Author Topic: Ayurveda  (Read 7210 times)

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Offline raw-al

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Ayurveda
« on: January 28, 2014, 07:11:36 am »
I get a nasty very sharp, very odd reaction if I  eat any salt. I  get a burning sensation if I try to eat (allegedly?)raw, sundried bee pollen. I do feel too warm if I eat more than a little cooked food, but it isn't as harsh as the heat I get from the pollen.
You have a fair amount of Pitta in your physiology, meaning that if your body's attributes were examined under an Ayurvedic lens, you would have a large proportion of Pitta characteristics. I am the same.

Scroll to the end of the PDF here and you'll see what I mean. http://ayurveda.com/pdf/food-guidelines.pdf

Funnily enough I can eat 'raw' honey all day with no problems even though it is supposed to aggravate Pitta. However I have to have around twice as much butter with it or it will not be comfortable.

Processed honey is bad news for anybody but especially my body type.
Cheers
Al

Offline Iguana

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 03:34:51 am »
You have a fair amount of Pitta in your physiology, meaning that if your body's attributes were examined under an Ayurvedic lens, you would have a large proportion of Pitta characteristics. I am the same.

Raw-Al, I’m always astonished that as an airplane pilot, you on one hand dismiss most of rational scientific work as bogus and on the other hand accept the Ayurvedic groundless dogmas and beliefs without any criticism.

Science is not dogmatic: it doesn’t pretend to hold the absolute and ultimate truth. It’s rather a constant questioning of nature, suggesting provisional answers that can and must be questioned in turn.

Cheers
François
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline raw-al

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2014, 04:54:53 am »
Raw-Al, I’m always astonished that as an airplane pilot, you on one hand dismiss most of rational scientific work as bogus and on the other hand accept the Ayurvedic groundless dogmas and beliefs without any criticism.

Science is not dogmatic: it doesn’t pretend to hold the absolute and ultimate truth. It’s rather a constant questioning of nature, suggesting provisional answers that can and must be questioned in turn.

Cheers
François

Iguana,
My problem with science is that it is very myopic/reductionist and fraught with PPL who are not completely forthright in their reasons for doing it. Science costs a lot of money and that money has to come from somewhere. As far as science not being dogmatic, I want to drink whatever it is you are drinking. ;)

At one time science was real and pure, but now it is an industry, whether those involved with it like to admit or not. I have plenty of relatives who are worshippers at the temple of Sciencism and they would not be too anxious to try out a raw diet as you are well aware, because of their religious belief in the dogma of Sciencism. (bacteria etc)

My statements and your statements are of course broad sweeping BS generalizations because not all science or scientists are dogmatic and some Ayurveda or Ayurvedists (LOL there is no such word) are dogmatic.

I am not against research and learning, as is witnessed by my participation in this diet/community. Everything about this diet was opposite my prior diet/beliefs. Ayurveda makes no mention of eating raw or cooked and is not a vege diet at all. It is nothing like the modern version that you are most likely speaking of.

I learned about Ayurveda from another community that surrounded itself with the best and the brightest and has performed a lot of good science to investigate both Ayurveda and meditation. My Ayurvedic Doctor friend (Vaidya) also has a year of Allopathic training in which he learned about the  different pharmaceuticals and their effects on the Doshas.

The Ayurveda in the original books (Charaka Samhita, Sushruta Samhita, etc) that I own and have read other PPL's versions of, talk about eating meat, smoking various herbs and a wide variety of things to bring PPL back to a healthy state.

Mostly it is common sense when you read it and the way that I heard it, the books were written when the PPL were moving down from the hill country in what is now Afghanistan where they ate a mostly wild game diet and were changing to a grain based farming diet which of course was the start of serious disease. The Doctors at the time decided to actually write down their oral medicine and that is where the Caraka Samhita came from. I heard that story but it may have been a myth.

Ayurveda is a highly developed system of medicine. Not sure why you pan it as often as you can, but it's not likely that I will ever change your mind.

