Raw VS Cooked

[Poncho]

I'm compiling evidence here, and I need some solid undeniable proof that RAW meat is critical to achieving optimal health.
I'm 100% for the raw meat, I do not consider abandoning it, I simply want to be able to more effectively explain to people why I eat how I eat.

See, I am all tied up in the world of doctors and whatnot.
It is not my choice.
They really aren't cool with the raw meat.
They are simply just wrong, about nearly everything they know.
It's not their fault really.

But I need to prove myself,
or else I will suffer the consequences.

They are saying that I have not been 'trying' hard enough, because I haven't been obeying the doctors orders and whatnot.
Therefor, I am lazy and deserve to be treated accordingly.

I need to silence them. Help me please.

[cherimoya_kid]

Ask them why MDs in Japan eat raw meat and fish (sashimi) all the time, and have no problem with their patients doing the same thing.  Ask them why there are no epidemics of food poisoning from the tens of thousands of sushi bars popping up all over the Western World.

Do they have a problem with its safety?  The entire Japanese culture pretty much makes that argument look ignorant. For that matter, steak tartare and other raw meat dishes are quite common in Europe. European doctors aren't freaking out about those things.  They would never think to.  It's a longstanding, very safe, cultural practice.

As far as the health benefits, it depends on how heavily cooked the meat it.  Steamed meat has lost some enzymes and some healthy bacteria. Deep-fried meat (or char-grilled meat), at the other end of the spectrum, has lost vitamins as well as enzymes and bacteria, and also contains a lot of cancer-causing compounds, from the overheating of the food.

Your doctors need to go back to med school, once where I am the professor.  Maybe their tiny fucking brains can absorb my awesome greatness, hopefully, for their sake, and their patients' sake.

[Poncho]

Oh they won't even look at the way I eat.
They don't give a shit.

They are far too rigid.

They were both sick, the ones questioning me.
One was obese, the other was a member of the deteriorating old.

They have a problem with me not putting my life in the hands of doctors.
They don't accept that I am taking my life into my own hands, instead.
Because I don't have a degree.
Therefor I am nothing.

I just need legitimate information on the difference between raw and cooked meat, that kind of thing.

[van]

Sometimes we try to convince others when it's ourselves who have doubts.  I can remember that in myself.    Maybe you might consider finding another doctor who at least is open to your diet and lifestyle.    In trying to convince another,,  may I suggest that you find out if it's alright inside if you can't.  Or, how attached are you to persuade?   

[eveheart]

CJ Hunt's documentary The Perfect Human Diet gives a good overview of ancestral eating. I bought a copy of it online.

[goodsamaritan]

I tried raw paleo diet for 3 months.
Found immense wellness.
Then on the 4th month I tried cooked meat + raw fruits paleo diet.
That 1 month on only cooked meat made me break out in pimples, have back and shoulder aches, and feeling like I had the flu.
I went back to raw paleo on the 5th month.

-----------

When my 3 children are truly, gravely sick, it is always raw paleo diet that brings them back to health.  And all 3 of them grudgingly know it and remember it. 

My most experienced kid is my 1st born.  At 9 it was 2 months of bloody raw paleo diet plus beam ray that made him well from TB.  At 11 when his intestines were fully wrecked and non functioning he had to go on 100% raw paleo diet for 6 months.  the first 2 weeks on raw duck eggs and diluted orange juice. 

The end stage to fully fix his intestines for fully formed stools was 3 weeks on an all raw milk diet.

Then slowly he was taught cooked paleo diet to be more "normal".

But no way was cooked paleo diet ever going to cure destroyed intestines.

-------------

Tell the nay sayers if they want a true raw vs cooked comparison:

fully cook your fruits, fully cook your vegs, fully cook your meat VS raw fruits, raw vegs, raw meat

darn idiots cannot see how cooking all your fruits is truly stupid.

Fruits should be eaten raw.
Meats should be eaten raw.

Fruits all have a distinct taste and smell when raw.
Meats all have a distinct taste and smell when raw.

You can pick the fruit you want and need when uncondimented and raw.
You can pick the meat you want and need when uncondimented and raw.

----------

cooking is meant to make the inedible... edible... in times of hardships, in times of crisis... we humans are survivors.

I feel we at raw paleo wish to not only survive... but to thrive!

[jessica]

just be cautious where you are putting your energy.  trying to convince others that this is the healing way, or being present in your body and using your intuition and honesty to know what is the most healthful path for yourself

[ys]

It is totally pointless to argue with doctors.  You will never prove them anything.
It is like trying to prove to priest there is no God.
Save your energy.

[eveheart]

They are saying that I have not been 'trying' hard enough, because I haven't been obeying the doctors orders and whatnot.
Therefor, I am lazy and deserve to be treated accordingly.

I have a lot of experience with doctors. When I speak with them, I do not mention eating raw meats; rather, I highlight the fact that I eat no processed foods, no sugar, no wheat. In my mind, cooking = processing, but they don't have to know all the details.

What are they asking you to eat? What are they wanting you to achieve? Are they going so far as to try force-feeding, hospitalization? How much doctoring do you need right now at the stage of recovery that you have reached?

Perhaps you can shift your tactics with doctors to elicit a difference response from them.

[Dr. D]

I just try to keep things simple. Only among my best set of friends will I simply say "time to go eat some raw meat" and if they ask I'll share. Others are usually far too close-minded to even consider that their way of thinking needs to be changed. And that's what it comes down to. It's not you that needs to have undeniable proof to satisfy their lack of care. If changing a diet interested them, they would ask and be open. They sound closed off to the point that if every single person from this forum could share our health disasters with them and sit in front of them chowing down on some delicious raw lamb and high meat, proving that we are living and healthy and healed, they wouldn't care and say "some people are lucky like that" or some other dismissal that only proves how ignorant and immature they are.

