Another week and the first batch is finally done. And I don´t see undigested meat in my stools, it just takes ages (1-2 days) to digest. But sometimes (when I ate raw meat with butter) I saw a white slime, im pretty sure that´s undigested fat. Sorry for the long post. 

[norawnofun]

I couldn´t edit the post but I know about the Salt and HCL production. I used to take extremely little to no salt and after reading about salt in connection with HCL i introduced it again. I can´t really say that it makes a big difference.

[van]

Don't want to create paranoia, but you might think about getting a stool test for worms. round worm and tapeworm both can cause blockages.    If you do get tested, make sure it's by a reputable source, as they can be hard to detect. 
    When  you write making things move along... that spells manipulation to me, where you're thinking you're way out of something and causing potential unnatural digestion.  I don't believe it's healthy for juices ( veg or fruit ) to rush through the intestines.  They are meant to slowly be released from chewing and then absorbed easily, rather than flushing.  This will lead to incomplete digestion and or over-consumption of nutrients or anti nutrients (found in vegs. ).     Very hard to tell what nutrients your body needs at any given time when you juice. 
    Your food combining may be a little off,, hard to tell from your post though.  Keep it simple, eat only when hungry.  And definitely exercise hard each day to 'keep things' moving in the entire body. 

[norawnofun]

I don´t think much can shock me these day. Been through too much already. I had done a stool test once, came back negative. But I´ll do it again. But if they would find something I´m not sure how to interpret it. I remember AV saying worms are beneficial during detox, which I am currently doing since several months. What would u do if u had worms? One thing I realized that the most effective remedy when food matter is stuck is eating raw garlic. It´s a bit hardcore but it releases any kind of blockage instantly. Could be an indication for worms since its very antibacterial, however I stopped cuz it can also kill beneficial bacteria and my girl doesn´t necessarily appreciate it when i do it right next to her in bed 

Before I drink juices I swish with coconut oil (i don´t eat it due to the anti-nutrients there) as detox for my mouth since, as far as I know, toxins accumulate there during the night. I didn´t stop juices because a) they clear blockages, not fast but slowly b) because celery juice is good for low HCL which I have and c) because I still eat cooked foods, so I want to replace those lost enzymes back into my system. I know about the anti-nutrients in veggies (like cucumber) but since it seems to do me well I continued them. You mentioned digestion of juices, do I really digest them when I strain the fiber out? I thought they go into the bloodstream very fast without digesting much. I had tried to chew on celery but it had no effect really, you don´t get much juice out and you can swallow fiber which then needs digestion. If I could I would only focus on the foods that are ideal. But I am still confused what does me well and what not.

I know exercise is extremely important and I need it to move things, but the problem is that due to indigestion I have zero energy, and I also work long hours on the computer. So it´s very hard But the worst is when you know your body craves a certain type of food and you can´t digest it.

[van]

it's so easy to believe one's thoughts and then listen to them to the point of taking action.   So simply notice.  This is so important with one's diet, as we are so attached to the outcome.
    Juices will run through your stomach and stream into your intestines partially digested.  And again, our ideas about what we need can be different from what our body needs.  If you were to chew and suck juices out of any particular veg. I can promise you you'd wouldn't enjoy the taste towards the end if you ingested the same amount from simply drinking down the juice from a machine.  Hence, you're aborting the natural stop we have that occurs when eating naturally.  You might experiment with this to show yourself. 
    I have heard people say garlic kills beneficial bacteria, and then more times I've heard it's an incredible prebiotic.   YOu'd have to find out for your self.
  And yes, it does sound like you're sitting over a computer and compressing your intestines for long periods, thus blocking them.   Set a timer and get up every hour and do five minutes of some activity.  Very Very unhealthy to sit for long periods.  Also install an apt that blocks blue light on your computer.
   AV has said so many things a lot of people find preposterous that I simply find him amusing rather than helpful.    In my opinion, he came up with all these ideas to keep people believing that he had the answers only, to buy his books, to schedule costly interviews with him, to support him financially.    It's hard to make money when you simply say eat when hungry, ect..    'We' think things have greater potency when they are complicated.
   
