My Experience Getting Started; Advice Welcome!

[Arrow]

This is my first post here. I've eaten large amounts of raw meat for about twelve years now. I was on the Primal Diet (AV) for most of that time, and I also spent three months in Hawaii eating purely instinctively.

It's been about eight years since I had that experience in Hawaii, and I'm called to eat instinctively again. I'm tired of trying to guess at what my body wants to eat, and mixing foods together to make them taste good. I need my body to tell me, clearly, what and how much to eat. I also want to eat for pleasure, not just for health, and still feel good afterwards.

I started this experiment about two weeks ago, and I wasn't finding clear taste changes originally. I'd just eat a mango or three and then take a break. Or eat whatever amount of raw beef I'd portioned for myself. Or eat raw eggs until I was full. All fruit smelled bland. I was loving the smell of unheated honey, so I ate very small amounts of that through-out the day, and often just went hungry at meal time... I was hoping that my senses would come back in response to hunger.

Today I'm getting taste changes with some foods. Beef changes to bland. Eggs, for the first time last night, become sour, almost bitter in excess. Too much honey develops a burning sensations in my mouth. But fresh organic dates still seem to have no taste change at all, and I have to willingly limit my consumption to one or two a day at most, or else I get audible and uncomfortable gas.

Has anyone had success including dates in their diet? Is there a "sour" taste change like Severen L. Schaeffer says?

I'm still struggling to find a variety of foods that smell really attractive. I've recently explored oysters, pork, salmon, opah (a fish), but beef and eggs are the only meats I enjoy the smell and taste of. Fruits are so-so; mangos are in season so I eat a few a day. Bananas are sometimes okay but usually repulsive, apples have no smell even if I scratch or score the surface, and oranges smell good but not appetizingly so. Vegetables are fun for a few bites but I get a taste change very quickly, and trying to make a meal of them seems to really slow down digestion for me.

It's an interesting world of food out there; and I'm grateful that my senses are guiding me.
Any suggestions for how to get off to a good start would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks so much!

[TylerDurden]

How about trying raw wild game or raw wildcaught seafood? Also, how about trying  "high-meat"  in various forms. Due to recent scientific studies, it might be  a very good idea to try raw, aged meat most of the time.

[Arrow]

Thanks TylerDurden. I have had high meat several times in the past; do some people like the taste? I did the jar method that AV recommends; the results were repulsive but I ate it a few times to see what would happen. Are you experienced with high meat?

I have lots of experience aging beef. I would love to try aging chicken and fish, so thanks for the reminder! I loved that earlier post about how our gut pH was similar to ferrets and other scavengers... Definitely confirms my experience of loving well aged meats.

Also my father is a oceanic fisherman, so I'll try wild-caught seafood in a month or two. He also has lobster traps, so I'll give raw lobster a try as well.

[TylerDurden]

Thanks TylerDurden. I have had high meat several times in the past; do some people like the taste? I did the jar method that AV recommends; the results were repulsive but I ate it a few times to see what would happen. Are you experienced with high meat?

I have lots of experience aging beef. I would love to try aging chicken and fish, so thanks for the reminder! I loved that earlier post about how our gut pH was similar to ferrets and other scavengers... Definitely confirms my experience of loving well aged meats.

Also my father is a oceanic fisherman, so I'll try wild-caught seafood in a month or two. He also has lobster traps, so I'll give raw lobster a try as well.

Hmm, everyone is different, after all. In the case of "high-meat", I  myself have found only some types of high  meat to be palatable, such as raw tongue, raw marrow etc. I have always found  raw wild game and raw wildcaught seafood to be of the very best taste.

[Iguana]

Hi Arrow!

It's difficult to start alone without serious coaching. Anyway, there's not only 'taste changes" to tell you how much to eat, but a lot of other body feelings that we should respect.

Generally, 2 meals (lunch and dinner) per day with nothing eaten between works best.