As a pilot I used to fly with two guys. We would swap seats as we were all Captains. These guys were perpetually sick with something or another. We would swap headsets and were sitting about a foot or two from each other for the four and a half each day. Despite the fact that I was a vege for all that time (23 years) I never caught any of their illnesses. I watched one guy go from Doctor to Doctor to specialist and try every 'scientifically' derived medicine known to man for about a year with one health issue. Finally I went to him gave him some simple Ayurvedic stuff and voila. No more problem in about 5 minutes.

You sound like the guy/girl that had one relationship that went south and so you have sworn off relationships.

I am surprised that you as a professional writer do not investigate before giving opinions on something you know nothing about.
Cheers
Al

Offline Iguana

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2014, 05:34:48 am »
Thanks, but still Ayurveda is a medicine, as you say. Medicine, be it modern, ancient or ayurvedic, may suppress symptoms but it fails to address the root causes.

We should not confuse the ideal science with its corruption by human biases and greed.  ;)
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline raw-al

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2014, 06:27:23 am »
Thanks, but still Ayurveda is a medicine, as you say. Medicine, be it modern, ancient or ayurvedic, may suppress symptoms but it fails to address the root causes.
That is the beauty of Ayurveda, it is all about prevention. That is why I rarely get sick. I don't buy any medicines except for one supplement that I take regularly because it has a lot of natural vit c and I lived in the north of Canada where food quality was marginal at best.

I used to get a liver support supplement, because as I found out that being a vege meant I was getting low quality iron and protein. However when I started this diet the weak liver lasted quite awhile and a friend treated me with a Rife device and cured it overnight. This was verified on my pilot medical blood test where my alinine transaminase went from 71 down to 40 (normal 12 to 49). He also cured my prostate enlargement that I blame on pasteurized milk, and the cankers I had since I worked a shiftwork job out of high school.

The Rife http://www.rifewiki.org/wiki/Main_Page technology was created by a brilliant 'scientist' who was driven out of business and harassed  constantly for years by both the "scientific" Allopaths and the 'Drug Cartel' who were terrified of losing their jobs to the 'scientist' who came up with possibly the best medical device on the planet. Read about it in Barry Lyne's http://www.amazon.com/Cancer-Cure-That-Worked-Suppression/dp/0982513860/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1390947006&sr=1-1

These so-called believers in the "scientific method" were sh*t-baked that they would be put out of business and so the rest of the "scientific" community banded together and got their "scientist" friends in the government FDA FTC and AMA to run him out of town.

So much for the holy "scientificists". They are as bad as the priests that they supposedly ran out of town.

Now naturally if everyone ate a better diet most of this would be totally beside the point.

We should not confuse the ideal science with its corruption by human biases and greed.  ;)
On that we both agree. Ditto for Ayurveda.

Everyone whether scientist/politician/medical professional/pilot/writer has to make a living. That means charging for services.

The problem is when PPL step over the line and try to create monopolies and force others to buy into their system, and try to peddle useless things, like the Allopaths have succeeded in doing.

The Allopaths are backed up by the largest group of crooks on the planet and those crooks have an enormous # of scientists both in their companies and in first world governments who are all intent on keeping their monopoly strong.

My friend is a stock broker. He tells me that the drug business is consistently on top in the revenue department of all the businesses he watches. You don't get there by accident.

I have absolutely no doubt that if all of the Ayurvedic community had Rockefella et al behind it, as the Allopaths have had, starting around 1910, they would be in the same boat defending itself as the be all and end all. It is human nature to be greedy.

However I learned the basics, became a practitioner and practice on myself and my loved ones. I have never charged a cent and according to the Indian friends I know, that is commonplace in India. I've never been there so I don't know. According to legend, these old natural systems like TCM had practices like: if it didn't work, you don't pay. Can you imagine a heart surgeon guaranteeing that?

