Aajonus's germ theory

[galaxy]

In "We Want to Live" it says that all infectious diseases such as the common cold, flu, herpes, measles, syphilis, etc  are really caused by toxins and the blame just gets shifted onto contagious pathogens. Is this backed up by any other sources?

I have read about Pasteur vs Bechamp but have not found any definitive evidence that bacteria and viruses are actually produced from within the body (which is not to say that this evidence doesn't exist just because I haven't stumbled upon  it).

 I know there are books about Gaston Naessens and other scientists who supposedly invented super microscopes, but if these stories are true then how could they still be suppressed? You could put a video on the internet showing something like syphilis spontaneously appearing from cells in the presence of toxins and then it would be goodbye to the germ theory. Upstart corporations and governments would want to use it for their own advantage against the big boys.

How can he make all of these radical statements that contradict what everyone else believes and then not back what he says up with hard references? Obviously toxins and poor nutrition weaken the body and make it susceptible to sickness but Aajonus's statements go way beyond that.

I find his book very interesting but I need to see solid collaborating sources. Can anyone help?

[LePatron7]

My view on germs is this.

A healthy animal will have healthy bacteria. This is supported by how we see the bacteria from grass fed animals, wild caught fish, etc. have healthy bacteria and don't make us sick.

http://www.eatwild.com/foodsafety.html

Unhealthy animals, say grain, antibiotic and hormone fed cows will have unhealthy bacteria.

I feel the same applies to humans. IMHO humans aren't adapted to complex carbs, or cooked foods/animal foods. Just as a cow fed grain will have unhealthy bacteria, that could potentially make the animal sick  (as well as the consumer). The same applies to humans eating grains, dairy, and cooked meats. So human's bacteria/viruses etc. are likely the result of a poor diet, and are in no way beneficial.

One example would be with herpes.

It's been said by many "natural cures" advocates that lysine (an amino acid) cures/kills herpes.

it's interesting to note that lysine is a major AGE (advanced glycation end product).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7662668

Perhaps the herpes virus was able to take hold in so many cooked food eaters, due to a lysine deficiency.

Another example would be with HIV. One website I saw showed that a specific microbial toxin could increase the rate at which HIV replicates.

http://www.microbialinfluence.com/NFKB.html

"LPS is also shown to dramatically increase HIV-1 production from a chronically infected monocyte/macrophage-like cloned cell line, U1, which produces very low levels of HIV-1 at baseline."

LPS=microbial toxin

[galaxy]

I understand that toxins and/or poor nutrition weaken an animal's immune system or otherwise create an environment where pathogenic bacteria thrive. Some specific toxins catalize mechanisms responsible for specific diseases.

However, I am wondering about Aajonus's assertions that disease is not contagious and is solely a function of toxins and nutrition, as he claims in his books. Lots of authors recount the Bechamp/Pasteur debate, but they only go so far as to say that conventional medicine ignores the role of the terrain in favor of attacking pathogens, which unlike Aajonus they hold are infectious.

I am trying to find out if there are others out there who also hold Aajonus's radical view that infectious diseases arise spontaneously within each animal and are in fact not contagious (and who are basing this view on some kind of published research). I haven't come across a single other source that has this view, and Aajanous doesn't provide much in the way of hard references to where he got his information.

PS Thanks for the good links!

[LePatron7]

However, I am wondering about Aajonus's assertions that disease is not contagious and is solely a function of toxins and nutrition, as he claims in his books.

Of course microbes are contagious. Look at all the people who got mad cow disease when they were feeding cows beef in the UK.

Or how infections spread in hospitals.

Aajonous has some wild beliefs, and pushes them on to his readers, followers, etc. The fact is his opinions are wild, without merit, and have no documented scientific references to speak of.

I am trying to find out if there are others out there who also hold Aajonus's radical view that infectious diseases arise spontaneously within each animal and are in fact not contagious (and who are basing this view on some kind of published research).

I do think there's some merit (though little evidence) to support that infectious diseases spawn on their own and aren't necessarily caught from somewhere.

When you think about it, HIV, herpes, and all those other diseases are claimed to be transmitted, and only caught if you catch it from someone. But then how did the first person get it?

[dogman333]

This is the book you want to read:  Fear of the Invisible by Janine Roberts. In this book she reveals the documents and sources that viruses are naturally produced by all cells --- just as Aajonus claims. She reveals verified proof that HIV is a hoax, among other so-called 'viral' diseases.

