Marijuana RAW PALEO style? (not smoking/baking to eat)...thoughts opinoins

[KD]

OK...and I will not acknowledge that it is "bad", so get over it already, and the fact that I use it and get benefits from it is not an excuse for using it, it's my reason for doing it, thats just my opinion. Just because I have formulated my own opinion on something that is perceived as bad does not officially make everything I say about it an excuse, my reasoning might be wrong to you and others but again that is just a personal decision so lets just leave it at that. If others disagree with my own distinction then I am fine with it too.

ok fair enough, I wrote a bunch of particular responses and deleted them.

to maybe bury the hatchet and clarify,

I wasn't trying to hold your tenure on any diet or forum against you, just saying that you've already made that impression very clear. Its an appropriate lifestyle choice to eschew perfection. Its not really as appropriate an argument in a discussion since that umbrella can be used for just about anything and what we are in fact doing is weighting one thing against another, two different but similar lifestyles divided by one factor. I could have my own opinion that water fasting means fasting without water or on bubbletea or any other thing but its not necessarily going to mesh well with other peoples existing definitions and conversations.

I too am passionate about unpopular things, but as with politics or food or anything you can't expect to get credit for just having an original idea or thinking outside the box or your own experiments. You have to demonstrate that it works unequivocally or accept criticisms, or just keep it as your opinion. I try to keep a pretty mechanical tone on purpose but yeah I will get angered or snide when people easily throw around ideas that the other is thinking conventionally or narrow when in reality most thought is handed down from somewhere. That or I feel like I am repeating myself over and over or I know that other people will not just give due to pride or so forth. I'm not saying this specifically applies to you. I'm saying that if I can make an argument discussing why HGs or even animals can do unhealthy things, its unfair that it can just be dismissed and cited again some other way that its a natural function. Particularly when we are taling about 'natural' or 'toxic'. there is leeway here but I don't agree that everyone gets to make up their own definition, they only get to choose what works for them.

anyway, I could be wrong, but I don't believe that what I said earlier was a particularly nasty thing to point out or considered it to be any kind of attack in deserving of retaliation. But with your spirit, perhaps its best as I tried to gear before to stick with non heated medicinal uses of the plant, of which even I may learn something (that is a joke).

[KD]

I don't consider it a vice I think of it as spiritual medicine
Many people are altered long before they try marijuana I was fed MSG laced food, caffeine, cheap grains,vegtables and sugars from an early age and perhaps many people of the neolithic and modern age are altered beyond repair and have used herbal remedies to help cope with being less than perfect. Look at the history of herbal medicine and how medicine men through the ages Have tryed to correct problems with herbs; problems that were caused by eatting the wrong vegtable matter or other circumstances beyond our understanding.



Maybe god the almighty created marijuana for those who benefit from it to enjoy. so what is rastas Have only been around 100 years , I am  only 27 and will be dead and gone and  none  of my beliefs will be remembered ,but that doesn't mean they are not just as valid as some more credited scholar. The spirit sees much further beyond the limits of human understanding. marijuana use is only one of many ways to experience existence it is neither right or wrong

ok sabertooth, time for me really to get outunumbered hardcore because you pepetuate this same line of why-me argument too much as well. you can't earlier claim to get high during the day at work and them claim spiritual medicine, sorry. as for the rastas, they arnt a traditional people. They were used in context of a discussion on aged peoples that used drugs in their daily routines divorced of particular ceremony which I have yet to see evidence of.  Sure I think their very philosophy is stupid and pretentious but I mostly left that out of my original comment.

I'm not going to even play the traditional hygine/paleo/primal raw doctrine that herbs have no use for healthy lifestyles because I don't believe that specifically to be always true. at the same time medicines are by definition toxic to take indiscriminately at ones own discretion, that is exactly why they had medicine men in the first place. There is alot of repair that people need to undertake in getting healthy and its tremendously unfair, but that is why people actually have to often go to more extreme lengths in actually cleaning up their habits rather than rationalizing them.

[KD]

If your point of compare for the supposed toxicity of weed is celery. Ill bite. But then I dont think you have much of a point to begin with.

well, then certainly it must be true. Are there any other information you get channeled to you while you sit there?
 

For how long do I have to have eaten raw to qualify for an opinion?

- ok well that you either didn't read my link you asked for or again you are using your anything goes kind of philosophy 10 steps after you denied (or ignored) that plants all contain toxic substances.