If you actually learned about the system, you would see that it is a carefully crafted way of expanding on your own common sense.
Cheers
Al

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2014, 06:45:19 am »
Hmm, I will look into this Ayurveda a  bit more this year. You never know......  I used to laugh at homeopathy until I discovered it had some partial use in removing symptoms temporarily, so .....
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2014, 07:25:19 am »
Hmm, I will look into this Ayurveda a  bit more this year. You never know......  I used to laugh at homeopathy until I discovered it had some partial use in removing symptoms temporarily, so .....
Do this questionaire http://ayurveda.com/pdf/constitution.pdf and then add up the v, p and k column. PM me the result and I'll try to give you some info. I don't have a set of all the info but I'll try.

It isn't rocket science but if you get a good diagnosis you will save yourself  lot of dietary grief.

However having said all of this, I have noticed that since going on this raw diet I can handle a lot more without having issues, but I know how big my cage is.
Cheers
Al

Offline Iguana

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 09:51:25 pm »
Ayurveda is a highly developed system of medicine. Not sure why you pan it as often as you can, but it's not likely that I will ever change your mind

I am surprised that you as a professional writer do not investigate before giving opinions on something you know nothing about.

I know ayurveda is a system of medicine (as you state), and that’s enough. If common bacterial and viral illnesses are a way for the body to expel toxins, then why curb them? On the contrary, we should let them free to do their beneficial work! 

Cheers
François
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline raw-al

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 12:07:22 am »
I know ayurveda is a system of medicine (as you state), and that’s enough. If common bacterial and viral illnesses are a way for the body to expel toxins, then why curb them? On the contrary, we should let them free to do their beneficial work! 
Cheers
François

In my case nature needed a bit of a nudge with my liver and prostate because of prior eating habits so I used the Rife device.

Regarding Ayurveda, we hardly live in a world like our ancestors did. For instance your picture shows you eating a food from the deep ocean which is unlikely part of the diet of a paleo person. You also made your living as a trucker at one point and now as a writer. Both those activities were not likely in a paleo world.
Cheers
Al

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 12:14:48 am »
I'll do that test on Saturday, I just haven't the time right now.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 01:26:19 am »
I know ayurveda is a system of medicine (as you state), and that’s enough. If common bacterial and viral illnesses are a way for the body to expel toxins, then why curb them? On the contrary, we should let them free to do their beneficial work! 
Cheers
François
Iguana,
Occasionally I see posters on here who complain about paleo dogmatics, with the implication that some posters on here get carried away with paleo purism.

I try not to do that but, hunose.... maybe I do.

But I do know one thing and that is that the paleo diet or our version of it is not some magical wand from the heavens that somehow makes us perfectly healthy and blue skinned shining deities that lived for hundreds of years, as the Hindus describe.

Paleos had disease also. We have all seen threads on here where paleos were examined by modern methods and found to have diseases, chronic and acute and  seemed to have short lifespans. They have also lived in areas where they killed off all of the prey they lived off of and ate gawd knows what just to survive. That is the reality of life then and now.

Nowadays we get most of our food from the grocery store and naturally some (me) get a lot from farmers and grow a certain amount of fruit. We have raspberries, grapes, figs, cherries, prune plums, pears, apples on our property. We can get all kinds of seafood not far from here but have not gotten into it yet. Our paleo ancestors would never have had access to that variety of food or different species except in some unique tropical paradise. They would also have had to walk/run to find that food.

So as a consequence PPL got diseases. At some point somebody in the community would notice that when a certain type of disease arose, it was caused by one thing and cured by another. They had no idea what or why, just that it worked. Animals will do this naturally and if you go along with the Evolution 'story' we evolved from animals.

Since disease is not nice to have, these forms of oral or possibly as Rupert Sheldrake has brilliantly pointed out 'morphogenic fields' Morphogenetic Field (Body Field) - Rupert Sheldrake, Ph.D, University of Cambridge contain this information and eventually it was codified into the various books of the various medical systems of the world.

