Author Topic: Is there anything wrong with wine? (Read 26372 times)

sabertooth · « **Reply #25 on:** February 26, 2011, 09:27:04 pm »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDJUPAeZe6s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGFpvogfGp4&feature=related

TylerDurden · « **Reply #26 on:** February 27, 2011, 03:17:20 am »

Just got this answer from a beer expert on allexperts.com:-

"Your friend is correct, in terms of the real ale available today.
If you go back a few thousand years, a lot of ale was still being made without either hops or boiling. In fact, medieval England was very slow to accept the use of hops, which only became popular there about 600 years ago.
If you go back over about 8 or 9 thousand years, ale was made with wild grains (before cultivation caught on).

Bottom line: I consider it a very natural product, and really pretty healthy for you, but strictly speaking it probably doesn't meet your criteria.

If you wanted to brew your own ale at home without boiling, you certainly could. The drawback is that you would probably find it sweeter than you like, since the boiling is what converts the bittering elements of the hops, giving balance and drinkability to the ale. The other major reason for boiling was for safety, since much water in early times was unsafe to drink due to harmful bacteria."

Iguana · « **Reply #27 on:** February 27, 2011, 03:29:53 am »

Quote from: TylerDurden on February 26, 2011, 03:56:48 pm

But what about all those urban legends of monkeys and elephants getting deliberately drunk on fermented fruit? I suppose it is highly likely that fermented fruit could not work on elephants given their size, but monkeys/apes?

I don't know whether it's because of my huge size

but the only time I noticed a bit of drunk-like effect was after eating perhaps 3 or 4 kg of half fermented rambutans. Otherwise, with partially fermented pineapples or litchis I feel at most a bit enjoyed...

laterade · « **Reply #28 on:** February 27, 2011, 01:20:44 pm »

Quote from: goodsamaritan on February 26, 2011, 08:09:53 pm

Why do people like getting drunk?

It may be because they eat false food and have no real feeling of well being.
So they seek one, and there are people willing to sell a pathetic counterfeit version of well being to them.
Then they get hooked on the instant gratification.

How many alcoholics does anyone here know that eat raw meat every day?
I would suspect that number is low.

donrad · « **Reply #29 on:** February 28, 2011, 01:39:53 am »

We evolved the ability to metabolize alcohol back when we were forest dwelling fructarians. It was available in limited quantities and did not harm those who had the genes. It was an evolutionary advantage to gorge ourselves on ripe fruit when it becanme available to store as fat & get us through the lean times.

The danger is that it is addictive. We still have a tendancy to gorge ouselves and there are no lean times. Combine this with the marketing efforts of the alcoholic beverage industry and our unlimited ability to purchase (in the short term) and it's a recipe for alcoholism. There is no medical cure for alcoholism.

It is a progressive disease. Be cautious.

If you are not an alcoholic small amounts of alcoholic beverages can be beneficial, especially ones with bioflavinoids like red wine. It would be even better to consume fermented fruit.

You know if you are an alcoholic if you drink when you did not want to; or if you take a drink and can not stop.

sabertooth · « **Reply #30 on:** February 28, 2011, 06:48:36 am »

Genetics has alot to do with how well alcohol is tolerated. The pure blooded Indians had no past history of alcohol exposure, and so were in general unable to develop moderate drinking habits. I think they also suffered more health problems from drinking than other groups.

I know alcoholics who can live off of beer as a primary food source and live relatively healthy up into their elderly years. My grandmother is 72 and she can drink an 18 pack a day with maybe a peanut butter sandwich for lunch and be just fine. I swear she is a freak of nature. Her grandparents were bootleggers and everyone on her side of the family has an ungodly tolerance to alcohol. At the fourth of July she drank about 30 beers within a 12 hour period of time and was wide awake smoking a cigarette, watching the sunrise with me barely slurring a word. There are some things that can't be explained. She never drinks water and if she is out of beer she will drink vodka chased down with Diet Pepsi.

laterade · « **Reply #31 on:** February 28, 2011, 04:00:28 pm »

Quote from: sabertooth on February 28, 2011, 06:48:36 am

I know alcoholics who can live off of beer as a primary food source and live relatively healthy up into their elderly years.

