Dairy free Primal Diet?

[raw-al]

I suspect goat is lighter and I would like to try it if I can find it.

[MaximilianKohler]

I suspect goat is lighter and I would like to try it if I can find it.

I found it at a local farmer's market

[kurite]

I do better with goat dairy than cows. Any insight on that?
 But never consumed raw diary for extended periods of time (I probably never will either).

http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=38646

[TylerDurden]

Minor observation:-  rawpaleoforum would never have gotten off the ground if there weren't a huge number of bad experiences with raw dairy in the RVAF diet community. Instead, this would have been a Primal Diet-forum.

I can see why many people are tempted by raw dairy, even those who do badly on it. Raw dairy is an easy source of raw fat, whereas raw fat is often cut off  from meats well before being put on sale. Plus, raw dairy is highly addictive due to the opioids in it, and it's far more socially acceptable to drink raw milk than to eat raw meats. I happily concede that there is a minority  of people who do fine on raw dairy. Since they are only a minority, though, it's only reasonable to warn everyone against raw dairy in advance, rather than the AV-inspired approach which is to claim that most people do well on raw dairy and that even those who do badly on raw dairy will eventually get used to it with the help of a few little tricks.

My past experiences on other RVAF diet forums were dismal. Aside from the nonsense claims by pro-raw-dairy activists such as claiming that adding raw honey to raw milk eased off allergies and the like, I also encountered horrible tales by long-term Primal Dieters who were so enthused with the myth of detox that they would go in for weeks-long raw-dairy-feasts in which their descriptions of so-called "detox", which needless to say always occurred in tandem with dairy-consumption, were clearly signs of allergy. Of course, raw dairy isn't the only problem on the Primal Diet, there's the frequent health-complaints re veggie-juice, the excessive amounts of raw foods that AV recommended in his books. It's a pity, as much of what AV says as regards other meatters re bacteria, high-meats etc. is right on the button.

[MaximilianKohler]

what are some of the complaints re veggie juice?

[TylerDurden]

what are some of the complaints re veggie juice?

A number of long-term Primal Dieters complained of getting nutritional deficiencies if they consumed lots of raw veggie-juice in the long-term. The explanation given for such was that juicing raw veg not only makes the nutrients in them more bioavailable to humans due to shredding of the cell-walls but it also makes the antinutrients in the veg more bioavailable as well, thus leading to nutritional deficiencies.

That said, issues with raw veggie-juice are, admittedly, much less than with raw dairy. The people who complained were generally those who consumed more than a glass of raw veggie-juice a day, on average. Most seem to do fine with occasional veggie-juice. I'm an exception as if I drink the stuff, it just goes out the other end, virtually unabsorbed, soon afterwards, though I had no other negative issues with the stuff.

[RawZi]

Aside from the nonsense claims by pro-raw-dairy activists such as claiming that adding raw honey to raw milk eased off allergies and the like, I also encountered horrible tales by long-term Primal Dieters who were so enthused with the myth of detox that they would go in for weeks-long raw-dairy-feasts in which their descriptions of so-called "detox", which needless to say always occurred in tandem with dairy-consumption, were clearly signs of allergy.

    I've heard of The Milk Cure Diet like they did at the Mayo Clinic in MN.  I don't think aajonus ever approved of a milk cure diet for anyone.  What dairy feasts do you mean?  Do you mean having a raw milk shake once or twice per day in addition to various snacks of many food groups every four to five hours around the clock and perhaps a tiny cube of cheese in some situations before each thing by mouth?

    For me so far, cooking, heating, searing, pasteurizing, frying, smoking, dehydrating, freezing and marinating are what changes things physically to allergens.  As long as I stay away from all those, I don't seem to get allergic reactions.

    I don't like the idea of drinking milk as a baby from other than my Mother.  There's an age and a place for everything.  I love the taste of raw cow dairy cream though.  It's not easy to get, so I usually go without that.  

[TylerDurden]

Well, a number of PDers would consume half or more of their daily intake in the form of raw dairy, during those feasts/detoxes. All because they believed in AV's notion that raw dairy was some magical form of detoxing raw food. Utter rubbish.

If you're absolutely fine on raw dairy, then, naturally you have advantage re increased availability of food/fat in general. Although I love the taste, that's not an option for me.

[shannon]

what types of problems are u getting from raw dairy

i know this was for someone else, but what the hey.  raw dairy causes the typical mucus so badly that i develop a cough not unlike asthma.  my knees hurt so badly (i never have any pain) i get fatigued, irritable and my face breaks out almost instantly.  my hormones end up all out of whack.  so not worth it. when i give it up, withdrawal sets in for at least a week of crying spells, inflammation, lethargy etc. i was so excited to hear that raw dairy was different from the conventional pasteurized crap.  not for me it's not.  the addiction i feel towards it is definitely a sign to stay away!

[raw-al]

Shannon,

Out of curiosity were you breast fed as an infant?

[shannon]

no i was not breast fed, why do you ask?

[raw-al]

Just curious. Was wondering if there is some kind of correlation between those who were/were not and later reactions to dairy products.
I was and I do OK with raw dairy. Did terrible on pasteurized.

[shannon]

Just curious. Was wondering if there is some kind of correlation between those who were/were not and later reactions to dairy products.
I was and I do OK with raw dairy. Did terrible on pasteurized.

that is interesting.  maybe you should look into that some more, i'd be curious to find out. 

