loss of hunger

[rawcarni]

Hey all,
Here is a question for those who ar einto the whole biochemistry thing of ZC: I have been eating RZC for almost a year now and currently have been upping my fat intake to about 80% (from previuously about 70%). thsi is reducing my hunger. Now I run in the mornings-and the thing is this is even exacerbating the effect of feeling no hunger. Now for the last 3 or 4 days I haven't felt any hunger...I still eat one meal per day at night, but even when I eat now I don't feel any huger (when I ate less fat I sort off became hungry during eating).
My calories have been decreasing, b/c I find the fat so filling, so higher amount of calories can possibly not be the reason for being less hungry.
My question would be: what could be the reason for the loss of hunger? And why does running apparantly contribute to this, when in fact it should do the opposite b/c i am expending more energy than I would if I sat around the whole day?
Any thoughts?
Nicole

[miles]

afaik, to produce ketones for ketosis, you have to first be using gluconeogenesis, as the ketones are produced from the fatty acids which are released into the liver when the glycerol parts of the triglycerides are used to power the conversion of certain amino acids to glucose. So if you're not eating enough meat your body will slow down burning fat, as to continue at the same rate of gluconeogenesis(and ketone production) it would have to break down your body tissues.

However... afaik, adaptation to ketones does not increase the amount of fat you burn but the amount of energy you derive from it, so it follows that you would need to consume less 'calories' over-all, and thus it makes sense that you would desire less fat. In this case, your decreased appetite would be a positive sign that your body is more efficient at using ketones for energy, having to eliminate/waste less of them.

Even it is due to a lack of protein, then at the same time as you're slowing down at burning fat, you would probably also be using more of it as fuel anyway(as unused ketones are eliminated through sweat/urine).

So what it comes down to is how you feel, if you feel good then it's good.

[rawcarni]

I am feeling great! But I was worried b/c I haven't been hungry, despite eating less cals. I was wondering if I should even eat when not hungry at all? But I was too afraid about fasting for more than 24h as I still want to continue running in the mornings...

[miles]

I don't think you should eat when not hungry. If you're consuming less calories, but still having the same amount of energy, that's because you're more adapted to ketones. I think if you were to eat more meat you would produce more glucose, and more ketones at the same time, but you would just urinate the ketones which are now surplus and run more off of the glucose. Eating anything with carbs would for that time take you out of gluconeogenesis, and therefore halt ketone production, and if you were to increase fat beyond the point where you feel full then you'd probably have intestinal discomfort.

Sounds like you're good as it is.

Even aside from whether you need more food, you need to be hungry to actually digest the food properly anyway. So even if you did need more food, you should look at it, smell it and think about it until you were hungry anyway, before attempting to eat it.

As for why running may contribute:

If you're running you're going to be using more protein for repairs. This would mean that your body would have less of it available. Ketones are produced anyway when your body converts protein to glucose, so if your body has less protein available for conversion, then it will want to make use of more of the ketones, rather than eliminating them.

[rawcarni]

So did I get it right that you are suggesting that running makes my body use more ketones and hence the loss of hunger? I was thinking that maybe it had something to do with BG as Lex reported in his journal that his BG did fall after a run, but then proobably BG has nothing to do with hunger?
As for the not eating when not hungry: I will try it. That's pretty interesting though, and also exciting, because when I ate a standard mixed and later a vegan diet I became more hungry when I did run and now it is the opposite...
As for the part "it would make sense that you desire less fat" - I actually desire more fat-and hence i did increase the fat% to about 83% or so of calories. But that makes me eat less calories over all (as my portion sizes decreased and i am not feeling hungry anymore)

[miles]

You clearly didn't read what I said, I'm done here.

I'm tired from a bad night's sleep in the woods so sorry if I sound grumpy, but anyway that's not what I said.

[SteakNchop]

Another byproduct of running is increased water consumption. That very well might be keeping you from getting hungry.

[rawcarni]

Another byproduct of running is increased water consumption. That very well might be keeping you from getting hungry.

i really doubt that is the reason, as I am not drinking more than I did when I ate vegan, when running did make me hungry, whereas now it seems to have the opposite effect.

[SteakNchop]

i really doubt that is the reason, as I am not drinking more than I did when I ate vegan, when running did make me hungry, whereas now it seems to have the opposite effect.

Okay. Endorphin boasts tend to do away with hunger for me.