- I do frequently channel information, sort of a trade and better than thinking of obsessing. are you saying this is not a logical perspective that no one has ever gotten cancer from burning sage, lettuces or other green matter (to my knowledge) and therefore the likely possibility that carcinogenic compounds cannot exist purely in smoke? Just because I admitted this idea had no research behind it doesn't make it wrong, it seems obvious enough to me yes.

your opinion qualifies, but you clearly can't make a distinction between being off drugs and cooked foods or condiments  on a daily basis (occasional spat is fine) and its counterpoint unless its an extended period of time.  I generally think the transition periods to all raw or fat burning or any other thing are greatly underestimated. 6mo min I guess.

[yuli]

"Certainly as you admit smoking it can easily be carcinogenic, far more than burning sage or other herbs which without any other Google click leads me to believe there are more toxic compounds to begin with in weed than sage."

well, then certainly it must be true. Are there any other information you get channeled to you while you sit there?

I believe (I may be wrong!!!!!!) there are herbs which are not deemed toxic with ingestion in fresh/raw state will be very toxic/poisonous when smoked, of course.
Looking at it from that perspective eating weed is not "worse" than eating those herbs, especially if you are not having these reported bad physical reactions (as is the case in many people) with your level of consumption, just like you would not want to eat huge quantities of any particular fresh herb.

When animals time and time again seek out dope why is that? Would reason not dictate that if the animal felt bad, it would never go near eg. poppies again? Why do they keep comming back for more once they have found a spot where it is available?

Talking about animals doping themselves there could be many reasons - and we should give them some credit...one example:
Quote from wiki:
"Red colobus monkeys in Africa have been observed eating charcoal for the purposes of self-medication. Their leafy diets contain high levels of cyanide, which may lead to indigestion. So they learned to consume charcoal, which absorbs the cyanide and relieves indigestion. This knowledge about supplementing their diet is transmitted from mother to infant."
How cool is that, our distant cousins have mastered traditional medicine?!

@KD

I know you're just joking but I would never expect you to gear for anything or having any similar expectations on any other person no matter their views   And I expect NO LESS to be done for myself!

EDIT: wtf...my second Quote was not from me but from either brother, cliff or sabertooth...I got confused there are too many posts now, lol

[KD]

I believe (I may be wrong!!!!!!) there are herbs which are not deemed toxic with ingestion in fresh/raw state will be very toxic/poisonous when smoked, of course.
Looking at it from that perspective eating weed is not "worse" than eating those herbs, especially if you are not having these reported bad physical reactions (as is the case in many people) with your level of consumption, just like you would not want to eat huge quantities of any particular fresh herb.

that is the whole point though. no one is going to uptake enough celery leaves because there is no advantage to eating them and they have no enjoyable or addictive properties otherwise. People might argue that constant juicing of whole stalks might create some trouble but even then it wouldn't be a fraction of how much weed someone could ingest in a lifetime removed of traditional settings or brushing across in nature. I tend to think this argument of the wandering nomad gets old myself, but it does apply well to this kind of thing or honey and the like. regardless, it isn't splitting hairs to say the celery leaves are toxic and some people do believe even small amounts of herbs are harmful to various organs.

[Brother]

- ok well that you either didn't read my link you ask for or you again you are using your anything goes kind of philosophy 10 steps after you denied (or ignored) that plants all contain toxic substances.

Now I did in full. But I did still not see cannabis of any sort mentioned. Are you arguing that because buckthorn may contain hepatotoxic properties, then all plants must? There is a leap of faith being made here. I think the purpose of the page is to warn against "supplements craze". The list is not exhaustive obviously, and I found an entry that made me wonder about the screening process used to assemble it.

Kava ( also known as kava kava or Piper methysticum)

I have spend a lot of hours studying this pacific shrub, it's history, its chemical profile. It was subject to what smelled like a smear campaign from pharmaceutical companies. It was aquitted of all charges and import is back up within the EU. marvelous thing is Kava.  If this stuff did not taste so nasty, I would put it in the drinking water on my first day as world dictator.

your opinion qualifies, but you clearly can't make a distinction between being off drugs and cooked foods or condiments  on a daily basis (occasional spat is fine) and its counterpoint unless its an extended period of time

. 

So. Idealy speaking, it should be someone who have been on this diet for 6months without using any toxic stuff on purpose. I think an anecdotal trial like this would be really interesting. Also, I think I am finally tuning into where you are coming from with this. While I dont think it is toxic in its technical meaning, I can see what youre getting at. I am a pragmatic square, you can see how that would rub against your own personality, yes?

