fat to protein ratio

[yon yonson]

i've seen the answer to this on the site, but can't seem to find it now. what is the calorie ratio for fat and muscle meat? i think i remember it being 9 calories to 1 calorie for the same volume of each. anyone know for sure?

[Raw Kyle]

There's 9 calories per gram of fat and 4 per gram of protein. Muscle meat has fat in it as well as protein as well as water and other stuff that doesn't add to the caloric content, as does body fat.

There's not a way to quantify calories in lean meat or fat because every part of every animal will have slightly different water amounts of ratios of protein and fat.

[lex_rooker]

Kyle is correct that it is difficult to quatify the actual fat/protein ratio of most meat - especially whole cuts like steaks and roasts where the fat marbling can very significantly, however, there is a USDA website that will calculate the calorie ratios for ground meat if you know either the percent fat or percent lean.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/measure.pl?MSRE_NO=23999

Since I have an FA-73 fat analyzer I can grind up a represenative sample of a whole cut, measure the fat content, and then plug the figures into the website and get a fairly close estimate of the fat/lean calorie ratio.

Lex

[yon yonson]

cool, thanks guys.

[Ioanna]

does anyone here eating zero carb have an idea of the percentage fat/lean they are consuming (by calories)?  sorry if this measuring is a bit neurotic,  but i seem to be doing something wrong.

[William]

It is supposeed to be half and half thorougly dried powdered jerky and tallow, which is said to work out to 80% fat and 20% meat, so that's what I have been doing.

For me, it seems I need more fat. YMMV

[Ioanna]

william

thanks!  and why do you say you need more fat?... like how does 80/20 make you feel?

[William]

I found myself eating scruncheons (crunchy bits left over from rendering), which are bad for me - cooked at high heat. There is still some fat in them.
Added fat recently makes this craving go away.

80/20 is satisfying for a few hours, then the midnight munchies strike.

[Josh]

Just a side note, but Lex that nutritional table shows 0 vitamin c...is it true that there's 0 vit C in plain mince?

[lex_rooker]

Just a side note, but Lex that nutritional table shows 0 vitamin c...is it true that there's 0 vit C in plain mince?

Josh,
The conventional wisdom is that there is no vitamin c in meat.  Yet anyone eating a diet of raw meat experiences no deficiencies, in this vitamin or any other.  This is the simple fact, and is demonstrated daily by people consuming a diet of rare or raw meat.  Science hasn't got a clear answer on why this is but there is some speculation.

Vitamin C is very active and rather unstable in that it can easily give up an electron to neutralize free radicals (whatever those are).  Giving up free electrons is considered the main function that vitamin C performs in its primary role of an antioxidant.

Recent research has shown that Uric Acid is even more unstable and willing to give up an electron than is vitamin C.  In other words it is an even better antioxidant.  Meat eaters have significantly higher uric acid levels in their blood than others.  There is now speculation that Uric Acid is taking the place of vitamin C in those who eat an all meat diet.  There is also some evidence that uric acid does a better job than vitamin C. 

This all sounds wonderful but the truth is no one really knows the biochemistry of what's taking place.  All we know for sure is that people who eat raw meat experience no dietary deficiencies.  The reasoning is nothing but speculation that makes no difference in the final outcome.

Lex

[Ioanna]

can we talk about uric acid?

i've only just learned about it's role posted above in regards to vit c.  prior to this, i've only learned that too much is not a good thing. 

is it something of concern as some potential crystal deposit in the joints, or is this false...or only when cooked protein is consumed?

thank you!

[TylerDurden]

You'd be in danger of gout with cooked protein but I don't see an issue with too much raw protein. as long as minimal fat is consumed as well.

[Ioanna]

Tyler, I know you've said that higher protein works best for you, so what do you consider to be 'minimal fat'?  Thanks!

[TylerDurden]

Tyler, I know you've said that higher protein works best for you, so what do you consider to be 'minimal fat'?  Thanks!

