Coconut oil

[aLptHW4k4y]

The coconut cream comes in cans, so I suppose that's what preserves it?
Coconut oil is resistant to going rancid much more than vegetable oils, because it's highly saturated.

[RawZi]

    aLptH, I think that Letseczema meant AV style pd coconut cream.

[PaleoPhil]

My favourite Virgin Coconut Oil is sold by Wilderness Family Naturals as found here: http://www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com/.  It's so much better than all of the other, so-called, 'raw' oils I've tried that it's worth the expense and time importing it from the US.  Highly recommended!

Hi Phil,

Here is some more info regarding Wilderness Family Naturals EV Coconut Oil.
The centrifuged virgin coconut oil is exposed to maximum temperatures of 40° C (about 104° F) and the cold-pressed coconut oil is processed at about 98.6° F or 37° C. Neither oil is exposed to extremely "low" or high temperatures. If you go to there website: www.wildernessfamilynaturals.com ( I apologize Phil, I gave you the wrong web address, I forgot to add "Naturals" at the end) and go to the FAQ's you can get even more info regarding why this is the best EVCO in the market! I hope you give it a shot! My body seems to agree with this brand. Probably due to the extraction at lower temperatures. This is the ONLY EVCO I recommend!!!

Wow! Michael and Chris were right. My thanks to these gentle men. Wilderness Family Naturals kicks ass over Artisana, Nutiva and other so-called raw coconut products. It tastes way better and seems to be much more digestible for me. Wish I had tried it first instead of the other junk. If I fare well on it in the longer run, I'll add it to my staple foods.

I miss Michael, who was one of the best contributors to this forum. Wish Dorothy could have been here at the time. I'm sure they would have hit it off.

coconut butter is far Superior in taste and digestibility compaired to oil.
please take the challenge.try a Jar (IM totally addicted to the stuff)  ...

http://livesuperfoods.com/raw-foods/coconut/artisana-coconut-butter.html

Have you tried Wildnerness Family Naturals, Sabertooth? I find it to be way better than Artisana coconut butter, which makes me ill just thinking about it. I have both (I resorted to eating small bits of Artisana mixed with honey and water to get it down). I find it difficult to imagine anyone bothering with Artisana any more after trying WFN.

Even WFN is not my favorite food by any means, but I found by accident that when the room temperature is warmer and it turns to liquid it's even more palatable and digestible, so I may warm it a bit on colder days.

[Ioanna]

paleo phil, does wfn cause you any nausea? 

[PaleoPhil]

I put it to a bigger test today. Ate a whole tablespoon of it in its solid state. It wasn't pleasant, but it wasn't horrendous like others. It gave me a slight feeling of malaise, which might be due to association of the taste with nausea from other coconut products, but no actual noticeable nausea. Then I warmed it to a liquid and there were no noticeable negative effects and it had a relatively neutral, very mild taste similar to Thai coconut water (though not as good), which I find to be the most palatable part of the natural coconut. I also tried this at the same time with Nutiva "cold-pressed" coconut oil and Artisana "raw" coconut butter and found that the other two still tasted nasty. There's no comparison. For me, WFN kicks their asses.

Interestingly, the WFN even looks better than the Nutiva cold-pressed. It's hard to describe, but I would say the WFN has a smoother, more uniform, softer appearance. Also interesting is that when I gently melted the Nutiva, it brought out more of a burnt flavor, which suggests to me that they do use heat in their processing.

The key seems to be to get a "centrifuged" coconut oil rather than "cold-pressed." I discovered that Nutiva does have a centrifuged version, but it's currently out of stock: http://nutiva.com/coconut-info/nutiva-raw-centrifuge-coconut-oil-is-out-of-stock/

[Ioanna]

paleo phil, thanks so much for the info! i've been doing all sorts of 'experiments' to get coconut oil to work as a fat for me. i'm going to give it a try!

[PaleoPhil]

Good luck, fair warning that even the WFN is not particularly appealing to me, taste-wise. Instead of a staple, it would be more accurate to say I'm considering it as a secondary or tertiary food for me; something I'm considering keeping in stock but probably not eating a lot of. I like having as many healthy fat options as possible.

[Adora]

Do you know what do they expeller press it with?

[PaleoPhil]

I don't know, but I know that I have read that expeller pressing can generate heat and I just found an article that said that "cold-pressing" only keeps temps below 120 degrees (http://www.ehow.com/facts_5829685_expeller-pressed-vs_-cold-pressed.html), which I find is more than enough heat to diminish the quality of many foods.

