reply to a vegan argument against animal protein

[Joy2012]

The following statement is from a vegan medical doctor.  (I do respect his opinions on certain health issues.) It is opinions from such scientists that make me worry about my new RP diet...whether consuming meat long-term is beneficial ...

Will someone present a valid/science-based counter argument to his argument?  I will really appreciate. Thanks.

A high animal protein diet is likely to teach your body to digest (break down, destroy) animal proteins such as muscle (meat). Although a younger person can overcome this with a lot of exercise, in due course it tends to weaken the muscles. It also makes your body very protein dependent so that all the proteins in your body (muscle as well as collagen) become "targets" for digestion. This will increase the turnover of these tissues. The more a tissue has been turned over, the older it is (each cell can divide only a finite number of times.. read about the telomeres).

Thus I will remain vegetarian/vegan…On the long term I believe this will slow down the aging process relative to a diet rich in animal...

[TylerDurden]

This sort of topic should only appear in the Hot Topics forum, not in general discussions forum.


The above is total nonsense. When one is digesting foods one is only digesting the proteins etc. in that food, we are not digesting or breaking down the proteins in our muscles etc.

[raw-al]

Wow! Quite the theory.

Just because a person is a doctor does not give them the right to make up wild and crazy theories or make it any more likely to be accurate. In fact I would say that the whole theory of his should be surrounded by the usual statement that this theory has not been tested or arrived at by anything other than a vivid imagination.

According to this theory then if a body is capable of breaking down anything in the digestive process then it is capable of breaking it down in the body.

Since going raw from a cooked vege diet of 23 years, my teeth have stopped becoming uncomfortable, periodontal issues have evaporated, I eat a heck of a lot less and don't feel starved at meal time.

[ys]

of course this is nonsense.  the good news is the rise of veganism keeps meat prices down. if someone chooses not to eat meat it'll be more meat for me.

[Dorothy]

Joy, instead of asking us non-MDs to give scientifically credible rebuttals - how about asking the MD to site you some actual scientific studies and data to support his claims?

Just in terms of every day common sense I can't see any logic in his argument. If eating protein makes you more efficient at breaking down proteins in your body then if you eat lots of minerals will that then teach the body to break down all your mineral reserves more efficiently? Does eating anything teach the body to break it down outside of the digestive tract? Wouldn't that mean that he has to avoid seaweed and high mineral content fruits and vegetables? Why is protein different than any other element that we break down and use in our bodies?

But it's really up to the doctor reccomending a radical diet to you to be able to give you some science to back up his claims and to explain it to you in a way that makes even a little bit of common sense.

[van]

You also might want to quote Dr. Ron Rosedale's works where he talks about sugar burners who's blood sugar drops and they consume their own muscle indiscriminately to raise blood sugar levels.  Talk about wasting muscles....

[Joy2012]

Thanks to all who gave me some food for thought. It comforts me that you obviously believe eating raw animal flesh is not harmful, based on your own experience I trust. Personal experiences/testimonials are very valuable in my view, since so many "experts" proclaim differing theories.

I may quiz this doctor in some future time when I put all my thoughths together. He is an expert on fasting and whole raw vegan food diet and claims to have helped 10000+ patients recover from diseases at his retreat/hospital. I do benefit very much from his advice on fasting.

One thing he advises about fasting is that one should eat very-high-fat meals on the day prior to fasting, which will direct (give a hint to) the body to consume body fat as the fast starts--so ketones are produced early and hunger is minimized. I have found this advice very useful. So eating fat does give a hint to the body to consume body fat....That is why I cannot totally dismiss his advice that eating animal protein "directs/gives a hint to" one's body to consume animal protein (which includes human muscles).

On the other hand, my own personal experience is: During my 3 months of high-animal-flesh diet, I put on some new musles...But this doctor is talking about AGING caused by high-turning-over of tissue/muscles.

[raw-al]

Ayurveda generally recommends eating lots of ghee (clarified butter) prior to doing a cleanse. This is to douse the digestive fire and reduce food cravings, as well as to evacuate the GI tract. It is done in a  specific manner BTW, you don't just chow down on ghee. It will make you sick if you eat too much at once. It is done over multi days depending on the person. Also whilst doing this your diet is restricted so you don't feel nauseous.

However one is not fasting after the cleanse. The cleanse can be one day or many days depending on the condition of the person, which afflictions they have etc. They eat a light, easy to diget diet specific to the person.