[yuli]

as for the rastas, they arnt a traditional people. They were used in context of a discussion on aged peoples that used drugs in their daily routines divorced of particular ceremony which I have yet to see evidence of.  Sure I think their very philosophy is stupid and pretentious but I mostly left that out of my original comment.

Now I am not religious at all...I don't give care about god actually...however I do believe in a natural energy, or if you want to call it, 'spirit'.
Although I am not in 100% agreement with Rastafarian philosophy, I believe its a hell of a lot better then most modern philosophies/life-styles etc, they are a spiritual people that are able to maintain their beliefs in a peaceful way thats a lot less invasive and idiotic then most.

Also...




how can you not wanna wanna hang out with these dudes? lol

[KD]

Now I did in full. But I did still not see cannabis of any sort mentioned. Are you arguing that because buckthorn may contain hepatotoxic properties, then all plants must? There is a leap of faith being made here. I think the purpose of the page is to warn against "supplements craze". The list is not exhaustive obviously, and I found an entry that made me wonder about the screening process used to assemble it.

Kava ( also known as kava kava or Piper methysticum)

I have spend a lot of hours studying this pacific shrub, it's history, its chemical profile. It was subject to what smelled like a smear campaign from pharmaceutical companies. It was aquitted of all charges and import is back up within the EU. marvelous thing is Kava.  If this stuff did not taste so nasty, I would put it in the drinking water on my first day as world dictator.
.

So. Idealy speaking, it should be someone who have been on this diet for 6months without using any toxic stuff on purpose. I think an anecdotal trial like this would be really interesting. Also, I think I am finally tuning into where you are coming from with this. While I dont think it is toxic in its technical meaning, I can see what youre getting at. I am a pragmatic square, you can see how that would rub against your own personality, yes?

well If I had an article that specifically discussed the toxic properties of marijuana, you wouldn't accept it

I'm not saying all plants have that particular hepotoxin, i'm saying just because something is a plant, and a herb does not make it safe to consume indiscriminately as they all indeed carry some matter of harmful substance that you can't just dismiss. like I pointed out with medicine men, they could pick which plants worked for what conditions so people didn't just run around eating mushrooms and junk. They also had far less variables to consider, there lies the problem of most modern herbology, not that I am an expert in it.

I thought I was the pragmatic square. this would be a god-awful episode of Hollywood Squares. Unless we were stoned.


yuli: I have to admit I like alot of rastas and stoners personally, I'm more of a conforming non-conformist myself, which is one reason i'm hard on people that 'stand out' or live as some kind of reaction or commentary. If people are really authentic and peaceful and don't have a ton of money raining from above, than that jives with me.

[yuli]

that is the whole point though. no one is going to uptake enough celery leaves because there is no advantage to eating them and they have no enjoyable or addictive properties otherwise.

Exactly, where else my point is, weed, to a lot of people (despite these well-documented studies I won't even argue with), has enjoyable properties without being truly addictive or in any way physically incapacitating (much less addictive then alcohol, other hard drugs and especially nicotine in different forms)....
....Just how my cat is with her catnip, she's taking just a little bit at odd times, then go on being a little cutey-pie, she won't keep eating the catnip to make herself sick, I can leave the catnip there all day, she won't get cranky or change for the worse when I don't have it there, lol, she is a very healthy cat as well...I wouldn't say she is addicted to catnip or in any way physically inferior to a cat that is never given catnip. Not to say some cats may develop problems when given any amount of catnip, that may happen sometimes, not often.

some people do believe even small amounts of herbs are harmful to various organs.

That is true, yet I have to disagree with their beliefs (not to step in any toes), not that I am in any way trying to change them or to even consider what I am saying at all. Its just MY own belief, that unless you are in a sick or hypersensitive state, that avoiding even small amounts of herbs because they think they will be harmed is bordering irrational fear and it in most cases based on faulty psychology.

[yuli]

yuli: I have to admit I like alot of rastas and stoners personally, I'm more of a conforming non-conformist myself, which is one reason i'm hard on people that 'stand out' or live as some kind of reaction or commentary. If people are really authentic and peaceful and don't have a ton of money raining from above, than that jives with me.

I can agree with that! 
I am seem to be a fan of philosphies that don't revolve in making lots of money...and even though I believe money can be unnecessary in an ideal society (and I wouldn't mind living in a perfect one like that if there was) I want to make a whole crapload of it thats for sure! And my actions often revolve around how I can make more money yet follow my own spiritual way of being.

