underweight

[tear11]

Has anybody had success putting on weight eating this way and what worked? I love eating this way but find fat hard to digest and and it is limiting my calories.  All  I really crave is meat and fat but find when I eat fat I feel like crap so I am frustrated. Is there any fat you find easier to digest? Thanks for the guidance:)

[DeadRamones]

What kind of fat are you eating?

[ys]

I am in the same boat, very hard to gain weight regardless of what I eat.  I suspect some inefficiencies with digestion and/or absorption.  All animal fats are digested pretty much the same way, bile emulsifies fat, then gets absorbed in the small intestine.

I am trying different food combinations to see which gets digested the quickest.  I think the longer it seats in the stomach the less likely it is getting digested properly.

[PaleoPhil]

Yes, I find that making foods easier to digest (such as by eating raw ground beef instead of raw steak) helps a bit, and also finding RPD foods that you both like very much and that don't affect you negatively. It's not easy, though. I suspect that genetics and digestive system damage play a role.

I transitioned slowly so I wouldn't experience a big weight loss like Lex Rooker did.

[goodsamaritan]

Compared to my wai diet where I only ate meat 1x per day.
I sustained a higher weight level by eating meat 3x per day than just eating meat 1x per day.
Now I'm gaining more weight during Durian season by eating durians and meat.
Seems durian seems fattening.  Probably just the right combo of fat and carbs.

In my case I believe it is because on a high fruit diet I move my bowels too fast and too often. 
I now feel a more solid stomach.

It's not just what I eat, it's what I absorb.

[Donnyten]

I am also concerned with being under weight.

I am 6'1 and weigh 147 ibs

[van]

I still find back fat to be the easiest and most desirable.   I am eating back fat that has been frozen, and although I can't tell for sure, (life changes all the time) but it seems it doesn't leave me as energized as fresh.  I will have fresh available in a couple of days, and am looking forward to the comparison.  Still finding that eating fat after eating meat works the best.  And to mention again how much I love putting sliced pieces of fat into the food processor just long enough to get half chunks/half creamy and then putting that mixture into a bowl and spreading it thin against the walls of the bowl, and then placing that bowl into a covered pot of warm water/110 f.  I take the temp of the fat throughout the process.  It never gets above 100 f.  At that temp, in about ten to twenty minutes,  half of the mixture has turned to a golden liquid that is sooo good.  The rest is warm and sweet and I can easily 'suck' the liquid from the tissue and dispense with/spit out that tissue if I want to.  I can't imagine anyone not falling in love with this concoction.  This has proved especially valuable when you get fat scraps that are tough and full of connective tissue, which can be most difficult to chew otherwise.    It would be most interesting to serve this to someone who really didn't know what it was.  It's as good as anything any french chef could concoct.  At least in my experience. 

[Guittarman03]

Gaining weight is simple:

Eat often
Eat MORE than just being full.  Almost like a kid and ice cream.   
EAT CARBS!  And eat them with, or at least close to, your meat/fat. 
Lift weights, lift heavy, get near to/achieve muscle failure often
Eat ALOT
Eat MORE than just being full.   
Get plenty of and good sleep at night.

Eating the 'right' type of fat, or more fat, etc might not (probably won't) do much to help you gain.  Excess calories and carbs will - they force your body to absorb b/c of insulin response.

When I'm trying to put on weight, I eat plenty of carbs, and I eat often throughout the day.  In glucose metabolism, carbs burn quickly and your body will quickly pull protein to synthesize carbs if you haven't eaten in a while (which would be the opposite of the goal to put on muscle - good weight). 

When I'm trying to lose fat, I eat very few carbs to get back in to ketosis, and eat only a couple times in the day.  In ketosis, the body pulls fat for energy sparing the protein, so you lose fat not muscle.  However, it's hard to gain muscle this way b/c you don't have the anabolic effect of insulin like you do when eating carbs often.   

[Donnyten]

Guittarman what are your sources for carbs?

[invisible]

Don't need carbs just more calories than you expend. Up the fat content and keep protein the same. Fat is the best macronutrient for gaining weight, you probably just need to get used to eating lots of it.

[TylerDurden]

Yeah, eating raw carbs is the trick re gaining weight. Indeed, it's possible that your dislike of fat might be due to going ZC(?) As for types of raw fat, why not try raw plant fats like avocado?(though definitely not coconut oil)The easiest raw animal fat, IMO, to get used to is raw marrow(the soft creamy version found in the lower leg, not the hard dry marrow from above).

Re ground meat- I had the opposite experience -when I first started rawpalaeo, my digestive system was pretty much ruined, with me finding ground raw meats being a bit heavy in my stomach and seeming to take longer to digest than solid raw meats.

[Donnyten]

So are avocados good then?   