"Dr Roberto Giraldo reported of this book: 'It is very comforting to read in Fear of the Invisible: 'We have all been taught to greatly fear viruses - yet scientists are now discovering that they are fundamental parts of life, made by the million by all healthy cells. I hope this book will help by combating this fear, this damning of the invisible because we do not understand it. Without this fear, hopefully the focus in medical research will shift to looking more at the environmental toxins that really do put us, and our world, gravely at risk."
 
I've read (unverified) that in a Life magazine interview in the 1970's, Jonas Salk, inventor of the Polio vaccine, admitted that he regreted creating the vaccine. He understood his mistake too late.

And what about bacteria. The best source that I know of is Dr. Thomas Cowan. This is a good article http://fourfoldhealing.com/2010/06/08/fevers-in-children/    Read his blog at FourFoldHealing.com, especially the article "Fevers in Children."

"Just as in a compost pile, or a pond that has had some garbage or pollution dumped into it, an infection is nature’s way of digesting unwanted debris. If you put the wrong stuff in a compost pile, it will get an “infection” as the new, probably more powerful bacteria try to digest this unwanted stuff. . . . ."

" . . . The facts, however, tell a different story. For example, all the pediatric textbooks tell us that a child who has nephrotic syndrome, a disease in which the kidneys begin to leak out protein, will most likely be cured if he simultaneously contracts measles. In fact, measles is the only known cure for nephrotic syndrome, which is otherwise treated with the misery of long-term prednisone. Interestingly, giving a measles vaccine doesn’t work, it doesn’t cure nephrotic syndrome.

" . . . . Those who have read my book The Fourfold Path to Healing know that the whole history of the treatment of cancer is intimately related to the phenomenon of infectious disease. There are numerous recorded cases of cancers going into remission when the patient contracts an infectious disease, strep being the most likely candidate to cure the patient of cancer. . . . . "

Well, these are a few references which, at least for me, they verified some of these things.. There's alot I still don't understand, but reading this above material really opens my mind --- and Aajonus doesn't sound so crazy anymore.

1.  Side Note:   One of my favorite things learned from Thomas Cowan is that the heart is not a pump! I've heard him speak about it, but he writes about it here:  http://fourfoldhealing.com/2005/02/01/the-heart-does-not-pump/

2.  Side Note:  I made a short summary video for YouTube about eating raw meat. It's meant to open minds. I share it with all my curious friends. What do you think?   http://youtu.be/Z9g_EGbnfxo

[eveheart]

2.  Side Note:  I made a short summary video for YouTube about eating raw meat. It's meant to open minds. I share it with all my curious friends. What do you think?   http://youtu.be/Z9g_EGbnfxo

Very nice!

[Alive]

2.  Side Note:  I made a short summary video for YouTube about eating raw meat. It's meant to open minds. I share it with all my curious friends. What do you think?   http://youtu.be/Z9g_EGbnfxo

I agree - great video dogman333

[RogueFarmer]

Of course microbes are contagious. Look at all the people who got mad cow disease when they were feeding cows beef in the UK.

Or how infections spread in hospitals.

Aajonous has some wild beliefs, and pushes them on to his readers, followers, etc. The fact is his opinions are wild, without merit, and have no documented scientific references to speak of.

I do think there's some merit (though little evidence) to support that infectious diseases spawn on their own and aren't necessarily caught from somewhere.

When you think about it, HIV, herpes, and all those other diseases are claimed to be transmitted, and only caught if you catch it from someone. But then how did the first person get it?

Mad cow disease is contagious through prions, not microbes. Even then, the only way they were able to "prove" that prions are contagious was by surgically implanting prions from a mad cow into a "non" mad cow. Also, cows eating cows or cows eating sheep etc. was not the cause of mad cow as the chemical companies would like you to believe, rather it is probably mainly caused by drench type "grubbers" that conventional farmers commonly use to keep grubs and flies off of cattle.

[CitrusHigh]

Are you certain RF?  Because I recall reading about cannibalistic tribes in Guinea I believe. They developed the human equivalent of mad cow because they would consume their dead, or portions thereof.  What info do you have knowledge of that points the blame at chemicals (besides their inherent mutagenic properties) rather than prion consumption due to a wildly unhealthy diet (of toxified CAFO animal tissue)?

[CitrusHigh]

Aajonous has some wild beliefs, and pushes them on to his readers, followers, etc. The fact is his opinions are wild, without merit, and have no documented scientific references to speak of.

When you think about it, HIV, herpes, and all those other diseases are claimed to be transmitted, and only caught if you catch it from someone. But then how did the first person get it?

