How do you feel about the b17/cancer issue?

[kurite]

Hi
ive been reading up on b17 defficiency being the cause of cancer and was just wondering what all of you think?

[goodsamaritan]

Hi
ive been reading up on b17 defficiency being the cause of cancer and was just wondering what all of you think?

B17 is just one isolated "vitamin" for those on SAD.

Hard core high fat raw paleo diet and lifestyle using the most nutritious raw paleo food and we have nothing to fear from cancer... ever.

Check my sig for curemanual.com, I've helped people with cancer and my friend Vander cures cancers routinely.  So we're familiar with the problem, and usually the problem is people go straight to their western medical treatments which are most of the time very harmful.

[TylerDurden]

I hate to disagree but it is possible for wild animals to get cancer. For example it was an urban myth that sharks can't get cancer in the wild which resulted in a lot of bogus sales of dodgy shark-fin products. I agree that a raw, palaeolithic diet can lead to a significant reduction in cancer-rates but it is not a cure-all as cancer can be caused by non-dietary factors re psychology etc.

[kurite]

I hate to disagree but it is possible for wild animals to get cancer. For example it was an urban myth that sharks can't get cancer in the wild which resulted in a lot of bogus sales of dodgy shark-fin products. I agree that a raw, palaeolithic diet can lead to a significant reduction in cancer-rates but it is not a cure-all as cancer can be caused by non-dietary factors re psychology etc.

But do you believe that cancer is actually a vitamin b17 deficiency? As far as I know the only large source of b17 in the human diet is fruit seeds and most people avoid those.

[KD]

I too don't go in for the whole disease-free utopias, but as for cancer specifically, much of it has to do with environmental factors. Humans are just affected more by diet and other disharmonious qualties and direct exposure than animals. Although it can't be linked entirely to modern chemicals or to processed diets, as there are reported incidences in 1500 BC Egypt.

[kurite]

I too don't go in for the whole disease-free utopias, but as for cancer specifically, much of it has to do with environmental factors. Humans are just affected more by diet and other disharmonious qualties and direct exposure than animals. Although it can't be linked entirely to modern chemicals or to processed diets, as there are reported incidences in 1500 BC Egypt.

What evidence do we have that it was cancer?

[KD]

Just something I've been aware of, I don't have a direct scientific article but if you search around there are sites with information on evidence of various tumors and records from physicians. Apparently it goes back further

Oldest specimens of cancer (1900 BC to 1500 BC)
          The oldest available specimen of a human cancer is found in the remains of skull of a female who lived during the Bronze Age (1900-1600 BC) The tumor in the womens skull was suggestive of head and neck cancer. The mummified skeletal remains of Peruvian Incas, dating back 2400 years ago, contained abnormalities suggestive of involvement with malignant melanoma. Cancer was also found in fossilized bones recovered from ancient Egypt. Louis Leakey found the oldest possible hominid malignant tumor in 1932 from the remains of a body, which could be either that of Homo erectus or an Australopithecus. This tumor had features suggestive of a Burkitts lymphoma.

http://medicineworld.org/cancer/history.html

but I do think as modern humans we should be able to troubleshoot a cancer-free diet, or a cancer reversal, even if that means protocols that go beyond standard maintenance eating.

[goodsamaritan]

Cancer is easy enough to avoid since we know today what it is.
We raw paleos will die of other things and it won't be cancer.

[kurite]

Just something I've been aware of, I don't have a direct scientific article but if you search around there are sites with information on evidence of various tumors and records from physicians. Apparently it goes back further
http://medicineworld.org/cancer/history.html

but I do think as modern humans we should be able to troubleshoot a cancer-free diet, or a cancer reversal, even if that means protocols that go beyond standard maintenance eating.

You do realize that by this time humans have already began the consumptions of grain and dairy? Not to mention the possibility of chemicals around them from things such as smithing.

[KD]

You do realize that by this time humans have already began the consumptions of grain and dairy? Not to mention the possibility of chemicals around them from things such as smithing.

yes. I believe I was aware that Egyptians were not raw paleo dieters.

