Mixing foods?

[Wolf]

So I've heard a lot of bad about mixing foods, mostly because it seems to be bad for digestion, but I remember reading somewhere (and I forget where so I have no idea how true this is or not) that if you eat fruit and meat at the same time, that the fruit causes the meat to ferment in your stomach.. I also had someone message me on here and tell me to be careful not to mix pasteurized dairy with raw meat, because it can cause food poisoning, and they said they knew this because it had happened to them.  The only reason I have pasteurized dairy in my diet for right now is because I haven't been able to find any other sources of fat, though I have found a place that might possibly have raw dairy, so hopefully soon I can get rid of anything pasteurized.. and if I can find myself a good source of fat, then I'll try to get rid of dairy altogether.  Back to mixing foods, though, I've also heard stated that you shouldn't even drink water a half an hour before or an hour after eating. 

Because of all this I've ended up with several meals spread throughout the day in which I'm trying to leave at least an hour inbetween different types of food and the times I drink water, since I don't know which types of food mixing is bad and which are okay.  I don't seem to have any problems with digestion as far as feeling sick after eating anything, no matter what it is or what combination of foods it is even when i was on SAD, so that's hardly a concern for me, but I just want to make sure I don't do something like accidentally rendering my meat unusable to my body just because I ate some fruit right after, even though it doesn't make me feel sick.  I don't have much food availability for me right now, so I pretty much have to eat an omnivorous diet of whatever I can whenever I can and trying to avoid mixing foods is rather inconvenient.

So, (although I figure mixing meat/fat/organs/bones should be perfectly fine since they would all be eaten together in nature, especially with smaller animals) what kinds of foods do you guys mix or avoid mixing?  how long do you wait to drink water before/after eating?  how bad for you is it really, to drink water immediately after eating?  or even during your meals?  how long should someone wait inbetween different types of foods?  what foods should never be mixed?  and anything else you guys might like to add about mixing food, please share.

[TylerDurden]

Eating frequent, small meals is usually a bad idea as the body seems to heal primarily during times when it is not digesting. As for mixing, don't mix fruit and raw meat together, leave c.30 minutes between them with fruit eaten first as fruit takes much less time to be digested than raw meat.

Also, try not to mix cooked foods with raw foods  as they require different digestive processes and can cause stomach-upsets as a result. I think that cooked foods require a higher level of stomach-acid to be properly digested etc.  I do break this rule when buying sushi but I avoid buying too much as the cooked component stays in my upper stomach for longer so that I throw up if I eat too much cooked food at one time.

[Wolf]

yeah, I know small frequent meals is usually a bad idea, though I usually am able to fast for a day or two sometimes.  But that's why I'm making this post, is because I want to try to bring the number of meals down, and I want to know which foods are okay to mix -- like, is it okay to eat raw meat and raw egg yolks at the same meal?  Or, since I have yet to find a source of fat and am more likely to replace this with raw dairy for now until I can find a better source of fat, is it okay to eat raw meat with raw milk/butter/cheese/cream?  is it okay to have raw milk/butter/cheese/cream with raw egg yolks?  can I eat all three in the same meal?  How about honey?  Should honey only be eaten alone, or can I eat some immediately after meat/dairy/eggs?  What about water?  Can I drink water immediately before or after meals?  is it okay to drink water during meals(like sips of water between bites)?  Is it okay to drink water maybe only with certain foods, like drinking water with fruit but not with meat?  I usually try not to mix drinking and eating at the same time, but sometimes when I'm munching on some of my raw ground beef while sitting at the computer, I'll get distracted and instinctively reach for my water for a sip between bites, and I have to stop myself because I don't know if that's bad or not.  Or I'll get thirsty right after finishing some meat but I don't know if it's okay to drink water immediately afterwards or not.  Also, drinking water sometimes dries out my throat, so when that happens I'll usually eat a little honey right after to get rid of the dryness.. but should I not mix water and honey?