About dates, in the beginning I ate up to 80 in a meal with nothing else. This number gradually decreased to a point where I can't now eat more than 2 or perhaps 3 maximum and they become too sweet (not sour). If you need/like dates so much, make a meal of it, exclusive of any other food.

We don't generally eat much veggies, except if we really like some, for example green-peas or tomatoes. Some in the evening, a while after an animal food (meat or fish or shellfish or eggs) or one kind of nuts, or avocados. It's very important that the meat and eggs are totally OK, from animals having no access to heated, processed food and wheat. I wonder were you find suitable eggs because it's normally not available unless you have your own poultry. When not available, I eat wild seafood instead, as Tyler suggests.

Where are you? If you could come here, we can guide you and we have access to a broad range of foods (probably the best in the world!) including our eggs, ducks and cocks/chicken, perhaps wild-boar or maybe mutton. 

By the way, GCB's main book is now available in English in a new updated edition:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Instinctotherapy+%3A+Instinctive+Raw+Paleolithic+Nutrition&ref=nb_sb_noss   

[van]

I agree that going instinctual takes some coaching.  I was at Montrame  5-6 times for days at a time, and still it eluded me.
    Since those days, I discovered the internet and have been keenly interested in learning from some of the worlds top researchers in the area of the effects of sugar/carbs as it relates to insulin and body health etc.  And the effects of eating sugar/carbs and fats together.  I won't go into detail here, but have strong opinions that those truly interested in long term health should educate themselves and eventually get blood work done and routinely check one's blood sugar levels as relates to insulin levels and more. 
    Unless you're burning huge amounts of calories either through strenuous work or exercise at a more than daily rate, eating all the sugar, honey, dates, sugary fruits you  want or 'instinctually desire' year-round Will catch up you, and you Will age faster than if you kept your insulin levels low and corresponding blood sugar levels. 

  Part of Instinctual eating is not only recognizing what makes you salivate etc, bit recognizing the effects foods and have on you meal by meal.  Yes, we'd like to believe there is a 'stop' that will protect you, But like I say, those details take some coaching and refinement. 

   Like iguana said, two meals a day, developing true hunger, not lusting after the next sweet treat ( as can be promoted on certain islands ) are tips that can help.

[Arrow]

Thanks Iguana for all this awesome feedback!

I'm curious what other body feelings you're referring to. In the mouth or elsewhere in the body?

Two meals does sound ideal. I get the best digestion when I only eat a single species of food at one sitting; mangoes for example, and no other fruit. As a result, if the meal is too small I'm finding I need another meal after an hour or two. This might improve when I have a better sense for what my body is craving, and can eat it in volume.

80 dates is a staggering amount! I think I have gotten that "too sweet" taste change, which feels like a burning sensation to me, the same as with too much honey. But afterwards I get loud scentless gas, which makes me think something is wrong. Any idea what this is about? The dates I'm eating are fresh, California-grown, certified organic dates; not dried or pitted. They're delicious, if expensive.

My experience is not aligning with what Severen L. Schaeffer says in this quote from Instinctive Nutrition:

Fresh dates become sour when no longer needed. Commercially dried dates are generally dried at high temperature and should be avoided since they can easily be eaten to excess, producing "allergic" reactions and malaise. Buy dried dates only if the seller can certify that they were air-dried, and only if they produce a sweet-to-sour taste change.

I will definitely keep eating vegetables on occasion and only the most attractive, like you describe. We have a big vegetable garden in the warmer months.

I wonder were you find suitable eggs because it's normally not available unless you have your own poultry. When not available, I eat wild seafood instead, as Tyler suggests.

I'm sure I'm not buying "suitable" eggs, by your definition. They're pasture raised, organic eggs, from a Whole Foods here in north-eastern USA. They taste delicious; sweet and creamy. I eat them at room temperature, and the taste change has been very clear recently. I'd certainly consider better eggs if I could source them, but right now I value the variety they give to my diet.

Thanks for the book link; I would like to read it.

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Thanks Van!

