So... I had some yoghurt + toppings today and chicken yesterday...

[SuperInfinity]

It's the first time in about two weeks I actually had anything bad and I don't even count the chicken as bad (unless you count the nut thing but that wasn't my fault).

You can all laugh at me now...

The reason for it? Not eating enough raw fruit&veg earlier I think, especially fruit. Then I started having these desires for quick food. Oh well...

I'm not fruitarian, nor vegan, nor vegetarian, nor paleo diet... I'm more like a very healthy form of the Standard American Diet.

Did the yoghurts + toppings make me feel better or taste better or something?

Of course not, it's all SUPERSTITION, it's wanting what you cannot have. When you are addicted, it's a very real physical addiction. You crave them.... and I sympathize with anyone like that because I've been there so much myself. However when you are *NOT* addicted... THEN it's just pure bullshit and a superstition, a myth. It's literally like taking heroin or something.

Oh well... to be honest with you guys it's really not that huge a deal for me apart from "breaking the chain". A few months back I used to still crack on milk and biscuits sometimes...That's it for the month though definitely....

I bet an awful lot of you have things like this happen to you as well...

[PaleoPhil]

It's the first time in about two weeks I actually had anything bad and I don't even count the chicken as bad (unless you count the nut thing but that wasn't my fault).

...I'm not fruitarian, nor vegan, nor vegetarian, nor paleo diet... I'm more like a very healthy form of the Standard American Diet.

OK, it's nice to see you opening up and being more honest, congratulations. I don't think your problem was not enough fruit, I think it was more too much fruit and too little meat and animal fat, which are more satiating and less crave-inducing. Even green veggies would be less crave-inducing. Usually domestic fruits lead to cravings for more fruits or, worse, modern carbs like milk and biscuits, but in your case you may also be craving the nutrients and fats found in meats like chicken. If that's the case, then it was a healthy craving.

Cooked chicken eh? You really are cheating! Better not mention that one at the raw veg forum.    What exactly is it that you are trying to stick to eating now?

Interesting shared experience--I do have some nuts-in-shell left and have still been eating them to finish them off (though no more fruits left), and I do notice that they seem to have a bit more of a negative effect on me when I eat a lot of them than I expected, though it will be easier to tell when I'm off them completely. I think you're probably right about the fact that they're in shells indicating that nature doesn't want us to eat a lot of them, although huge mounds of nut shells discarded by Stone Age Europeans have been unearthed and they might have dried or roasted some for later I suppose--but even they were mainly eating them in season.

Of course not, it's all SUPERSTITION, it's wanting what you cannot have. When you are addicted, it's a very real physical addiction. You crave them.... and I sympathize with anyone like that because I've been there so much myself. However when you are *NOT* addicted... THEN it's just pure bullshit and a superstition, a myth. It's literally like taking heroin or something.

OK, not sure what you're saying here--it seems to meander and contradict.

Oh well... to be honest with you guys it's really not that huge a deal for me apart from "breaking the chain". A few months back I used to still crack on milk and biscuits sometimes...That's it for the month though definitely....

I bet an awful lot of you have things like this happen to you as well...

Not often, really--sorry. I've always had more discipline when it came to food than most people for some reason. I have noticed over the years that cheating is common among fruitarians and other vegetarians as well as conventional weight-loss dieters who continue to eat lots of carbs, and I did cheat more when I ate substantial carbs per my nutritionist's advice. Eating large amounts of either modern foods or domestic fruits seems to promote cheating.

I used to occasionally have a piece of cane-sugar peppermint candy (which I won't be buying any more, now that I'm stricter) or a bit of honey to settle the stomach if something I ate didn't digest well (which nowadays tends to be just when the zinc supplements--which I/'m taking less and less often--occasionally upset my stomach). I find at this point that raw bone marrow fat and tallow (I know, not raw) also settle the stomach, which is surprising because I don't digest some fats well (such as cooked pork sausage--maybe the gristle contributes to the problem).