[Iguana]

120° F = 49° C

But your link states :

Expeller pressing generates heat in the range of 140 to 210 degrees F, and this heat is not regulated.

That is 60 to 99° C, not 49° C ! 

Yeah, "cold pressed" oils are not raw : the pressure extracting process elevates the temperature and generates abnormal molecules, just like cooking. Anyway, our paleo ancestors could hardly extract, collect, store and drink oils, could they ? Are apes in the wild drinking oils ? 

[Ioanna]

Anyway, our paleo ancestors could hardly extract, collect, store and drink oils, could they ? Are apes in the wild drinking oils ? 

our paleo ancestors were not raised to eat by the same food pyramid guide as I was. 20+ years on 'rubbish' (as td would say  ) and i'm not digesting animal fats well at all.  coconut oil seems to be easy to digest for now so i'm not fueling off of carbs or proteins... i can tell the difference when i workout.  raw butter seems okay too (i know it's dairy, but it works for now), but it will be out of season soon. 

if you have a better suggestion, iguana, please do let me know.

[Iguana]

if you have a better suggestion, iguana, please do let me know.

Plain natural matured-in-jar olives, plain coconuts, avocados, safus, almonds, macadamias, pecans, walnuts, hazelnuts, pine nuts, brazil nuts, sunflower seeds, chufas, raw peanuts, cold-extracted cashew nuts, pistachios, durians...

[PaleoPhil]

120° F = 49° C

But your link states :
That is 60 to 99° C, not 49° C ! 

That's for "expeller pressing." Under "cold pressing" it says "Cold-pressed oils are kept below 120 degrees F during the expeller-pressing process."

Yeah, "cold pressed" oils are not raw : the pressure extracting process elevates the temperature and generates abnormal molecules, just like cooking.

Quite correct, and it's amazing how much better "centrifuged" coconut oil is than "cold pressed."

[jessica]

paleophil, are there brands available that are centrifuged?  i am enjoying dried coconut flakes, i basically use them as a snack, chew them up and spit most of the fiber out...so basically making coconut oil in my mouth

[PaleoPhil]

Yes, Wilderness Family Naturals and Nutiva sell centrifuged coconut oil (Nutiva is currently out of stock), as I mentioned above. I've only tried the WFN brand of centrifuged oil. For Nutiva, I've only tried their "cold-pressed" version (which is actually heated, they only claim that it doesn't reach a temp of 120 degrees F).

Iguana, FYI - it's not currently legal to sell truly raw almonds in the USA (http://naturemoms.com/blog/2007/10/24/the-death-of-the-raw-almonds-take-action-now/). The only state I've seen so far with reports of durians being sold in the USA is California. I found that buying internationally, including from the source you gave, costs more than I'm interested in paying (which may not be an issue for some folks, of course).

FWIW, I do eat the meat and water from coconuts, but I am considering adding centrifuged coconut oil as another food. I'm not into Paleo or Instincto re-enactment, so the fact that Stone Agers didn't consume oils in and of itself doesn't bother me.  I've also been experimenting with pastured butter, which Stone Agers also didn't consume. In my case, I didn't notice any benefits from including nuts, including truly raw nuts, in my diet (unless you count coconut as a sort of "nut," given that the colloquial definition of "nut" is vague), and do experience some mild negatives if I eat too much raw nuts (particularly raw or "raw-blanched" peanuts, though I do believe that some people can handle eating plenty of them fine). To each his own.

[Iguana]

Iguana, FYI - it's not currently legal to sell truly raw almonds in the USA (http://naturemoms.com/blog/2007/10/24/the-death-of-the-raw-almonds-take-action-now/).

!! 
Then there are still some solutions :
- find a outlaw-grower
- maraud almonds in an cultivated orchard (wear a bullet-proof vest as a safety precaution)
- collect almonds from abandoned trees (there are plenty abandoned almond trees in southern Europe – if there are none in US, fly to Perpignan or Barcelona)
- drive to Mexico and buy almonds there
- buy a land and plant almond trees (you'll have to wait a few years to have your own raw almonds)
- buy an orchard with already grown almonds trees 
- write to Obama and ask him the freedom to buy raw almonds 

The only state I've seen so far with reports of durians being sold in the USA is California.

I found fresh whole durians in China Town of NYC and other US big cities as well as in Toronto. That was in 1993, perhaps now there are no more or they must be irradiated for import?
 

