Sleep, eating time and carnivorism

[carnivore]

For some people, eating their main meal at the end of day works great for them.
Others, like me, can't sleep well when their stomach is not empty (or almost).

According to Cordain, many hunter-gatherers tribes feast in the evening, and don't eat much food during the day.
Hofmekler advocates in his warrior diet one mail meal at night. (By the way, he does not look particularly healthy to me, too skinny). "There is evidence that humans are nocturnal eaters, inherently programmed for undereating and toiling during the day, followed by overeating and relaxing at night.".

On the other side, Art Devany pretends that going to bed on an empty stomach is the best way to maximize GH and testosterone production during the night. (These hormones are antagonistic to insulin).
We also know that digestive juice production declines in the late afternoon. Digestion requires lots of energy, especially on one meal a day, and sleep is supposed to be restful.
But others can say that energy during the day should not be diverted by food digestion, and that night is the best moment to properly digest food.

Some will say that our ancestors getup hungry in the morning, and eat their main meal after hunting at noon.
Some can say that our ancestors prefer to eat at night, after a full day.
The truth is that we don't know really how they did!

In clear, one can always find reasoning to justify his WOE.

We know that IF/fasting and being hungry sometime is good for health, and that starving is bad.

But I doubt that overeating is good for people with compromised digestion. I find difficult to assimilate enough food on one meal a day to sustain my daily needs.

What are your though on that ?
How do you deal on a carnivorous diet ?

[William]

On raw zc/pemmican I just don't get hungry during the day.

[PaleoPhil]

Probably the closest we could come to understanding what Stone Agers did re: eating times would be to study current and recent hunter gatherers.

My experience doesn't match that reported by most others--I find that the more I eat early in the morning, the better I tend to do, though I often don't have the time to eat much then. My current fast foods help there--jerky with tallow, pemmican, and eggs (chicken, quail, duck), though these are probably suboptimal foods. I tried eating one large nighttime meal and didn't do very well and lost too much weight.

[Ioanna]

I like to eat in the morning.  Usually after a few hours of waking, after I've done something like playing with my dog or a morning workout of some kind. For me, this is around 8am.

I like the idea of eating one meal at the end of the day, so I tried it very briefly, but I don't think it works for me.  I just think about food all day until I eat something.  I don't know if that is physiologic or psychological.  When I eat in the morning, I don't think about food at all.  I usually have another lighter meal sometime btw 4pm and 6pm.  I am not sure I need that though, or it's just an emotional outlet to the workday and habit of a few years now.  If I'm distracted or preoccupied I'm just fine without this meal... hmmmmm.

Food is so stimulating to me!!  I really always felt badly for any teacher that had me in class right after lunch, lol, because I just cannot be quiet or still after eating.  This has not changed.  When I finish eating, I desire to do something physical. So sleeping for a full night's rest within a few hours of eating is impossible for me. 

This is where I am today anyway. I'm still torn between what's 'right' and 'wrong', being open-minded about what's working for others, and yet listening to me too.

Why wouldn't Stone Agers start out the day with eating if food was available from the hunt before?  After hunting, I'd be too tired to eat at the end of the day anyway

[carnivore]

I seem to do better when my "digestive power" is at its maximum, at the end of the morning, beginning of the afternoon.

In this study, eating in the morning resets the internal clock :

http://www.wisebread.com/how-to-naturally-reset-your-sleep-cycle-overnight

[PaleoPhil]

Interesting article, thanks. If that article is correct, then I guess my "instinct" to eat in the morning is on target after all.

An evolutionary explanation might be that morning food gave hunters plentiful energy for the hunt and improved their hunting success over other hunters. Given that one of the earliest forms of Savannah hunting has been hypothesized to have been persistence hunting (aka endurance hunting), morning energy would have been crucial.

[Guittarman03]

I do have to ask (re the article), how much of that is physiological and biochemical, and how much is pyschological?  For example, I bet it would work even better if you ate eggs and bacon for that 'break-fast' meal.  Make sense? 

I never have really been a big breakfast eater.  I tend to skip it all together. 

I have learned though, that eating right before bed is not a good idea.  During sleep, your body does not 'shut down', but rather goes in to a different mode - repair.  If you eat a big meal and hit the sack, you're body now has to spend lots of energy on digestion when it should be repairing.  Also, since you're laying down, you don't have the added benefit of gravity to help along.