The way I maintain pretty good discipline is by not buying the stuff I don't want to eat. So, even when I was occasionally buying mints to allow myself the occasional stomach-settling treat, I bought only the smallest bag of it, because what I buy and keep in the house I tend to eat. Even so, I was playing with fire, because sugar and carbs are my biggest food addiction, and I occasionally went overboard, so I've decided not to get any more. I think I'll probably restrict my stomach soothing to bone marrow or Milk of Magnesia in the future. Any other suggestions for raw Paleo zero carb stomach soothers?

After my raw zero-carb experiment, if I decide to allow some cooked foods again, my main treat-foods will probably be pemmican and beef jerky dipped in tallow. I now love them after being initially turned off by pemmican. Jerky dipped in tallow is actually my favorite food right now. If I decide to allow some carbs back in, I might allow honey--we'll see.

[SuperInfinity]

OK, it's nice to see you opening up and being more honest, congratulations. I don't think your problem was not enough fruit, I think it was more too much fruit and too little meat and animal fat, which are more satiating and less crave-inducing. Even green veggies would be less crave-inducing. Usually domestic fruits lead to cravings for more fruits or, worse, modern carbs like milk and biscuits, but in your case you may also be craving the nutrients and fats found in meats like chicken. If that's the case, then it was a healthy craving.

You could be right. The chicken was semi-intentionally... and I just got a craving. As I said before I wasn't too strict about that, my real failings were today.   

Cooked chicken eh? You really are cheating! Better not mention that one at the raw veg forum.    What exactly is it that you are trying to stick to eating now?

I agree with your advice about the raw veg forum. But do you really consider raw meat THAT MUCH superior to cooked meat? It is chicken after all... I'd much rather eat that than raw red meat...

Interesting shared experience--I do have some nuts-in-shell left and have still been eating them to finish them off (though no more fruits left), and I do notice that they seem to have a bit more of a negative effect on me when I eat a lot of them than I expected, though it will be easier to tell when I'm off them completely. I think you're probably right about the fact that they're in shells indicating that nature doesn't want us to eat a lot of them, although huge mounds of nut shells discarded by Stone Age Europeans have been unearthed and they might have dried or roasted some for later I suppose--but even they were mainly eating them in season.

Okay good, that's a good paragraph now Paleophil, keep it up.

OK, not sure what you're saying here--it seems to meander and contradict.

It did a little, but hopefully you get the idea... "cooked non-meat = bad" (and the reason I add non-meat is because I think you have to be so wary when eating raw meat).

Not often, really--sorry. I've always had more discipline when it came to food than most people for some reason. I have noticed over the years that cheating is common among fruitarians and other vegetarians as well as conventional weight-loss dieters who continue to eat lots of carbs, and I did cheat more when I ate substantial carbs per my nutritionist's advice. Eating large amounts of either modern foods or domestic fruits seems to promote cheating.

Whatever Mr. Perfect. I said something about Standard American Diet earlier... what I had the idea of getting around to saying was that maybe I would end up better than everyone... because I DIDN'T LIMIT MYSELF TO SOME DIET DOGMA AND ATTACH MYSELF TO IT LIKE A SOLDIER ON THE FIRST LINE. I wasn't going around eating raw meat in an era where manufacturers could be doing ANYTHING to them and saying "Oh well, it's safe for 99.9% of people". If it turns out there's something poisonous and toxic in cooked food the food is recalled etc. If there's something poisonous and toxic but it's deactivated on cooking the food is left untouched, the USDA says "we told them not to eat it", etc.

Let's not forget that there's an obscene amount of centenarians going around who have bread and cereal every day and often ice-cream, cakes, biscuits, alcohol etc. as well!!! On the other hand people with much better diets can very easily die in their 70s-90s. So while that's not desirable and quality of life and earlier death are definitely very big things in it, let's face it that two yoghurts in a week (yes, even "creamy toffee flavour yogurt with milk chocolate coated cereal hoops") isn't going to do much damage... even if I had it every week the damage would be very slight. Yoghurt has good stuff in it as well!!!! However if I ate it every day, THEN there might be significant drawback to it.