As far as bacteria being scavengers who actually help us to get rid of toxins, I believe that theory to be true, however I have studied a great many disease theories, systems, machines, modalities and I have come to an interim conclusion that disease is caused by a plethora of different things.

Diet is one cause. Our reaction to the world around us, ie. fear, anger, jealousy, covetousness etc is another cause, our addictions is another cause. Lack of certain nutrients in our diet is another, indeed the list would take a long time to enumerate.

Maybe it can be compared to the different levels of reality. In the Newtonian view of the world there is gravity, matter, mass etc. In the Einsteinian view there is not matter, but a series of very tiny things called atoms with lots of space in between. Then on the quantum level of Nils Bor, there is nothing there, just energy and it can pop in and out of existence affecting things millions of miles away.....

The world is not as simplistic as eat paleo and you'll be perfect.

For one thing PPL on this forum come into this diet with ancestral dietary abuse and gawd knows what genetic malformation. You don't go from being a thalidomide child to being a regular dude from eating steak. Beef is not paleo anyways. Cattle are a recent invention. Neither are pigs, chicken and tuna. Even the wild animals nowadays are not real, as a certain proportion live off of the proceeds of farming and human waste.

If you want to put up with an illness, go for it, don't let fear hold you back.
Cheers
Al

Offline Iguana

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 03:35:25 am »
Regarding Ayurveda, we hardly live in a world like our ancestors did. For instance your picture shows you eating a food from the deep ocean which is unlikely part of the diet of a paleo person. You also made your living as a trucker at one point and now as a writer. Both those activities were not likely in a paleo world.

Al, it’s the third time you tell me this argument and I already responded at least a couple of times. Here is the last:

Fish consumption by mammals, including hominids, has occurred during several millions years and became very common since the invention of harpoons and hooks, 150,000 years ago at least. There not more difference between an ocean fish such a tuna and a coastal fish or even a river fish then between zebra and reindeer meat. It’s the same category of foods (fish), as an apple is of the same category (fruit) as a guava.

But, ok, I willingly admit that medicine, be it allopathic or ayurvedic, can sometimes be useful — especially for people who don’t eat 100% raw paleo. It can prevent an illness to runaway out of control and becoming dangerous.   

I did split the thread from "Salt", as Da Boss suggested.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 03:50:33 am by Iguana »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline raw-al

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2014, 05:34:59 am »
Iguana, Thanks for your efforts as admin !

I was speaking in 'purist' terms, but there is no such thing as pure of course.

BTW when the two of us put forth these arguments, we are simply telling the tale to a new audience. Probably only about 10% of PPL who read here on the site actually post.
Cheers
Al

Offline Iguana

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 04:51:54 pm »
You're welcome. The admin is Edwin, alias GS, not me. Yes, there are many more readers than posters!
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline raw-al

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2014, 04:53:41 pm »
I often wonder why. Maybe fear of looking stupid.

I have looking stupid down to a science. :)
Cheers
Al

Offline RogueFarmer

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2014, 04:41:09 am »
ha, just an observation I had. Iguana, airlines are a perfect example of how money and desire trumps science. Airlines are not solvent, they are subsidized by governments with tax payer dollars. Imagine if airlines were not subsidized and had to find ways to actually be profitable. Airplanes would probably be totally different in design.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2014, 05:06:19 am »
ha, just an observation I had. Iguana, airlines are a perfect example of how money and desire trumps science. Airlines are not solvent, they are subsidized by governments with tax payer dollars. Imagine if airlines were not subsidized and had to find ways to actually be profitable. Airplanes would probably be totally different in design.
Typically they turn into cattle cars like the one I flew from Stanstead to Italy. A plane load of screaming babies and sandwich sellers roaming the aisles.
Cheers
Al

Offline Barefoot Instincto

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Re: Ayurveda
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2014, 02:12:42 pm »

 

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