Those are some interesting and useful ideas you mention. I'm not educated on insulin and blood sugar. I do understand what you mean about lusting after the next sweet treat though! As with my first instinctive experience, this time around I'm finding I have the same coping strategy of using food to calm my emotions and a structured meal schedule, like the two meals you and Iguana mention, really helps!

Are you suggesting a primarily meat-based diet as a general method to maintain better blood sugar levels? I'm not interested in doing regular blood work, at this point.

[TylerDurden]

I would recommend eating only 1 large meal a day, or even only one large meal every 2 days. Intermittent Fasting is a great way to increase longevity and health, just look at all the online studies supporting it. It is true that one needs to eat high quality raw foods, but the fact is that digestion occupies a lot of the body's resources, so that not eating/digesting all the time allows the body to focus on healing more. As regards variety, this is important as , in palaeo times, our ancestors had access to a far wider variety of foods than in modern times. The other point is that one's tastes change on a RVAF diet. For example, when I first started going rawpalaeo, I would eat lots of raw cod, since then I cannot stand the stuff, for whatever reason. The result is that I regularly change my raw foods  to avoid a monotonous dietary regime.

[van]

I'm really not here to coach my dietary choices.  I do hope though that others take an interest in real ongoing medical science especially as it applies to longevity. But that takes a curiosity that goes beyond reading what some diet guru suggests.  Understanding the physiological difference between being a sugar burner and a fat burner I think is key to making an initial foray.  Plenty of information on the net.   

[Iguana]

Yes Arrow, that "too sweet" taste feels like a burning sensation when we have eaten enough of a sweet food such as dates, honey or cherimoyas. Other body feelings can be repletion, a slight nausea or any subtle discomfort with the particular stuff we are are eating.

Even if we don't eat much vegetables, we better put a choice of them on the table every evening. Even small amounts are useful and certainly necessary for a balanced diet..

I would recommend eating only 1 large meal a day, or even only one large meal every 2 days. Intermittent Fasting is a great way to increase longevity and health, just look at all the online studies supporting it. It is true that one needs to eat high quality raw foods, but the fact is that digestion occupies a lot of the body's resources, so that not eating/digesting all the time allows the body to focus on healing more. As regards variety, this is important as , in palaeo times, our ancestors had access to a far wider variety of foods than in modern times. The other point is that one's tastes change on a RVAF diet. For example, when I first started going rawpalaeo, I would eat lots of raw cod, since then I cannot stand the stuff, for whatever reason. The result is that I regularly change my raw foods  to avoid a monotonous dietary regime.

Good advices, I totally agree. If one can do that for a while, it's fine. On the long run, one meal per day would not be enough, I think. Two meals/day have been found to be the best compromise for most people. If we finish dinner at or before 8 PM, it leaves 16 hours of fasting until noon the next day.

[Arrow]

Thanks everyone for your ideas.

TylerDurden, fasting seems to be a really useful skill. Especially at times when quality, wholesome foods are not available, or when my body needs the rest and healing that regular digestion deters.

I understand what you're saying Van; I'll do my own research. I'm excited to keep exploring my health, and growing my awareness of my body and it's needs.

Iguana; thanks for this clarity about other body sensations. I have been getting that date stop, but I might not be sensitive enough yet to catch it before overeating.

Also, I forgot to mention, thanks Iguana for the invite to join you in this exploration! Where are you living? Looks tropical.

[Iguana]

I have been getting that date stop, but I might not be sensitive enough yet to catch it before overeating.

Also, I forgot to mention, thanks Iguana for the invite to join you in this exploration! Where are you living? Looks tropical.

Yes, the so-called "instinctive stop" is most of the times very gradual and we are much better off if we stop as soon a food becomes less tasty or less satisfying, instead of going to the extreme end!

I'm in Algarve, Southern Portugal, 25 km from Lagos. We have tasty tropical fruits as well as Mediterranean ones, a huge choice of fine seafood, all kinds of nuts and vegetables. Plenty of wild boars come to my land and even around the house at night, but I could not yet get my hand on any. I hope to get the meat of one very soon.