I hope you'd agree with me there and are not deluding yourself that way. 98.5% on a perfect diet is practically as good as 100% perfect, considering people who have a 50% perfect diet get away with it a lot. The only problems are the PRECEDENT of it and the cravings it might induce afterwards. In the end the exact 100% is just the creme de la creme, just the icing on the cake, the thing to strive for. It's definitely not something people on high carb diets can't achieve... but being a shameful day I'm not raw in *any* respect, I'll allow you your time in the sun and to get in the last word today. Maybe we should have a competition.
 

I used to occasionally have a piece of cane-sugar peppermint candy (which I won't be buying any more, now that I'm stricter) or a bit of honey to settle the stomach if something I ate didn't digest well (which nowadays tends to be just when the zinc supplements--which I/'m taking less and less often--occasionally upset my stomach). I find at this point that raw bone marrow fat and tallow (I know, not raw) also settle the stomach, which is surprising because I don't digest some fats well (such as cooked pork sausage--maybe the gristle contributes to the problem).

The way I maintain pretty good discipline is by not buying the stuff I don't want to eat. So, even when I was occasionally buying mints to allow myself the occasional stomach-settling treat, I bought only the smallest bag of it, because what I buy and keep in the house I tend to eat. Even so, I was playing with fire, because sugar and carbs are my biggest food addiction, and I occasionally went overboard, so I've decided not to get any more. I think I'll probably restrict my stomach soothing to bone marrow or Milk of Magnesia in the future. Any other suggestions for raw Paleo zero carb stomach soothers?

Sounds like good advice.

After my raw zero-carb experiment, if I decide to allow some cooked foods again, my main treat-foods will probably be pemmican and beef jerky dipped in tallow. I now love them after being initially turned off by pemmican. Jerky dipped in tallow is actually my favorite food right now. If I decide to allow some carbs back in, I might allow honey--we'll see.

I hate to break it to you but honey is not that nutritious a food...

[goodsamaritan]

You can all laugh at me now...

Here goes... Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..

I bet your cooked chicken was a factory chicken.

[RawZi]

The way I maintain pretty good discipline is by not buying the stuff I don't want to eat. So, even when I was occasionally buying mints to allow myself the occasional stomach-settling treat, I bought only the smallest bag of it, because what I buy and keep in the house I tend to eat. Even so, I was playing with fire, because sugar and carbs are my biggest food addiction, and I occasionally went overboard, so I've decided not to get any more. I think I'll probably restrict my stomach soothing to bone marrow or Milk of Magnesia in the future. Any other suggestions for raw Paleo zero carb stomach soothers?

    I've never tried Milk of Magnesia.  I bought a bunch of fresh local basil from the organic market this evening.  Me and my partner were out at a vegetarian restaurant.  I asked the waiter for tomatoes, but he could only serve the dishes on the menu.  So I got a fresh fruit juice.  Then I asked him about the scrambled eggs.  He said they were free range, but he much more recommended their tofu scrambler.  I know they must have had salad there, but vegetables in any form have messed up my stomach lately.  I tried the tofu, but it tasted like paper to me, so I had him bring me eggs, and gave the scrambler to my partner.  Good thing as he does love tofu.  It was great quality for tofu, but it's still not food to me.  Tofu just takes away my energy, my appetite and my desire to live.  The eggs were runny.  I was glad.  The smell is weird to me, of cooked animal things.  So anyway, at the market after got the basil, cause that just seemed like the only vegetable that my stomach might like.  I'll tell you if it's a good tummy soother later, if I get to that.  I got a bamboo-fiber shirt too in the mall with the restaurant and the market.  I put it on right away, I'm wearing it now.

[goodsamaritan]

Superinfinity,

Do you have the desire to do a raw paleo diet?  You first need that desire.  The motivation.  Once you find that motivation, you work on it.

