The Dangers of (Raw and Pasteurised) Dairy Consumption

[raw-al]

There are different versions of pasteurization, but all involve pressurization and it is not considered done till the enzymes are broken down.

One of the problems with pasteurization is also that the milk is typically homogenized which further breaks the milk down into a poor version of the original.

[blake]

I'm sure we could look up some studies to see at what temp minerals begin to cauterize, but at the moment I cannot say. However, I do think pasteurization temps are very high relative to the temp out in nature. Therefore if anything I would be highly suspicious of what these temperatures would do to minerals such as calcium. Not to mention, as Van said, regarding the unknown implications of enzyme and bacteria destruction, and how they could serve a function in regards to calcium absorption as well. I know that enzymes and bacteria are known to work in helping us to utilize nutrients more effectively. Point being, I think raw milk is just too different from conventional milk to enable us to draw any kind of conclusive analysis.

I hear what your saying about the magnesium deficiency. I haven't personally heard about this being a problem specific to raw milk drinkers, however I have heard a lot of primal dieters eating raw pumpkin seeds for the magnesium. Anybody know what kind of symptoms a magnesium deficiency would cause? I'd like to be aware of what that would look like so I know to look out for it.
 

[raw-al]

There are different versions of pasteurization, but all involve pressurization and it is not considered done till the enzymes are broken down.

One of the problems with pasteurization is also that the milk is typically homogenized which further breaks the milk down into a poor version of the original.

I realized later that I could have continued.

The enzymes normally would assist in digestion so a food that is normally a bit difficult to digest has suddenly become even more difficult in addition to the homogenization which further inhibits digestion.

Also farmers know that the milk they produce will be pasteurized so they care less about the quality of the milk they sell. So if a cow is sick it will download bacteria into the milk and as far as the farmer is concerned 'no big deal' because it is going to be cooked anyways, so when you get Pas. milk it is very low grade milk possibly from a very sick cow.

Now all this does not mean that raw milk will be easy to digest or is somehow the perfect food for everyone,  just that it is even more difficult for those who have difficulty digesting it in the first place.

[ivanrk]

Raw milk does not cause magnesium deficiency - exactly the opposite - it have magnesium. Raw cheese can cause Mag deficiency because if you check nutritiondata.self.com cheese does not have magnesium - it seems it goes to whey - but whole milk have magnesium. Pumpkin seeds are useless for magnesium - there is no magnesium in soil so dont expect the pumpkin seeds to have it. Milk and animal foods are just more concentrated so have better chances to have minerals like magnesium. Raw Fermented milk products like kefir, home yogurt are much more healing that raw beef - beef does not have all amino acids. The only problem i see with raw milk is lactose - but this is taken care of  when fermented. Raw cheese is not the complete food like raw milk because whey is removed - this is where sulphur amino acids are - in the whey - the body needs them to produce gluthathione. I doubt that there is someone on this earth who can digest raw beef but who cant digest raw kefir or raw youghurt - simply because they are predigested unlike beef unless beef is fermented in some kind.

[TylerDurden]

The above comment is incorrect. The whole point is that raw dairy has far too high a calcium:magnesium ratio. Since calcium in excess blocks the uptake of magnesium into the body, dairy, however raw, can in large quantities block magnesium-intake. No other foods have such a high calcium:magnesium ratio as dairy products. Pumpkin seeds are one of the few foods with a very high magnesium:calcium ratio.

[JeuneKoq]

The true problem with cow milk is that first of all it contains 3 times more protein than human milk. This is too much protein for a child, and it explains why children fed on cow milk have livers and kidneys 30% bigger in volume than those of children fed on breast milk. Secondly, cow milk may have three times the amount of calcium than mothers milk, it also has 5 times the amount of phosphate, which binds to calcium in the intestinal track and prevents 2/3 of it to be absorbed. Which explains in part why the heavy dairy-drinking populations also have a high prevalence of osteoporosis.

[raw-al]

The true problem with cow milk is that first of all it contains 3 times more protein than human milk. This is too much protein for a child, and it explains why children fed on cow milk have livers and kidneys 30% bigger in volume than those of children fed on breast milk. Secondly, cow milk may have three times the amount of calcium than mothers milk, it also has 5 times the amount of phosphate, which binds to calcium in the intestinal track and prevents 2/3 of it to be absorbed. Which explains in part why the heavy dairy-drinking populations also have a high prevalence of osteoporosis.

JK,

Nice theory,

I have consumed dairy all my life. I had problems with pasteurized homogenized milk but no problems with raw. However the fact is that it depends on the person. I have strong digestion and can handle the milk although I do not drink a lot. Many PPL do not handle milk well and can have serious issues in some cases. But many PPL do fine with it.

However some PPL love and do fine with say onions and garlic. I get very sick if I consume them.

We are all different and that's just the way it is.

[TylerDurden]

Just a hunch, but perhaps those with larger than average livers/kidneys might do better on dairy, as a result? Such as the Inuit.

[dair]

Had some raw dairy some days ago, which I normally do not eat, and felt really bad, heavy and bloated for 2 days, with some stomach cramps. I will not do this again. I am quite sure that dairy, even raw, does not suit me. I feel slow in my mind after.
Today I started the day with meat, and some lard (which I do not do usually). Had some Jun (honey combucha) just after, and my energy levels are great. Dairy really slows me down and messes with my digestion.

[PaganGoy]

Just had some raw cheese with dinner, I personally find raw cheese far easier to digest than meat and I have a pretty damaged system.

[LoneWolf]

Well, I'm done with dairy.

I tried adding milk to my carnivore diet for some cheap protein/calories. All I got was gas and diarrhea.

I jumped though all sort of hoops to find raw milk, and the result was exactly the same!!!

I tried fermenting it but it didn't really work and just tasted weird.

Weird thing is I craved it, I really wanted it to work, but it's just not for me.

[TylerDurden]

Cravings are a common sign of being addicted to an allergen.

[LoneWolf]

Yeah, before the milk experiment i was eating a lot of yogurt and cheese, I craved those too. They didn't seem to cause any ill effects but now I'm really start to wonder, I'm gonna try zero dairy and see how I feel.

[TheArt]

Well, this dairy debate seems never come to an end.
People have many problems with it, other people thrive on it.

The only possible conclusion that I can make is : "Dairy food may vary considerably its effects because of source and the type (cheese, milk, kefir) and there are people who can tolerate it and other who can't."

[PaganGoy]

@theart
Agreed
More so than to otherwise base my views on what the average person in paleo times would have accomplished,
I am actually more in line with sv3rige who views domination as the main guiding principle that matters in nature.
I also see zero tangible evidence for evolution to exist in nature.

One thing that AV would bring up is that what appears in a vacuum artificially like pasteurized dairy, is not always the same case in practice with for example something like raw dairy.
Accounts of issues and success relating to raw dairy* are far more valuable in my opinion.

[dair]

I've had many times when I stopped completely dairy for months/years, and then I try it again. In the first days I don't feel that much problems, and then I think that dairy is ok (because it's so addictive, the mind will make up a lot of different scenarios/explanations) but after a some days I feel blocked digestion, experience bad skin and a slower mind.
You might have heard about junkies going on a detox so that he can enjoy the high better once he's clean. This is more common than you would think. Same with dairy.

[norawnofun]

Which type of dairy did you have that made you feel so bad. Raw organic cows milk? And how did you consume it? Fresh, clabbered, cold, heated?