[raw-al]

It just occurred to me actually. Would be interesting to check out though. Maybe some kind of unofficial poll on this site might be in order.

[TylerDurden]

By all means make a poll. I should add that I was breastfed for 7.5 months and subsequently fed on buffalo milk(which I think was raw as it came straight from Nepalese villagers/farmers or some such, not supermarkets). And I rate something like 8 or 9 out of 10 as regards dairy-allergies(10 points would be for those with galactosemia who get brain-damage and even  die if they consume any sizeable amounts of  dairy, however raw).

[RawZi]

    My parents weren't breast-fed, and they couldn't stand dairy, thank goodness!  So I didn't have to drink the pasteurized stuff at home.  I was breast-fed 2 years and raw milk does good for me.  Pasteurized stuffs my ears and makes my skin itch and my bo go off.  My son whom I've written about reacted very bad to commercial dairy, probably 9.9 of ten.  He can't touch the stuff.  Raw dairy is saving his life.  He was breast-fed two years.

    I've thought of that too, raw-al.  It seems breast fed people do better with the raw stuff.  Some might say we retain lactase production longer due to our histories.  Maybe there's something missing in the story telling.  It would be good if we could test scientifically with control groups.   

[raw-al]

I realize that there are issues and all women may not be able to breast feed. My GF wasn't able (long story) but she overcame the difficulty with her own intuition and knowledge. It is such a head start for children both from immune system kick start and bonding.
A number of years ago I was having a resume typed up by a friend of a friend who did free lance typing. This was before there was a computer in every home The girl who was doing it for me was also doing some typing for an endocrinologist who was doing some research on breast feeding and was nominated for the Nobel prize for his work. It made me very conscious of this.

Both of our girls were breast fed. Not sure how long but I suspect 2 to 2.5 years. They like the rest of the world drank plenty of pasteurized milk.

As a youngster there was not a lot of cash in the house after dad died so we had dried skim milk. That wretched stuff was sickening to me. (ungrateful me) When I left the house I swore I would only drink the milk with the max fat in it, which I did and after probably 10 15 years of that I started having some pretty serious reactions. I have told the story somewhere on here before but I found raw eventually and that does the trick.

TD,
I heard that buffalo milk is extremely thick and full of fat.
Some guy in California is raising camels for milk.

[RawZi]

... she overcame the difficulty with her own intuition and knowledge. ...

    I'm curious what she did.

... The girl who was doing it for me was also doing some typing for an endocrinologist who was doing some research on breast feeding and was nominated for the Nobel prize for his work. ...

    I would love to know his name and see his work.  I am interested in endocrinology.

Both of our girls were breast fed. Not sure how long but I suspect 2 to 2.5 years. They like the rest of the world drank plenty of pasteurized milk.

    Not many East Asian countries nor many Eastern European countries nor African.  People I've met from those countries, especially the European and African, many drank raw milk, goat, cow, other bovine, camel, etc.

As a youngster there was not a lot of cash in the house after dad died so we had dried skim milk. That wretched stuff was sickening to me.

    We went through a time when I was a child where practically all we had to drink in the house was powdered skim.  It smelled so bad, I just let myself dehydrate rather than drink that.

I heard that buffalo milk is extremely thick and full of fat.
Some guy in California is raising camels for milk.

    Do you know of a list somewhere listing milks that are higher in fat naturally as per ratio to carb and protein than other milks?

[raw-al]

    I'm curious what she did.

    I would love to know his name and see his work.  I am interested in endocrinology.

    Not many East Asian countries nor many Eastern European countries nor African.  People I've met from those countries, especially the European and African, many drank raw milk, goat, cow, other bovine, camel, etc.

    We went through a time when I was a child where practically all we had to drink in the house was powdered skim.  It smelled so bad, I just let myself dehydrate rather than drink that.

    Do you know of a list somewhere listing milks that are higher in fat naturally as per ratio to carb and protein than other milks?

She read a book on feeding brain food to your child. Who's to say if it worked but he graduated from Yale in Psychiatry and from Harvard, top of the class in child and adolescent Psy.

The doctor's name is Chandra. He worked in St. John's Newfoundland when I knew him.

Regarding milk here is two pages from the best book in Ayurveda written 2000 years ago. Bear in mind that this was written in Sanskrit and then translated here by people in India whose English is not the same as ours, so when you read it pretend you are Ghandi and read it with the accent so it make more sense.
I am trying to upload the scanned pages but they are 1.9 and 2.0 MB. Have to figure it out. Might take a bit of time.

[raw-al]

Here is the first page on milk: Also a link to an article on ojas by me http://www.scribd.com/doc/2515703/Ojas

[raw-al]

Here is page 214;

[bharminder]

Interesting. I was not breast fed and I believe I've always had allergic like symptoms to dairy including lethargy, allergies, and lots of acne. When I cut the dairy, the acne went away. That was all pasteurized stuff I was talking about though. .. . I can't say for sure what long term symptoms I get with raw dairy because I've never drank it for long periods....but some of the similar symptoms I had with pasteurized are there, just not as intense or severe.

[Waldpfad]

" k2? Isn't that in meat?

It's concentrated in glands, sweetbreads, salivary glands are high in K2.