AGEs

[Wolf]

Okay so, supposedly AGEs are created when cooking foods, and those AGEs create a host of problems in our bodies.  However, when I was looking through the links of "The dangers of Cooked Foods," not a single one of them linked AGEs to cooked or heated foods except Wikipedia, which only stated that "AGEs may be formed external to the body (exogenously) by heating (e.g., cooking) sugars with fats or proteins." And as far as I know, there isn't any sugar in raw meat.  So how does that link cooking meats with producing AGEs?
Also, there weren't any other (reliable) articles or studies that showed that any toxins are created when cooking foods or meat that I could find.
Not that I'm trying to debunk any of this, but most of the people that I'm trying to convince that cooking foods (in particular meats) is dangerous and unhealthy want a lot of evidence, scientific studies, journals, and unbiased sources to back up my claims.  So far I'm having a difficult time finding any overwhelming evidence of such things.
So do you guys have any good sources, and preferably a lot of different sources, to back up the theory that cooking foods and meats creates all these toxins?  As well as which specific toxins are created?  I need stuff that isn't just heresay from one doctor or person without any references, I need multiple sources from studies and journals and references to convince these people.

[alphagruis]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070424155559.htm

I suggest to look at the following paper for instance and references therein

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/full/173/2/327

[TylerDurden]

I'll be doing a very concise essay on heat-created toxins in a few months for rawpaleodiet.com. In the meantime, just google under" advanced glycation end products study" or "heterocyclic amines study" or "polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons study" or "nitrosamines study", and the like. There are 1000s of studies on these toxins, out there. Check under pubmed as well.

As for AGEs, that was incorrect; sure AGEs are formed by combining sugars(ie carbs) with proteins and fat via cooking, but AGEs also formed via oxidation of fats via cooking - these latter type of AGEs are more usually called ALEs(advanced lipoxidation end products?).

[Wolf]

"AGEs can be absorbed through the diet.129 Foods high in protein and fat, such as meat, cheese, and egg yolk, are rich in AGEs.130 Foods high in carbohydrates have the lowest amount of AGEs."

Well that doesn't bode well for zero carbers, unless they only mean cooked meat, cheese, and egg yolks, it doesn't say if they're cooked.. though it does next say..

"In addition, increased cooking temperatures, like broiling and frying, and increased cooking times lead to increased amounts of AGEs."

but that doesn't mean that the mention of meat, cheese, and egg yolks weren't just cooked at lower temps and for less time.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/114/6/597

[Wolf]

Also finding a lot of things saying that boiling/steaming do not/prevents the development of AGEs..

[TylerDurden]

True, boiling still creates AGEs and other toxins.

It's only cooked meats that generate heat-created toxins such as AGEs. That is, unhealthy raw meats, such as from cattle fed on grains, do have some AGEs in them as a result of the unhealthy diet the animals are fed on, but raw healthy meats such as from grassfed cattle are fine.

[Wolf]

I can only find things stating that boiling can actually prevent the development of AGEs.
Do you have any sources that state that bioling still creates AGEs or other toxins?
And do you have any sources that state that AGEs are also present in grain-fed meats, but are not present in grass-fed meats?

[Sitting Coyote]

Wolf, sounds like you're amassing a decent literature review.  Would you be so kind as to post it, or somehow make it available?

[Wolf]

So far what I've got is this here..

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=47818
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/heterocyclic-amines
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16037267
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070424155559.htm
http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/full/173/2/327
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/52/9/2441.full
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/52/6/1502.full.pdf
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/3/670.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1853056/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9749578&dopt=AbstractPlus
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7035
http://www.rawfoodlife.com/Articles___Research/Toxins_Created_by_Cooking/toxins_created_by_cooking.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_v127/ai_3762054/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2208161&dopt=AbstractPlus
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/starch_and_cancer2.html
http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards2.htm
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf60163a025
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12351159
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/index/Articles/Vonderplanitz/Recipe_for_Living_Without_Disease
http://www.litalee.com/shopexd.asp?id=190
http://www.realmilk.com/rawvpasteur.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abg8l2Zs7d8

and I also usually include this video to show that the bacteria on meat is actually beneficial rather than will make you sick, and is also sometimes purposely developed and rotten in fresh air for the pro-biotic properties.. aka high-meat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIrFhfyrmS4&feature=related

[raw-al]

Wolf,
Thanks for the info. You are well advised to do the research, we will all benefit.

Just a slight caution. Once I told a teacher that I was going to tell everyone I knew about his course because of how important it was. He said something I will never forget. He said that he is not interested in teaching the deaf. He said when you have a person in the class who is talked into taking the course, the teacher ends up wasting their time trying to sell/explain something when all the rest of the students want to learn.

Now I tend to explain things to people who are interested in listening.

[Wolf]

Hm, well I have at least one internet friend who is open minded about it, but still prefers to have a lot of good sources to back up any claims.  He's actually studying to be a nutritionist, and is rather interested in my raw food eating, and is also working on his own nutrition website and such where everything will be referenced and sourced.

The others are from another forum who are mostly "normal" people probably the majority of which are on SAD diets, but there's a lot of people in that forum and I'm mostly just trying to spread the word about this diet and show people that raw meat is not something we should fear and regard as inedible and can actually be safe to eat.

Also of course, if anyone else has any links or references or sources or studies or journals to add, please post them!