And, probably the only time I would end up having cooked foods anymore is if I end up going out to dinner with the family, which I always get a rare cooked steak maybe with sunnyside up eggs, but instead of other sides I usually ask for fruit, which would be the only raw part of my meal, and which I'll try to save for eating until later.  Even so, if an upset stomach is the only thing to worry about when mixing raw and cooked foods, then I don't really have anything to worry about since I never get upset stomachs from anything I eat or no matter what foods I mix.  I'm more concerned about what actually goes on in the stomach, like will eating raw and cooked foods together somehow destroy the nutrients of the raw foods in my stomach and make them useless to me?

[TylerDurden]

Keep all raw animal foods separate if possible. Especially if you have a deteriorated digestive system. Also try to drink water at different times as that will mean you will feel the need to eat much less.

[Wolf]

I don't have a deteriorated digestive system, my digestion is fine and I never get upset stomachs.  I just wanna know if say, eating raw meat and raw eggs in the same meal will somehow damage the nutrients while they're in my stomach to the point of being useless, regardless of if they (in other people) normally upset the stomach or causes other unpleasant effects or not, since those things do not affect me so as long as everything in the food remains intact and digestible, then I'm fine with mixing them.  If I have to keep everything completely separate, then that ends up into a lot of meals throughout the day to keep my eggs, dairy, meat, fruit, and honey all separate.. especially if I can't eat all my raw meat at once, and have to separate it into two meals, which sometimes happens when I'm trying to eat before work but I run out of time.

[Wolf]

I stumbled across a very good source of information regarding mixing foods, strangely while I was looking up something else, but if anyone else is concerned with mixing foods, here is what I found:

http://www.naturalnews.com/026292.html

[raw-al]

Interesting article and discussion

What you say dovetails with what Ayurveda says.

The exception to what I have read in this thread is that a number of smaller meals is the proper way for a person with a vata constitution to eat.  Other body types do best with 3 squares meals.
http://www.ayurveda.com/online_resource/food_combining.pdf

Meat and milk should not be mixed. Indeed milk should not be consumed 20 minutes either side of fish, meat, veges, salt and fruit or juice of fruit. Milk should only be mixed with something sweet like cereals or honey or sugar if you are inclined to eat them.

If you want to consume pasteurized milk or have no choice be aware that you are eating pre-cooked milk, so in order to make it more digestible you can bring it to a boil to neutralize the lactose and then when it cools, add some spices such as ginger, turmeric, cinnamon (I forget the others) If it is really still a problem then bring it to a boil take it off the burner till the foam subsides and then bring it to a boil again. (Obviously not raw)

It is OK to sip water or juice with meals and indeed the meal (stomach) should consist of 1/3 solids, 1/3 liquid and 1/3 air (air means space in other words don't stuff yourself) Be aware that juice is usually pasteurized nowadays and beat to death in processing.

I have noticed that since I started raw paleo my indigestion has decreased considerably, pretty much disappeared. Pasteurized milk was the worst. I had to boil the stuff and add spices to make it digestible.

[majormark]

Well, I mix meat and milk all the time . It is fermented into kefir, so maybe there is a difference.

That pdf does not distinguish from fermented milk, pasteurized or raw.

[raw-al]

Fermenting milk changes it's properties altogether. So it is no problem to eat with other things. (according to Ayurveda) It predigests it. Also fermented milk such as Yogurt or Kefir should be mixed in a blender with water for 30 seconds and depending on your digestive strength about 2 or 3 parts water to the yogurt or kefir and add a sweetener and coriander and rose water if your digestion is strong and cumin and rock salt if your digestion is weak. The reason for the blending is that the fermented milk tends to be clumped up and is harder to digest.

Regarding the pasteurized milk, now that's a whole other kettle of fish. In AY pasteurization is not discussed, only the cooking of foods as there was no dairys two thousand years ago. But AY says that about three hours after cooking food it's potential for making Ojas (which is the finest result of digestion) (which is what gives you strength, energy, loving healthy feeling, glow in your skin etc) is lost. So you are eating leftovers which AY says is a bad idea.

