Acid/Alkaline Theory of Disease Is Nonsense?

[Coatue]

What do you guys think of this article? : http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html

[TylerDurden]

Please put such topics in the off topic or hot topics forum.

[ys]

It was created as a way to promote plant-based food.  But yes, bunch of nonsense.

[raw]

i'm not sure. still our own body is a mystery sometimes. the consequences after you have a particular diet would be the best observation.  most of us see the great benefit of raw meat diet. so all of these researches could be a crap. 

[majormark]

Aajonus says that human digestive system should be more naturally acidic and geared toward digesting meat.

[MoonStalkeR]

Some of these theories also focus on food combining (not eating acidic and alkaline foods together)

[RawZi]

Certain foods can leave end-products called ash that can make your urine acid or alkaline, but urine is the only body fluid that can have its acidity changed by food or supplements. ALKALINE-ASH FOODS include fresh fruit and raw vegetables. ACID-ASH FOODS include ALL ANIMAL PRODUCTS

It was created as a way to promote plant-based food...

    I think it's just that plant based people thought it up out of health need.  Their diet is not the healthiest, so they needed to discover as much as they could.  They found that they needed to alkalinize themselves.  They assumed that onto us, saying all people need to alkalinize.  We see it written in something for health or scientific observation, and it's just confusion.

still our own body is a mystery sometimes. the consequences after you have a particular diet would be the best observation.  most of us see the great benefit of raw meat diet. so all of these researches could be a crap.

    Our diet is reverse of the plant based people who push alkaline diet, & most of us have tried their diets extensively.

Aajonus says that human digestive system should be more naturally acidic and geared toward digesting meat.

    Human babies who breastfeed, doesn't matter if back in paleolithic time or now, or if the mother is veg or not, baby has acidic system, and is healthy. Commercial formula babies have alkaline systems and flubbery arms and legs and take longer to learn. Human babies can eat chewed raw meat, raw egg yolks and raw liver healthfully from the start, but not neolithic carb foods.  Raw meat digests better with raw warm mom's breastmilk than apples, carrots or string beans do. If aajonus says what you said, I think he's onto something, and human babies become (surprise!) human adults.  This may bring us to that how we adapted to alkaline diet as a baby has many bearings on how we are with other foods later on, Idk. I think alkaline diet may be alright in Summer, but not Winter.  I think aajonus says less meat and more dairy in Summer, and that dairy without meat is too alkalinizing.

theories also focus on food combining (not eating acidic and alkaline foods together)

    Truthfully I always ignored alk/acid stuff.  I know my urine was always extremely alkaline when I was very ill.  I have also met and spent time with beautiful skinny as bones vegans who were possibly dying of "out of control" alkalinity.  Acid is certainly not bad for all or what everyone should aim away from.  It's more important that we are well.

[cliff]

Its not really a theory as acid/base balance of food is real, if it has an effect on health that is a whole different subject.  These acid/base food charts are often based on pseudoscience tho, here's an article on the concept and the actual base/balance of foods based on real science http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/bases.htm.  Its actually extremely easy to keep you diet base if you eat any sort of plant food.

[TylerDurden]

I'm glad that quackwatch is against acid/alkali diets. Quackwatch has damned a number of people I am wary of such as D'Adamo:-

http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEducation/NegativeBR/d'adamo.html

and Weston-Price:-

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html

[raw-al]

What do you guys think of this article? : http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html

I just noticed that this "expert" has written books on "low fat diet".
http://www.drmirkin.com/nutrition/8315.html

Kind of puts the kybosh to his other theories

[TylerDurden]

I just noticed that this "expert" has written books on "low fat diet".
http://www.drmirkin.com/nutrition/8315.html

Kind of puts the kybosh to his other theories

It is impossible for any human to be perfect, so it is understandable that he isn't either.  The way I see it, most diet gurus out there have at least something useful to add, whether Aajonus or Burger or Cordain or the quackwatch guy. Expecting perfection often leads one to idolise just 1 diet guru, and that causes problems as no one guy has all the right answers.

[raw-al]

It is impossible for any human to be perfect, so it is understandable that he isn't either.  The way I see it, most diet gurus out there have at least something useful to add, whether Aajonus or Burger or Cordain or the quackwatch guy. Expecting perfection often leads one to idolise just 1 diet guru, and that causes problems as no one guy has all the right answers.

True.
However I do think that there is something to the acid/alkaline thing as if I eat acidic foods (fruit, hot spices etc.) I have dire reactions. This of course would lead one to say "don't eat them", which is of course true. But...

I know that a friend of mine has a contraption that filters tapwater and then runs it over some rocks etc that makes the water less acidic and it tastes wonderful. Otherwise the only way I can drink water is if it's Perrier.

Ayurveda explains all this as the aversion to sour is because of a Pitta imbalance.

[TylerDurden]

Err, most fruits appear to be alkaline in terms of end-product. Only cranberries and a very few other fruits are actually acid-forming. I recall that even citrus-fruits end up as alkali end-products in the body:-

http://www.rense.com/1.mpicons/acidalka.htm

[raw-al]

Err, most fruits appear to be alkaline in terms of end-product. Only cranberries and a very few other fruits are actually acid-forming. I recall that even citrus-fruits end up as alkali end-products in the body:-

http://www.rense.com/1.mpicons/acidalka.htm

True again, but in the pre-digestive state they are "sour as all get out".

