Confused about meat storage...

[maxscan]

Hi

Been doing RAF for a couple of weeks now and mostly just going to a local butcher that sells grassfed scottish beef (not organic because it's raised on heather but they assure me otherwise the same as organic, just that the land can't be certified as it's public access) and a fishmonger for fresh ocean caught fish. I've read both the AV books and have been searching and browsing the forums extensively but I'm still a bit confused about the best way to store raw meat...

AV recommends storing meat diced or sliced in glass jars with the lid on tight - this confuses me because the butcher and various posts here say to store meat with access to the air - preferably in such a way that air can circulate around it...

Now I know that a sealed jar will have some air in it (unless vacuum packed) so my question is: is the air in the jar enough air and therefore seeing as the jar is not isolating the meat from the air, is there another reason why a sealed jar is preferred?

So far I have been coming home, taking the meat out of the sealed plastic bags they put it in and just putting it on a plate and covering loosely with some tin foil (trying to keep the foil off the meat as much as possible)

This seems to be working but I am only keeping the meat for 2 or 3 days and even in that time sometimes corners dry out a bit and the flavour changes slightly...

Today I got a bit of forerib but the butcher had kept it wrapped tightly in cling-film - when I asked why he said it was to stop it discolouring in the display but recommended that I unwrap it and store it on a plate when I get home as it would keep better. Now I'm worried that wrapping it in the cling film (don't know how long for) has affected it in some way, particularly as it has a slightly different smell to the sirloin I've been getting and part of it was discoloured when I unwrapped it... He did say it would be fine for 3 days though...

Anyone have any advice?

[KD]

I think you might be confusing it with high meat preparation? You can store things fine in glass (whole cuts), just as you can leave things in a plastic packing at least to the expiration date. It is better to air it out once per day, or like you have observed, keep in open air. Generally the former is better if you share a fridge with other food, or gets moldy etc...

there might be issues with tin foil or film, but you have to do the best you can. I would probably use the film over the tin foil. If you re buying meat that is packaged that way, it really shouldn't make a difference.

[maxscan]

Hi KD, thanks for the reply!

AV mentions it in the first book, on page 197 there's a topic 'Refrigeration and Storage' and he says 'raw meat wrapped, sliced or cubed and placed in large wide-mouth glass jars, usually keeps 10 days (the average is 7 days) without developing a strong odor'

In the second book there's the recipe for high meat and he does say about putting it in a glass jar and airing once every 3-4 days...

But as you say, storing it on the plate open to the air seems to work ok and of course the butcher stores it hung in the open air so I'm guessing that's the better option, just seems a little contradictory to AV's suggestion so wondered if there was another reason for the jars...

Why film over foil btw? Is the foil more likely to react with the meat? Was thinking of getting some of those mesh food covers you can use to keep flies off...

Re the plastic packaging - I notice they have the expiration date but if you open it then supposedly you should eat it with 24 or 48 hours, even if the expiration date is later. I asked the fishmonger about this and he said it was because the plastic packages had a gas in them instead of air so the food wouldn't go off...

I haven't had the balls yet to go beyond the 2 or 3 days the butcher / fishmonger says it will be ok for!

[KD]

well, I tend to agree with AV more than most on this site and that doesn't add up with my experience either. I try to keep things in glass but It doesn't necessary work any magic. I'd say it still smells going on a few days. Maybe he gets really fresh meat? I would think leaving it intact would be better, but perhaps someone has a more knowledgeable take on that.

for myself, generally if I buy meat in cellophane, I usually get meal sized quantities...although I might wrap it up again. if I'm feeling ambitious I'll put it in glass as soon as I get home. A member here said they actually bring glass to the store or butcher.

I think you can get little hooks for your fridge, i'm going to try that myself. heres some random stuff on foil and other relevant topics:
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/my-steaks-turned-brown-in-the-fridge/msg28375/#msg28375

I haven't had the balls yet to go beyond the 2 or 3 days the butcher / fishmonger says it will be ok for!

probably for the best. I really don't think there is any cache in eating old meats unless one is intentionally aging them properly or making high meat. Keeping meats around from the market after expiration - while edible - are usually just nasty. if something isn't 100% grass-finished it tends to be even more dodgy. I've gotten worse reactions from stuff like that than properly aired 100 day old meats.

[maxscan]

Thanks for the link - was really helpful - have gone and removed all the foil straight away!

The hooks sound like a cool idea, though I have glass shelves so I might need to figure out some contraption to hang them from... I was also wondering about a metal grille, to raise the meat off the bottom of the plate so air can circulate - not sure what to search for on google though!!

Re the old meat - yeah, for me it's a case right now of 'well you can, but that doesn't mean you'd want to' - maybe as my tastebuds get more attuned then I'll try it.

With the properly aged meats did you just go right ahead and follow Aajonus's recipe and then just cross your fingers and eat it? or were you introduced to it by someone else? (as you can probably tell right now I'm still not that relaxed about the whole bacteria thing - I do believe what I'm reading, both on here and in the books, and it makes sense to me but I'm just easing into it for now...)

[maxscan]

Just had a quick look on amazon and found a roasting rack which should do the trick for allowing air to circulate round the meat:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00022BSQG/r

Just need to find the right size dish for it to go into now...

[miles]

Hey man, I'll just say... I think it's better if you leave it on a rough surface.. Not a smooth surface such as a smooth ceramic place, but a rough polystyrene tray, or(I haven't tried this) perhaps wood. Probably because it allows some minor circulation..

[maxscan]

Hey Miles

Cheers for the tip - not sure I like the sound of polystyrene though, something plasticky / chemical about it... the wood idea sounds more interesting, though perhaps a pain for cleaning? (though I guess chopping boards work fine)

What do you think about a stainless steel mesh rack? (see link above) The roasting racks have little feet that raise the meat about 1cm off the surface of the container...

[maxscan]

Also, just a thought, I read something on here that when butchers hang meat they quite often trim away the harder bits of meat that have dried out too much / gone moldy - do people here eat the dried out meat or trim it?

I have found it gets a sort-of pastrami smell (I was never that fond of pastrami so I've been trimming it but just wondered)

[miles]

Yeah, mesh rack sounds decent.

[Hans89]

The trouble with refridgerators is that it's moist on the inside. An ideal storage place for meat would be a cool and dry environment where you could hang it up. I've had meat hanging in the kitchen for a while which worked out quite well in spite of it being warm there. The problem came with the flies... In the colder seasons it was ok, but in the summer it doesn't work out at all. I could imagine hanging up meat in an old cupboard with fly screen in the doors so the air can circulate. If there is some cool and dry place in the house, this could be a good way to store meat. It will become dry on the outside but otherwise it should stay fine.