   

[norawnofun]

I agree with your point regarding what the body needs and what we really need. Some people think they need sugar, but it can harm the body. However, it can be hard to differentiate what u want and what u need. And it´s true that people need to find the best combination for themselves. But with lack of knowledge it´s hard to get on the right track. I only mentioned AV cuz I mainly know him when it comes to raw paleo. But I´d like to expand my knowledge and read other people´s experience. Who would you recommend regarding the raw paleo topic? GCB? I don´t want to blindly follow somebodies advice, just to get some more ideas. And I prefer to keep things simple as you mentioned. But getting back to my initial thread question. Do you think eating high meat every day for lets say 1 month would be overkill? I´d need advise to the weight loss cycle that AV mentioned. Cuz I don´t want to loose more weight or harm my body when I start eating HM ever day (considering I feel good while doing it). Sometimes you can do more harm than good even when you feel good. Like with flushes/cleanses/colonics/enemas, its a relieve at first but can turn to a curse afterwards.

[van]

I can't advise you on the high meat issue.  I have tried it several times, and each time the smell and taste ( including the ammonia like smell and taste ) convinces me to leave it alone.   When I start forcing myself to eat things that are 'supposed' to be good for us, is when I get off track.  for the most part that has taken a long time for me to learn.
   I would advise eating only when hungry ( especially when it comes to eating meat ) and not overeating it.  As in, maybe an ounce or two,, then three, and let your body get used to producing either the HCL or other digestive juices.   I used HCL tablets for a while, but then became concerned about stomach damage.  Also, eat meat and fat alone.  Let it digest fully.   This is true especially if you're going to continue drinking juices.   The alkalinity will most likely prevent full digestion, as meat needs an acid environment to digest. 
      Exercise to earn your meals.  Waking up, eating, and then sitting at a computer is a   sure way to grow old quickly. 

[norawnofun]

I know. Sitting jobs kill slowly When I had HM I could digest it without problems. In the beginning I didn´t like the smell. Then I didn´t care anymore and downed it like a champ  But when I took HCL my digestion blocked up, and I also read that it can damage the stomach as you mentioned. Maybe the porcine source was the issue and a vegetarian wouldn´t be. But anyhow, I stopped it. After all it´s a supplement and man made. I will stop the juices for a while after the HM. Maybe that helps. I know about the need of an acidic environement but I always had meat in the very late afternoon, so there were many hours in between for the juice to digest. But I´ll try it out. Thanks.

[sabertooth]

The raw tripe in the photo is looks way too clean for my taste and does not include the intestines...my tripe blends include the stomach along with the upper and lower intestine, and I swear by its benefit. The green ingesta liquid from the intestine which i also have been consuming seems to have the taste of bile and is somewhat acidic like vinegar.

(From my own observations)
If I simply try to eat muscle meat and fat for too long without adding some form of prebotic, my stools become very sterile having no odor; and my energy levels seem to dip when my bacterial levels are low. When I am eating a fresh kill the enzymes and glycogen levels are high enough to support optimal digestion without need of anything else, but after a week or so the fresh meat loses its enzymatic kick and I begin to crave other foods which may also act as digestive aids.

I have experimented with a number of prebotic and probiotics over the years and believe that there is a need for further research beyond the narrow way in which it is typically discussed. Fermented vegetables and meats, resistance starch, probiotic bacteria, prebiotic fiber, digestive enzymes and the like are all a part of the puzzle.... but there isnt a unified voice of consensus which would guide one to an ideal approach that incorporates the best of these things, while avoiding possible issues arising from individual differences in tolerance and compatibility to certain combinations....In short there is no single authority on this topic and we are largely on our own when attempting to construct an ideal microbiome.

After the initial boost of enzymes from a fresh kill begins to wain I will begin seeking out other elements to promote good digestion. For the first week or so after a kill I typically wont eat or crave any supplemental carbs or vegetables. During this time I am eating a sizable portion of organ meats and fresh blood. The liver, pancreas, spleen, intestines in and of themselves seem to provide a huge digestive boost and allow for an  increase in overall food intake and weight gain. 

After the freshness has worn off the meat I begin to crave and eat small amounts salad greens and some low glycemic vegetables. Not sure if its just for extra carbs that are needed when the glycogen in my aged meats deteriorates, or if I am in need of a prebiotic bacterial boost...perhaps it is a bit of both. Lately ive been supplementing with frozen cubes of green intestinal juices and have been able to better maintain this metabolic boost through the duration of consuming a particular animal, and am feeling really good with the change.

[Raulik]

Aajonus used to recommend to eat small amount of pig intestines and the bacteria in it will make your digestion vibrant again.