knots/trigger points

[Ioanna]

how to get rid of these???  i've got a bunch of them in my upper back/shoulder/neck area and i'd like to work on getting them out.

[goodsamaritan]

barefoot herbalist MH has Herb Spray III.

See last 5 videos of http://www.barefootherbalistmh.com/page4.html

[Josh]

Use the 'trigger point therapy workbook' by clair davies. You need a reference book.

[goodsamaritan]

Use the 'trigger point therapy workbook' by clair davies. You need a reference book.

Awesome.  Thanks!

http://www.triggerpointbook.com/

[wodgina]

My view.

Forget about them, start doing fun things.

[raw-al]

how to get rid of these???  i've got a bunch of them in my upper back/shoulder/neck area and i'd like to work on getting them out.

If you can reach them push as hard as you can on them with your thumb or fist and hold it in for one to two minutes. Then release. Or if they hurt, pulse in and out. Don't let discomfort hold you back from pushing. It may be bunched up muscles that over time simply become glued together. Do you lean forward? As in a hunch? This is common and I have the problem. (family habit)

If you have someone to help then get them to do the pushing.

Another way is to get a rubber ball,
put it in a sock,
ihrow it over your shoulder and
lean against the wall,
placing the ball on the spot of worst discomfort and
lean or
lay on the floor with the ball in place.

Once in a while I get my GF to walk on my back. It's like heaven.

To get rid of the problem, if it's a leaning forward issue, make a conscious effort to stand straight. My GF and I have a thing going where if she sees me leaning forward she mentions that my nose is in front of my .... well you know. 

To know if you are leaning forward (it is never noticed by you, only others) take a plumb bob or put a weight on the end of a piece of string, hang it from a door casing and stand by it with the string to your side. Get someone to observe.

Stand at your normal stance. Move around till the string passes by the centre of your ear. It should pass through the centre of your shoulders, pass by the center of your hips, the centre of your knees, and the centre of your ankle. If it doesn't, you have a posture issue and you would be well advised to work on it because it will only get worse and exaggerate over time culminating in the typical little old lady/man look as you get older.

This is bad news because the pain you feel now will just get worse and spread. The organs in your body will compress in some areas and not be constrained in others depending on the degree of leaning.

BTW the suggestions re spray will help with the symptoms but for long term I recommend paying attention to posture. Do yoga especially the spinal twist, cobra, fish etc.

There are wooden props you can buy to arch your back and they work well but stacking up towels also works.

[cherimoya_kid]

how to get rid of these???  i've got a bunch of them in my upper back/shoulder/neck area and i'd like to work on getting them out.

Take a few lessons with someone who teaches Esther Gokhale's movement method.

www.egwellness.com

There's probably someone in your area.

First correct posture, then worry about trigger points.

[Josh]

First correct posture, then worry about trigger points

It's not always possible to significantly improve posture without deactivating trigger points. They can both tighter muscles which distorts posture and weaken antagonist muscles so posture is out of balance.

I'm sure there is a lot of value in movement methods - alexander, yoga, the one you linked to, but the posture can improve of it's own accord once trigger points are removed.

It does take a lot of dedication though, not a quick fix but well worth it.

[raw-al]

There are more methods out there than you can shake a vertebrae @ 

There is also Feldenkrais, Rolfing, and a bundle of different massage systems. However they all require money and dedication and may or may not work.

[eveheart]

I use a Thera Cane. It feels great, better than a professional massage IMO.

http://www.theracane.com/

[raw-al]

Here's the one I saw
http://www.fitter1.com/Catalog/Items/BKNOB.aspx

[raw-al]

The device I use and I love it.
http://www.healthbridges.com/howitworks.htm
I use level one

[cherimoya_kid]

It's not always possible to significantly improve posture without deactivating trigger points. They can both tighter muscles which distorts posture and weaken antagonist muscles so posture is out of balance.

I'm sure there is a lot of value in movement methods - alexander, yoga, the one you linked to, but the posture can improve of it's own accord once trigger points are removed.

It does take a lot of dedication though, not a quick fix but well worth it.

Alexander and yoga take much, much longer than Esther Gokhale's work.  Believe me, I know, I've tried them all.

[Dorothy]

Interesting link Cherimoya - thanks for it. She's doing some free on-line classes in my city this week.

