High meat question about lack of airing

[Bradley David Good]

Hi all,

I've been eating some high meat on occasion since November.  I started it back then by filling pint jars about half way with marble sized pieces of meat.  I was airing it every 3 days or so but I've been traveling and kind of lost track of it, so it's been a week or two since airing it.  I aired it last night....but then got thinking about if it is OK or not.  I have heard people warn about botulism, but mostly when it was in plastic or didn't have any air.  I'm kind of thinking that I'll be fine but wanted to check with you to see what you think.  I'm just taking one small piece at a time so I'm not going to have big issues if it's bad right?  I mean, with one small piece I'd have the runs and know to throw it out after that before eating more right?  Or can it be so bad after just one small piece that one could die?  I've never had any issues at all so far - not even a belly ache.  It just made me feel good....and like bacteria was entering my body and clearing my sinuses and making my digestion better.

What are your thoughts regarding this?

Also - I was thinking, when traditional people buried meats, there was no airing....so why is this necessary?  My take on it after reading AV's book was that airing just improves the fermentation but I don't remember him saying that it could go bad.  I could be wrong about that.  Which is why I'm checking here.

Thanks for your help!

[thehadezb]

I wouldn't risk my life for a meal of high meat.

[TylerDurden]

The idea was that the Inuit got botulinism from storing raw meats underground for too long. I myself find that I cannot get a real effect from just 1 marble-sized portion of high-meat, so  I always eat at least a cubic inch of raw high-meat, and often even whole platefuls of the stuff. I do not agree with Aajonus on this issue. As regards the main question, I have often left  raw meats in vacuum-packed plastic in the fridge for several days(up to 5) before they went bad(generally after 7 days they turned toxic in taste and I avoided them thereafter. Outside the fridge, I have left raw meats buried underground in a hot Mediterranean summer  for 2-3 days at a time  without issue, but I always used reasonably large plastic boxes which had 50% of the contents  of the  box consisting of air.  Basically, if there's plenty of air with the high-meat and the temperature isn't too hot, it's not the end of the world, imo, leave high-meat out for a few days.

[dariorpl]

AV said if you forget to air it, just air it again to keep the bacteria doing its thing, since you're mainly doing this to get beneficial bacteria anyway.

I haven't heard of any cases of botulism from raw foods. It's usually from canned cooked foods and the like.

Botulism isn't exactly a bacteria, it's a wasteproduct from bacteria. So it's a dosage dependent intoxication..

[Bradley David Good]

Thank you for the replies! 

I was thinking that myself - that I could air it a lot often before consuming again, and it would be fine. 

Also, TylerDurden, when you say:
The idea was that the Inuit got botulinism from storing raw meats underground for too long

Could you explain what you mean by that?  Do you mean that it was their intent to get botulism? 

I understand from AV that all bacteria is good.  So why would we single out botulism? 

Thanks

[dariorpl]

Well airing afterwards would not remove botulinic toxin if it is there (the thing that makes you ill), it would only remove botulinic bacteria which cause the toxin.

I don't know if this can be a problem with raw food or not. I haven't heard of any actual cases, only rumors thereof.

The eskimos have been burying their meat for ages and as a health supplement. It's unlikely that they wouldn't notice something bad with it if it's present.

Another possibility is that meat is somewhat aired even while buried.

[Bradley David Good]

I just aired my meat again today.  It is smelling more normal now for sure.  Makes sense...a lot like when you open some meat for the first time in a while and the initial smell is way more ripe than even a minute later.  Anyway, it smells just like high meat now - nothing out of the ordinary to me.  I'll probably give it a few more days and then try some.  Hopefully I won't die.  I do remember now about AV saying that - about if you forget to air it.  I don't think there is an issue - this is all farm fresh pastured meat too.  My dog was outside when I was doing it and he was at attention!  High meat is his favorite thing.  And when I give him a raw bone he always buries it for days before eating it...he knows!  Dog is god backwards, ha.  Also a funny thing was that a big fly showed up when I went out with the second jar....I haven't seen a fly in months - it has been super cold here - winter.

[dariorpl]

What I'm thinking is that even if there was the possibility of botulinic bacteria to thrive in raw foods and cause botulinic toxin as a byproduct (which I'm not sure is possible from raw foods), the fact that you had plenty of air in the jar, and the fact that it was only a week or two that you didn't air it, probably means that the toxin load is minimal if at all present.

The fact that temperatures are cold probably inhibits bacterial growth even more. I'm not sure if botulinic bacteria prefer a warmer climate or not, but most bacteria do.

Finally, even if there is some botulinic toxin load, since you're eating only small amounts at a time, it shouldn't be a big deal.

[Bradley David Good]

I was thinking the same way.  thanks for confirming.

[TylerDurden]

Also, TylerDurden, when you say:
The idea was that the Inuit got botulinism from storing raw meats underground for too long

Could you explain what you mean by that?  Do you mean that it was their intent to get botulism? 

I understand from AV that all bacteria is good.  So why would we single out botulism? 

Thanks

The idea is that aerobic bacteria is good but anaerobic bacteria is bad. And, no, of course, the Inuit are not looking to get botulinism, it is just that there are some stories/studies about Inuit getting botulinism from eating raw aged meat stored underground, on occasion.

[Bradley David Good]

O I C.  Thanks for that clarification, makes sense!

[Bradley David Good]

I aired out my 3 month old high meat and ate a small piece 2 days ago.  It is getting powerful.  Felt really good. 

Anyway, I'm still alive and well.  Didn't have any issues in the system.