The first person supposedly caught herpes from fucking livestock, but that is hearsay, I've no sources to back that up.

Aajonus, while certainly wild, generally has really good reasons, studiable, mechanical, observable reasons, for the things he says. So boss, lets play a game, you dig up Aajonus' most preposterous claim, in your opinion, and I will do the foot work to find the best lab evidence combined with any other pertinent sources to either prove it's a likely thing or not. Then folks here can weigh in with their opinions on what the data says. I only care about the truth, and so far, aajonus is reliably more on the money for more readily observable evidence than anyone else Im aware of, partially this comes from looking at the evidence through a less warped lens IOW, he is starting with a much more solid foundational perspective than 99.9999% of those doing (experimentation and interpretation) science out there. Game on, if you will stand behind your own assertions

[dogman333]

Toth -- you are too kind.
Are people too lazy to do some reading on their own? They like to challenge and stir up mud without reading a book! I mentioned Janine Robert's book -- I wonder how many will read it -- instead of fighting for their own limitations in knowledge

Also, I guess my deepest surprise is that people on this forum, of all forums, will so easily believe the 'conventional' wisdom. People who eat raw meat, for godsakes, which is "extremely dangerous and unhealthy" will still believe in what the newspapers have to say. First thing we all need to learn is that if it's in the newspaper or out of a doctor's mouth, the odds are very high that it is plain wrong.

I know, I need lots more compassion. I"ll keep trying. You are offering the greatest compassion, Toth. Bravo to you.

[CitrusHigh]

Hey buddy! Ive been meaning to write you, sounds like you and I are on the same page, I can always use more friends like you, people who have seen through germ theory AND can defend their position intelligently on many levels. I reall appreciated your write up, and though I havent read Roberts' book, reading the reviews and summaries of it was what first caused me to take an undogmatic look at what a virus actually is. And then when I learned that our genome is over 85% 'virus' or virus-like, the pieces started to fall in to place. Actually Aaj was the first one that got me to question it, but Roberts pushed me deeper. Get at me on PM if you want to chat about this stuff! Peeps here are awesome, but you are correct, there is a lot of residual adherence to the old dogma in spite of the relative enlightenment inherent with people eating raw meat. A lot of people seem to think that this paradigm and the old dogma should get woven together, but no, we need a complete overhaul in our thinking because it was this old dogma, a purposeful and contrived dogma, that brought us test tube America, and all the wild goose chases going on in the name of finding a cure!

[Projectile Vomit]

2.  Side Note:  I made a short summary video for YouTube about eating raw meat. It's meant to open minds. I share it with all my curious friends. What do you think?   http://youtu.be/Z9g_EGbnfxo

Can you list the sources of the clips you put into this video? Very well done!

[dogman333]

Please 'like' the video  --- and share it.
I have the video as part of my email signature so that anyone I email has a chance to click the link.

Apologies, but not all the sources are listed in the video description, however, most are. I think the David Getoff video is well worth watching. It's long, but very good.

And I hope you've watched my Earthing compilation. I believe that is important for all of us as well.

The next compilation I'm playing with is about fat. The goal is to 'poke holes' in the phobias. I've collected some great clips, especially around gaining muscle, mood and mental benefits with a higher fat diet.

[Projectile Vomit]

I'm about an hour into the David Getoff video, and while I wish he'd stay on topic it is fairly good. Where did you get the GAPS diet footage from? I don't see that in your list of links.

[dogman333]

That's from a WAPF Conference lecture recording. It's not on Youtube, but I believe several of her talks are on Youtube. I bought all the dvd's  because we have an autistic boy in the family.

Are you interested in more from Dr. Natasha? Maybe I can help.

[LePatron7]

Where did you get the GAPS diet footage from?

FYI the GAPS Diet is based on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet.

What Dr. Natasha did was basically keep the list of SCD legal/illegal foods. While encouraging people to eat high quality animal foods and organic produce.

The science of SCD, and therefore GAPS is very sound. But something neither diet considers is how damaging cooked animal foods are, even when they're from high quality animals.

When I was on the GAPS Yahoo email group, I read about someone giving their autistic kid the GAPS diet but everything raw and they made a huge recovery (or so she claimed).

The diet I would stick to all the time is basically SCD, but with all the carbs and animal foods raw. And instead of fermented yogurt, I stick to high meat and fermented plant foods.

[dogman333]

I had a few more random thoughts for Galaxy on this topic.