[Wolf]

Now that I found a place that sells raw milk, cheese, and butter, I'm not going to go back to pasteurized anything.  They also had kefir but what is that?  Is it raw?  Or can it be made with pasteurized stuff too?  I also want to try some yogurt, since it seems to be a good probiotic, but I wanna try yogurt made from raw whole milk.. I was only once able to find whole yogurt, but I think it was made with pasteurized milk.  Everything else is all lowfat or nonfat.  is it even possible to find yogurt made with raw whole milk?  or should I avoid yogurt?  I don't know how yogurt is made so I don't know if it's ever heated or not..

[djr_81]

Now that I found a place that sells raw milk, cheese, and butter, I'm not going to go back to pasteurized anything.  They also had kefir but what is that?  Is it raw?  Or can it be made with pasteurized stuff too?  I also want to try some yogurt, since it seems to be a good probiotic, but I wanna try yogurt made from raw whole milk.. I was only once able to find whole yogurt, but I think it was made with pasteurized milk.  Everything else is all lowfat or nonfat.  is it even possible to find yogurt made with raw whole milk?  or should I avoid yogurt?  I don't know how yogurt is made so I don't know if it's ever heated or not..

http://www.kefir.net/intro.htm; A quick primer on kefir via Google.
Both kefir and yogurt can be made with raw dairy. Kefir is definitely better for your body though IMO.

[raw-al]

Wolf,
If you buy yogurt in the store it is probably pasteurized first so not paleo. It and Kefir are easy to make.
Kefir is less sour, grows at lower temperatures and can be made a number of ways;

1 the easiest by far is to put about a teaspoon to a tablespoon of raw unheated honey in a container of milk. Like a pint or half a litre or more. Stir it up a bit and let it sit overnight. Depending on the temperature in your house it may help to put it on top of the fridge to get a slight bit of heat from the coils in the back. Make sure it is room temperature to start. If it is cooler it will take longer

2 buy kefir starter culture say at a health food store or on the net. This is not as good and tends to get expensive as you have to at least start a batch periodically with the starter which like everything in a health food store costs an arm and a leg

3 Get your hands on some Kefir grains. Don't buy them on the web from the guy that sells them for a small fortune with some goofy promise of his quality. A friend gave me some an I tried it. It worked but was too much trouble so I went back to the honey method. If you keep them for awhile they grow and subdivide so you have more. I think they come from a sheep's gut.

As for yogurt, just get a tub of yogurt at the store, natural flavour. Put say a tablespoon or so in 1 pint or 1/2 litre and same thing let it sit overnight. Warm it up before starting to around 40 45 degrees C or you will be waiting a long long time. Then wrap it in a towel to retain the warmth if you live in a cool climate.

[Wolf]

I know store yogurt is pasteurized, I always make sure to check the containers to see if it says pasteurized, and if I didn't know then I would ask, and if I couldn't make for sure it was raw, I wouldn't get it.  Making my own yogurt or kefir would probably be difficult if I can't find the starter at the store rather than buying online.. also I would only want to turn my delicious raw milk into yogurt once the milk gets sour or separates, can yogurt be made with milk that's become sour and/or separated?

[raw-al]

... also I would only want to turn my delicious raw milk into yogurt once the milk gets sour or separates, can yogurt be made with milk that's become sour and/or separated?

We tend to chuck it once it goes sour after sitting in the fridge. When we started with the cowshare setup one of the guys was getting a 2 liter jar or two of milk still warm straight from the cow and just letting it sit on the counter and drinking some and letting the rest turn to kefir. He had a name for it and I can't remember. We tried it but the milk is so incredibly tasty that we downed it in a few hours, but it does make a nice kefir. I had serious lactose intolerance issues with pasteurized milk, but drink lots of raw with no issues.

[Wolf]

I don't like to waste food at all, especially when I'm buying it myself, and I love the fact that raw animal foods never really go bad.  I just have to get myself more used to eating high-ish meats and drinking sour milks.  I think I'm getting better control over my gag reflex, and I did drink my milk once it had become slightly sour and separated, which I shook up but there was still a bunch of little chunks floating around in it.. it was a bit difficult to get down, I had to drink it slowly, but I drank it all and had no ill-effects.