I honestly can't be sure. I'm very wary indeed of closely measuring my food-intake as I find that to be  a sign of obsessiveness, IMO. I used to go in for large amounts of marrow and suet with every meat-meal(such as wild hare or lean turkey breast-fillet or raw oysters etc.) and yet now I'm happy to  eat lean meats on their own without always having to add extra animal fats. I do eat some marrow and suet, still, but only every so often.

[mhikl]

I've looked at a number of threads on fat-to-protein ratios and this seems to be about the best thread. On one of the other threads someone suggested that animals just eat, they don't worry about what the fat content is but I have read information to the contrary. What I have discovered is that I am very sensitive to carbs and fat. Carbs make me sluggish, inflame my damaged hip, and affect my skin negatively. With low carbs I am better able to sense my body's response to the foods I eat. The more fat, the better I feel. Even when I had no control over my diet I found that with moderate fat meals I had to add a few tablespoons of mayonnaise to alleviate sensitive teeth.

What I was hoping to find was how to manipulate the fat content in a raw animal diet. I couldn't seem to find an answer to this anywhere so I figured out the following which gave me rough proportions of fat to add to sirloin or round beef which has all visible fat removed. Of course there is no such thing as pure protein but trimmed sirloins and round beef are as close as it gets . . .
. . . from which I found that it takes ? 4 measures of fat to 1 measure of lowest-fat meat to be in the vicinity ratio of 90+% fat to <10% protein values.

It would be great if someone really conversant in maths or who has found a relevant formulae site would note them in this thread.

Accordingly, ground beef is typically 70 percent lean, ground chuck is 85 percent, ground round is 90 percent and ground sirloin is 97 percent lean. (University of Wisconsin Food & Safety Department) Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/526300-how-to-calculate-fat-from-meat/#ixzz20csCfwi3

Here are the rough proportions for fat to protein for meats with visible fat trimmed if you are going to be mixing fat with meat for a ketogenic diet, high fat diet or other plan. (Protein was kept as the constant at 1 measure (or weight) per variable measure of fat.) As noted, there is still going to be some fat in the beef so these are the minimal possible ratios of fat to protein. I mix suet (which is raw beef fat) with my meat. When I am short of suet I use home rendered lard.

Fat% (ratio of fat to protein)

90%   (4f:1p)   4 measures fat (suet) to 1 measure protein
85       (5:2)      (2½:1)
80       (9:5)       
75       (4:3)      
70       (1:1)      
60       (2:3)   
53       (1:2)   
50       (?1:2)    (4 ½:10 is more accurate)
40       (3:10)

[cherimoya_kid]

You'd be in danger of gout with cooked protein but I don't see an issue with too much raw protein. as long as minimal fat is consumed as well.

Poor-quality raw liver gives me gout in my thumb...at least pre-frozen poor-quality liver does, anyway.  High-quality pre-frozen liver doesn't, though.

[Chris]

I really don't count or worry about Protein/Fat ratios to be quite honest with you. I try not to be so scientific about it. I throw my slab of meat on my plate, mix what ever fat I'm using to my personal taste, and chow down. I'll mix and match protein/fat to my choosing each and every meal. I'm not as technical or fancy as some posters in this forum. I prefer to keep it as simple as I can. But, that's just me. Everybody, has their own take or variations, and that's cool, I respect that. That's what makes this forum a wealth of knowledge. It has a little bit of everything, for everybody.

[24isours]

does anyone here eating zero carb have an idea of the percentage fat/lean they are consuming (by calories)?  sorry if this measuring is a bit neurotic,  but i seem to be doing something wrong.

Hi Loanna,

I eat about 240-250g of fat along with around 80-90g protein per day. I think for the most part of the day I am in ketosis but I haven't yet purchased keto-sticks to prove that. I do workout though so I will assume that any extra glucose that my body is making from that amount of protein would be used up rather quickly. I've been eating this way now for almost a year and have noticed that if I don't supplement my diet with at least 1 teaspoon of Sea Salt throughout the day I will become very nauseous due to electrolyte loss (which in ketosis you lose them rather quickly through urine).