Did you ever look closely at the page that the link goes to though? It shows a young dark-skinned man    slumping dressed in shorts and a tea shirt as the "before" shot and an old pasty white guy with gray hair wearing chinos and a plaid long sleeve shirt standing up straight as the "after" photo. It's really funny. Do you think she could make me into that man too? lol.  

[Josh]

Alexander and yoga take much, much longer than Esther Gokhale's work.  Believe me, I know, I've tried them all.

I'm sure there is value in this work, I'm not saying don't try it. It's just that if a muscle has no 'give' in it stretching it will not work well and can aggravate the trigger points. And trying to correct the posture in any way is stretching if you think about how the muscular system and the natural curves of the body work. IMO it's important to get the most important trigger points at least under control, and have an awareness about what's going on with them first.

Conversely, once you have treated muscles it may be useful to do some postural stuff to prevent bad habits forming trigger points once more.

[Dorothy]

Here's the one I saw
http://www.fitter1.com/Catalog/Items/BKNOB.aspx

If you are thinking of getting one raw-al - the one that eveheart linked to I think is better. Those perpendicular bars are very useful... even just as handles.

 

[cherimoya_kid]

I'm sure there is value in this work, I'm not saying don't try it. It's just that if a muscle has no 'give' in it stretching it will not work well and can aggravate the trigger points. And trying to correct the posture in any way is stretching if you think about how the muscular system and the natural curves of the body work. IMO it's important to get the most important trigger points at least under control, and have an awareness about what's going on with them first.

Conversely, once you have treated muscles it may be useful to do some postural stuff to prevent bad habits forming trigger points once more.

I'm not against trigger point work.  I have found, though, that diet and posture both have a huge effect on trigger points. If you're working on the points, but still eating the SAD and moving poorly, it will take 4 or 5 times as long to get the same results, if not more.

You do make a good point about postural problems causing reoccurring trigger point problems.

[Josh]

Fair enough. You have to be holistic in everything in the end really.

[raw-al]

If you are thinking of getting one raw-al - the one that eveheart linked to I think is better. Those perpendicular bars are very useful... even just as handles.

Thanks Dorothy,
I did consider at one point but decided against. I saw it in a health food store window one day and tried it. Too expensive for my tastes. I prefer my GF's Ayurvedic massage 

Another thing which is supposed to be a good idea is an inversion table. My friend and his GF love theirs.

[cherimoya_kid]

Another thing which is supposed to be a good idea is an inversion table. My friend and his GF love theirs.

You can also get somewhat similar results from headstands or handstands. Inversion tables can be good too, I think they stretch the lower back and pelvic area more than a headstand or handstand.

[Ioanna]

raw-al, the health bridges you posted look like something i would love!... they're $$$... i wonder if we have anything like that here?  are you going to increase to level 2, then 3?

[raw-al]

You can also get somewhat similar results from headstands or handstands. Inversion tables can be good too, I think they stretch the lower back and pelvic area more than a headstand or handstand.

Good point. It's just one of those gadget things.  More toys.

[Dorothy]

raw-al, the health bridges you posted look like something i would love!... they're $$$... i wonder if we have anything like that here?  are you going to increase to level 2, then 3?

loanna - I think I get more benefit personally from laying backwards over the edge of my bed. I can increase how much arch I get this way subtly. I also let my legs hang backwards over the edge so that my pelvis can open bending back. Eventually you get to where you can just do a backwards arch from laying on the floor working slowly up to it.

http://www.abc-of-yoga.com/info/wheel-pose.asp

Those bridges all showed are a nice place to start but soon most people that eat well will move past them so if they are too expensive - maybe just put parts of yourself off the edge of the bed like I do? You can position yourself to open each vertebra separately this way by putting just a little more pressure on it which feels very nice and works on the spot you most need too. You can get as much or as little arch as you like this way - and you can increase or decrease also just by using pillows to lay over. The benefit of the bed is that you can also stretch your neck and you can place your arms out to the side and get a great stretch for your chest and arms that you can't do with one of those bridges.

You also don't have to get out of bed to find anything...... you can do yoga as you're falling out of bed in the morning like I do. hee hee 

[raw-al]

One that i really like and costs nothing, is to find something to hang from. Hold onto something overhead like a bar, and just hang with nothing under your feet. Feels absolutely fantastic.