[KD]

That is true, yet I have to disagree with their beliefs (not to step in any toes), not that I am in any way trying to change them or to even consider what I am saying at all. Its just MY own belief, that unless you are in a sick or hypersensitive state, that avoiding even small amounts of herbs because they think they will be harmed is bordering irrational fear and it in most cases based on faulty psychology.

well, there is the mystic truth right there, to attain healhyness is to achieve madness. Why else do you think I'm cooking shrimp and had my first drink in almost 5 years? I fear the abyss. I do think that point is very legitimate but it depends on one's goals. I do believe that even though someone felt that way, if they desired they could go off drugs and cooked foods and have probably a positive overall experience in time, but that would be entirely optional I suppose for someone already at a high degree of consciousness towards health. I also think just because something is not officially as addictive as things like nicotine or heroin that it can be so otherwise as in even almost universally accepted healthy things like exercise and sex.


edit: well the problem (for me) is only having money that they didn't earn to support a lifestyle that claims to be self sufficient and humble, albeit with vacations and safety nets for rainy days.

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/digital-short-ras-trent/787201/

[yuli]

...I also think just because something is not officially as addictive as things like nicotine or heroin that it can be so otherwise as in even almost universally accepted healthy things like exercise and sex.

Its just a complex mess of gradients... nicotine >>> weed >>> sex..... could be an accepted gradient.
Even completely accepted healthy things like exercise and sex, may become a problem for an individual.
There have been sex-addicts, and exercise addicts as well, it may not be as common or we may just not have the proper data...
and in turn an addictive interest in sex or exercise has been known to lead to detrimental activities (similar to how they say weed can lead to harder drugs)...
Such as when a 'sex-addict' starts to obsessively browse porn, or carelessly slept with people they didn't know and contracted STDs.
Or when an exercise-addict gives into the temptation to try drugs or even natural substances to increase performance.
These are slightly extreme examples but we only can speculate...
The complexity of these issues is enormous.

edit: well the problem (for me) is only having money that you didn't earn to support a lifestyle that claims to be self sufficient and humble, albeit with vacations and safety nets for rainy days.

I can agree 100% ... I have on numerous occasions been in a too tight spot money-wise to afford my fancy organic raw diet (on which I spend a small fortune  ), in this case I humbly will eat whatever is on the table (while trying to make the decision of what would be the less-worse food), not ask my parents for money so I can order some ground bison, and humbly sit my ass in front of my computer and work my arse off instead of whining about how I have no time to run around naked in the sun or smoke weed and do yoga. There are people that do that and I also have no respect for that, I do remind myself if I ever steer in that direction.

[Brother]

well If I had an article that specifically discussed the toxic properties of marijuana, you wouldn't accept it

I have read them en mass. I mean I have chewed through piles of them. At best the evidence is inconclusive. It depends on who you ask, i would say.  The only thing you find about it that is cast in iron is about its potential psychological effects. If you want to ascribe this to a "toxic effect" that targets some people but not others. that is fine by me.
If we go down this route, consider that the beneficial effects like a potential anti cancer property, as a pain relief etc. are often caused by the same "toxic" compounds.

I'm not saying all plants have that particular hepotoxin, i'm saying just because something is a plant, and a herb does not make it safe to consume indiscriminately as they all indeed carry some matter of harmful substance that you can't just dismiss.

Death cap is perfectly natural, but its name is not coincidental. Other mushrooms poisons like that of Cortinarius speciosissimu and Boletus satanas kick into effect after a week. Then
your kidneys die. I am as much an opponent of "just because its natural its safe" as you are. But we are talking about cannabis. The toxicity of cannabis is low at any point of compare. And when you concider the known benefits.

I thought I was the pragmatic square. this would be a god-awful episode of Hollywood Squares. Unless we were stoned.

 

[Hans89]

Now I am not religious at all...I don't give care about god actually...however I do believe in a natural energy, or if you want to call it, 'spirit'.
Although I am not in 100% agreement with Rastafarian philosophy, I believe its a hell of a lot better then most modern philosophies/life-styles etc, they are a spiritual people that are able to maintain their beliefs in a peaceful way thats a lot less invasive and idiotic then most.

Yes, they are very peaceful, beating up their women and beating homosexuals to death in the name of Jah sure is peaceful. Anyway, you are white, right? How exactly can you support Rastafari then?

[yuli]

Yes, they are very peaceful, beating up their women and beating homosexuals to death in the name of Jah sure is peaceful. Anyway, you are white, right? How exactly can you support Rastafari then?

Well you just generalized Rastafarian views/philosophy as a whole in an idiotically simplistic way, second you have made the conclusion that I am a Rastafari supporter, then, you bring up the color of my skin as if it has anything to do with anything.
I am not going to answer your question as it does not even deserve one, and is also not pertinent to this thread IMO...

