Author Topic: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?  (Read 5499 times)

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CitrusHigh

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Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« on: August 08, 2012, 10:57:24 pm »
I generally consider you  savvy bunch of folks. So it gives me great pause that epigenetics has only been mentioned a few times on this forum and only in passing at that.

Is this a conscious exclusion? Or is it subconscious because you realize that it throws a giant kink in the whole notion of, "We should eat what the paleos ate".

I'm not denying the tremendous effect that thousands and millions of years of evolution would have on our genetic blueprint, only I think that we're not giving due credit to the amount of epigenetic effect that happens very quickly and over short amounts of time.

Epigenetics is of earth shattering importance and would rightly be a major topic of discussion on a site like this, so what gives?

Naturally, only being about 20-30 years old as a school of study, there's not a ton of material/studies out there, but there is enough to talk about.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 07:39:05 pm »
the answer is in your last statement.

But more interestingly what do you think? whats your opinion?
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

CitrusHigh

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2012, 02:46:43 am »
My last statement also said that there is plenty to discuss!

My view of epigenetics is that it is the mechanism of evolution along with horizontal gene transfer and I think evolution happens so much faster than most of us conceptualize it as. I think that epigenetics shows us that we're in lockstep interaction with our environment, both internal and external and  we are constantly adapting to it, and then that is being passed down to our progeny.

I think it's fully possible that if were were to continue to eat a bunch of garbage while we also eat foods that detox those garbages, that we might very quickly evolve to thrive on those foods as well.

I'm not denying that our ancestral diets produce the best health in us, I'm already sold on that notion, and it's what I have experienced for myself, but I think we could write in new code (iow, alter) to our DNA relatively quickly because that is happening all the time in response to our an environment and as we share genetic info through phages and other microbes (antibiotic resistance anyone?)

As an example of this, even though our cows are 100% grass fed, I will feed them a leaf here or there from nearby GMO corn, the amount is miniscule, but hopefully some of that genetic information will get written in so that if need be, that can be a food source for future generations. Grains and GMO's are bad because ruminants can't digest them and of course because of the chemicals that go along with them inherently, but that doesn't make the GMO inherently bad, as I'm realizing that all life is genetically modified, intrinsically, that is the mechanism by which life 'advances'. Because cells are sharing genetic material all the time, inter- and intra-specially, in essentially the same way biotechs are splicing genetic code, it is terribly arbitrary to loathe the one when it is fundamental to biological evolution.

I've treated GMO's as just plain bad for so long that it's strange to see these words landing on the page in front of me, but it would seem super hypocritical to me to hold that GMO's are inherently bad when that seems to be the (or at least one of the) true mechanism of evolution. But that doesn't change the results of GMO's, such as increased pesticide use, reliance on monster seed companies, loss of heirloom genetics and so on ad nauseum.

EDIT/ADDENDUM

"A recent study published in Plant Physiology suggests that memory of environmental conditions may be passed transgenerationally, as plant defenses are primed in the progeny of plants whose parents have already been exposed to pathogens. "While this phenomenon is poorly understood, it is of wide interest and is being intensively studied in the field," says Dowen. "We think our findings may provide a framework for directly testing whether the methylation changes that we observed are passed to the progeny or whether a similar mechanism may be occurring in human cells."  "

From:
http://www.salk.edu/news/pressrelease_details.php?press_id=575

This comment shows that we are evolving from  one generation to the next because of our various environmental influences, again, internal and external. As such, we may be evolved to eat vegetables too, even if ALL of our ancestors up til the last 12,000 years, or whatever number you want to put on it, it's certainly at least that, ate exclusively, or almost exclusively raw animal foods.

DNA  methylation is the key process here and it is going to teach us a lot about the rate and mechanisms of evolution, so buckle up because it's going to get super interesting real quick!

CitrusHigh

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 07:12:42 am »
Nearly 1000 studies and articles in scientific journals, that seems to be enough to talk about to me!

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleListURL&_method=list&_ArticleListID=2087225217&_sort=r&_st=13&view=c&_acct=C000228598&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=b9b7853cf4c3563cee474f847dfbba3d&searchtype=a

I'm downloading a .pdf right now titled 'Nutrients and Epigenetics' so I will post after I read it as I'm sure there will be some fascinating info in there that is highly relevant to this forum. Cheers!
____________________________________
Edit: Ok, just finished, this is so exciting, here is the first quote so you guys can get excited too, there will be lots more to come as this document should be a gold mine of info!

