is Stretching Paleo/Necessary?

[the PresiDenT]

i see my dog do the same stretch and i only really stretch my core/back in morning and sometimes and its quick. i know muscles are stronger when not stretched, but my question comes to after work out routine. i hear all over stretching after is more important, but i figure the Cavemen would not stretch after intesne exercise, should i?

what are the pros/cons of stretching after working out

[kurite]

I just read an article on this but I cant find it anymore! It basically said that static stretching is actually more likely to cause injury and that in nature animals never just wake up and go for sprint. The best thing to do is a little warm up that has to do with that certain exercise. Such as if you are planning on doing weighted squats, warm up with some body squats.

[KD]

I just read an article on this but I cant find it anymore! It basically said that static stretching is actually more likely to cause injury and that in nature animals never just wake up and go for sprint. The best thing to do is a little warm up that has to do with that certain exercise. Such as if you are planning on doing weighted squats, warm up with some body squats.

yep. they encourage 'dynamic stretching' at my gym, which is basically like a mix of football warm ups and ballet. . after the workout is when you do your hamstring type stretches. foam rollers, pigeon, shoulder mobility, yoga etc...

[B.Money]

I think stretching has a lot to do with correcting our sedentary lifestyles stiffness.

[Predator]

Some good points made here.  Stretching should never be done before a workout as it stimulates the para-sympathetic nervous system to fire, causing the body to relax, thus the muscles become weaker and there is a greater chance of injury.  Stretching after a workout has been shown to help blood flow and recovery time though. 

With regards to the question if stretching is necessary, well it depends on ones overall posture and what activities one performs.  By sitting most of our days many people have tight muscles and should stretch them.  On the other hand, being to flexible has it's downsides too as we need that tension to hold our joint in place.  Gymnastics who have the muscle to keep their joints in place may not have any issues but others, say yoga fanatics, who do no strength training have and are excessively flexible do have problems.

Thus to answer your question simply, if we lived in a pale world, stretching wouldn't be necessary, but since we don't, it is recommended for most to some degree.

[HIT_it_RAW]

Working out properly using full range movements gives one all the streching you need. A properly desinged excercise machine should provide resistance throughtout a full range of possible movement. At the low point the weight is pulling your limbs to its extreme position. A cold muscle cannot be stretched because the stretch refelex protects the joint. As the exercise reaches very high levels of intensity near failure the stretch reflex helps to lift the weight involving fibers that cannot be activated through the normal neurologic pathways. Because the muscle is tired the last few reps allow for controlled stretching as the strech reflex in no longer strong enough to prevent stretching.

Exercise can provide all the flexibility one could ask for without the need of additional stretching. That is if full range movements are performed on equipment that provides resistance throughout a range of movement that is greater than the range of movement of the joint involved in the exercise. Thus providing resistance in the start/stretching ponit of the exercise.

like this:

[Predator]

Full range of motion!!!  How are guys supposed to impress the girls at the gym if they can't do heavy weights with partial range of motion   

[HIT_it_RAW]

I prefer to impress with intelligence and performance instead of showing of and faking

[Boomshaker]

Working out properly using full range movements gives one all the streching you need. A properly desinged excercise machine should provide resistance throughtout a full range of possible movement. At the low point the weight is pulling your limbs to its extreme position. A cold muscle cannot be stretched because the stretch refelex protects the joint. As the exercise reaches very high levels of intensity near failure the stretch reflex helps to lift the weight involving fibers that cannot be activated through the normal neurologic pathways. Because the muscle is tired the last few reps allow for controlled stretching as the strech reflex in no longer strong enough to prevent stretching.

Exercise can provide all the flexibility one could ask for without the need of additional stretching. That is if full range movements are performed on equipment that provides resistance throughout a range of movement that is greater than the range of movement of the joint involved in the exercise. Thus providing resistance in the start/stretching ponit of the exercise.

like this:

I think it's unnecesary to use excersize machines. Maybe only for rehabilitation. They dont alow natural joint move patterns. Stabilizing muscles dont work. You can easily overtrain some muscles so your body becomes disproportionate. Neurological pathways are messed up. I've seen some bodybuilders who can't do a proper snatch or c&j finishing positions becouse they can't extend their shoulders and elbows. So in my opinion excersize machines are inferior to free weights and body weight training.