I get a number of reactions from sore throat to cankers. If I eat enough I get very sick, and ulcers further on down the GI tract. A friend of mine's wife was/is Pitta aggrivated big time. She has a temper to suit and she loved to drink a certain very sour drink. I mentioned it to her and she said "Go F#@k yourself" . (in a true Pitta fashion)

Anyways she used "Sensodyne" the local anesthetic toothpaste, because she had such Pitta (acidity) issues in her mouth that she got toothaches etc. Eventually the silly twit had her teeth all removed as the pain was so chronic. The problem is that when you disregard this warning signal from your body, the issues keep on building up in the body and she had further serious issues including a nervous breakdown and she ended up in an awesomely crazy divorce.

Ayurveda refers to pre-digestive and post-digestive effects. Most things change their affect after digestion. Banana and cranberry are some exceptions. Cranberry as you say doesn't change and that is why it is useful for prostate issues as I recall.

However having said all this about that.....   my experience is that eating raw meat and AV's other suggestions seems to have gotten rid of the Pitt issues. One day I will get the Doc to check (pulse diagnosis) me to see if that's true.

[RawZi]

most fruits appear to be alkaline in terms of end-product. Only cranberries and a very few other fruits are actually acid-forming. I recall that even citrus-fruits end up as alkali end-products in the body

    Right.  Tree ripened citrus has always been said to be alkalinizing.

[Sally]

I followed Dr.Young's "pH Miracle for Weight Loss" pretty much to the letter for 4-5 months.
I read that article during this time and it pissed me off.
I don't know who's book or website "Gabe Mirkin, M.D." is writing about, but I got the distinct impression that he has never read any of dr.Young's books or any of the other acid/alkaline books that I have thumbed through. 
I have no idea who he is trying to discredit because, it's like he doesn't understand the acid/alkaline theory.

"Anyone who tells you that certain foods or supplements make your stomach or blood acidic does not understand nutrition."

I have not read any claims by dr.Young or others that you can change the acidity of the blood or the stomach more than extremely slightly (I'm talking hundredths of a pH point)

The idea is that all your body's processes are acidifying except for digestion.  Digestion actually uses up acid, leaving behind an ash to alkalize your body.  If you eat foods that require a lot of acid to be produced, it has a net positive affect, drawing more acid out of your body.

The way I look at it is, say I'm going to eat 2000 calories today.  I can either eat 2000 calories of food that is very easy to digest, and my stomach will have to produce very little acid to break it down.
Or I can eat a whole bunch of "alkalizing" foods for which I'll have to produce more stomach acid to break down therefore slightly reducing the acid levels in my body. 
It's something that you can appreciate when you are used to eating alkaline, and you opt for a couple acidic meals in row...heart burn.  You didn't need nearly as much acid to digest that McDonalds or what ever and now you're left with an excess.
That's why dr.young calls the stomach an alkalizing organ, not because he's an idiot, but because it is the only organ that consumes acid stores in your body.

"You should not believe that it matters whether foods are acidic or alkaline, because no foods change the acidity of anything in your body except your urine. Your stomach is so acidic that no food can change its acidity. Citrus fruits, vinegar, and vitamins such as ascorbic acid or folic acid do not change the acidity of your stomach or your bloodstream. An entire bottle of calcium pills or antacids would not change the acidity of your stomach for more than a few minutes."

Yes your stomach controls it's acidity.  That is the point.  The more alkalizing things you put in it, the more work you will involuntarily do in creating a stronger stomach acid which has a net alkalizing affect on your body.  The body gets rid of excess acidity through your urine, so the more acid you put in that body, the harder your kidneys have to work to pass it through.  the theory is that your body resists this extra work and begins storing the acid in your fat.  Then your body resists again when you try to burn off the fat, because the kidneys then have to go to work dealing with that acid.  For me, it explained why I would always hit a wall when trying to lose weight.

"All foods that leave your stomach are acidic. Then they enter your intestines where secretions from your pancreas neutralize the stomach acids. So no matter what you eat, the food in stomach is acidic and the food in the intestines is alkaline."

Yes, Gabe Mirkin, M.D, is probably absolutely right about this, and I don't think dr,Young would disagree with him.  Who the hell is this guy arguing with?

"When you take in more protein than your body needs, your body cannot store it, so the excess amino acids are converted to organic acids that would acidify your blood. But your blood never becomes acidic because as soon as the proteins are converted to organic acids, calcium leaves your bones to neutralize the acid and prevent any change in pH. Because of this, many scientists think that taking in too much protein may weaken bones to cause osteoporosis."

Dr Young also says that your body draws calcium out of your bones to keep your blood pH back to normal.  That sounds like a very shitty consequence of eating too many acidic foods to me.

Anyway I think you get the point.  My personal opinon about the alkaline diet is that it probably increases longevity, is certainly good for weight loss, and cancer prevention, but I have observed that I had low energy levels on it, and I get the same vibe from others I know who were on it, and also from people like Dr. Young himself.

I think that this guy wrote a very slanted and unresearched article, and he is probably a closed minded old fart.

I would be interested to know what Dr. Young thinks about eating raw meat.  I know he is against cooked meat.  But I haven't been able to find out his opinion on the matter.

[Hans89]

Has anyone been following Matt Stone's blog recently? Lots of people trying the RBTI and seeing real results. Seems like acid / alkaline is only part of the equation, though an important one. Unlike the acid/alkaline people tend to think, however, it's not like everybody is too acid. You may well be too alkaline (like me) which also causes problems.