Campylobacter infection triggered debilitating autoimmune disease, help needed

[mugsaucecity]

Hi all,

I recently got a campylobacter infection from either raw wild caught salmon or raw grass Fed beef. It triggered a very serious autoimmune disease called reactive arthritis and I was very sick and in a wheelchair for a few months. If I were to get some kind of gut infection again, that could happen again and I really can't risk that.

What should I do? Give up on raw meat? Is there any way to ensure it won't make me sick again? Also I know beef muscle meat is safe to eat cooked rare, is the same true for organ meats? I figure eating meat rare must be almost as good as raw.

Thanks in advance!

[PaleoPhil]

Wow, sorry to hear that. There have been a couple other campylobacter reports, but none nearly as bad as this. I'm no expert, but I would be cautious if I were in your shoes. Is your immune system weak/sensitive?

Warning: even rare meats/fish can cause food poisoning. I've only suffered food poisoning from rare or low-heated meats/fish myself, for example, never raw. Based on my own experience, I'm beginning to suspect that low-cooked foods might be even more susceptible to food poisoning than raw (and 99% of the food poisoning reports in the media seem to involve "undercooked" foods, rather than raw, though that could be just because few Americans eat raw animal foods). So you might also want to start your meals with foods that supposedly kill bacteria and parasites and strengthen your digestive and immune systems, like wasabi mustard, horse radish, ginger, salt or bitter herbs. I've read that Japanese people traditionally include wasabi mustard and ginger with sashimi because they can kill parasites.

You could also try to make sure that all your animal foods are either extremely fresh or frozen at low temps for 2+ weeks and avoid plastic wraps/containers.

And you could also try hormetic therapies to improve the robustness of your system and fight the arthritis (see Todd Becker, Wim Hoff, Vincent Giuliano and Seth Roberts for more on this).

Thanks for sharing your experience, which is a helpful counter to Aajonus' questionable claim that campylobacter doesn't cause serious illness.

[goodsamaritan]

What I would do:

#1 - drown the bad guys in probiotics that I know work for me.  My farmer's home made probiotics, OMX, healthy options, high meat, etc.

if after 1 day no improvement I would
#2 - use my don croft terminator zapper on my tummy for 30 minutes.
#3 - maybe use 3 drops of pure oregano oil in capsules and drink 1 every hour for 7 straight hours
#4 - go to my consultant for beam ray sessions for several hours targetting the suspect and other suspects

[mugsaucecity]

Thanks for the advice.

I'm very interested in trying high meat, but pretty scared. Has anyone ever heard of a case of someone getting sick from it? If I were to get food poisoning again it coud mean that I won't walk for a few months so I really don't want to risk it.

Also, does anyone know if eating organ meats raw is more safe than eating muscle meat raw? Since steak is generally considered safe cooked rare because the bacteria can't penetrate the tissue, is the same true for organ meats?

[PaleoPhil]

Why not become comfortable with raw meat first, and then you can progress to high meat when you're ready? Raw meat also contains probiotics, just to a lesser extent than high meat.

I try not to do things in a context of fear. If I'm not comfortable with the idea of doing something, I don't stress myself by forcing it before I'm ready, and instead take it one small step at a time. Wim Hof also advises this, I found, and I try to do things in the context of the confidence, positiveness, and exuberant spirit that he embodies. If I believe beforehand that something is going to fail, it is more likely to fail. If I believe it will succeed, it is more likely to succeed.

I have seen this in this forum, with one fellow posting his worries about raw meat and then going ahead anyway and not only eating raw meat, but leaving it out of the fridge in warm weather and then freaking out when he got some negative symptoms, attributing them to the raw meat and quickly dropping raw meat, going back to thoroughly cooking all his food.

Campylobacter doesn't trigger a severe autoimmune illness in everyone, which suggests that you had some sort of immune system issues going on beforehand, and I'll bet you had some chronic symptoms you may have considered minor or "normal". You could investigate what might be behind your tendency toward autoimmunity. If you can find a way to fix that, then that should reduce the risk of severe chronic illness from food infections (which can come from cooked, as well as raw food).

[Dr. D]

If you want to try high-meat, do it the way I did. Take a whole liver (you can use other meat, its just most of my cuts are fatty and I hear lean cuts make better high-meat) and chop it up really really small. About 1 cm squares. Include the blood or it will dry out. I put it in the fridge and waited about 3 days for it to smell stronger, airing daily outside. On the 3rd day, I took a few bites and put it back. Took a few bites daily or every other day and as long as I didn't experience bad effects, I assumed I was moving towards the good ones. Today, about 3 weeks in, I noticed an uplift in my mind, less tired, more clarity/energy. VERY minute, but enough to notice. So I added more liver because I was running low and I knew I had a good strain going.

My first batch I tried drying open air but I think it got too warm. Smelled wrong kind of bad. I downed a tiny tiny piece after only 24 hours of warm open air. Puked the next morning. Moved on. I didn't let it scare me off. Really, I've gotten food poisoning from so many restaurants I'm not even scared of this stuff now. 3 times in a row Applebee's hamburgers made me puke 6 hours after eating them.

I know you're in a different situation than me, but that's my suggestion. Keep it cool, and eat as it ages. First sign of negative: toss. First sign of positive: add more or wait more to strengthen it.

[goodsamaritan]

Now may not be the time to make your own high meat first time experiments.
Just use commercial probiotics you know work for you.

[Dr. D]

Trust GS on this. He's more experienced than me. Haha

[goodsamaritan]

Trust GS on this. He's more experienced than me. Haha

We all have our different perspectives, try not to give too much weight to what I say.  I've just been at this thing for 5.5 years.  There are others here who have more experience as raw paleo dieters or healers.