"The  scope  of  this  book  is  to  focus  on  the  novel  attractive  roles  of
nutritional  factors  in  epigenetic  mechanisms  and  their  effects  on  physi-ologic and pathologic processes. Why is this topic so intriguing? Certainly
because epigenetics, although inherited, is reversible; therefore, it is poten-tially modifiable, also by nutrients. Little is known, however, about nutri-tion  and  epigenetic  relationships,  especially  the  mechanisms  through
which nutrients may modulate epigenetics. The growing interest in epige-netics38 is opening up this fascinating field with captivating insight into
the pathogenesis of several diseases, which may lead, hopefully, to thera-peutic possibilities."

The reason this quote is so important is because it's answering questions as to the mechanics of our way of eating. Strictly speaking, we don't need to know that, we know it works, the point is to be healthy and that's that, howeverrrr, it will really help us to teach others if we can explain what is going on here.

The above quote basically says, that even if you have some fucked up genes because your dad worked as a gas pump attendant or your mom was a douchebage and smoked 2 packs a day washed down with gin and tonic while you were in the womb, there's hope that you can undo that damage. Or that if you did damage to your genetic code when you lived on a SWD diet or did a bunch of drugs or whatever, you can undo that damage with food alone. Pretty sweet!!!
________________________________________________
More:

"In  recent  years,  epigenetics  has  been  among  the  most  rapidly  growing
fields in molecular science. In fact, epigenetics has revealed new mecha-nisms  responsible  for  development,  aging,  and  disease  process  such  as
cancer development. One major epigenetic phenomenon in the  eukaryote
cell is DNA methylation, which attributes to gene expression and integ-rity. Deepening the knowledge on one-carbon metabolism is very impor-tant  to  understanding  DNA  methylation  because  DNA  methylation  is
directly  associated  with  the  status  of  AdoMet,  a  unique  methyl  donor, and  SAdoHcy,  an  inhibitor  of  methyltransferases,  both  of  which  are
metabolites of one-carbon metabolism and can be influenced by dietary
nutrients, such as methionine, choline, betaine, folate and vitamin B12.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 11:12:12 am by Thoth »

Offline Inger

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2012, 12:43:27 pm »
Toth, me too love to learn more about epigenetics!
I am also totally fascinated what a huge role viruses and bacterias have on the epigenetic signaling too! And how perfectly well this fits with the raw eating! I see the world with totally different eyes these days I have to say. And it is beautiful.

Makes me feel sad about how people sterilizes their foods from this amazing stuff through cooking all the time.. uses antibacterial stuff etc.

Makes me feel good about how much we as individuals are responsible for our well being, and how amazingly much our lifestyle matters..
That means freedom!

CitrusHigh

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2012, 08:18:45 pm »
Ah, I forget that you're a scientist Inger! You are a catch already for your femininity and cheerful outlook in life, and  then you being highly intelligent just makes things absurd!

You aren't kidding about viruses' and bacteria's role in signaling! When I found out that 5/6th of our genome is viral, I was like omg, this is the evidence I was waiting for when I try to explain to people that microbes are generally our little buddies. It makes so much sense too, because from a virus or bacteria's point of view it has got to be so much easier to just participate with your host rather than try to overcome them. The viruses and bacteria that are in us, if we are living healthfully on raw foods, get to procreate right along with us, in fact, WE are replicating them because, in the case of virus, they are literally encoded in to a vast portion of our DNA and bacteria are so intrinsically a part of us that they have literally become permanent fixtures to our cells, as in the case of mitochondria, and of course free floating bacteria get passed down from parent to offspring as well as laterally between species/members of a population. Why would it be advantageous to kill or weaken your host? I can think of reasons, but none that supplant the benefits gained by living in harmony and balance with your host.