Edit: I wrote you "generalized" but I meant to say you are completely wrong, in no way is this part of Rastafari religion or are the people that are doing anything of that sort true Rastafari...this could be said for other religions....
Not to go into any further discussions about any religion...yawn

[Hans89]

Surely color of the skin has nothing to do with rastafari... lol

[sabertooth]

I am a bit nostalgic and unrealistic , but I have met Rastafarian's who are noble , even if a bit stupid ,as Kd likes to call them. They are descendants of slaves many of them have grown up in poverty under corrupt and oppressive governments, and yet the spirit is still strong in those I have met and I wont criticise them or their way of life. Legalize it don't criticize it. Maybee I am prejudice but I prefer the company of pot smokers regardless of skin color.

I still contend than most Babylonians have been altered beyond repair from a spiritual sickness that is not being addressed, the heart of my soul has seen the abyss and I am deeply conflicted as to what to do about it. I know that indiscriminate use of any drug is bad magic, but marijuana is different it truly is mild and not toxic to the body, its effects are limited to the THC receptor sites in the brain and after the effects have worn off there isn't any damage or withdrawl, but the change in consciousness can leave a lasting impression and be helpful for those who are seekers of raw uninhibited experiences. The Deer were I live will eat the hell out of it and must get high , birds will eat the seeds and get high, so what if humans smoke it to feel high.

When used in the homeopathic amounts described by myself and Yuli just a couple of tokes every now and then(I often go days without in order to keep my tolerance low) has no negative effects that I can discern and it offers a pleasant state of consciousness that I cant achieve by any other method.; is it self indulgent,perhaps but so what, I have found about the least harmful way to be self indulgent without interfering with my real goal of maintaining health and wellness, which I can tell you I am doing alright after ten months on raw animal food. I am toking only milligrams of pot at a time. I would claim its essentially harmless to use in such small amounts. I use no other substances; caffeine, Alcohol ;nothing. That's miraculous where I come from; a long line of cigarette smoking, alcoholic, caffeine addicts.

[sabertooth]

OK sabertooth, time for me really to get outnumbered hardcore because you perpetuate this same line of why-me argument too much as well. you can't earlier claim to get high during the day at work and them claim spiritual medicine, sorry.

Work is not spiritual then what is.


This is the problem with building Babylon , how can you subject yourself to employment and spend 40 hours a week in service to the Money without experiencing spirituality until clocking out. My spirit takes no time off and I am not constantly toking pot as an escape from work, Its a sacrament I use to bless the work I do with the spirit of the being who made it happen. Two tokes and nose to the grindstone, I work hard and put my heart into what I do and If I can do it with lifted spirits then more power to me.(pot was essentially the drug of choice for the slave class, in pre civil war America and it may have made impoverished conditions more tolerable for black slaves, as it does for many of today's working class)

[KD]

Work is not spiritual then what is.


This is the problem with building Babylon , how can you subject yourself to employment and spend 40 hours a week in service to the Money without experiencing spirituality until clocking out. My spirit takes no time off and I am not constantly toking pot as an escape from work, Its a sacrament I use to bless the work I do with the spirit of the being who made it happen. Two tokes and nose to the grindstone, I work hard and put my heart into what I do and If I can do it with lifted spirits then more power to me.(pot was essentially the drug of choice for the slave class, in pre civil war America and it may have made impoverished conditions more tolerable for black slaves, as it does for many of today's working class)

Sorry I was a bit tough on you and I appreciate your fairly laid back response, but what you define is exactly what a vice is. How many people use caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, painkillers, dense heavy foods, fast foods,  sugars etc... because they are completely satisfied with the now moment and their lot in life? Often times the purpose is purely pleasure, or freedom from pain, or boredom. These arn't 'bad' reasons to do things but they are by definition not healthy ones - as they are also poor reasons to do even healthy things like have sex, exercise, and eat. you dig? You are probably right that what I just listed are all in some order more damaging than a few milligrams of pot but that doesn't mean from a health perspective it is minor. I don't want you to think I am judging you in particular if you are agreeing to compare yourself to a whole history of folks who traditionally use substances in the same exact way. I'm not saying there is no rightful way to seize moments of freedom and spirit - for lack of a better term - in 'oppressive' circumstances. I'm saying that is how pretty much all humans navigate their life, and that is the definition of vice in my opinion. shit that isn't totally good, but might make your life run alot smoother. In the end, I agree this can be very healthy and obsessing otherwise can be very unhealthy.