How do you work on achieving a desired raw paleo diet?  You must take control of your shopping.  Not your wife, not your mother, you... shopping becomes your responsibility.

[SuperInfinity]

Superinfinity,

Do you have the desire to do a raw paleo diet?  You first need that desire.  The motivation.  Once you find that motivation, you work on it.

How do you work on achieving a desired raw paleo diet?  You must take control of your shopping.  Not your wife, not your mother, you... shopping becomes your responsibility.

I know, I try to have it as policy to buy all of my own food. I like doing it in fact, it's a primitive thing.

I've been looking about sites... and the dogma around seems to be that paleo was high animal protein. They seem to be saying "higher = better" at all levels.... >_<

Since when did paleo man eat 90% animal protein??? Maybe when he was almost DEAD of starvation.... because only 3.2 million years or so paleoman was still 85%+ a herbivore/frugivore. Yeah it might have happened that paleo man evolved to eat more and more animal protein for when times were bad, but these guys are just ridiculous.
 
"ZERO CARB, 100% RAW BLOODY ANIMALS, OMG I R THE 1337 PALEO MAN U R SUX NOOB M I RITE? M I RITE?"

And these guys aren't even eating raw! You know something people who live to 100, or hell doing good in their 80s are always saying? MODERATION!!!! EVERYTHING in moderation.... except of course the processed foods which never existed in paleolithic times. Exercise in moderation, sleep deprivation in moderation, even things like supplements in moderation. It seems like one person is taking vitamin d like it's world's best thing for cancer, mood, sleep, teeth, bones and taking 100,000 units a day is optimal and the next person wouldn't touch one of them with a 40-foot pole. Meanwhile, I reckon I would have the best chances by taking a *little* of it every now and then.
 
The problem humans seem to have is they want to be so "extreme" and "hardcore" at everything, to gain attention and to set themselves something they can be "proud" of etc. Well, I have no intentions of doing that where my health is concerned.
 
You've overcome the seethrough FDA and USDA dogma about food pyramid, cereals + milk being a wonderful start to your day (lol) and all that nonsense... now you're facing another dogma... that says that even over 50% protein is good... it's not!!!

Frankly, I'm trying to get myself not to care. Economically, it would be a complete disaster for me if everyone did 95% fruit. We can't even feed the world as it is... fruit prices would skyrocket etc. Cheap, easy-to-package and long-lasting grain products are what keeps many people alive. Places like Russia are getting more and more poor countries to buy their grain... then they can get them and their governments to do what they want, it's like the people belong to them.... instead of condemning overpopulation and near-starvation, it works out great for them. 

If everyone knew the truth, the REAL truth... then prices would go up at least 20 times. People would get extremely angry at the government for letting them become fat, get acne, killing their parents. Of course most government officials can't see through it themselves... Your smiling, friendly family doctor... is a drug-peddlar! They get old and naive people to put their trust in the doctor... then they get them hooked on huge doses of morphine, blood pressure tablets that do more harm than good and make them sleep all day, etc... whatever horrible torture there is. It's always based on money, always, always, always. Any other position is economically thrown out, it's a system. The "system" is merciless, it's like a monster that is constantly evolving. Whatever about his methods, you have to acknowledge that Theodore Kaczynski had some pretty accurate ideas... 

So I'll continue here and other boards, I'll give experiences and hope to accept experiences... and of course I genuinely do hope that everything works out REALLY really well for all involved. But if I had the opportunity to tell the whole world about it right now... I absolutely wouldn't. I'll let them believe in their diets, maybe say a word or two about fruits here and there to people I consider really good and genuine. But look at what they're doing to the Orangutans and other wildlife... they're mercilessly murdering them to the brink of extinction... if the system was another way they would do that to you as well. So I will steal my fruit (I customarily pay a tiny amount at the checkout for such incredible luxury), and I will take it home and be extremely glad that so many people are so twisted that they can't see that that's what they should be eating. Maybe I will for raw meat/fish as well sometimes.
   