The point is that although many (like myself even) link cancer to modern (or at least industrial) pollutants that it is present at least at the dawn of civilization or further. I believe that was what I said originally, and you asked questions about whether it was indeed cancer. Generally it is not a good idea to ask someone a question, and then respond with something that insinuates they are a complete moron. The fact remains, that people - at least according to modern medical science and forensics - had tumors and signs of melanoma. While this might be further proof that diet deviations are one major factor in cancer, along with the already mentioned tid-bit that animals eating 100% their natural diet for life - never having consumed processed food or deviating from other lifestyle factors can develop cancer - its leads to a greater possibility that cancer can be as 'natural' as cellular mutation and breakdown with age. So in a sense this is one potential reason to cultivate practices that counter cancer production through reasoning and science as well as a presumed 100% biologically appropriate diet. Possibly the factor within animals remains within contaminated foods and water/air etc...and not present in 'ancient' animals. Maybe you could do some research on that, but if that is the case, then water purifiers and vitamins don't sound like they'll cut it for people that have got the jump start on crap for most at least 20 years or so of their life, longer even proportionally than some animals eating 100% wild food live to before developing cancer.

[edit] Oldies but Goodies

The university is welcoming four renowned curators from Carnegie Museum into its classrooms to teach seminars and use the museum collection, which is considered one of the world's premiere displays of natural history artifacts, for demonstrations. Included in the collection is a 150-million-year-old fossilized dinosaur bone complete with a tumor.

"Cancer is the most common cause of death in animals. It is not a uniquely human disease,"

http://www.livescience.com/health/060403_dino_med.html

First Dinosaur Brain Tumor Found, Experts Suggest

The golf-ball-sized brain tumor appears as a spongy mass inside the skull cavity of a 72-million-year-old Gorgosaurus fossil...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1124_031124_dinocancer.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=LQ_YmCOcS3EC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=cancer+in+animal+fossil&source=bl&ots=96_kbImvDQ&sig=_YM6zFwkBleNI1bd40eY2ERh9zU&hl=en&ei=CCkLTJvjCsSBlAfyrs2XDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCkQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=cancer%20in%20animal%20fossil&f=false

[goodsamaritan]

Actually, what we are doing amongst ourselves is not merely re-enacting nature, we are cherry picking the best from nature and improving it with our combined knowledge and technology.  We are 21st century RPD.  We and our descendants who we will educate should find superior health beyond what was available in the past few hundred years.

[TylerDurden]

But do you believe that cancer is actually a vitamin b17 deficiency? As far as I know the only large source of b17 in the human diet is fruit seeds and most people avoid those.

No, of course not. Cancer arises from numerous different conditions.

[KD]

Actually, what we are doing amongst ourselves is not merely re-enacting nature, we are cherry picking the best from nature and improving it with our combined knowledge and technology.  We are 21st century RPD.  We and our descendants who we will educate should find superior health beyond what was available in the past few hundred years.

Right, I think that is precisely the attitude to have, but I'm not sure everyone shares it. Seems to be pretty common thinking - especially if you expand to include conventional paleo or other raw foodists - that estimating a natural diet (even with cultivated foods and/or domesticated animals) and moving towards natural design is enough that we can avoid or reverse ALL pre-mature illness. Even if one discounted damage from improper food and lifestyle, and environmental toxins, it appears this is not 100% accurate. Although, ironically, although there are obvious losses to us, it seems there are a number of life extending factors in moving away from the harder fight-or-flight life, like the potential for having control over bodily stress, food supply, and pursue passions, pleasures, or spiritual pursuits, in addition to possible healing modalities.

but I do think as modern humans we should be able to troubleshoot a cancer-free diet, or a cancer reversal, even if that means protocols that go beyond standard maintenance eating.

[kurite]

Generally it is not a good idea to ask someone a question, and then respond with something that insinuates they are a complete moron.

I was trying to say it in a stand off-ish way. Sorry if it seemed that way.