In my case, I didn't notice any benefits from including nuts, including truly raw nuts, in my diet

What kind of benefit do you expect from a foodstuff except nourishing yourself?

[PaleoPhil]

LOL, good jokes. It's only a little over 3,000 km to Mexico from here. 

Thanks for the info about durians. If I'm ever in NYC or Toronto again I'll keep an eye peeled for them.

What kind of benefit do you expect from a foodstuff except nourishing yourself?

I didn't say "expect"--I just reported that I haven't noticed the sorts of benefits from raw nuts that I get from other raw Paleo foods. A mostly raw Paleo diet has provided much more in the way of benefits for me than just nourishment. You can read my journal if you're curious about it. Heck, I could eat a SAD if all I needed and wanted was nourishment.

[jessica]

there are actually plenty of walnuts and pecans ripe and free for the picking from the western slope of colorado all the way down through mexico....seriously all over the place, i picked em and sold em at the market last year $4/lb, just what i scored off the side walk

[Iguana]

I didn't say "expect"--I just reported that I haven't noticed the sorts of benefits from raw nuts that I get from other raw Paleo foods. A mostly raw Paleo diet has provided much more in the way of benefits for me than just nourishment. You can read my journal if you're curious about it. Heck, I could eat a SAD if all I needed and wanted was nourishment.

A SAD diet nourish but at the same time brings toxins. Suppressing the countless chemicals substances (either synthetic or produced by heating organic molecules) and other “abnormal” molecules it contains, we suppress a major cause (commonly the main cause) of health troubles. 

A raw (paleo) diet is the normal diet, the one that about all the animals (including hominids and humans) have ever had since they appeared on Earth, millions or hundreds millions years ago. The duration of Neolithic and modern  era being about nil in comparison, Neolithic and modern diets should be considered as abnormal.

Thus, it is illogical (it doesn’t makes sense, if you prefer, Jessica!) to consider that a normal diet brings any benefit. It is rather that an abnormal diet causes troubles and by suppressing the cause, these troubles eventually disappear.

Metaphorically, it is like if we had always filled the tank of our car with a wrong fuel and then finally switch to the right fuel, the one the engine had been engineered for. Is the right fuel bringing benefits or was it the wrong fuel causing troubles? 

Cheers
François

[PaleoPhil]

A SAD diet nourish but at the same time brings toxins.

Yes, thanks for making my point that eating nuts and other foods is not only about nourishment. It's also about toxins and other factors, the overall effects and aspects of foods above and beyond nourishment, else I could just as well eat a SAD diet. Raw nuts have been one of the lesser Paleo fuels for me, whereas for you it sounds like they have been a premium fuel. So it makes sense that they would form a more important part of your diet than mine.

[Iguana]

 

Raw nuts have been one of the lesser Paleo fuels for me, whereas for you it sounds like they have been a premium fuel. So it makes sense that they would form a more important part of your diet than mine.

Not sure nuts are a premium fuel for me as I generally prefer animal foods such as shellfish, fish, meat and eggs. But if it happens that I have no animal food at the moment or if I’m still hungry after eating some RAF and then some veggies, I may eat nuts next. They don’t cause any troubles nor any digesting discomfort as long as we avoid eating too many, stopping intake as soon as a feeling that we have enough appears. Thus, it’s one more indication that they can be considered paleo.

[PaleoPhil]

Not sure nuts are a premium fuel for me as I generally prefer animal foods such as shellfish, fish, meat and eggs.

Same here, thanks for sharing.

But if it happens that I have no animal food at the moment or if I’m still hungry after eating some RAF and then some veggies, I may eat nuts next. They don’t cause any troubles nor any digesting discomfort as long as we avoid eating too many, stopping intake as soon as a feeling that we have enough appears. Thus, it’s one more indication that they can be considered paleo.

I do consider them "Paleo"--even "jungle peanuts" and perhaps ordinary raw "peanuts" (and you are one of the few Paleos that agree with me on that)--and I suspect that it's the disorder in my own biological systems due to decades of my and my parents' eating grains, pasteurized dairy, vegetable oils, etc., that results in no noticeable benefits from, and poor digestion of, nuts.

For people like me who obtain no noticeable benefits from nuts, and even problems from more than small amounts of nuts, centrifuged coconut oil may be another option to try. Yes, it's not purely raw Paleo, but if it helps, I'm not going to knock it. In my case, the jury is still out. We'll see.

[van]

I've ordered and eaten about 8-10 gallons of it over the last few years.