I know what you mean about being sad for people who live in sterility. I saw a woman at the store the other day and she was buying all kinds of antibacterial stuff and I looked at the poor lady, her skin was palid, her sinus area was red a splotchy, skin dry and flaky and I could see she was only going to make things worse. This is a daily occurrence, especially in my country because it seems like everyone has some sort of obvious health condition, and I want to reach out to these people and tell them the good news, that they don't have to live that way, but it doesn't work that way, so I teach when I can and try to plant seeds that will hopefully cause people to question their 'realities.'

I agree, it is sooo empowering to know that you hold the key to your own health, no one is as good a healer for you as you are!

CitrusHigh

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 02:17:09 am »
Situational Stress Makes Short-Term Epigenetic Changes

"Or so it appears, based on research by Gunther Meinlschmidt and colleagues. When they exposed 76 people to a stressful simulated social situation, they found changes in the methylation of two genes within an hour. What’s more, those two genes—oxytocin receptor (OXTR) and brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF)—are important to human behavior. The oxytocin receptor conveys the hormone oxytocin’s effect at several sites in the body, including the brain. BDNF supports existing neurons, encourages their growth, and functions in memory and learning."

Source: http://epiexperts.com/blog/situational-stress-makes-short-term-epigenetic-changes/

CitrusHigh

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2012, 10:46:02 am »
Like I've said, things are about to get really exciting in the tracking of evolutionary processes, get excited mo-fo's!
________________________________________________________
What could epigenetics reveal to us about human evolution?

"The research article Matthias Meyer et al. A High-Coverage Genome Sequence from an Archaic Denisovan Individual. (2012) Science, proves that point. In the article the whole genome of a little girl who lived ~80,000 years ago, and belonged to an ancient human species called the Denosivans, is sequenced from a (big) tooth and a (tiny) knuckle. Listen here to an NPR interview on the subject. These results are why archaeologists have become as fired up as geneticists are, over next generation sequencing.  NGS has recently had a tremendous impact on their field, by producing valid ancient DNA results from some incredibly rare and precious samples.....

Intriguingly the next step in this sort of research could be based on epigenetics. Already ancient animal DNA methylation analysis has been demonstrated. See Llamas B. et al. High-resolution analysis of cytosine methylation in ancient DNA. (2012) PloS 7(1) The epigenome can provide insight on aging, disease, nutrition and the process of animal domestication. Scientists hope that epigenetics will demonstrate a role in rapid adaption to environmental climate change. Granted that the samples can be found, it would make sense that modern human’s unique adaption abilities will be reflected by the contrast in our epigenomes to those of our late, distant human relatives."

http://epiexperts.com/blog/what-could-epigenetics-reveal-to-us-about-human-evolution/

Offline raw-al

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2012, 08:43:24 am »
Cheers
Al

CitrusHigh

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#epigenetics
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 08:56:55 pm »
Nice vid Al, Loves me some Lipton, such an upbeat guy!
______________________________________________

Epigenetics Holds Key to Healthier Future

"The scientific establishment has finally acknowledged that there is more than just DNA or the genome to explain how chronic diseases develop and how the environment, like nutrition and lifestyle, can have profound effects in altering our health," said Dr. Alfredo Galvez, renowned research scientist at the Center of Excellence in Nutritional Genomics at UC Davis and lead scientific advisor at the Missouri Plant Science Center......

......Nutrition's Effect on DNA The chemical compounds that comprise and affect the epigenome come from natural sources such as food, or man-made sources such as medicines. Research shows that changes in the epigenome can trigger diseases such as heart disease, autoimmune diseases and diabetes.

Our food provides nutrients necessary for methylation of DNA, an essential biochemical process that affects the expression of genes. DNA methylation can be improved or inhibited by our nutritional intake. For example, choline — a micronutrient found in cauliflower — can improve fetal brain development by improving DNA methylation.

The release of genes that cause inflammation can also be affected by nutrition. For example, resveratrol — a micronutrient found in grapes — can reduce symptoms of colitis by reducing the effect of inflammatory genes."

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/09/14/4819611/epigenetics-holds-key-to-healthier.html#storylink=cpy
_______________________________________________________________
I already posted an article on this topic I think, but I liked the way it was said in this one so I'm doing it again...