1.  We went to see Dr. Mary Megson, who is/was among other things a researcher in Vitamin A. She told us that a vaccine for measles was unnecessary. She explained that measles is easily  prevented with vitamin A, that measles was a vitamin A deficiency. In third world countries where they cannot afford vaccines, they simply give the children a 200,000 IU dose of vitamin A each year to protect them from measles. Therefore, maybe this measles/virus thing is not what it appears.

2.  Also, I think of mosquitos. They don't bother me at all. Yet I can sit next to someone who will be eaten up by them. Why don't they like me? Could it be the same reason a syphilus bacteria didn't like a primal eater (from Aajonus story)? For most people, don't mosquitos seem contagious?

3.  Dogs. Raw fed dogs don't get fleas.  Is that just a stronger immune system? Or something else?

4.  Plants. The bugs only eat the unhealthy plants. The bugs -- instead of being the problem  -- are Nature's solution to a problem, the sick plants. I think that sounds similar to Aajonus' view of bacteria.

When I think about it, so-called 'problems' in every area of life are so often looking in the wrong place (It's her fault, etc.). That's why fleas, bugs, germs, or whatever symptom we have  --   just maybe  -- in my mind might not be the real problem. I don't remember exactly how Aajonus explains it, but his outlook seems to fit the facts I carry around in my head.

I don't know where the bacteria come from, but these days, I don't care either.

Now this may or may not be way off topic, but I'm  amazed at so many things that are considered normal. Or, in other words, have people looking in the wrong place. I'm sure much of this is the same for all of you. Since I've been eating so clean, I can go up to 4 or 5 days without a shower, that is, if body odor is a concern. I love that. Also, I don't fart. The bathroom never gets stinky. I don't get bad breath. I don't need teeth cleaning. Plaque and tartar don't build up (it takes a K2 supplement for that in my case). I don't even bother to brush my teeth everyday. All these things that others consider 'normal' are really not.

Is Aajonus right or wrong? I just don't care either way. Because it works. I don't get sick. I don't smell. Mosquitos don't bother me. Hey, life is great.

And this leads my mind to the GAPS/SCD guidelines. In essence, avoiding foods that feed the 'bad' bacteria. I do that also. I believe our gut microbes just aren't what they used to be. So, I think they need cultivating with much care. Mostly because of our toxic world, and even our best of foods is not what it used to be even 50 years ago. For instance, I learned from Dave Asprey about the super-molds we're created by spraying anti-fungals so indiscriminately. These are challenges our ancestors didn't have to deal with.

I'm not discouraging anyone from pursuing the facts on the germ idea. Rather, just commenting that the benefits are so good regardless of the reasons why. And I'm most pleased with the personal proof in my own life that far outshines anything some scientist may have to say.

Galaxy, I hope you keep digging for the truth. I hope you share what you find with us. I'm behind you all the way.

[LePatron7]

And this leads my mind to the GAPS/SCD guidelines. In essence, avoiding foods that feed the 'bad' bacteria. I do that also. I believe our gut microbes just aren't what they used to be. So, I think they need cultivating with much care.

So you've been essentially eating an all raw SCD type diet (diet only containing SCD legal foods but raw)? I'd love to hear more about how that's been for you. I haven't been fortunate enough to be on a raw SCD type diet for very long, but I noticed a lot of benefits for the short time I was on it. The white stuff on my tongue cleared up, it appeared I was pooping out parasites, pooping out white stuff.

What has been your experience?

[political atheist]

There is no bad or good bacteria  IMO.

Somewhere I read that in the 50's they discovered that bacteria turns ''pathogenic'' if exposed to heavy metals, especially alluminium(vaccines, chemtrails, pots, cans) , mercury(light bulbs, vaccines, amalgam dental stuff etc.), fluoride(water, pesticides, toothpaste etc)..

I dont think that they become pathogenic, I think they begin to try detoxing the body of these metals and other toxins(plastics etc.) and thats why one feels sick... its the herx reaction of the body to the bacteria doing their job to detox/repair/heal the body.

[political atheist]

There is no bad or good bacteria  IMO.

Somewhere I read that in the 50's they discovered that bacteria turns ''pathogenic'' if exposed to heavy metals, especially alluminium(vaccines, chemtrails, pots, cans) , mercury(light bulbs, vaccines, amalgam dental stuff, carpet, paint etc.), fluoride(water, pesticides, toothpaste etc)..

I dont think that they become pathogenic, I think they begin to try detoxing the body of these metals and other toxins(plastics etc.) and thats why one feels sick... its the herx reaction of the body to the bacteria doing their job to detox/repair/heal the body.