[HIT_it_RAW]

I think it's unnecesary to use excersize machines . Maybe only for rehabilitation. They dont alow natural joint move patterns. Stabilizing muscles don't work. You can easily overtrain some muscles so your body becomes disproportionate. Neurological pathways are messed up. I've seen some bodybuilders who can't do a proper snatch or c&j finishing positions becouse they can't extend their shoulders and elbows. So in my opinion excersize machines are inferior to free weights and body weight training.

Those arguments were first made 60 or so years ago by the ignorant mainstream trying to discredit the value of exercise machines and they are as untrue today as they were then. There are no stabilizing muscles the same muscles that lift the weight also stabilise it. In the bench press for example the pectorals, deltoids, triceps and to some extend latimus dorsi both lift and balance the weight. If the weight is moving to much towards the feet than the deltoid contract harder than the pectorals pulling the weight back in line. If it moves towards the head to much the pectorals contract harder. If the deltoid are exhausted than the exercise has to be terminated because the balance is lost. At that point however the pectorals are not yet tired. On an exercise machine the pectorals could have continued the exercise further therefore the intensity of the exercise would be higher.

The human muscular structure is incredibly interwoven. It is not possible to fully isolate one muscle other muscles are always assisting in the movement. Therefore movements performed on exercise machines are as much a compound natural movement as barbell movement are (or any other type of movements). In fact an exercise machine can provide resistance in any desired direction using any desired rotation point. One can design exercise machines to follow the body's movements way more closely than a barbell can because a barbell can only provide resistance in one direction. An exercise machine can offer full range varying resistance tailored to the largest muscles involved in the exercise. This is another reason why training on a properly designed exercise machine is more intense than training with free weights. Because of the higher intensity overtraining happens faster. If one however allows enough time for complete recovery the results will also be much greater due to the greater intensity.

Neurological pathways are messed up by (growth)drugs and severe overtraining. This has nothing to do with the kind of exercise that is done (machines vs free weights).

It is off course easily possible to build a very unbalanced body with bot machines and free weights. Used intelligently (as they are not most often) properly designed exercise machine are very productive tools.

[Predator]

I have to agree with Boomshaker.  While it is true that when using machines all the muscles in the muscles group being worked will fire, the neurons going to those muscles won't adapt to stabilizing that joint as quickly as if one was training without machines.  Also one uses so many more muscles groups when doing free weights or body weight exercises then you would with machines.  Just try doing a one handed and one foot pushup and compare it to a chest press machine.  In the prior one you use your whole body to stabilize your position while working chest, while in the later all you use is your chest muscles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3oJSFYNRv0&NR=1

[HIT_it_RAW]

I have to agree with Boomshaker.  While it is true that when using machines all the muscles in the muscles group being worked will fire, the neurons going to those muscles won't adapt to stabilizing that joint as quickly as if one was training without machines.  Also one uses so many more muscles groups when doing free weights or body weight exercises then you would with machines.  Just try doing a one handed and one foot pushup and compare it to a chest press machine.  In the prior one you use your whole body to stabilize your position while working chest, while in the later all you use is your chest muscles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3oJSFYNRv0&NR=1

Yes you do use the entire body to balance while training the chest. See the ineffeciency? Your are trying to work the chest and in the progres tire the entire body. The only muscles receiving hard enough work to grow are the triceps and pecs. The other muscle do some work but nowhere near intense enough to stimulate physiological changes. You tire the rest of your body without any rewards. When i train my chest i like to not tire the rest om my body. If i tire them i will only do so for good results. If i tire my leggs its gonna be with squats, leg presses, leg extensions etc. Make no mistake in one workout I train my entire body. I would never train parts of it only. But I only train body parts with exercise that are gonna produce growth.

If I wanted to be good in doing those one armed pushups than I would have to do those to learn my body the skill to do them. If I just want to get strong chest muscles I stick with a chestpress.

[papangue]

I agree with boomshaker and found this very very interesting video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gKwYpZusa0

[wodgina]

I agree with boomshaker and found this very very interesting video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gKwYpZusa0

I'm never happier than if I've been excercising in the sun all day, surfing, running, kayaking on the ocean.

It's winter here and working all day and getting home in the dark just doesn't do it for me!

I like Movnats barefoot running videos.

[HIT_it_RAW]

I could keep trying to explain my point better but is most probably a futile attempt. For anyone interested in the subject I very much encourage reading the following article by arthur jones
http://www.arthurjonesexercise.com/Athletic/Specificity.PDF
Please give it a honest read. Don't turn away if the first few lines do not appeal to you.