I was reading this thread ...

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/omnivorous-raw-paleo/talk-about-avocados/

[TylerDurden]

Don't worry, that was just scaremongering. Avocadoes are fine.

[cherimoya_kid]

Avocadoes are very good for gaining weight.  So is raw goat dairy, although that's a food that you definitely want to eat in moderation, and only eat in fermented form, if at all. 

[ys]

Eat often
Eat MORE than just being full.  Almost like a kid and ice cream.   
EAT CARBS!  And eat them with, or at least close to, your meat/fat.
Lift weights, lift heavy, get near to/achieve muscle failure often
Eat ALOT
Eat MORE than just being full.   
Get plenty of and good sleep at night.

These are all very good points.  Unfortunately, they only apply to a healthy person with healthy GI system. Those who have difficulty gaining weight usually have some kind of GI problem and above tips can easily aggravate the situation.

I also do not believe in so called "fast metabolism".  In a healthy system all extra (unspent) sugars will convert into fat by the liver for use during leaner times.   If this does not happen then GI system is not working efficiently and there is some kind of problem.

If I eat more carbs I get health issues that make it even worse.  Also eating more than just being full only slows down digestion/absorption and puts more strain on already weakened GI system.

The solution is to recover your GI system.  Surely, easier said then done as I am still trying to recover my digestion.

So far I have found that eating when hungry works the best.  Eat something small and salty 10-15 min before the meal.  Eat in smaller portions.  This way stomach gets empty rather quickly and will be ready for the next meal.  When I eat big portions it tend to sit in the stomach forever.
I avoid starchy food as they give heavy bloating.  Fruits and leafy greens do not appear to give me bloating. A slice of bread also does not give bloating.
Rare meat and fat in moderate amounts with little salt digests pretty quickly.

I really hope I get to the point where eating more carbs will result in some fat deposits.  So far it is not the case.
 

[Guittarman03]

Carbs will be first used for energy, second stored as glycogen in the muscles and liver, and only last are they converted to fats - this happens when either muscle glycogen is full, or you've eaten too many carbs in one sitting.

I get carbs from fruits and veggies, and occasionally I will eat some grains, but only AFTER a good workout.  I know grains are neither paleo nor all that healthy, but they are just so darn good for insulin response and storing glycogen in muscles.  I do eat raw meat about 95% of time. 

[personal opinion - carbs, even cooked, tend to remain just carbs.  Not really any extra toxins or whatever.  Meat however, the fats are so complex, varied, and heat sensitive, they change significantly and create toxins.  Thus I see eating cooked carbs as being moderately okay - if done in conjunction with intense workouts - and cooked meat/fats as being a culprit for the slow destruction of the body.  Insulin resistance also destroys the body, but intense workouts increase insulin sensitivity so it balances out if you do it right] 

If you have messed up digestion, I'm not really sure how all this factors in.  I would definitely recommend separating your carbs and protein.  If you're looking to put on weight, you might try eating a good amount of carbs (something that doesn't upset your stomach), wait 20-30 mins, and then eat some really fatty meat.  That way you can get protein/fat in the body while your insulin levels are still elevated, w/o the problems of protein vs carb digestion.

Also, I guess some people here do really well on ground beef, I do not.  It took me a few months of cycling between feeling fine, and diarhea/poor digestion to figure out it was the ground beef.  My theory is that since it's already ground into a mush, it passes from the stomach to the intestines without having the full acid/digestive treatment by the stomach.  Either way, I haven't had stomach issues since I cut out the ground beef. 

One last thing, if you eat fat with carbs, you WILL put on weight, most of it fat.  B/c now you have an insulin response which tells your body to store anything in the blood stream, and there is fat in the blood stream. 

[PaleoPhil]

These are all very good points.  Unfortunately, they only apply to a healthy person with healthy GI system. Those who have difficulty gaining weight usually have some kind of GI problem and above tips can easily aggravate the situation.

I also do not believe in so called "fast metabolism".  In a healthy system all extra (unspent) sugars will convert into fat by the liver for use during leaner times.   If this does not happen then GI system is not working efficiently and there is some kind of problem.

If I eat more carbs I get health issues that make it even worse. ....

Same here. Carbs were a nightmarish disaster for me. I dropped down to 122 lbs when I tried to gain weight by eating more carbs (I was already eating significant carbs and tried increasing them further) and lifting weights--doing the very sort of bulking routines like squats that people here recommend.