I have seen this phenomena also. One guy I met says he eats a burger or a burrito each day and the rest is beer. If he ate the meat raw he would probably be very healthy.

kurite · « **Reply #32 on:** February 28, 2011, 04:14:58 pm »

Im up for an experiment

anyone know how to naturally produce fermented fruit properly?

Iguana · « **Reply #33 on:** February 28, 2011, 05:13:12 pm »

Its’ a very random, unpredictable process: one will turn well and become delicious while the other will turn bad. Even two bottles of the same wine don’t evolve exactly in the same manner over the years. Only with modern methods we became able to standardize the fermentation process: all the diverse bacterias and natural yeasts are killed with SO2 and then the mash is inoculated with specific standardized wine yeast, so that the fermentation is controlled.

You can let ferment a fruit juice, per example grape juice, but the grapes must not be washed to leave the natural yeast on their skin. Anyway, juicing is not paleo as it already implies an artificial process. Whole overripe fruits may ferment when left on their own. Most will turn bad, but sometimes you randomly get a tasty result.

donrad · « **Reply #34 on:** February 28, 2011, 11:59:23 pm »

Quote from: kurite on February 28, 2011, 04:14:58 pm

Im up for an experiment anyone know how to naturally produce fermented fruit properly?

The white stuff on the fruit skin is yeast. Organic fruit is best as the fruit has not been treated with chemicals to kill everything. Yeast loves grapes. Mash some organic grapes up and you will get fermentation. The longer it ferments the more sugar will convert to alcohol. At a certain point the alcohol content will get too high and the fermentation will stop. (assuming the grapes have enough sugar) Then vinegar bacteria will take over and turn the alcohol into acidic compounds. Our bodies are adapted to all stages, feel free to taste. I use the vinegar in cooking and on salads.

Apples work good also.

Iguana · « **Reply #35 on:** March 01, 2011, 12:17:23 am »

Quote from: donrad on February 28, 2011, 11:59:23 pm

Then vinegar bacteria will take over and turn the alcohol into acidic compounds. Our bodies are adapted to all stages, feel free to taste. I use the vinegar in cooking and on salads.

Vinegar tastes awful, at least for me. It contains acetic acid (result of ethanol's degradation) which is probably much more noxious than ethanol itself.

achillezzz · « **Reply #36 on:** March 10, 2011, 05:01:55 am »

Just a little quote from AV's book "We want to live" about wine.

laterade · « **Reply #37 on:** May 04, 2011, 03:03:45 pm »

So, I have been experimenting with this.
My thoughts on "raw" wine/ mead... make it yourself!
There is something magical about culturing your own food.
From kraut to high meat to mead, I love it.

Prickly pears are in season here in Az, awwwWWWWe YEAAAHHH.
Here is how I intend to consume this fruit year round.
This is my new drink.

1.5-2 gallons prickly pear juiced.
4 gallons spring water
10 pounds mesquite honey
3 tablespoons bee pollen
Wine yeast

This is all raw, the yeast is the only questionable part.

HIT_it_RAW · « **Reply #38 on:** May 04, 2011, 03:09:04 pm »

Quote from: kurite on February 28, 2011, 04:14:58 pm

Im up for an experiment anyone know how to naturally produce fermented fruit properly?

I started brewing ginger ale using kefir yesterday. I used grape juice as a raw sugar source and some sundried figs. And of course ginger juice. Should make a nice tangy raw ginger ale.

SkinnyDevil · « **Reply #39 on:** May 04, 2011, 08:41:06 pm »

I usually drink local organic wines when I drink. Last year when we played the Tybee Blues Jam (Savannah, GA), Tony turned us on to a Georgia-local unpasteurized beer. I'm not much of a beer drinker, but it was cool that they were making a raw beer.

All that said, when I'm drinking at all, I consider it a "treat" and thus don;t concern myself with whether or not it's raw or even healthy. Bring on the absinthe!

Haai · « **Reply #40 on:** May 04, 2011, 08:59:03 pm »

Quote from: SkinnyDevil on May 04, 2011, 08:41:06 pm

All that said, when I'm drinking at all, I consider it a "treat" and thus don;t concern myself with whether or not it's raw or even healthy. Bring on the absinthe!

Every time I go to the local health shop I'm always drawn to this organic red wine with added herbs, honey and propolis. I havn't actually bought it yet as I havn't drank in over a year, but maybe one day I'll treat myself. The reason why i've resisted buying it so far though is because i'm not sure whether it would lead to me treating myself every week... or day....