"A recent New York Times article discussed these findings, and received an enormous response from expectant dads. Dr. Dolores Malaspina, a professor of psychiatry at New York University, researches this phenomenon, and says that more and more evidence has shown that it is not just the sequence of DNA that is passed on to our children. "There's this other source of information for the lived experiences of mom and dad, even before the offspring was a fused sperm and egg." The evolutionary reason for this is that the child is being "best fit" for the environment it is likely going to be born into. Epigenetic mechanisms can turn genes on and off, in order to make the fetus better-suited to the environment of his or her parents."

http://www.thetakeaway.org/2012/sep/24/unhealthy-food-may-be-bad-your-future-offspring-too/?utm_source=local&utm_media=treatment&utm_campaign=daMost&utm_content=damostlistened
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 09:03:12 pm by Thoth »

CitrusHigh

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Rats harmed by great-grandmothers' dioxin exposure, study finds
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 10:48:16 pm »
"Pregnant rats exposed to an industrial pollutant passed on a variety of diseases to their unexposed great-grandkids, according to a study published Wednesday. Washington State University scientists found that third-generation offspring of pregnant rats exposed to dioxin had high rates of kidney and ovarian diseases as well as early onset of puberty. They also found changes in the great-grandsons' sperm. The great-grandkids – the first generation not directly exposed to dioxin – inherited their health conditions through cellular changes controlling how their genes were turned on and off, the researchers reported. The dioxin doses used in the study were low for lab rats, but are higher than most people’s exposures from the environment. The study raises questions that won’t be easy to answer about people’s exposure to dioxins from food and industrial sources. "

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/news/2012/epigenetics-study

#epigenetics

Offline Alive

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2012, 02:13:24 am »
Broccoli and cruciferous vegetables directly influence genetic expression to inhibit cancer

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035159_broccoli_cancer_prevention_tumors.html#ixzz27sr6KB00

Offline Alive

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2012, 01:24:34 pm »
Hey Thoth - for your enjoyment here's the epigenome song:

Epigenome Song

And here is a radio interview about epigenetics and food:

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ourchangingworld/audio/2350601/the-singing-scientist-and-epigenetics.asx

 

Offline raw-al

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 01:15:15 am »
Cheers
Al

CitrusHigh

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Kazam! Mo' Epigenetics
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2012, 05:06:17 am »
aaaahhahaha Thanks Alive, that was badassss! I especially like the phrase about eating your way to a healthy gut! Hell yes!
______________________
Thanks for the .pdf Al, haven't looked it over yet, but I will, so much too read, Merc is right, there really is new stuff on epigenetics coming everyday!
_______________________

From: http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Nutrition/Vitamins/egg_choline_1008121232.html

Choline In Eggs And Meat May Influence Gene Expression From Infancy To Adulthood


"Interestingly, the higher choline intake led to changes in epigenetic markers in the fetus. Specifically, it affected markers that regulate the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis, which controls hormone production and activity. The higher intake of choline contributed to a more stable HPA axis, which in turn meant lower cortisol levels in the fetus. The changes in fetal genetic expression will likely continue into adulthood, where they play a role in disease prevention.

.....The good news about all of this is that even if you inherited a certain increased disease risk from your mother or grandmother (or you think you passed one on to your child), it is not set in stone. As you age, your genome does not change but your epigenome changes dramatically, especially during critical periods of life, such as adolescence. It is influenced by physical and emotional stresses, and lifestyle factors, which, depending on their effects, may either optimize your genetic expression for health or make it favor disease development.

There are literally new epigenetic discoveries being made every day, and it's becoming quite clear that eating healthy foods is one of the most powerful steps you can take to optimize your genetic expression.

Certain foods, such as broccoli and other cruciferous vegetables, garlic, and onions contain substances that activate tumor suppressor genes and deactivate cancer-associated genes (oncogenes). And now we see that choline appears to influence cortisol production in utero. Your best bet is to take advantage of the many epigenetic influencers in your diet by eating a wide variety of whole foods…"
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 05:20:42 am by Thoth »

Offline raw-al

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Re: Epigenetics wherefore art thou?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2012, 05:13:58 am »
Interesting Thoth,
That sort of segways (SP) into a discussion on New German Medicine in a kind of way, as Dr Hamer discovered the process of disease caused by emotional responses to stressors in life.
Cheers
Al

 

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