Probably most of you know that already, I just figured it out (like 2 days ago).  Anyways, I now am making sure to get at least 1 if not 2 hours before supper and bed.  Supper is my biggest meal.  I just don't feel as good during the day if I eat alot.  I like to work out and move on an empty or somewhat empty stomach.  Before RP, lunch used to hit me like a ton of bricks.  I could barely keep my eyes open.  Still have that a little bit, but I tend to believe it's best to catch a short nap in the early afternoon if possible. 

I would guess that things vary depending on what you're eating, and how much.  If you eat little at each sitting, I can see how you would need breakfast (and snacks during the day).  I'm sure the more proportion of calories you get from carbs, the more pronounced this becomes.

[PaleoPhil]

I do have to ask (re the article), how much of that is physiological and biochemical, and how much is pyschological?  For example, I bet it would work even better if you ate eggs and bacon for that 'break-fast' meal.  Make sense? 

If the article is correct, then some of the benefit of morning food is physiological and resets the body's clock, but I agree that some of it is likely psychological too, even if the article is correct. I don't know what you mean about eggs and bacon. I tend to eat jerky, tallow or suet and eggs in the morning. Do you eat raw bacon? These days I find bacon too salty and it makes me nauseaous and I can't be bothered to soak the salt out.

Before RP, lunch used to hit me like a ton of bricks.  I could barely keep my eyes open.  Still have that a little bit, but I tend to believe it's best to catch a short nap in the early afternoon if possible. 

I used to get very tired after lunch too. I asked a doctor what causes that, and he says it happens to everyone. Well, it no longer happened to me once I cut out most of the carbs.

I'm sure the more proportion of calories you get from carbs, the more pronounced this becomes.

Makes sense. There's the old saying that after a high carb meal (like lots of white rice from a Chinese takeout) people are hungry again an hour later.

[carnivore]

This leads me to ask these questions : on a carnivorous diet, what is hunger ? Do you feel a signal in your body when you're hungry ?

For me, there is no physiological signal. I don't know what is hunger.

All I know is that 2 or 3 hours after getting up, I think of food. If I eat enough, 2 times for now, then I don't want to eat any more until the next morning.

[Hannibal]

But I doubt that overeating is good for people with compromised digestion. I find difficult to assimilate enough food on one meal a day to sustain my daily needs.

Why are you saying that there must be an overeating when you eat one large meal at the end of the day?
I eat my meal usually during 4-5 hours, when I eat several times (sometimes 2, sometimes 3 and sometimes more), so I don't feel overindulged. But I can eat quite a lot, so the next day I can bike, for example, 100 km whithout eating anything; I will eat only in the late afternoon
During summer sometimes I do eat some fruits in the morning, but lately I found that I do better when I do not eat until late afternoon.

[carnivore]

Why are you saying that there must be an overeating when you eat one large meal at the end of the day?
I eat my meal usually during 4-5 hours, when I eat several times (sometimes 2, sometimes 3 and sometimes more), so I don't feel overindulged. But I can eat quite a lot, so the next day I can bike, for example, 100 km whithout eating anything; I will eat only in the late afternoon
During summer sometimes I do eat some fruits in the morning, but lately I found that I do better when I do not eat until late afternoon.

Several meals during 4-5 hours is not one meal a day.

[Hannibal]

Several meals during 4-5 hours is not one meal a day.

No, it isn't, if you want to be precise. But it is what IF means - you eat during several hours at the end of the day, so there could be even 10 or 20 meals; it doesn't matter

[carnivore]

No, it isn't, if you want to be precise. But it is what IF means - you eat during several hours at the end of the day, so there could be even 10 or 20 meals; it doesn't matter

I know : eating several meals during a limited window of time. I wonder how it works for the digestion to "pile" several meals. Hopefully, it is always meat and fat!

[Raw Kyle]

Hofmekler advocates in his warrior diet one mail meal at night. (By the way, he does not look particularly healthy to me, too skinny).

You sure you're thinking of the right guy? His arms are a bit small but that core is ridiculous.

[carnivore]

You sure you're thinking of the right guy? His arms are a bit small but that core is ridiculous.

He looks in good shape on this photo. (he sometimes looks emaciated on certain photos) .
Arms a bit small ? Compared to bb ?

[Raw Kyle]

I'd say his arms are small compared to most people with a core that developed. My core is smaller than his but I bet my arms are bigger. I guess some people are just built differently.