HIT_it_RAW · « **Reply #41 on:** May 04, 2011, 09:09:16 pm »

Quote from: Haai on May 04, 2011, 08:59:03 pm

Every time I go to the local health shop I'm always drawn to this organic red wine with added herbs, honey and propolis. I havn't actually bought it yet as I havn't drank in over a year, but maybe one day I'll treat myself. The reason why i've resisted buying it so far though is because i'm not sure whether it would lead to me treating myself every week... or day....

Ones you get your water-kefir going you could try brewing things like ginger-ale. Or distill your water kefir to get a vodka like liquor

Quote from: actup90 on May 04, 2011, 03:03:45 pm

So, I have been experimenting with this.
My thoughts on "raw" wine/ mead... make it yourself!
There is something magical about culturing your own food.
From kraut to high meat to mead, I love it.

Prickly pears are in season here in Az, awwwWWWWe YEAAAHHH.
Here is how I intend to consume this fruit year round.
This is my new drink.

1.5-2 gallons prickly pear juiced.
4 gallons spring water
10 pounds mesquite honey
3 tablespoons bee pollen
Wine yeast

This is all raw, the yeast is the only questionable part.

Loose the yeast add water kefir grains et voila healthy probiotic kefir wine

Haai · « **Reply #42 on:** May 04, 2011, 09:16:29 pm »

Quote from: HIT_it_RAW on May 04, 2011, 09:09:16 pm

Ones you get your water-kefir going you could try brewing things like ginger-ale. Or distill your water kefir to get a vodka like liqor

Yeh I think I'll definitely try brewing something. I like the idea of apple cider or pear cider. When using the waterkefir grains, is it necessary to add a load of spring water to the mix or can you use just pure fruit juice?

HIT_it_RAW · « **Reply #43 on:** May 04, 2011, 09:38:34 pm »

Quote from: Haai on May 04, 2011, 09:16:29 pm

Yeh I think I'll definitely try brewing something. I like the idea of apple cider or pear cider. When using the waterkefir grains, is it necessary to add a load of spring water to the mix or can you use just pure fruit juice?

Pure fruit juice kills kefir over time. The grains get a brownish coating and stop growing. check out this site it has loads of info http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/Makekefir.html
His grains look insanely healthy so i think he knows what he is doing

My ginger brew should be ready tonight. I also got some vegetable juice brewing with kefir. I take out half every day and ad some fresh juice and a tiny bit of sugar to keep the kefir happy. ATM I have a carrot, spinach, parsley, mint juice. I love the taste of those fermented juices.

RPD saturday night: get drunk on kefir wine/ginger ale and nibble beef jerky

laterade · « **Reply #44 on:** May 05, 2011, 02:10:47 pm »

Quote from: SkinnyDevil on May 04, 2011, 08:41:06 pm

Bring on the absinthe!

Someday, someday..
San Pedro mead sounds more attractive to me though.

Quote from: Haai on May 04, 2011, 08:59:03 pm

...The reason why i've resisted buying it so far though is because i'm not sure whether it would lead to me treating myself every week... or day....

I don't see what's wrong with consuming a bit of alcohol each day, so long as you have control over your self and eat plenty of fat. I'm finding brew works much better than daily fruit for me.

Quote from: HIT_it_RAW on May 04, 2011, 09:09:16 pm

...Or distill your water kefir to get a vodka like liqorLoose the yeast add water kefir grains et voila healthy probiotic kefir wine

Distilled liquor is not for me

Kefir is yeast and bacteria, at least that is what I have heard.
I'm comfortable with the yeast if only I could find a wild source of 18 percent tolerant, that would be ideal.

Quote from: Haai on May 04, 2011, 09:16:29 pm

...apple cider...

In the cabinet, working on it's magic

HIT_it_RAW · « **Reply #45 on:** May 05, 2011, 02:25:29 pm »

there are thousands of yeasts. The one used by bakers and winemakers is a single type heavily modified due to years of selective "breeding". It's very processed to get that single strain of yeast and has a very potent antinutrient. natural occuring yeast like used in sourdough bread has lots of different yeast in harmony. Its the same with kefir its a complex symbioses of more than 30 types of yeast and bacteria. while regular yeast feeds candida kefir kills it, another reason to use it!