[goodsamaritan]

Since when did paleo man eat 90% animal protein??? Maybe when he was almost DEAD of starvation.... because only 3.2 million years or so paleoman was still 85%+ a herbivore/frugivore. Yeah it might have happened that paleo man evolved to eat more and more animal protein for when times were bad, but these guys are just ridiculous.
 
"ZERO CARB, 100% RAW BLOODY ANIMALS, OMG I R THE 1337 PALEO MAN U R SUX NOOB M I RITE? M I RITE?"

Superinfinity,

This forum is all encompassing of the definition of raw paleo diet.
I'm on raw paleo and I consume probably some 2 meals out of 3 meals a day as animal food.
Skinny Devil eats less animal food I believe.
TylerDurden eats a wide variety of fruit and a wide variety of animal food.
Raw Kyle is also a raw omnivore

There are some people who do better on an all raw animal diet like wodgina and lex.

I am not pushing you eat a 90% animal food diet.  You have to find out what works for you.

[invisible]

ban the idiotic troll

[wodgina]

The Orangutans are endangered because Superinfinities starving them to death.

[RawZi]

You can all laugh at me now...

The reason for it? Not eating enough raw fruit&veg earlier I think, especially fruit.

    That sounds like an 80/10/10rv'ist.

[PaleoPhil]

Ah well, SuperInfinity, you did so well for almost two posts then slipped back into unproductive stuff. I don't blame these emotional swings on you, I blame them on the excessive levels of domesticated fruit you've been eating. At any rate, they offer nothing new or of interest to me except as a cautionary example of the bad effects of eating too much domesticated fruit and I'm not going to waste on them.

RawZi wrote:

I'll tell you if it's a good tummy soother later, if I get to that.

Thanks, RawZi. I only need something on rare occasions, such as when I accidentally eat the wrong thing or cheat too much, so it would preferably be something I could store a long time. Your mention of herbs reminded me that I do have ginger tea, thanks. It's not truly raw, but as an occasional medicinal I think that would be OK on a RPD. I could drink that and eat raw bone marrow or suet when my stomach needs soothing.

Re: tofu, I can't stand the taste or mouth feel of straight tofu, even when mixed with other foods. I can't imagine how anyone could think it tastes good. To me soy is one of the nastiest foods on the planet. The only soy food I liked that I tried was soy ice cream, and even that was not as good as dairy ice cream or avocado ice cream or sorbet.

[SuperInfinity]

ban the idiotic troll

No u.

You were so offended because you are one of those fools who PRETENDS to follow a paleo diet but in reality eat nothing like paleo man would eat and is actually just a product of high-protein diet campaigns ala Atkins who thinks "carbs are bad".

The truth hurts don't it?

[invisible]

spam

Sorry, did not read.

[wodgina]

I think this thread is due for a locking? it's going nowhere.

[cherimoya_kid]

To SuperInfinity--

You're getting closer to a ban.

[goodsamaritan]

No u.

You were so offended because you are one of those fools who PRETENDS to follow a paleo diet but in reality eat nothing like paleo man would eat and is actually just a product of high-protein diet campaigns ala Atkins who thinks "carbs are bad".

The truth hurts don't it?

Superinfinity,

This kind of reply is so disrespectful and wrong on all levels.

First off, you do not eat a raw paleo diet of any variant, you don't eat raw meat.
2nd, you have not achieved any of the health results people have achieved on a raw paleo diet.
3rd, the practitioners of raw omnivore and raw carnivore do not practice high raw protein diets... no no no... it has to be buffered by raw fat. 

Notice how peace loving raw paleo dieters are... except you...

You are in a classic case of being on too much carb and being too paranoid... Aajonus wrote down your classic case in his book.  If you stop trying to pick a fight with everyone here, you might learn something.

Most raw paleo dieters are very much long time diet experimentors who have gone around many diets and adding raw meat was the last one most people tried and it works.  So you need to exercise humility to see you are just a spoiled little kid mouthing off with no experience to share.