It's not your job to change the world and others views. If you're in a situation that things like diet need to be addressed, keep it as vague as possible (most people don't keep a mental record of every single thing they put into their body and how it affects them, they just have a general idea of what they like), and try to move on to another subject.

[Poncho]

Guys this is exactly what I didn't want to hear.
I know all of that already.

I'm saying that for legal purposes I MUST prove that I am actually working hard for my health.
I have been compiling lots of evidence, that I am planning to use to explain my side of this to them.

They need to KNOW that I am not lazy, I just took the path of most resistance.
If I can't prove this to them, then I will just lose.

I am not trying to get them to go raw paleo, and I'm not trying to prove myself to myself.

I just need the facts, because these people only care about the facts.

I'm just asking for facts.

Links to facts.

[LePatron7]

You might want to check out the raw paleo diet website - articles section. http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/articles/dangers-of-cooked-foods-an-extensive-collection-of-on-and-offsite-articles/

There's an extensive list of studies showing the dangers of cooked foods. It doesn't show why you should eat raw food, but it shows why you shouldn't eat cooked food.

Some things I'd really stress when showing your doctors, or whoever, is...

1) cooked fats might be a cause of heart disease
Google: oxidized lipids heart disease
Here's a good link: http://www.natap.org/2009/HIV/082509_04.htm

2) HCA's + AGE's - plenty of articles on the RPD-articles link and a google search will yield plenty of info

3) some things that would help them see the benefits would be things showing the benefits of grass fed meats and dairy, which there are plenty of

4) benefits of raw milk, also plenty of info

5) info showing how much raw foods they consume in japan and how healthy they are

6) info showing the safety of raw animal foods from healthy animals is likely to help them think what you're doing is safe - http://www.eatwild.com/foodsafety.html - also say you freeze the meat to kill parasites like they do in sushi preparation.

[Poncho]

Thats more like it^
Thank you sir.

To those sharing their personal successes, I'm sure I'll be able to use it to further prove the greatness of raw paleo.
Thank you as well!

[bookittyrun]

it sounds like you are in a difficult situation.

the best evidence you can provide, the most undeniable proof you can submit,
is yourself.

if your health is improving, and you practice a rpd, there can be no denial of this fact.

in rebuttal, ask them to prove that rpd is unhealthy.  but be prepared to counter with real life evidence.  online sources can be easily construed as unreliable.

if the medical community is married to / controlled by the government in your country, you may want to seek help from a reputable doctor with a similar viewpoint as yours, who can speak on your behalf.  this may have more bearing in a legal situation than an "online community" or a "google reference"

i wish i had more to offer you.

may your efforts be efficacious.

[jessica]

heh, its a little bit of a confusing situation. 

i am assuming you have to prove this to be provided their services because it is through some government funded medical program?

you are wanting the evidence to prove to them that your way of doing things is actually medically effective, so that you can what?  not use their services?  i mean if you know they are going to want to treat your conditions in certain ways that don't work for you(or anyone for that matter), what is it about what they have to offer that you want? and are willing to compile evidence for?  just curious. 

[goodsamaritan]

I'm compiling evidence here, and I need some solid undeniable proof that RAW meat is critical to achieving optimal health.
I'm 100% for the raw meat, I do not consider abandoning it, I simply want to be able to more effectively explain to people why I eat how I eat.

See, I am all tied up in the world of doctors and whatnot.
It is not my choice.
They really aren't cool with the raw meat.
They are simply just wrong, about nearly everything they know.
It's not their fault really.

But I need to prove myself,
or else I will suffer the consequences.

They are saying that I have not been 'trying' hard enough, because I haven't been obeying the doctors orders and whatnot.
Therefor, I am lazy and deserve to be treated accordingly.

I need to silence them. Help me please.

I helped heal people with raw meat.
I've been on tv too with people healed with raw meats.

See this retinal detachment blog
http://vitrectomydiary.wordpress.com/

He did blood tests for the docs too.

And his eye laser surgeon complained and never suspected his eye could heal so FAST!  And this is because he switched to a hard core raw paleo diet and did detoxes.

[Dr. D]

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/heterocyclic-amines - Cooked food causes cancer in animals because of HCAs. Researchers at the National Cancer Institute found that human subjects who ate beef rare or medium-rare had less than one third the risk of stomach cancer than those who ate beef medium-well or well-done. While eating muscle meat raw may be the only way to avoid HCAs fully, the National Cancer Institute states that cooking meat below 212 °F (100 °C) creates "negligible amounts" of HCAs. Also, microwaving meat before cooking may substantially reduce HCAs.

Cooking also creates certain heat-created toxins, advanced glycation end products, otherwise known as AGEs. This reaction occurs both within the body and external to the body. Many cells in the body (for example endothelial cells, smooth muscle or cells of the immune system) from tissue such as lung, liver, kidney or peripheral blood bear the receptor for advanced glycation end products (RAGE) that, when binding AGEs, contributes to age and diabetes-related chronic inflammatory diseases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_foodism - There is more there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_animal_food_diets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilhjalmur_Stefansson

If you need non-online info, use the citations from wikipedia and rent the books you need from a library.

[LePatron7]

Researchers at the National Cancer Institute found that human subjects who ate beef rare or medium-rare had less than one third the risk of stomach cancer than those who ate beef medium-well or well-done. While eating muscle meat raw may be the only way to avoid HCAs fully, the National Cancer Institute states that cooking meat below 212 °F (100 °C) creates "negligible amounts" of HCAs.

I like that they at least imply that the less cooked the food is the less HCA's there are and that raw meats fully avoid HCA's.