So,
240g of Fat = 2160 Calories
80g of Protein = 320 Calories
Total = 2480 Calories per day.

This would be about 85% of my Calories coming from fat.

[Löwenherz]

240g of Fat = 2160 Calories
80g of Protein = 320 Calories
Total = 2480 Calories per day.


This would be about 85% of my Calories coming from fat.

Wow, that's a lot of fat.

Which fats do you prefer?

Löwenherz

[24isours]

 

Wow, that's a lot of fat.

Which fats do you prefer?

Löwenherz

       


         Yes, it is a lot of fat but I don't think I'm eating enough protein to supply my body with enough glucose to get myself through the day. I am eating this much fat because of my past problems with sugar cravings and blood sugar crashes. I seem to feel most stable this way.
          I had trouble digesting suet when I first started the diet. It was coming out in my stool completely undigested, so I switched to fat trimmings and I seem to digest them very well. I don't know if the incomplete digestion had anything to do with the possible damage done to my digestive system from eating so bad over the years or not but I may try reintroducing suet soon (I can get it 100% grass fed) to see if there is any improvements. Then again, I've read some people on this forum have trouble digesting suet as well..

          Eating 100% Grass Fed Fat would seem more ideal considering the ratio of Omega 3:6. Luckily, the meat I get is 100% grass-fed so it does help to balance things out but I'm sure my Omega 6 intake is a lot higher the days I don't eat fish because of the grain finished fat.

[Löwenherz]

I had trouble digesting suet when I first started the diet. It was coming out in my stool completely undigested, so I switched to fat trimmings and I seem to digest them very well.

That was my experience, too. Fat trimmings are so much better than suet. Sometimes suet really tasted like indigestible chalk. But there are huge differences. It all depends on the animal breed, sex and age. Fat from female grazing animals is almost always preferable, for example.

Löwenherz

[LePatron7]

I eat about 240-250g of fat along with around 80-90g protein per day.

So,
240g of Fat = 2160 Calories
80g of Protein = 320 Calories
Total = 2480 Calories per day.

Isn't 90 g of protein like 3 oz of protein?
And 240 g of fat like 8.5 oz of fat?

That's not a lot of protein.

I get like 9-12 oz of protein (336 g) which is a lot less than most on the forum. I also get like 3-4.5 oz of fat (126 g). For a total of about 2430 calories plus the couple of fruits I eat daily.

[24isours]

The majority of my energy is coming from ketones. There is no need for me to eat nearly that much protein as it will only prevent me from entering into ketosis. I try to eat just enough protein for bodily repair/maintenance. The whole idea is to get away from glucose being my main fuel.

Isn't 90 g of protein like 3 oz of protein?
And 240 g of fat like 8.5 oz of fat?

That's not a lot of protein.

I get like 9-12 oz of protein (336 g) which is a lot less than most on the forum. I also get like 3-4.5 oz of fat (126 g). For a total of about 2430 calories plus the couple of fruits I eat daily.

[Qodesh]

Here's an interesting article:

 He recommends 1 g of protein for each gram of lean body weight.
I'd like to weigh around 115-125, so for me, that would be around 50-55 g of protein/day.
Eating mostly fat with occasional  fibrous greens/vegs. and minimal, preferably wild, tart fruit such as berries.
I'll be experimenting with the 80/20 fat/protein ratio

http://drrosedale.com/blog/2011/11/21/ron-rosedale-%E2%80%93-protein-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

"Fat appears not to stimulate insulin. It does not stimulate the MTOR pathway. It does not cause an increase of leptin and in fact it keeps it down. And our health is going to be dependent on what our hormones tell our brains to do, whether to be hungry or not. If you keep leptin down and your hypothalamus can listen to leptin, you are not going to overeat. When leptin is down it stimulates fat burning. It helps diabetes. It helps all sorts of things. I’ve been doing this for over two decades now, and I can tell you for sure it happens.

You have to regulate the hormones that regulate your brain, and you do this by diet, and then you can affect the rate of aging and the incidence of the diseases associated with aging" Quote