Carbs did put weight on me in the earlier past, but it was only blubber. I would rather add mostly muscle. In recent years carbs just seemed to make me sick--and that was BEFORE going carnivorous. Since starting to reduce my carbs I've added 14 lbs and I'm hoping to add more. I'm not lifting weights now, but I am doing a core group of the bulking body-weight-only resistance exercises of the sort that other people are doing here (squats, pull-ups, push-ups, dips, etc.). Carbs really weakened me, though, so I'm re-starting at a real low strength point. I'm not looking to become an extreme bodybuilder or enter MMA competitions or any such thing--just increase my bulk to the point where people think I look pretty normal. So I don't care if it's not possible to develop massive muscles on a carnivorous diet.

I'll likely always have relatively thin limbs (even when my belly was bulging out over my belt in the past at 179 lbs I still had thin limbs), given my genetic heritage, so just getting to the point of looking "normal" is extremely difficult, not easy as was mentioned with good intentions. I have several male relatives who eat carbs and work out but also look pretty thin. I think if I get up to 155-160 lbs, most people will think I look fine, since that's above my father's weight and people think he looks OK (and he's only a bit shorter than me). I would be pretty happy with even 150 lbs, my father's weight, as it would be in a healthy range, but I think I'll be optimistic and aim for 160 lbs of mostly muscle.

I know the pro-carbs advice is well intentioned, but eating more carbs is definitely not part of the solution for everyone. One thing I've been doing that has helped is check the weight scale daily and make sure I'm either gaining a bit or at least maintaining. If my weight falls at all I get another helping of meat and fat. Meats and animal fats are very satiating for me, so I have to make a conscious effort to eat more in order to gain, but at least meats and fats don't make me sick and waste away the way carbs do.

[Guittarman03]

That's interesting Phil.  What were you eating for carbs when you tried?  You said you were already eating alot of carbs and tried to add more.  Was that before raw meat?  Have you tried adding some simple stuff like tomatoes, bell peppers, coconut water, or honey with meat?  Or have you tried any fruits in conjunction with workouts?  Or were you eating more along the lines of more fibrous plant matter like broccoli, carrots, asparagus, etc? 

I can see how if you tried to get alot of carbs in the form of vegetables that you could easily lose weight.  I tried it for just a couple weeks about 2 years ago, and I lost weight b/c I couldn't get enough calories on veggies, and my stomach was always hurting. 

I guess with so many overweight people (b/c of excess carbs with fat), I would think that losing weight when adding carbs is more of an exception, though I'm not discounting your experiences.

[zenfood]

you could try digestive enzymes, hcl and non-gmo soy lecithin to help with your digestion. also cleansing your liver and gallbladder, and your colon, probably could help.

MAX

[PaleoPhil]

you could try digestive enzymes, hcl and non-gmo soy lecithin to help with your digestion. also cleansing your liver and gallbladder, and your colon, probably could help.

MAX

Who me? There's apparently some misunderstanding here. I'm doing GREAT! Better than ever and continually improving (check out my journal for the progress history, and also see Lex's bio and journal for an even more amazing carnivore success story). I'm gaining weight and slowly gaining strength and my digestion is already improving after just a couple of months of raw carnivore. I'm not going to take acid supplements or non-Paleo soy just so I can eat carbs. Why would I do that? That would be like me telling Tyler to take that stuff so he can go carnivore like me without the negative effects he had. Again, why should he if he's doing well? As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

For me, raw carnivore appears to be the answer--at least for now. Best diet I've tried so far. To paraphrase Lex, if the progress reverses I will re-examine and adjust as necessary. The reason I posted in this thread was to explain that not everyone does well on plant carbs. None of them did any good for my health and they all seemed to have ill effects on me (even organic berries, darn it all!), some more than others. I am hoping some day to be able to re-introduce berries and apples in season--I'll probably try it this summer--as I do love them--but not because I think I need the carbs.

[TylerDurden]

I think he was referring to the original poster.

[PaleoPhil]

Ah, OK, thanks. Then I guess my response can be considered more of an answer to Guittarman.

[tear11]

Thank you everyone for contributing. It means a lot especially coming from a place of ill health. The debate for me is exactly as what is being discussed whether to get calories from fat or carbs. I intuitively feel fats is the way to go and I know I actually feel better when I am not eating carbs (i.e fruit maybe honey would be better because no fiber or bulk?) but do struggle with consuming fats in any reasonable quantity. Again thanks and any advice is welcome.  Take care all....                                    p.s. if anyone has a magical weight gaining formula let me know:)

[PaleoPhil]

I can't imagine honey being any better than fruits, especially since the most nutritious part of the bee hive is left out (fat- and protein-rich grub comb).

Before I went carnivorous I had trouble digesting fats too, and didn't care for the taste or mouth feel of many of them. So I transitioned gradually, so as to not lose weight or eat too much protein. Find the animal fats you like (or dislike least) and digest best and eat pretty much as much of them as you can handle (75 - 85% seems to be the right final range for most people, but that could be lower if you decide to keep eating some carbs).